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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:42:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Eventually Ravenwood will show up to try and take part of my fuel, food, and livestock for the government of the Allied States of America.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:47:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put simply, the entire exercise is a guess. Every country has their own nuclear game theory. Within each country's theory, there's no free lunch. If you target population centers, you don't get guaranteed kills on other nukes. If you target nukes, you don't take out the economy that can produce the nukes. If you try to get both you use all your nukes, and then you can get nuked. Simply put Gotcha. They can use a lot of nukes to target ICBM sites, but it only makes sense for Russia to do that in a first strike. Otherwise, their weapons are most likely wasted on empty silos. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:50:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What stops someone from just staying in the core center of their house with the doors and windows closed in one of the areas that’s hot. Assuming the house isn’t destroyed or the windows all blown out. If you’re home and can buckle down you’ll have some free time. Tape off any concerning gaps around doors quickly. Turn off the water lines after sealing the drains and filling the tub as much as you can before water pressure is gone. Hold out for a couple weeks will be hard but doable as long as you have water and food. Assuming you’re the typical arfcommer that’s 6’3" 9" and making half mill a year you should have the food and water preps covered. After the two weeks are up. The mob of radiated and poisoned zombies might be hard to quell… at first. Wait. Did I just type out the Arfcom fantasy ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But you can't trust them Ruskis not to do ... https://y.yarn.co/8cd53197-8fe8-4c33-ade1-3026f355caf3_text.gif https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Fallout_map_USA_%28FEMA%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/US_nuclear_strike_map.svg/2560px-US_nuclear_strike_map.svg.png Anybody to the east (prevailing winds) of US ICBM fields (ground bursts are very 'dirty' / radioactive) might have a hot time of it in World War III https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Fallout_Map_3-23-1963-Saturday-Evening-Post.jpg How many people here could seriously ride out "two weeks" with their family in a facility with air filtration for radiation protection? What stops someone from just staying in the core center of their house with the doors and windows closed in one of the areas that’s hot. Assuming the house isn’t destroyed or the windows all blown out. If you’re home and can buckle down you’ll have some free time. Tape off any concerning gaps around doors quickly. Turn off the water lines after sealing the drains and filling the tub as much as you can before water pressure is gone. Hold out for a couple weeks will be hard but doable as long as you have water and food. Assuming you’re the typical arfcommer that’s 6’3" 9" and making half mill a year you should have the food and water preps covered. After the two weeks are up. The mob of radiated and poisoned zombies might be hard to quell… at first. Wait. Did I just type out the Arfcom fantasy ?  Survival Under Atomic Attack 1951 NUCLEAR BOMB SHELTER FILM 29180 HD  How to Protect Yourself from Nuclear Fallout and Survive an Atomic Attack - 1950s Educational Film |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:50:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What stops someone from just staying in the core center of their house with the doors and windows closed in one of the areas that’s hot. Assuming the house isn’t destroyed or the windows all blown out. If you’re home and can buckle down you’ll have some free time. Tape off any concerning gaps around doors quickly. Turn off the water lines after sealing the drains and filling the tub as much as you can before water pressure is gone. Hold out for a couple weeks will be hard but doable as long as you have water and food. Assuming you’re the typical arfcommer that’s 6’3" 9" and making half mill a year you should have the food and water preps covered. After the two weeks are up. The mob of radiated and poisoned zombies might be hard to quell… at first. Wait. Did I just type out the Arfcom fantasy ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But you can't trust them Ruskis not to do ... https://y.yarn.co/8cd53197-8fe8-4c33-ade1-3026f355caf3_text.gif https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Fallout_map_USA_%28FEMA%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/US_nuclear_strike_map.svg/2560px-US_nuclear_strike_map.svg.png Anybody to the east (prevailing winds) of US ICBM fields (ground bursts are very 'dirty' / radioactive) might have a hot time of it in World War III https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Fallout_Map_3-23-1963-Saturday-Evening-Post.jpg How many people here could seriously ride out "two weeks" with their family in a facility with air filtration for radiation protection? What stops someone from just staying in the core center of their house with the doors and windows closed in one of the areas that’s hot. Assuming the house isn’t destroyed or the windows all blown out. If you’re home and can buckle down you’ll have some free time. Tape off any concerning gaps around doors quickly. Turn off the water lines after sealing the drains and filling the tub as much as you can before water pressure is gone. Hold out for a couple weeks will be hard but doable as long as you have water and food. Assuming you’re the typical arfcommer that’s 6’3" 9" and making half mill a year you should have the food and water preps covered. After the two weeks are up. The mob of radiated and poisoned zombies might be hard to quell… at first. Wait. Did I just type out the Arfcom fantasy ? It used to be. Well, less a fantasy, then just an expected given. That all changed 5 years ago. Arfcoms current fantasy is to Pre-Surrender to whatever Godless Commies and Fascists we can find. Surrender and beg for mercy. