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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:19:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hong Kong was a 100 year British/Chinese treaty. 
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:24:26 PM EDT
[#2]
If someone's grasp of geography,let alone knowledge of international treaties,is so poor that they have to ask if Taiwan is in NATO
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:25:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Yes, let’s start a nuclear war and essentially destroy our own country, over some other country taking over an island on the other side of the world.
 It sucks if they ever do it, but starting a nuclear war over it would be crazy. It’d be like us nuking the USSR because they invaded Afghanistan...which would’ve been utterly insane. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:28:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This ^ is where I get pissed off. Now I have no idea of Taiwan's military strength or lack thereof but suffice to say that imho, we should NOT be obligated to protect those who don't take their own safety and well being seriously. I have a similar issue with regard to Seoul when people get all weak in the knees about the amount of carnage NK can inflict on the city. They have had 60+ years to mitigate the issue of having such a large portion of their people and industry being in range of artillery or short range rockets and have continued to expand in the area under the expectation that we would be their "trip wire". Now I won't knock them as they seem to be actively trying to defend themselves BUT, the whole Seoul thing baffles me. It puts us in an incredibly bad position when they have basically left their collective ass hanging out over Grand Canyon. Am I wrong? We moved a lot of our units/posts south over the past few years. These days, our continued presence is more to show that we're serious about our commitment to treaty allies, and to maintain a presence in the region. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:29:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some US Senators disagree https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/99D8CD22-189B-46A9-9AC8-ECA94380A755_jpeg-793720.JPG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQEncd64h8Do they still call their themselves "The Communist Party"? Sure, but democrats are supposed to support and defend democracy here at home and we all know how much they love that one man, one vote thing. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:30:00 PM EDT
[#6]
 Trump signs Taiwan Travel Act to China''s dismay |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:32:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:34:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what if the aftermath is worse like is so often is? Groing up back in my hometown I had Vietnamese and Cambodian Neighbors, the stories I've heard ... war is brutal, and yet people don't learn from it most of the time, people just want power over others. I hate the price of freedom, its so damn High, sometimes costing hundreds of millions of people, is it worth It? ... it has to be. However there's one thing that always depresses me, we don't seem to change, I mean this in the regards of humanity, ever since we as a species discovered agriculture, we have been on this ride of never ending insanity, with either four outcomes in the end, either we finally win and freedom mostly wins over the Earth, or tyranny wins and all is under an Iron Fist of a few, or somehow we keep chugging along the way we are now for the next million years, perhaps the worst outcome, we completely destroy each other and the planet along with it. What bothers me most, is that I don't know, I will never live long enough to see the end of this, the outcome is still so far away, perhaps another ten thousand years. I can only think in silence |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:35:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, China isn't communist and hasn't been for decades. Plus we know how well that worked out for us last time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It wouldn't be a war over Taiwan, it would be a war against communism. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:35:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saying something again and again doesn't make it true. China stopped being communist about the same time the Soviets did. They are a totalitarian state with virtually zero freedoms, yes. But they are not communist. They only extend their citizens the freedoms that ultimately are of benefit to the state. They don't have any consideration for the morality of freedom. Do they still call their themselves "The Communist Party"? Sure, but democrats are supposed to support and defend democracy here at home and we all know how much they love that one man, one vote thing.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:35:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, another thing. Nuke China over Taiwan? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:38:20 PM EDT
[#12]
I’m no geopolitical strategist, but neither are the bulk of other posters. It’s incredibly important on the world stage that our word is our bond, especially when it comes to people we say we protect. Whenever we leave them to the wolves we look like shit, and we’ve done that a good bit recently. Other groups see that. Both groups we claim to protect, and people that would do them harm. Once both see our word is no good, our international interests are going to falter.
