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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:22:23 PM EST
[#1]
Quoted: Also, it's interesting that few EVER analyze the NECESSITY for MEANINGFUL productivity WRT our economic chances for recovery. It's as if folks can't fathom this SIMPLE concept that... ...'money' [a nation's wealth] doesn't grow on trees [like so many think], it results from MEANINGFUL production and selling a WHOLE LOTTA STUFF all over the world and being an economic LEADER. Without that, there is no chance in Hell of maintaining our present standard of living. [That we will soon see] It's funny, for years, everywhere I point this out, there is a mad dash for folks to stuff their heads up their hineys and you hear a faint LALALALALALA coming from their pie-holes.  In the future, economic historians and philosophers, reflecting on the causes of the final collapse of "The Great American Experiment", will find from among the many, many mistakes made, the most amusing and disastrous to have been our society's belief that it could maintain itself indefinitely as a "Consumer Economy" requiring "economic growth". That our economy depended on this absurdity for survival. They will compare our logic and mistake with the more primitive society of Easter Island, that consumed all its resources building statues facing the sea...and died. This among all the other mistakes they will mock, and single out as absolute folly. Scholars will try to understand HOW any rational society could arrive at such a bizarre idea. I hope our mistakes help them learn this important lesson and build a better society. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:34:17 PM EST
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Too late for anyone born in 2013... We are probably at least a generation too late to effect change with political action, and thus "delay" the inevitable collapse. But as we all know "The Great American Experiment" began to fail shortly after the ink dried on its founding documents. The collapse has just quickened over time. Now we are in the final chapter, the downhill slide. The mass and inertia is simply too great to stop through political action. I've concentrated my efforts on trying to politically block little bureaucratic movements, like fighting to stop the current mania to ban guns, I believe ultimately this effort will fail, but perhaps it can be delayed. We'll need guns when the psychopathic statist go on their final suicidal rampage. I'd say we're multiple generations too late, the Sheeple were being brainwashed in the 50's with Charlie the Tuna and mercury. We have been addicted to the flatscreen and comforts most kings never experienced. A lifestyle that is wholely unsustainable without commensurate PRODUCTIVITY and living with a rational seriousness of purpose. We've been led down carefully ENGINEERED PATH and we're too ignorant, self centered, and greedy to see where it leads. Our Normalcy Bias all the while hard at work. 
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:34:50 PM EST
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF we have a major economic collapse, the Federal gov't will be broke. Since the dollar is a fiat currency held aloft by the confidence that one fiat piece of paper is worth a certain number of goods and services, when the confidence in the dollar goes, the Federal gov't will be unable to pay ANYBODY whether in the FSA or not. If that happens, the Fed will not be in a position to control anything or implement whatever dumba$$ Stalinista policies it tries simply because there won't be any .gov workers to do so. No pay == no work. On the bright side, with the entirety of the Federal morass on holiday, it is exceptionally likely that the productive part of the economy will suddenly have the 5lb tick on the 10lb dog removed. Most likely, without the propping up of Ponzi dollars, the major banks will go poof simultaneously and the actually solvent banks will step in to take their place. It would be a rough time for certain. But, it would also cleanse the system of a lot of toxins. Eventually, the Federal government would restart, likely as a shadow of its former self. An alternative scenario could play out that there is some type of combination economic collapse combined with Soviet-style takeover. It's possible that enough armed, angry people would simply dispose of the elected officials in Washington and start over with new elections. If that were to happen, the first order of business for the newly elected would be to zero-baseline the entire Federal government, most likely using a "specifically enumerated power in the Constitution" yardstick. In other words, the first bill to pass Congress would be to delete all Federal laws, regulations, bureaus, and departments. Period. Same with Executive Orders, all gone bye-bye. A complete reset. No matter what one's thoughts are on who is trying to accomplish what (since there are many groups all vying for control), the fact is we're not currently in a good position and are currently headed in the wrong direction. Rapidly. As to whether a slow slide into 3rd world status is more likely than a sudden calamity, that's very hard to say. Inertia is an amazing thing. The status quo can be maintained as long as the vast majority THINKS it's still working, even if in reality it isn't. There may be more and more desperate attempts to maintain the illusion of solvency (trillion dollar coin, for example) as we approach the "event horizon", so to speak, where the "event" is the tipping point where prevailing opinion is the recognition of insolvency. One could also conceive that there are two axes, one economic, and one freedom/personal liberty where there is a 3-D event horizon. Poke the bear either way and you get a particularly nasty response. There also may be some manner of feedback loop where stomping on liberty causes a large portion of the economy to go underground, exacerbating the economic woes and/or accelerating economic collapse causes the .gov to knee-jerk respond with draconian rules causing armed pushback and a complete loss of confidence in the .gov's ability to maintain a functioning economy. On the bright side, I saw this. Depending on what happens (or doesn't) in Congress, at least part of the actually productive, Made-in-the-USA economy will be looking up for the foreseeable future.  Quote "IF we have a major economic collapse," Planemaker, please try to understand. We have already had a BIGGER than MAJOR economic collapse!!!!!!!!! 