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:53:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put simply, the entire exercise is a guess. Every country has their own nuclear game theory. Within each country's theory, there's no free lunch. If you target population centers, you don't get guaranteed kills on other nukes. If you target nukes, you don't take out the economy that can produce the nukes. If you try to get both you use all your nukes, and then you can get nuked. Simply put Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Exercise for the student. Starting assumptions are: - Per the Moscow Treaty of 2006 and the New START treaty of 2010, there are only 1500-2200 operationally deployed strategic nuclear weapons available to either the US or Russia. ODSNWs are defined as a weapon: - Mated to an ICBM - Mated to an SLBM - Stored in an igloo at a bomber base. This number is fairly accurate, as A) those kinds of weapons require specialized weapons systems to carry them, and B) numerous remote and on-site verification methods are in place to ensure compliance. Let's use 2200 weapons available as a starting point, the maximum allowed under those two treaties. - Assume all weapons are 1Mt in size. Sooo.....Go to this website. I prefer this site to many others (cough anything by Greenpeace cough cough), because this guy actually based his calculator off the works of Glasstone, the premiere nuclear effects scientist of any age, instead of "OMG THE BLAST RADIUS IS LIKE THE .45 ACP OF NUKES AND WILL DESTROY NIGERIA IF SET OFF IN HAWAII!!!" Calculate the effects radii for a 1Mt weapon. Using the thermal radiation radius (farthest-reaching effect), calculate the square mileage (multiply the km2 by .62 to get mi2) affected by said 1Mt weapon (don't forget, pi are squared ("No they're not, they're round!")). Multiply by 2200 (# of weapons available). You now have the total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon. Question #1: compare total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon to the total square mileage of the United States. (Wikipedia says that # is 3,796,742 square miles). Inaccuracies: - We don't use very many 1Mt weapons any more. Improvements in accuracy means they are significantly smaller than that. So the actual are affected is reduced by a significant percentage. - Remember, this is the UPPER limit of available weapons. - This assumes all yeilds are evenly spread across the country. However, the probability of kill (the chances the weapon will actually destroy the target) is never 1.0, so for targets that absolutely, positively need to die, you may decide to go 2:1 or even 3:1. So, more math. Assume the following priority targets: - 450 MMIII launch facilities - 45 MMIII launch control centers - 3 Minuteman support bases - 2 B52 bases - 1 B2 base - 2 sub bases - Let's say 20 nuclear command and control facilities of various flavors. (For the moment we'll ignore other priority military targets like the Pentagon, etc.) Calculate the number of weapons used for 3:1 targeting on the Minuteman sites + 2:1 targeting on the soft targets and 3:1 on the C2 facilities. That's the ACTUAL number of designated ground zeros, so multiply your square miles affected from one weapon by this number to get the actual square mileage affected. Question #2: compare square mileage affected by actual # of DGZs as a percentage to the total square mileage of the United States. NOTE: Most of these impacts will be in the three missile fields in the Midwest/West, and several targets on both coasts, with a few odds and ends sprinkled here and there (Omaha, Cheyenne Mountain, etc.) Question #3: Given the locations of most of those DGZs, and their LACK of proximity to most of the major economic, manufacturing, and transportation hubs of the US, (or, for that matter, most of the houses of the doomers in this thread) describe the effects that taking out these targets will have on: A) the overall economic system of the United States B) The ability to conduct an economic transaction in, say, Ohio (or Arizona, or Florida, or Topeka) C) The ability to provide water, power, sewer, and trash service in any of the places listed in B) above. I'll wait.  ETA: Want to know the really sad part? This comes up often enough that I just cut and paste this into the thread.  So, your whole assumption is that the major population centers will not be targeted. 2,200 devices but there won’t be any left for, say, the 50 largest urban areas in the United States. Yeah, I wouldn’t count on that. Put simply, the entire exercise is a guess. Every country has their own nuclear game theory. Within each country's theory, there's no free lunch. If you target population centers, you don't get guaranteed kills on other nukes. If you target nukes, you don't take out the economy that can produce the nukes. If you try to get both you use all your nukes, and then you can get nuked. Simply put It would be rational to expect Russia to target the cities. They don’t care that much about retaliation, and they know it would hurt us, more than them. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:55:19 PM EDT
[#6]
 End of the World |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:55:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Yea I guess probably.
And you'll have a hell of a lot more to worry about than property tax. 
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:55:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Basically yes. Debts get annulled when countries go to war, and for the allied ones, you’ve got everything from foreign aid to lend-lease.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:56:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never count out the IRS. They will be the last surviving entity on earth. And they are well armed |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:09:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Gotcha. They can use a lot of nukes to target ICBM sites, but it only makes sense for Russia to do that in a first strike. Otherwise, their weapons are most likely wasted on empty silos. Quoted: It would be rational to expect Russia to target the cities. They don’t care that much about retaliation, and they know it would hurt us, more than them. It's all a guess. Russia going to asymmetrical nukes tells us they're not confident their threat is credible. Again, we've had nuclear weapons for decades. It isn't that everyone is a good actor, I believe it to be more a game that no one wants to play. Not because the world ends, but rather because the power structure ends. Government everywhere, since time immortal, wishes to cling to power. Normies view the false narrative of the fact "us vs them" but that's not really true. The reality is "I want my rule, and if there's an opportunity I'll take your rule and influence" Government in every country does not represent the interests of people living there. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:11:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Let's say you survive a full scale nuclear war. You come out of your basement a couple of weeks later to have a look around. You're obviously not going into work anymore. That mortgage company and auto lender probably won't be mailing you a past due letter. Do the government and private lenders still hold any claim on your land and property at that point? Would there be any record of who owns/owes what, and would the existing repayment system as it was ever be restored? In other words, would all debts be erased? Why do these threads start? I suppose science fiction is a thing. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:19:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:27:37 PM EDT
[#13]
according to my automobile policy....they will not cover damage from nuclear bombs......I am disappointed
