User Panel
Quoted: Not to mention landfills or some other waste disposal method. The concept that some other agricultural / city-building civilization, let alone an industrialized one, existed that we don't know about is ludicrous. The very nature of those things dictates they leave traces. And, an industrialized civilization that didn't spread to the whole planet? Please. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: radioactive isotopes alloys ceramics organics (plastics) All of those would have been found in a mine by now. The concept that some other agricultural / city-building civilization, let alone an industrialized one, existed that we don't know about is ludicrous. The very nature of those things dictates they leave traces. And, an industrialized civilization that didn't spread to the whole planet? Please. LOL. |
|
Quoted: Well first we'd have to figure out which species would be capable of such a civilization as millions of years ago is outside the range of homo sapiens. View Quote They looked kinda like 6ft pineapples with tentacles and wings. We were genetically engineered by them for food and labor. Their headquarters were in the mountains of Antarctica. |
|
Quoted: I believe there is a chance a civilization more advanced than we give credit for (think Iron Age) may have been around thousands of years prior to what we currently document. The consistency in architecture (stone blocks) between different continents is staggering. There was contact between ancient people. We can't figure out how they made certain stone structures, yet multiple civilizations thousands of miles apart independently developed the same method? Okay. View Quote There are huge similarities in written languages and artwork too. Also some of the Aztec structures greatly resemble ancient Egyptian. And what about the mound building Native Americans, I don't think it is just coincidence that style evolved on its own when compared to other mound builders in northern Africa. |
|
Yes its possible. The catch is when academia was more open to the possibility of there being ancient advance civilizations the whole idea just run amok. Professors were just making up all sorts of stories to fit with their political beleifs or just to get attention. Any real research got lost in the pile of garbage. Anyway after a lot of big time trouble academia has had a big we are not going anywhere near this subject and really pushed the notion academia has always been that way. |
|
Quoted: That's one of the issues. If the previous industrial society was operating in a different ecology, would the resulting metals have impurities at all? Take a look at Jurassic Park, the scene where the Triceratops is down and being examined - because as the script and book both relate, it's lung tissue capacity is insufficient for earth's current atmospheric pressure of 14.5 psi. It's postulated that before a certain time when dinosaurs roamed the earth that a heavy overmantle existed in the troposphere or higher which largely contained ice and the result was that i sheltered earth from a number exterior radiological contaminants while maintaining air pressures of 30+ psi. Then the Flood came, in which the "fountains of the deep" expulsed a high amount of - ? Consider the meteor which created the Yucatan impact - coming thru said mantle and opening it up to sudden depressurization, melting, and the resulting impact of millions of acre feet of water raining down on earth. For the most part, filling the oceans while also sweeping away a great deal of life and burying it under the waters. Mt Saint Helens have been an interesting case in seeing the results and the highly accelerated development of what happens - coal, and oil. There are already artifacts recovered and considered "anomalies" where metal objects are found made of almost pure isotopes which when dated are almost impossible to determine, but which the circumstances etc relate at least 10-15,000 years ago - and yet suffer little to no corrosion. That they were found at all in that strata is unexplainable, normal objects we make today won't last months in the same circumstances. If anything, bog iron does better - the original forged into "wrought" iron that has a fibrous content and which will always stretch rather than break. While the paper proposes to discover traces of early industrial civilization we currently ignore or even cover it up - why the channels that would contain some kind of fluid in South America - installed upside down? As if they were not subject to gravity? What we limit ourselves in researching these items is a tightly controlled and limited focus on how they relate to the physics we see around us now - rather than the physics others might have used to create them in the first place. If you can control the polarization of ion to make a gravity well and then use it to propel yourself thru the 3 D's as we know them, why can't you also create pure isotopes where the crystalline matrix is uncompromised by earthly inclusions? If the mantle did collapse and washed away previous civilization, then according to what previous land contours and coastlines would it have existed before, and deposited into? We have all sorts of projections of what coastlines would look like if the seas rose, take enough water out of them to create a pressure vessel 350 miles up to contain our atmosphere, what would the globe look like then? With that picture, the put the continental plates back into their original configuration, and you might have some more discrete locations to search. You may well find Atlantis. And, given the intent of the Flood, you may well regret what you find. What has been seen can't be unseen, same as the pyramids in Mexico where humans were sacrificed to satisfy belligerent gods. View Quote Lol so the earth was surrounded by a hollow sphere of ice and there were thriving civilizations on that world? I didn't go read the article yet but they seem to be looking through fossil/icecores to fund if ancient humans made global warming already. If that's the case the authors are smoking about as much crack as this guy |
|
Quoted: Closed the entrance by piling debris over it perhaps. Not going to do much to a 1000 ft deep mine shaft though. View Quote |
|
Was There an Ancient Iron Mine at Giza Before the Pyramids? | Ancient Architects |
|
It's interesting to find out, that's one of the joys of science and investigation.
|
|
|
|
You'd think someone would have found an ancient 10mm socket by now.
edit: beat |
|
View Quote Most likely if a mine used for tombs. There is a theory of a hidden room under the Sphinx containing ancient records and that Egyptian antiquity authorities will not allow work around. The former director was an attention whore and putz, hawass. Supposedly, the Sphinx is far older per geological info such as when the Sahara was a wet climate. |
|
Oh come on, if you believe one bit of the environmentalist garbage floating around, you'd know any industrialized society would have altered the earth forever.