Our collapse ALREADY is of epic proportions! And? "We" know this already. As I said above, the "event horizon" is the tipping point at which the majority RECOGNIZE it. Until then it's all just hand wringing, angst, and in some cases meaningful preparation amongst the folks smart enough to see and correctly interpret the reality around them. It's presently being hidden from most and papered over, have you seen how it's being done??? It's been hidden for many years now. There is NO net possibility of EVER balancing the budget or pulling out of this economic hole -IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE. Our collapse likely results in a FUNDAMENTAL change in our .gov that will become FAR more authoritarian to keep the lid on and control of the masses and to direct resources to suit the folks in .gov policy decisions. Our country's policies are ALREADY being 'adjusted' to deal with this economic mess. Billions of rounds stocked, control of everything, extreme security everywhere, etc, ect... Much in the name of the ragheads. Tell me how all the decades of economic planning has worked out with these pointy headed folks running our economic and social policies the past 60 years??? Since no one will likely answer, ---It's been a frigggin DISASTER! Sure there might be areas without ROL but that will be the exception and .gov will eventually intervene prolly with resource denial and wrap up the starving unrulely pretty darn quick. The .gov employees will be well fed, well paid and will take steps to secure their families. Continuity of .gov is paramount to .gov. Oh, no doubt the eggheads who think they're just simply smarter than everyone else honestly believe that they can continue to juggle wide-open chain saws with the safeties wired shut and still be OK. That said, when it does all come crashing down around them, it will not be pretty. And, likely as not, there will be scapegoating on an unprecedented scale. Nonetheless, if we do pass the event horizon in a major way, it will come to pass that the .gov will cease to be relevant simply because the source of their power, ie control of the money, will have collapsed with the dollar. Unlike virtually every other country on the planet, in America we control the government, not the other way around. I have a strong suspicion that they will learn this lesson in spades in our lifetime. My only hope is that it is done peacefully, through the first 3 boxes and not thru the fourth. As for "fixing" the problem in the traditional sense, of course there's a solution, namely, that all the commie-pinko wealth-transfer tax-and-spend promises made by glad-handing politicians over the last decades is simply cut off. Sorry, no more SS, Medicare, Medicaid, SSDI, WIC, S8, SNAP/EBT/M-O-U-S-E. All that now is handled by the private sector or charity. Same with the Department of Education that's never granted a single diploma, a Department of Energy that's never generated a single kilowatt, and a Department of Homeland Security that has yet to secure a single border to our homeland. So, if you cut .gov spending by 60%, you CAN start retiring the debt ever so slowly. Ending the Federal Reserve will also end the insolvency Grand Canyon that continues to suck useful capital out of the economy and into a virtually bottomless pit of leveraged make-believe derivatives and market manipulations. None of the fixes are rocket surgery. They require balls and the willingness to be truthful to the public, both of which are on backorder just like Stag.
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:37:55 PM EST
[#4]
The "Consumer Economy" requiring "economic growth" is a mindset that's been brainwashed into us,
Is an easy to use tool of the Left to control and destroy us. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:44:52 PM EST
[#5]
Planemaker Quote:
"Nonetheless, if we do pass the event horizon in a major way, it will come to pass that the .gov will cease to be relevant simply because the source of their power, ie control of the money, will have collapsed with the dollar." No Plane, that's NOT what's likely to happen IMO. You give then far too little credit, considering the brilliant way they have "Engineered our Destruction" and the theft of our sovereignty, for so many decades. IMO there will be NO .gov collapse when the 'event horizon' happens... .Gov will only be STRENGTHENED. They will ALWAYS control the 'MONEY'. They know precisely what they are doing, and the gameplan has already been written likely needing only modest revisions as we move from crisis to crisis. Plus, the have DESIGNED and BUILT the tools to manipulate us, more so than any other .gov in history. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:45:27 PM EST
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Too late for anyone born in 2013... We are probably at least a generation too late to effect change with political action, and thus "delay" the inevitable collapse. But as we all know "The Great American Experiment" began to fail shortly after the ink dried on its founding documents. The collapse has just quickened over time. Now we are in the final chapter, the downhill slide. The mass and inertia is simply too great to stop through political action. I've concentrated my efforts on trying to politically block little bureaucratic movements, like fighting to stop the current mania to ban guns, I believe ultimately this effort will fail, but perhaps it can be delayed. We'll need guns when the psychopathic statist go on their final suicidal rampage. I'd say we're multiple generations too late, the Sheeple were being brainwashed in the 50's with Charlie the Tuna and mercury. We have been addicted to the flatscreen and comforts most kings never experienced. A lifestyle that is wholely unsustainable without commensurate PRODUCTIVITY and SACRIFICE. We've been led down carefully ENGINEERED PATH and we're too ignorant, self centered, and greedy to see where it leads. Our Normalcy Bias all the while hard at work. While I'm not an (capital "O") Objectivist I do agree with a great many of Rand's statements. One of those is the use of the word "sacrifice". I do not believe in "sacrifice". It is a word most often used by one person to manipulate another to hand over that which they value. I sacrifice my values for no one. Tyrants love the word, sacrifice. But I agree with your main idea. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:48:36 PM EST
[#7]
To me, sacrifice = hard work and living with a rational seriousness of purpose.