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:33:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ty for truth bomb Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Exercise for the student. Starting assumptions are: - Per the Moscow Treaty of 2006 and the New START treaty of 2010, there are only 1500-2200 operationally deployed strategic nuclear weapons available to either the US or Russia. ODSNWs are defined as a weapon: - Mated to an ICBM - Mated to an SLBM - Stored in an igloo at a bomber base. This number is fairly accurate, as A) those kinds of weapons require specialized weapons systems to carry them, and B) numerous remote and on-site verification methods are in place to ensure compliance. Let's use 2200 weapons available as a starting point, the maximum allowed under those two treaties. - Assume all weapons are 1Mt in size. Sooo.....Go to this website. I prefer this site to many others (cough anything by Greenpeace cough cough), because this guy actually based his calculator off the works of Glasstone, the premiere nuclear effects scientist of any age, instead of "OMG THE BLAST RADIUS IS LIKE THE .45 ACP OF NUKES AND WILL DESTROY NIGERIA IF SET OFF IN HAWAII!!!" Calculate the effects radii for a 1Mt weapon. Using the thermal radiation radius (farthest-reaching effect), calculate the square mileage (multiply the km2 by .62 to get mi2) affected by said 1Mt weapon (don't forget, pi are squared ("No they're not, they're round!")). Multiply by 2200 (# of weapons available). You now have the total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon. Question #1: compare total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon to the total square mileage of the United States. (Wikipedia says that # is 3,796,742 square miles). Inaccuracies: - We don't use very many 1Mt weapons any more. Improvements in accuracy means they are significantly smaller than that. So the actual are affected is reduced by a significant percentage. - Remember, this is the UPPER limit of available weapons. - This assumes all yeilds are evenly spread across the country. However, the probability of kill (the chances the weapon will actually destroy the target) is never 1.0, so for targets that absolutely, positively need to die, you may decide to go 2:1 or even 3:1. So, more math. Assume the following priority targets: - 450 MMIII launch facilities - 45 MMIII launch control centers - 3 Minuteman support bases - 2 B52 bases - 1 B2 base - 2 sub bases - Let's say 20 nuclear command and control facilities of various flavors. (For the moment we'll ignore other priority military targets like the Pentagon, etc.) Calculate the number of weapons used for 3:1 targeting on the Minuteman sites + 2:1 targeting on the soft targets and 3:1 on the C2 facilities. That's the ACTUAL number of designated ground zeros, so multiply your square miles affected from one weapon by this number to get the actual square mileage affected. Question #2: compare square mileage affected by actual # of DGZs as a percentage to the total square mileage of the United States. NOTE: Most of these impacts will be in the three missile fields in the Midwest/West, and several targets on both coasts, with a few odds and ends sprinkled here and there (Omaha, Cheyenne Mountain, etc.) Question #3: Given the locations of most of those DGZs, and their LACK of proximity to most of the major economic, manufacturing, and transportation hubs of the US, (or, for that matter, most of the houses of the doomers in this thread) describe the effects that taking out these targets will have on: A) the overall economic system of the United States B) The ability to conduct an economic transaction in, say, Ohio (or Arizona, or Florida, or Topeka) C) The ability to provide water, power, sewer, and trash service in any of the places listed in B) above. I'll wait. ETA: Want to know the really sad part? This comes up often enough that I just cut and paste this into the thread. Ty for truth bomb
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:33:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you even explain what air filtration for radiation protection means? Cause "filtration" isnt one of the survival tactics against fallout. Can you name them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But you can't trust them Ruskis not to do ... https://y.yarn.co/8cd53197-8fe8-4c33-ade1-3026f355caf3_text.gif https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Fallout_map_USA_%28FEMA%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/US_nuclear_strike_map.svg/2560px-US_nuclear_strike_map.svg.png Anybody to the east (prevailing winds) of US ICBM fields (ground bursts are very 'dirty' / radioactive) might have a hot time of it in World War III https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Fallout_Map_3-23-1963-Saturday-Evening-Post.jpg How many people here could seriously ride out "two weeks" with their family in a facility with air filtration for radiation protection? Can you even explain what air filtration for radiation protection means? Cause "filtration" isnt one of the survival tactics against fallout. Can you name them? Really? Can't imagine then why it is standard practice for nuclear fallout shelters & protective structures to ALL include air filtration units to filter out radioactive dust & contaminates from air drawn from the exterior - since those radioactive particles, inhaled into the lungs would do far more damage to critical tissues from inside the body than even similar particles sitting on the exterior skin. No one should want Radioactive Particles flitting around inside their shelter when they could be contained (filtered) before being introduced into the interior atmosphere. Cheyenne Mountain (AKA NORAD) Complex, Raven Rock, Mount Weather, The Greenbriar & all those ICBM Launch Control Complexes? ALL of them have air filtration systems on their intakes for "Air Filtration for Radiation Protection". Because circulating radioactive particles in your breathing air until you or others inhale them - is not "a good thing". |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:39:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When one bird flies, they all fly. You're talking 14k war heads on each side between the US and Russia alone. We’re all dead. And by all, I mean the entire planet. It’s a reset alright. lol lolno |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:49:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha. They can use a lot of nukes to target ICBM sites, but it only makes sense for Russia to do that in a first strike. Otherwise, their weapons are most likely wasted on empty silos. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Put simply, the entire exercise is a guess. Every country has their own nuclear game theory. Within each country's theory, there's no free lunch. If you target population centers, you don't get guaranteed kills on other nukes. If you target nukes, you don't take out the economy that can produce the nukes. If you try to get both you use all your nukes, and then you can get nuked. Simply put Gotcha. They can use a lot of nukes to target ICBM sites, but it only makes sense for Russia to do that in a first strike. Otherwise, their weapons are most likely wasted on empty silos. Even if they launch a massive first strike attack, those missiles will still detonate on empty silos if they get to the silos. Their only smart move is not to play, but if they do play, they probably target cities and infrastructure |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:52:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What stops someone from just staying in the core center of their house with the doors and windows closed in one of the areas that’s hot. Assuming the house isn’t destroyed or the windows all blown out. If you’re home and can buckle down you’ll have some free time. Tape off any concerning gaps around doors quickly. Turn off the water lines after sealing the drains and filling the tub as much as you can before water pressure is gone. Hold out for a couple weeks will be hard but doable as long as you have water and food. Assuming you’re the typical arfcommer that’s 6’3" 9" and making half mill a year you should have the food and water preps covered. After the two weeks are up. The mob of radiated and poisoned zombies might be hard to quell… at first. Wait. Did I just type out the Arfcom fantasy ? Well, nothing "stops" them. It just may not be a very good idea is all. If the area is hot (highly radioactive) then the old phrase "density is defense" comes into play. In other words you are much better protected by heavy high density materials (dirt, soil, stone, concrete) than you are by the "light" materials of a typical nearly hollow house with siding, light fiberglass insulation, hollow core doors & plenty of windows. While "distance" will give protection, typically Density protects better because https://orau.org/health-physics-museum/files/library/civil-defense/tb-5-3-family-shelters-for-protection-against-rad-fallout.pdf Being under 6 feet of dirt cover (tornado shelter, fallout shelter, basement) is pretty amazing for protection - even against gamma radiation.  There was a reason that the deep basements of buildings were often designated & equipped as fallout shelters (back in the 50's & 60's)  Notice how either all the way deep, or about midway up in the middle (centered) rooms away from the exterior on multi-story buildings provides the best protection. Fallout typically lands on the roof (radiated down) or soil (radiates sideways) so being several floors up off the ground provides some 'distance' for protection from radiation - but not all of us ARFCOM millionaire members have a ten story home You asked about efforts to make an existing home "air tight" on the quick and inexpensive. Consider that WWII submarine crews could only stay sealed for about 24-36 hours. Imagine if they were sealed in for a week or two?  Trying what you suggested is better than nothing, but seems like how you end up with "Ghouls" in the Fallout universe. 
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Posted: 3/31/2024 10:57:06 PM EDT
[#19]
There is a fine line between "normalcy" and Mad Max, if there was a nuclear exchange it would be a massive reset across the world, even if you manage to survive the initial nuclear blasts you still would have to deal with the aftereffects for months, years, decades later.
Go on line and look at both a ship and plane tracker app, then add in rail traffic and vehicle traffic. All that grinds to a halt after a nuclear exchange. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:00:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you even explain what air filtration for radiation protection means? Cause "filtration" isnt one of the survival tactics against fallout. Can you name them? In his riding it out series Dean ing described several DIY air filtration systems and that was before HEPA filters were widely available. You can be in the best fallout bunker in the world and if you are sucking radioactive particles in with fresh air, you are fucked. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:01:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never count out the IRS. They will be the last surviving entity on earth. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:22:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Hoping for a full scale nuclear war is a shitty financial plan. Even worse than a civil war. I would rather work 30 years, save and pay off my mortgage. But then again, this is GD.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:23:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, like Russia has more than 3 working nukes This is kinda where I'm at. I wonder how many actually work? The corruption there runs deep and it takes a pile of money to maintain that enterprise. I don't doubt some work. I question if even most of them would work though. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:30:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is kinda where I'm at. I wonder how many actually work? The corruption there runs deep and it takes a pile of money to maintain that enterprise. I don't doubt some work. I question if even most of them would work though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol, like Russia has more than 3 working nukes This is kinda where I'm at. I wonder how many actually work? The corruption there runs deep and it takes a pile of money to maintain that enterprise. I don't doubt some work. I question if even most of them would work though. I'd be wondering how much of the Fissile materials someone sold on the side to the Pakistan, Indians, North Koreans, Iranians, Saudis and anybody else with Big Swiss numbered accounts & a maze of offshore subsidiaries & shell corporations. The warhead itself (assuming it still has any core) seems pretty simple 40's -50's technology, but the SLBM & ICBM seems the item most likely to suffer badly from storage & lack of service & maintenance by don't give a flip because I haven't been paid Russians. Bigger_Hammer  |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:31:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Let's say you survive a full scale nuclear war. You come out of your basement a couple of weeks later to have a look around. You're obviously not going into work anymore. That mortgage company and auto lender probably won't be mailing you a past due letter. Do the government and private lenders still hold any claim on your land and property at that point? Would there be any record of who owns/owes what, and would the existing repayment system as it was ever be restored? In other words, would all debts be erased? Debts probably won't be erased, due to off-site data backup. But I'm sure given the current situation, you'll be given a grace period to repay the loan. I think loan payments would be the least of the concerns. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:41:22 PM EDT
[#26]
imagine getting a Glock switch and there's no government to tell you not to
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:43:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @dbrad197 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoatmospheric_Kill_Vehicle This is the OPEN stuff. I'm 90% confident we cannot be nuked by normal triads. Cool, I know you are super into this shit so I’ll go by your gut.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:45:33 PM EDT
[#28]
You'll own nothing . . . and you'll be happy.