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:40:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no end to it. Tyranny is the language most of the world speaks. That's just how it is. Democracy and limited government only works when there is a culture of freedom to support and defend it. Be grateful that you live somewhere relatively peaceful where you can have a good life. Why sacrifice what we have here to give freedom to people overseas that don't even want it? It's pure insanity! I guess China's Last Hope really did die with the premature death of Sun Yat-sen, then again what could he even do? What a world. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:44:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m no geopolitical strategist, but neither are the bulk of other posters. It’s incredibly important on the world stage that our word is our bond, |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:46:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You’ll have to convince quite a few US Congressmembers, think tanks & Bill Gertz. None of them seem to think it’s a fake news label https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=4087 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/7FF65493-7EBA-4959-9E9E-01823772C2B2_jpeg-793741.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/6E1F4477-930A-4BEF-BB7B-4E1306154AD3_jpeg-793742.JPG "Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me." you can slap any label new label to the word evil, or tyranny. It is almost alive, it uses anything to its own gain no matter what it is. The word communism is just a tool, it is the illusion that is shown, it is not the reality of what is said behind closed doors All for power, everything else is irrelevant @CarmelBytheSea |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:48:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... and because of that fact, we collectively as a species might be doomed, I can only say that for you, if the day comes, get the hell off of that Island I guess China's Last Hope really did die with the premature death of Sun Yat-sen, then again what could he even do? What a world. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:48:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not even sure China could beat Taiwan in a straight up fight. I don't think China is either, else it would have already been attempted. And that didn't involve an opposed amphibious landing, the most difficult type of military operation known to man. If the Taiwanese are willing to fight, the ocean will run bright red with PRC blood. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:49:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hong Kong was a 100 year British/Chinese treaty. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:49:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The global trend is less violence, more peace and prosperity. I don't buy the pessimists view of humanity considering things now are better than they were 50 years ago, better then they were 100, 200, 500 years ago. People live longer healthier lives and as a percentage less and less of us are killed in wars, famines, natural disasters, etc. Governments also lessen their grip more and more on the whole. 500 years ago it was all monarchies the world over and now it's mostly democracies. In another 500 years there may not even be governments. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:50:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You’ll have to convince quite a few US Congressmembers, think tanks & Bill Gertz. None of them seem to think it’s a fake news label https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=4087 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/7FF65493-7EBA-4959-9E9E-01823772C2B2_jpeg-793741.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/6E1F4477-930A-4BEF-BB7B-4E1306154AD3_jpeg-793742.JPG |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:51:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The global trend is less violence, more peace and prosperity. I don't buy the pessimists view of humanity considering things now are better than they were 50 years ago, better then they were 100, 200, 500 years ago. People live longer healthier lives and as a percentage less and less of us are killed in wars, famines, natural disasters, etc. Governments also lessen their grip more and more on the whole. 500 years ago it was all monarchies the world over and now it's mostly democracies. In another 500 years there may not even be governments. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: ... and because of that fact, we collectively as a species might be doomed, I can only say that for you, if the day comes, get the hell off of that Island I guess China's Last Hope really did die with the premature death of Sun Yat-sen, then again what could he even do? What a world. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:52:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The British rent expired in Hong Kong, so, they moved out according to the lease agreement. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:53:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you need to reread what I posted previosuly. Simply calling it the "Communist Party" does not make it so. They are communist in name only. By your logic North Korea is a democracy since they call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You’ll have to convince quite a few US Congressmembers, think tanks & Bill Gertz. None of them seem to think it’s a fake news label https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=4087 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/7FF65493-7EBA-4959-9E9E-01823772C2B2_jpeg-793741.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/6E1F4477-930A-4BEF-BB7B-4E1306154AD3_jpeg-793742.JPG |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 1:59:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think you need to reread what I posted previosuly. Simply calling it the "Communist Party" does not make it so. They are communist in name only. By your logic North Korea is a democracy since they call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:01:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only thing that expired was the 99 year lease on the New Territories, the UK was under no obligation to return Hong Kong Island or Kowloon. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:03:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing you missed the memo that WWI and WWII killed more people than all wars killed in the 500 years of European Monarchy. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:07:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing you missed the memo where European monarchies didn't start 500 years ago but thousands of years ago. How about the Punic Wars, what percentage of Europe's population died then? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm guessing you missed the memo that WWI and WWII killed more people than all wars killed in the 500 years of European Monarchy. 
Thank you for proving my point that the period of European Monarchy was the most peaceful. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:08:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Washington didnt honor agreements with France once the King was unassed. England could have and should have said the same. "We did not have a lease with the new communist gov of china" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only thing that expired was the 99 year lease on the New Territories, the UK was under no obligation to return Hong Kong Island or Kowloon.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:10:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If someone's grasp of geography,let alone knowledge of international treaties,is so poor that they have to ask if Taiwan is in NATO |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:10:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So let it be written, so let it be done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The global trend is less violence, more peace and prosperity. I don't buy the pessimists view of humanity considering things now are better than they were 50 years ago, better then they were 100, 200, 500 years ago. People live longer healthier lives and as a percentage less and less of us are killed in wars, famines, natural disasters, etc. Governments also lessen their grip more and more on the whole. 500 years ago it was all monarchies the world over and now it's mostly democracies. In another 500 years there may not even be governments. Even here in the US the government has to approve of my gas can, my light "bulbs", my toilet, and thousands more things it used to have no say in. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:12:23 PM EDT
[#31]
I'd be far happier in a world of "The sun never sets on the British Empire" than I am where their influence has waned, and in almost every case despotism and dogshit has taken their place.
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:12:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: wonderful here on arfcom we get a "well thats not REAL communism" argument |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:13:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Meanwhile...
 China Bans "Winnie the Pooh" - Looks Too Much Like President Xi |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:18:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now the Roman Republic is a Monarchy?