But I'm sure someone will come along and float some sort of socialist, nature harmony living in trees bullshit. |
|
Quoted: The Silurian hypothesis: would it be possible to detect an industrial civilization in the geological record? https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/silurian-hypothesis-would-it-be-possible-to-detect-an-industrial-civilization-in-the-geological-record/77818514AA6907750B8F4339F7C70EC6 Abstract If an industrial civilization had existed on Earth many millions of years prior to our own era, what traces would it have left and would they be detectable today? We summarize the likely geological fingerprint of the Anthropocene, and demonstrate that while clear, it will not differ greatly in many respects from other known events in the geological record. We then propose tests that could plausibly distinguish an industrial cause from an otherwise naturally occurring climate event. Link to full paper View Quote Not a scientist, but there are things industrial civilization produces that persist against the elements pretty well. Enough of that stuff would have survived to have obviously come from an industrialized society. |
|
It would be possible to detect if the site was found. The site has never been found. I doubt it exists.
Example: we know a LOT about ancient Meso-American cultures. There are hundreds of cities. We know where many, or most, of them were. Advanced cultures leave all sorts of evidence. |
|
|
|
Quoted: We have fossil footprints. Why not fossil tire tracks? View Quote Attached File Serious answer, there have been millions of years of animal tracks made by trillions of animals and we only have a tiny fraction of the tiny fraction of those that fossilized. Many entire species left no known tracks and the number of tire tracks our civilization has left in the woods is nothing compared to the number of animal tracks. It's very unlikely that scientists in the year 10 million will ever puzzle over BMX bike tracks. |
|
Quoted: The moon was probably once a part of earth. Whatever the fuck dislodged it from us liquified both moon and earth enough that they both returned to spherical form under gravity. Nothing we made would survive something like that. It would all end up smelted in the core. View Quote Let me know if you are interested in learning a "tier one" lesson about the creation of the moon. I taught this topic extensively in Earth Science for half-a-dozen years to public school kids, and studied it independently. It is indeed a fascinating story. |
|
Like the evidence of an ancient noo-clar blast or two in N-D-ah?
|
|
Quoted: That's one of the issues. If the previous industrial society was operating in a different ecology, would the resulting metals have impurities at all? Take a look at Jurassic Park, the scene where the Triceratops is down and being examined - because as the script and book both relate, it's lung tissue capacity is insufficient for earth's current atmospheric pressure of 14.5 psi. It's postulated that before a certain time when dinosaurs roamed the earth that a heavy overmantle existed in the troposphere or higher which largely contained ice and the result was that i sheltered earth from a number exterior radiological contaminants while maintaining air pressures of 30+ psi. Then the Flood came, in which the "fountains of the deep" expulsed a high amount of - ? Consider the meteor which created the Yucatan impact - coming thru said mantle and opening it up to sudden depressurization, melting, and the resulting impact of millions of acre feet of water raining down on earth. For the most part, filling the oceans while also sweeping away a great deal of life and burying it under the waters. Mt Saint Helens have been an interesting case in seeing the results and the highly accelerated development of what happens - coal, and oil. There are already artifacts recovered and considered "anomalies" where metal objects are found made of almost pure isotopes which when dated are almost impossible to determine, but which the circumstances etc relate at least 10-15,000 years ago - and yet suffer little to no corrosion. That they were found at all in that strata is unexplainable, normal objects we make today won't last months in the same circumstances. If anything, bog iron does better - the original forged into "wrought" iron that has a fibrous content and which will always stretch rather than break. While the paper proposes to discover traces of early industrial civilization we currently ignore or even cover it up - why the channels that would contain some kind of fluid in South America - installed upside down? As if they were not subject to gravity? What we limit ourselves in researching these items is a tightly controlled and limited focus on how they relate to the physics we see around us now - rather than the physics others might have used to create them in the first place. If you can control the polarization of ion to make a gravity well and then use it to propel yourself thru the 3 D's as we