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:05:35 AM EDT
[#29]
 Annie Jacobsen: Nuclear War, CIA, KGB, Aliens, Area 51, Roswell & Secrecy | Lex Fridman Podcast #420 |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:08:53 AM EDT
[#30]
 "Economy" after full nuclear war???
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:12:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When one bird flies, they all fly. You're talking 14k war heads on each side between the US and Russia alone. We’re all dead. And by all, I mean the entire planet. It’s a reset alright. lol We presume that but we don't know that. At some point, someone is going to test that theory. If Russia uses a low yield tactical nuke to make a hole in the lines in Ukraine, do you think we'd necessarily put Armageddon on the table? I bet we wouldn't. Keep going further and guess where that line actually is. I'm not sure anyone really knows. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:15:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Economy" after full nuclear war??? Silver & Gold won't be as important as Lead & Brass after the Uranium & Plutonium "do their thing" 
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:16:00 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For starters, no 14,000 warheads. It isn't the 80s anymore. Russia and the US have a max of 1550 deployed warheads, each, of any type, including tactical. Russia is still abiding by that so are we. Russia has far more weapons for use in Europe. They have hundreds for the US. China until recently only had dozens of warheads that could hit the US. Now they have hundreds. Anyone that attacks us has to put 100s of warheads into our ICBM silos. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How so, champ? Explain. For starters, no 14,000 warheads. It isn't the 80s anymore. Russia and the US have a max of 1550 deployed warheads, each, of any type, including tactical. Russia is still abiding by that so are we. Russia has far more weapons for use in Europe. They have hundreds for the US. China until recently only had dozens of warheads that could hit the US. Now they have hundreds. Anyone that attacks us has to put 100s of warheads into our ICBM silos. Is Russia suddenly trustworthy now? |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:17:21 AM EDT
[#34]
LOL. Warlord time.
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:18:06 AM EDT
[#35]
We have no fucking clue.
In my view the likely worst case outcome would pretty much mean folks in big cities drinking each others blood after 3 or 4 days. Derive from that the sort of chaos that would ensue everywhere. It's probably a safe bet to assume your mortgage would not really be very high on anyone's list of concerns. Of course it all depends on what level of infrastructure disruption is experienced and the perceived duration of that disruption. If some population centers got wiped out and mil/gov sites got flattened but the lights were still on, the water was still flowing and fallout minimal in the rest of the country it may have little effect on the daily life of most americans. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:36:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The answer is held in the term "continuity of government." If that exists, then legal claims still hold up (though they may get modified by legislation, like student loans getting dismissed do.) Nearly every time a country experiences a revolution or major change in government, one of the first things they do is pass a law recognizing continuity of government. Without it, all claims of titles on property, etc go away and continuing operations would be nearly impossible (no one is going to invest/support infrastructure if the lose ownership.) It'd take quite the war to wipe out every county recorder in the US. I could see some areas so obliterated that property is meaningless, though. Economies will be duly fucked regardless with an all out nuclear war, presumably they'd revert to local bartering among survivors. Your local flea market will be the new Walmart |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 1:23:07 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be total chaos and you would be able to keep whatever you're able to hold on to by means of violence. Eventually things would settle down and communities would spring back up but it's going to be many bloody years down the road. This, but think more of the movie "the Road", as the radiation fall out pretty much takes everything out for a long time, and civilization goes back to the dark ages of violence for control. And that is only for countries that are not directly hit, or far enough down wind that the radiation fall out does not take them out as well. But on the positive note, the governments will be out of their bunkers in a few decades all weaponized up, to to eradicate the mutants that the remaining above ground population has become, to take control of the countries again. And just a reminder, you have Buckly in the usa, Menwith Hill in england, and Pine gap in Austral that are all first strike targets, subs firing from both the arctic and antarctic that will have counter strikes to them, So all out nuclear war is going to have radation fall out across the entire planet. And if that is not bad enough, keep in mind the reduction of oxgen in the air, that the strikes are going to burnt up as well, so if that does not kill you, the radiation fall out, then you get to look forward to nuclar winter where you either freeze or starve to death instead. So as a boomer that has lived through the cold war, now is the time for the millennials to worry about it now. The only difference, we where at least told that lie of duck and cover and you may live through it, while all that pretty much went away, with the government plan of just them living in the bunkers, for them to restart civilization again down the line instead. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 1:58:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Radiation fallout is dramatically over-emphasized as an actual concern for everyone alive the Day After. No, you don't want to be downwind of LA. Realistically though, long distance downrange fallout is going to be near the bottom of the list of mortality causes for deaths in the first six months. Cropland will not be ruined for generations; the hot stuff that's truly dangerous has reasonably short half-lives, and crops the year after probably aren't a major concern.