Thank you for proving my point that the period of European Monarchy was the most peaceful. As time has progressed less people on average die throughout history. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:20:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In what alternate reality has "Governments also lessen their grip more and more on the whole" ? Even here in the US the government has to approve of my gas can, my light "bulbs", my toilet, and thousands more things it used to have no say in. ETA: How much time have you spent in the stocks recently for speaking ill of your vassal? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:25:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
China has been saying this for decades. Many decades. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:36:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No bluejames is right, to quote 1984 "Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me." you can slap any label new label to the word evil, or tyranny. It is almost alive, it uses anything to its own gain no matter what it is. The word communism is just a tool, it is the illusion that is shown, it is not the reality of what is said behind closed doors All for power, everything else is irrelevant @CarmelBytheSea |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:37:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think you need to reread what I posted previosuly. Simply calling it the "Communist Party" does not make it so. They are communist in name only. By your logic North Korea is a democracy since they call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:41:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sure am happy your not running the show. Do you understand the ramification of tossing nuclear weapons around? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You're damn right, they have to be stopped, if it was me the whole Mainland would be embargoed, I would even Ally with the Russians to make that happen Their government is soon-to-be ingsoc incarnate, they must be stopped. Eta, I'm a defacto Taoist, so perhaps I have more skin in the game then most @NickGunar |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:41:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spend quite a bit of HK and have friends that live there, most everyone who lived there before the handover hates the CCP and mainlanders. I took this photo at the Remembrance Day ceremony at the Cenotaph a couple months ago. Most protest events these days feature the Union Jack and colonial flag. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/338306/Rem_Day_JPG-793773.JPG  Chris Patten: UK risks ''selling its honour'' on Hong Kong - BBC Newsnight |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:49:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is Taiwan part of NATO or a protectorate of the USA? Why are we always the worlds policeman? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:57:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Xi badly needs emotionally charged foreign policy stuff to rally the Chinese around so he doesn't have to talk about how fucked their economy is while justifying his ascension to emperor. I think he'd welcome a cheap land war to both bind together and thin out the ranks a bit, but they're in a bad neighborhood for cheap, successful land wars. An air and sea war against somebody semi-competent or better would be hyper expensive without getting enough cannon fodder killed, and would invite intervention and probable defeat by the Japanese and Americans. But it wouldn't be the first time that rhetoric and pride and domestic politics led a cocky up and comer into a foreign policy cul-de-sac that he thought he had no choice but to try to fight his out of. So much of this is reminiscent of Japan-US in the late 30's. The resentment, the rapidly rising empire hemmed in by greater powers, the incestuous relationship between the Chinese military and government pushing them along a confrontational path, the US slapping them down for pushing too far hoping for a logical reaction, the inability of the Chinese to fold a bad hand and negotiate in good faith. That is going to make a whole bunch of socio-political effects like that. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:59:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then thank god you aren't in charge of anything but fixing Kia's. So let me get this straight.....you would be willing to kick off WWIII and instantly sacrifice millions of American lives and cities, our economy, basically our entire way of life and country as we know it for an attack against Taiwan? That's beyond bat shit crazy and in no way a defensible or logical position..... "peace in our time"? "Why die for Danzig?"? You have to do something you can't sit on your ass, the only difference from then and now is there is these things called nuclear weapons, if outright nuclear war can be prevented, then at least embargo or something, anything to deter them., at least now we're putting tariffs on their goods |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:04:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Re-read mine, parse each word |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:08:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m no geopolitical strategist, but neither are the bulk of other posters. It’s incredibly important on the world stage that our word is our bond, especially when it comes to people we say we protect. Whenever we leave them to the wolves we look like shit, and we’ve done that a good bit recently. Other groups see that. Both groups we claim to protect, and people that would do them harm. Once both see our word is no good, our international interests are going to falter. 
Ask the Kurds how well our "word is our bond". |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:25:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask the Kurds how well our "word is our bond". 
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:33:29 PM EDT
[#47]
... I'm just tired, tired of it all, I care far too much, what a ridiculous hell I'm forced to live in.
Big pony and I need to move out to the country. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:51:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... I'm just tired, tired of it all, I care far too much, what a ridiculous hell I'm forced to live in. Big pony and I need to move out to the country. “Welcome to the desert of the real” “All the world’s a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances, and one man in his time plays many parts” |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:59:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Trump https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3608137 The bill also reaffirms the U.S. position that cross-strait disputes must reach a "peaceful resolution acceptable to both sides of the Taiwan Strait."
Upon signing the Act Trump issued a statement declaring that his administration will commit to carrying out the provisions outlined in the ARIA Act which will see increased U.S. engagement across the Indo-Pacific. "My Administration will treat these provisions consistent with the President's exclusive constitutional authorities as Commander in Chief and as the sole representative of the United States in foreign affairs," President Trump was quoted by CNA. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rome was a Monarchy for the majority of its existance, not a republic. It was a republic for only about 500 years and a Monarchy for 700. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So now the Roman Republic is a Monarchy?
Thank you for proving my point that the period of European Monarchy was the most peaceful. The Roman monarchy was followed by the Roman Republic, and that is when the bloodlust began. The Republic was followed by the Empire. If you are claiming the Roman Empire was a monarchy, you are sufficiently ignorant of the history of government structures that everything you say should be disregarded. As time has progressed less people on average die throughout history. From government actions like war, intentional starvation, execution and genocide? Hell no. Only a someone completely ignorant of the 20th century death toll would claim that. People do not become better with time. Our tools and institutions become more efficient at murder with time though. |
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