know them, why can't you also create pure isotopes where the crystalline matrix is uncompromised by earthly inclusions? If the mantle did collapse and washed away previous civilization, then according to what previous land contours and coastlines would it have existed before, and deposited into? We have all sorts of projections of what coastlines would look like if the seas rose, take enough water out of them to create a pressure vessel 350 miles up to contain our atmosphere, what would the globe look like then? With that picture, the put the continental plates back into their original configuration, and you might have some more discrete locations to search. You may well find Atlantis. And, given the intent of the Flood, you may well regret what you find. What has been seen can't be unseen, same as the pyramids in Mexico where humans were sacrificed to satisfy belligerent gods. View Quote You should stop saying things. |
|
Quoted: I look forward to meeting our space colonizing dinosaur predecessors. http://img.trekmovie.com/images/celeb/janeway-distant.jpg But seriously, I agree that we don't know shit about fuck and I think there's enough room in Earth's history for another civilization or ten. If you look at the history of science we tend to assume whatever we have to to make ourselves unique, but as our knowledge has expanded our uniqueness has suffered. We started with my tribe is the only "real" people, then people with my skin color are the only sentient ones, then only humans have intelligence everything else is a survival robot, only humans and primates have intelligence, only humans primates dolphins and some birds have intelligence, there's probably alien life too, there's probably alien intelligence, there's probably superior alien intelligence... My town is the center of the universe (which is a dome about a 1,000 miles wide), my continent is the center of the universe, Earth is the center of the universe, Earth is the center of the solar system, the solar system is the center of the universe, the sun is God, the sun is unique, the sun is unremarkable among trillions of stars, the solar system is on the ass end of a backwater galaxy which is unremarkable among 100 billion galaxies, this is the only universe, there might be other universes, there may be infinite universes. See also the evolution of our conception of neanderthals from grunting ape-men to an intelligent people with tools, art, and religion. Each step has been slow and painful because it diminishes our sense of exceptionalism. Is it likely that we've just now become totally objective? We should assume that we're still unconsciously ignoring evidence to make ourselves seem more important. View Quote These are good questions, the kind people should be asking. You need to keep saying things! |
|
Anyone remember the sci fi story where they excavated a perfect duplicate of our society while drilling down into the geological stratta?
|
|
Quoted: The Moon was (almost certainly) formed long before ANY life came to exist on Earth, simply because the planets would have been continuously bombarded by fairly large asteroids long after their orbits were swept clean of anything as large as the body that caused the Moon to form. Also, you don't need to liquify a body the size of the Moon or the Earth for it to reach spherical shape - its own mass will ensure that the stresses generated by gravity will overcome the strength of the material making up the body and force it into a spherical shape. There will be surface imperfections of course, but the overall shape will be spherical. For a rocky body, this occurs once you exceed around 600 km in diameter. Mike View Quote Not one inaccurate word here. You are clearly familiar with the physics of cosmology that govern the construction of bodies in space. Good job. |
|
Quoted: If it was sitting on the ocean floor, probably very difficult. They're doing great things with satellite imagery to find traces of old civilizations on the continents, but if its below the water that's going to make the process of identifying the location difficult. View Quote This is why global warming needs to be turned into global evaporation before I die so we can see what is beneath the oceans. |
|
Quoted: I believe there is a chance a civilization more advanced than we give credit for (think Iron Age) may have been around thousands of years prior to what we currently document. The consistency in architecture (stone blocks) between different continents is staggering. There was contact between ancient people. We can't figure out how they made certain stone structures, yet multiple civilizations thfousands of miles apart independently developed the same method? Okay. View Quote Um, people all developed "stone blocks" because geometry and physics are constants. Just like pyramids are the most stable and simple structure to construct. |
|
The presence of large amounts of xenon 129 in Mars atmosphere indicates a planet killing nuclear war in the very distant past. Seriously.