The loss of the powe grid and food production/distribution is going to be the largest cause of deaths over a six month span. IIRC, RAND did a study in the 80s or 90s that indicated just a ten warhead strike against oil refineries would result in basically the entire destruction of the economy overnight, and would require massive foreign aid to prevent the majority of the populace from starving inside of a year. Put simply, anyone not on a remote, relatively self-sufficient farmstead is going to have a shitty end. Large portions of the globe will probably be untouched by a full scale exchange, but those same areas aren't in possession of major foreign aid mechanisms to effectively begin supporting the survivors of the major powers...and it's unclear why they would want to do so. Brazil, Indonesia, Australia, Nigeria...they're probably going to suffer massive secondary economic damage, but without direct physical damage from combat, those and similar countries will stand to come out on top within a decade or two. Too much relies on granular tactical details to allow meaningful extrapolation of specific effects in a given area. It's pretty hard to see any scenario where the IRS is going around demanding taxes the following April, however, particularly when at least half the population is dead, gas for travel exceedingly difficult to come by, and regional violence levels high enough to make Haiti a destination for refugees from the southern states. International corporations may still exist in many cases with backup protocols enacted, but BoA ain't gonna have anyone to file foreclosures when 60-80% of their US staff are dead, and the remainder are struggling to find food to stave off starvation. Nothing we currently know to exist in inventory is going to be sufficient to end modern civilization entirely. It will, however, sucker punch industrialized countries hard enough to make a recovery to pre-Exchange standards of technology and efficiency at least a 30-50 year effort globally. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:32:44 AM EDT
[#39]
For reference, the people who really really need to die. Will be riding out the apocalypse quite comfortably in their bunkers with their cheerleader sex slaves.
Meanwhile the people who are the most valuable and useful will be dying of radiation poisoning. Why do you think all of these billionaires have bunkers. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:43:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Debt is debt until you pay it off. Their records are steeped in redundancy. However, to help the country recover, I expect most debt will be forgiven. That said, don't hold your breath until they do.
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:55:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When one bird flies, they all fly. You're talking 14k war heads on each side between the US and Russia alone. We’re all dead. And by all, I mean the entire planet. It’s a reset alright. lol Good heavens you really need to do your homework. As of 2024, the Federation of American Scientists estimates that Russia possesses 5,580 nuclear weapons, while the United States has 5,428; Russia and the U.S. each have about 1,600 active deployed strategic nuclear warheads. Only the subs have MIRV missiles. U.S. Navy currently has 18 Ohio-class submarines deployed, of which 14 are designated SSBNs and armed with 24 Trident II SLBMs each, for a total of 288 Trident II missiles equipped with 1,152 MIRV nuclear warheads. In a nuclear war many will survive to pick up the pieces. Life will go on. Only in Hollywood and alarmists selling books claim all mankind is going to die. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 3:11:24 AM EDT
[#42]
...................
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Posted: 4/1/2024 3:43:11 AM EDT
[#43]
A nuke attic that ends civilization, and "economy" is the question?
What a tarded thread. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 3:50:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You claim your are "financially secure" yet your "investments" not to mention even physical money in a safe would become worth next to nothing in an actual World War 3 massive nuclear exchange. Even Gold & Silver doesn't mean anything to someone who is watching their loved ones freezing or starving to death. You wouldn't in any way miss those "little things" like maybe ...electricity, gasoline, medicine & modern health care, an ample & available supply of safe food or ample & available supply of safe water or even being able to buy a few rolls of good old toilet paper down at the corner convience store? All the death & destruction across the world & the sheer misery for the survivors for generations, But to you it is all somehow "worth" the lives of those billions of people because of. ... ... ... Never_Trumpers  Your reply is why people can't take Trump Worshipers seriously. Bigger_Hammer Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wouldn’t care. I’m financially secure, no matter what comes. I am sick to death of Lefties and their “useful idiots”, the never_TRUMPers, tearing this country down. I wouldn’t miss a single one. You claim your are "financially secure" yet your "investments" not to mention even physical money in a safe would become worth next to nothing in an actual World War 3 massive nuclear exchange. Even Gold & Silver doesn't mean anything to someone who is watching their loved ones freezing or starving to death. You wouldn't in any way miss those "little things" like maybe ...electricity, gasoline, medicine & modern health care, an ample & available supply of safe food or ample & available supply of safe water or even being able to buy a few rolls of good old toilet paper down at the corner convience store? All the death & destruction across the world & the sheer misery for the survivors for generations, But to you it is all somehow "worth" the lives of those billions of people because of. ... ... ... Never_Trumpers Your reply is why people can't take Trump Worshipers seriously. Bigger_Hammer ^^^^^ Typical two-dimensional thinking. Investments? Gold? Silver? Crypto? (which you forgot) No. “TRUMP worship”? Hardly. Disgust for anyone who still believes everything is “politics, as usual”, 3-1/2years after the 2020 election? YEP! At this point, anyone saying the 2020 election was legitimate is either dishonest, or willfully ignorant. ^^^^ Are you either of these? The United States Government, and the United States Constituion were overthrown between November 3, 2020, and January 20, 2021. Anyone saying TRUMP lost legitimately can’t be taken seriously, and wouldn’t know a wooden nickel from a silver dollar. Now, back to your quote of my post: The planned world (New World Order) by the World Economic Forum (WEF) will be worse than the reality of a nuclear war, and involves far more deaths. Seriously. Joe Biden did not receive 81M legitimate votes in 2020. He is illegitimate. His “election” was necessary for the WEF to propagate their “Great Reset”, for purpose of instituting their New World Order. The WEF have been infiltrating governments world-wide for decades through election fraud. It was not limited to the United States in 2020, nor did their fraud and infiltration begin and end with this. If more people don’t wake up, they’ll be eating bugs soon enough. ^^^^ Those that know, know. I still don’t care. Me and mine are good to go, and we won’t be eating bugs, “canned sunshine”, or not. Only TRUMP has the moxie and financial resources to withstand the Globalists’ attack on a personal level. ^^^^ No other. The United States is under attack, and only TRUMP as POTUS can stop it. If TRUMP is defeated the United States will fall forever, as will the world. Don’t be part of the problem. WAKE UP!! |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 4:06:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This, but think more of the movie "the Road", as the radiation fall out pretty much takes everything out for a long time, and civilization goes back to the dark ages of violence for control. And that is only for countries that are not directly hit, or far enough down wind that the radiation fall out does not take them out as well. But on the positive note, the governments will be out of their bunkers in a few decades all weaponized up, to to eradicate the mutants that the remaining above ground population has become, to take control of the countries again. And just a reminder, you have Buckly in the usa, Menwith Hill in england, and Pine gap in Austral that are all first strike targets, subs firing from both the arctic and antarctic that will have counter strikes to them, So all out nuclear war is going to have radation fall out across the entire planet. And if that is not bad enough, keep in mind the reduction of oxgen in the air, that the strikes are going to burnt up as well, so if that does not kill you, the radiation fall out, then you get to look forward to nuclar winter where you either freeze or starve to death instead. So as a boomer that has lived through the cold war, now is the time for the millennials to worry about it now. The only difference, we where at least told that lie of duck and cover and you may live through it, while all that pretty much went away, with the government plan of just them living in the bunkers, for them to restart civilization again down the line instead. Well we can tell who bought into the Soviet “nuclear winter” bullshit, along with a bunch of other nonsense…. Maybe look into why fallout shelters are only required for a certain length of time- days to weeks. Radiation half life means things get a hell of a lot safer pretty fast. Maybe look at the current condition of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?… |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 5:57:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, your whole assumption is that the major population centers will not be targeted. 2,200 devices but there won’t be any left for, say, the 50 largest urban areas in the United States. Yeah, I wouldn’t count on that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Exercise for the student. Starting assumptions are: - Per the Moscow Treaty of 2006 and the New START treaty of 2010, there are only 1500-2200 operationally deployed strategic nuclear weapons available to either the US or Russia. ODSNWs are defined as a weapon: - Mated to an ICBM - Mated to an SLBM - Stored in an igloo at a bomber base. This number is fairly accurate, as A) those kinds of weapons require specialized weapons systems to carry them, and B) numerous remote and on-site verification methods are in place to ensure compliance. Let's use 2200 weapons available as a starting point, the maximum allowed under those two treaties. - Assume all weapons are 1Mt in size. Sooo.....Go to this website. I prefer this site to many others (cough anything by Greenpeace cough cough), because this guy actually based his calculator off the works of Glasstone, the premiere nuclear effects scientist of any age, instead of "OMG THE BLAST RADIUS IS LIKE THE .45 ACP OF NUKES AND WILL DESTROY NIGERIA IF SET OFF IN HAWAII!!!" Calculate the effects radii for a 1Mt weapon. Using the thermal radiation radius (farthest-reaching effect), calculate the square mileage (multiply the km2 by .62 to get mi2) affected by said 1Mt weapon (don't forget, pi are squared ("No they're not, they're round!")). Multiply by 2200 (# of weapons available). You now have the total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon. Question #1: compare total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon to the total square mileage of the United States. (Wikipedia says that # is 3,796,742 square miles). Inaccuracies: - We don't use very many 1Mt weapons any more. Improvements in accuracy means they are significantly smaller than that. So the actual are affected is reduced by a significant percentage. - Remember, this is the UPPER limit of available weapons. - This assumes all yeilds are evenly spread across the country. However, the probability of kill (the chances the weapon will actually destroy the target) is never 1.0, so for targets that absolutely, positively need to die, you may decide to go 2:1 or even 3:1. So, more math. Assume the following priority targets: - 450 MMIII launch facilities - 45 MMIII launch control centers - 3 Minuteman support bases - 2 B52 bases - 1 B2 base - 2 sub bases - Let's say 20 nuclear command and control facilities of various flavors. (For the moment we'll ignore other priority military targets like the Pentagon, etc.) Calculate the number of weapons used for 3:1 targeting on the Minuteman sites + 2:1 targeting on the soft targets and 3:1 on the C2 facilities. That's the ACTUAL number of designated ground zeros, so multiply your square miles affected from one weapon by this number to get the actual square mileage affected. Question #2: compare square mileage affected by actual # of DGZs as a percentage to the total square mileage of the United States. NOTE: Most of these impacts will be in the three missile fields in the Midwest/West, and several targets on both coasts, with a few odds and ends sprinkled here and there (Omaha, Cheyenne Mountain, etc.) Question #3: Given the locations of most of those DGZs, and their LACK of proximity to most of the major economic, manufacturing, and transportation hubs of the US, (or, for that matter, most of the houses of the doomers in this thread) describe the effects that taking out these targets will have on: A) the overall economic system of the United States B) The ability to conduct an economic transaction in, say, Ohio (or Arizona, or Florida, or Topeka) C) The ability to provide water, power, sewer, and trash service in any of the places listed in B) above. I'll wait. ETA: Want to know the really sad part? This comes up often enough that I just cut and paste this into the thread. So, your whole assumption is that the major population centers will not be targeted. 