|
|
|
Quoted: You are assuming that our current methods are the only methods. Perhaps they, if there actually was a "they", went in a completely different direction. Maybe they mastered alchemy or turned kudzu into cloth or food without producing the same type of waste products associated with modern industry. View Quote You mean Chemistry. Alchemy was proto-chemistry with strange mystic elements thrown in. And it doesn’t work, though a nuclear reactor can turn lead into gold. And we’d have evidence of KudzuPlanet too. Sudden changes in atmospheric chemistry would get noticed as well. The only real “civilization” that could have existed and disappeared would be one that left no footprint, meaning no waste of any sort. Meaning no actual civilization of any scale. |
|
Quoted: Plenty of 100 year old mine shafts have collapsed, hell there's a federal agency that concerns itself with preventing 10 year old mine shafts from collapsing, how many do you think would be intact after, say, 50,000 years? View Quote A mineshaft may collapse, but it would still be a recognizable disruption of the layers of rock that it was dug through. The rock layers for the horizontal shafts/galleries would no longer be intact, and vertical shaft collapses would drop newer layers of rock into areas that are millions of years older. Such disruption should be easily identified via reflection seismology, used by (for instance) oil companies looking for likely oil-bearing strata - in this case it not detect the mixing, but the cracks/voids/discontinuities caused by the original mining plus the additional area broken up by the collapse. Mike |
|
|
|
Quoted: This is the excuse people use to justify turning imagination into “history”. Just because you can make up a story in your head doesn’t make it reality (or even plausible). No evidence, no case. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: We don't know shit about fuck. We think we know everything, but that's our own ego. This is the excuse people use to justify turning imagination into “history”. Just because you can make up a story in your head doesn’t make it reality (or even plausible). No evidence, no case. The evidence is contrary. |
|
Quoted: You mean Chemistry. Alchemy was proto-chemistry with strange mystic elements thrown in. And it doesn’t work, though a nuclear reactor can turn lead into gold. And we’d have evidence of KudzuPlanet too. Sudden changes in atmospheric chemistry would get noticed as well. The only real “civilization” that could have existed and disappeared would be one that left no footprint, meaning no waste of any sort. Meaning no actual civilization of any scale. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You are assuming that our current methods are the only methods. Perhaps they, if there actually was a "they", went in a completely different direction. Maybe they mastered alchemy or turned kudzu into cloth or food without producing the same type of waste products associated with modern industry. You mean Chemistry. Alchemy was proto-chemistry with strange mystic elements thrown in. And it doesn’t work, though a nuclear reactor can turn lead into gold. And we’d have evidence of KudzuPlanet too. Sudden changes in atmospheric chemistry would get noticed as well. The only real “civilization” that could have existed and disappeared would be one that left no footprint, meaning no waste of any sort. Meaning no actual civilization of any scale. No, there are changes noticed. Just say a volcano that must of done it. There is a difference between a natural explanation and a actual proof a natural explanation was the cause. |
|
Quoted: Right. Couldn’t possibly be anything else. Couldn’t be SciFi geeks seeing evidence for things they want to exist. Oh wait... View Quote I understand why the scientifically illiterate might think it could be something else. But it really can't be. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2660.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjO9Lvj2PzpAhUCSq0KHQ9LD5gQFjAJegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0pPt56sdAiqNd1v9mphTsC |
|
I would think that a mile of ice busily grinding down everything in it's path could easily obliterate not only the mineshaft but the mountain it's in, given enough time
|
|
Quoted: I like the example of Troy, it was a myth, till someone found it. Even now we are finding traces of civilization we didn't know existed or their extent through LIDAR and such tech. I have always wondered where Rome would be if it hadn't collapsed and survived till now? View Quote Well, the eastern part of the Empire didn't collapse at the end of antiquity, and survived until the 16th century, when it finally succumbed to Muslim conquests. |
|
Quoted: I understand why the scientifically illiterate might think it could be something else. But it really can't be. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2660.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjO9Lvj2PzpAhUCSq0KHQ9LD5gQFjAJegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0pPt56sdAiqNd1v9mphTsC View Quote |
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: I understand why the scientifically illiterate might think it could be something else. But it really can't be. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2660.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjO9Lvj2PzpAhUCSq0KHQ9LD5gQFjAJegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0pPt56sdAiqNd1v9mphTsC This pattern suggested a massive explosion, such as the explosive disassembly of a large natural nuclear reactor, producing a global debris pattern , with a shock wave wrapping around the planet and colliding with itself at the approximate antipode. We will also consider the hypothesis of explosions in mid-air of two large asteroidal bodies enriched in Iodine 129 and other fission products and fissional materials Basically it really looks like a nuclear war since we really don't know of a natural process that can do that. A nuclear war as a possibility is off the table so lets just guess. Really current science process fails in areas like this since it opens so many doors. Evolutionary theory and Religion suddenly would have to make major changes. Plus every crackpot could make a new grand story of everything. Who we are, how we should live, and who to hate. Could just be natural but science has to proceed with a set of possibilities off the table which complicates research. What if some details look like they confirm the nuke war hypothesis. Well those details have to be ignored even if eventually they instead confirm the opposite. |
|
|
Quoted: Most likely if a mine used for tombs. There is a theory of a hidden room under the Sphinx containing ancient records and that Egyptian antiquity authorities will not allow work around. The former director was an attention whore and putz, hawass. Supposedly, the Sphinx is far older per geological info such as when the Sahara was a wet climate. View Quote The Sphinx is carved out of bedrock. Bedrock is pretty old. |
|
|
I don't think most mines are going to survive, and be identifiable as such "many millions of years" in the future.
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.