2,200 devices but there won’t be any left for, say, the 50 largest urban areas in the United States. Yeah, I wouldn’t count on that. I would. MAD went out in the 70s, when people realized that going after cities A) doesn't accomplish anything besides wholesale slaughter, B) discourages restraint, and C) is actually against the Laws of Armed Conflict. (Yes, even nukes need to comply with LAOC.) Flexible Response has been the official targeting philosophy since Nixon. Feel free to reject reality and substitute your own, but keep in mind, step 1 of that process is rejecting reality. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:02:10 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What stops someone from just staying in the core center of their house with the doors and windows closed in one of the areas that’s hot. Assuming the house isn’t destroyed or the windows all blown out. If you’re home and can buckle down you’ll have some free time. Tape off any concerning gaps around doors quickly. Turn off the water lines after sealing the drains and filling the tub as much as you can before water pressure is gone. Hold out for a couple weeks will be hard but doable as long as you have water and food. Assuming you’re the typical arfcommer that’s 6’3" 9" and making half mill a year you should have the food and water preps covered. After the two weeks are up. The mob of radiated and poisoned zombies might be hard to quell… at first. Wait. Did I just type out the Arfcom fantasy ? Maybe, but you also just (sorta) recreated the 1950s Civil Defense fallout shelter manual. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:03:31 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put simply, the entire exercise is a guess. Every country has their own nuclear game theory. Within each country's theory, there's no free lunch. If you target population centers, you don't get guaranteed kills on other nukes. If you target nukes, you don't take out the economy that can produce the nukes. If you try to get both you use all your nukes, and then you can get nuked. Simply put Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Exercise for the student. Starting assumptions are: - Per the Moscow Treaty of 2006 and the New START treaty of 2010, there are only 1500-2200 operationally deployed strategic nuclear weapons available to either the US or Russia. ODSNWs are defined as a weapon: - Mated to an ICBM - Mated to an SLBM - Stored in an igloo at a bomber base. This number is fairly accurate, as A) those kinds of weapons require specialized weapons systems to carry them, and B) numerous remote and on-site verification methods are in place to ensure compliance. Let's use 2200 weapons available as a starting point, the maximum allowed under those two treaties. - Assume all weapons are 1Mt in size. Sooo.....Go to this website. I prefer this site to many others (cough anything by Greenpeace cough cough), because this guy actually based his calculator off the works of Glasstone, the premiere nuclear effects scientist of any age, instead of "OMG THE BLAST RADIUS IS LIKE THE .45 ACP OF NUKES AND WILL DESTROY NIGERIA IF SET OFF IN HAWAII!!!" Calculate the effects radii for a 1Mt weapon. Using the thermal radiation radius (farthest-reaching effect), calculate the square mileage (multiply the km2 by .62 to get mi2) affected by said 1Mt weapon (don't forget, pi are squared ("No they're not, they're round!")). Multiply by 2200 (# of weapons available). You now have the total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon. Question #1: compare total square mileage affected by the farthest-reaching effect of a 1Mt weapon to the total square mileage of the United States. (Wikipedia says that # is 3,796,742 square miles). Inaccuracies: - We don't use very many 1Mt weapons any more. Improvements in accuracy means they are significantly smaller than that. So the actual are affected is reduced by a significant percentage. - Remember, this is the UPPER limit of available weapons. - This assumes all yeilds are evenly spread across the country. However, the probability of kill (the chances the weapon will actually destroy the target) is never 1.0, so for targets that absolutely, positively need to die, you may decide to go 2:1 or even 3:1. So, more math. Assume the following priority targets: - 450 MMIII launch facilities - 45 MMIII launch control centers - 3 Minuteman support bases - 2 B52 bases - 1 B2 base - 2 sub bases - Let's say 20 nuclear command and control facilities of various flavors. (For the moment we'll ignore other priority military targets like the Pentagon, etc.) Calculate the number of weapons used for 3:1 targeting on the Minuteman sites + 2:1 targeting on the soft targets and 3:1 on the C2 facilities. That's the ACTUAL number of designated ground zeros, so multiply your square miles affected from one weapon by this number to get the actual square mileage affected. Question #2: compare square mileage affected by actual # of DGZs as a percentage to the total square mileage of the United States. NOTE: Most of these impacts will be in the three missile fields in the Midwest/West, and several targets on both coasts, with a few odds and ends sprinkled here and there (Omaha, Cheyenne Mountain, etc.) Question #3: Given the locations of most of those DGZs, and their LACK of proximity to most of the major economic, manufacturing, and transportation hubs of the US, (or, for that matter, most of the houses of the doomers in this thread) describe the effects that taking out these targets will have on: A) the overall economic system of the United States B) The ability to conduct an economic transaction in, say, Ohio (or Arizona, or Florida, or Topeka) C) The ability to provide water, power, sewer, and trash service in any of the places listed in B) above. I'll wait. ETA: Want to know the really sad part? This comes up often enough that I just cut and paste this into the thread. So, your whole assumption is that the major population centers will not be targeted. 2,200 devices but there won’t be any left for, say, the 50 largest urban areas in the United States. Yeah, I wouldn’t count on that. Put simply, the entire exercise is a guess. Every country has their own nuclear game theory. Within each country's theory, there's no free lunch. If you target population centers, you don't get guaranteed kills on other nukes. If you target nukes, you don't take out the economy that can produce the nukes. If you try to get both you use all your nukes, and then you can get nuked. Simply put No...it's not a guess. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:11:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be rational to expect Russia to target the cities. They don’t care that much about retaliation, and they know it would hurt us, more than them. No. Targeting cities DIScourages restraint, turns the war from a military endeavor into simply wholesale slaughter, and, again, is against the Laws of Armed Conflict, which nuclear weapons still have to comply with. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:14:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What guarantee is there that Russia *IS* abiding by it? Is Russia suddenly trustworthy now? There's an entire branch of the DoD called the On Site Inspection Agency to make sure they're complying. See also: Open Skies Treaty. |
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