That most of us [present company excluded -I think] do not. Fixed it... |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:49:53 PM EST
[#8]
You know, I see the "Engineered Destruction" stuff, but I'm of the mind it's nothing more than greed run amok, then run further amok, with no plan but undeserved and continous pay raises. If that means sucking-up to the lazy - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the NRA - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the elderly - then so be it.
And so on ... ML |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:52:35 PM EST
[#9]
Quoted:
You know, I see the "Engineered Destruction" stuff, but I'm of the mind it's nothing more than greed run amok, then run further amok, with no plan but undeserved and continous pay raises. If that means sucking-up to the lazy - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the NRA - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the elderly - then so be it. And so on ... ML You need to take your analysis deeper, than just scratching the surface of the issue.
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Posted: 1/13/2013 3:57:21 PM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
You know, I see the "Engineered Destruction" stuff, but I'm of the mind it's nothing more than greed run amok, then run further amok, with no plan but undeserved and continous pay raises. If that means sucking-up to the lazy - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the NRA - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the elderly - then so be it. And so on ... ML Yep - Don't assume something is malice (or a multi generational nefarious plan) when it can be explained by simple greed, stupidity, and incompitance. Knowing a large number of government workers at the local, state, and national levels, stupidity and shortsightedness covers the situation pretty well. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 4:01:43 PM EST
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I see the "Engineered Destruction" stuff, but I'm of the mind it's nothing more than greed run amok, then run further amok, with no plan but undeserved and continous pay raises. If that means sucking-up to the lazy - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the NRA - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the elderly - then so be it. And so on ... ML Yep - Don't assume something is malice (or a multi generational nefarious plan) when it can be explained by simple greed, stupidity, and incompitance. Knowing a large number of government workers at the local, state, and national levels, stupidity and shortsightedness covers the situation pretty well. "Don't assume something is malice (or a multi generational nefarious plan) when it can be explained by simple greed, stupidity, and incompitance." Altho I wish upon careful analysis, this could be explained away as you suggest, it doesn't compute. 
The folks you describe are the Useful Idiots who do the bidding of their Masters for a paycheck and some perks, and a reward of enjoyment of authority. They react, they don't pull the strings in the large scale of things. They're mostly flunkys to one degree or another. They do what they're told, or they get put in a cubicle out of the way with a paycheck. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 4:04:14 PM EST
[#12]
Quoted: You know, I see the "Engineered Destruction" stuff, but I'm of the mind it's nothing more than greed run amok, then run further amok, with no plan but undeserved and continous pay raises. If that means sucking-up to the lazy - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the NRA - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the elderly - then so be it. And so on ... ML You're right of course. I do not see an "engineered" or "grand plan" for our destruction. It is "human nature" run amok, or more specifically our proclivity to believe that we can get, and are entitled to receive, something for nothing. Greed is a symptom, as are many negative aspects of our society, but they aren't the virus, the root cause.
Our founding fathers knew this. As have many great thinkers throughout history. Authoritarian statism is just...people. And as we all know, and the late Milton Friedman so eloquently put, "...there are no "angels" of our better nature". Mans "authority" over man, must be limited, ideally eliminated. The only healthy human interchange is voluntary. It cannot, or should not, be forced through the use of violence and violent coercion. If history has demonstrated one thing, it's that societies based on the initiation of violence and violent coercion do not last. They may last, even thrive, for a time, but they invariably collapse. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 4:09:57 PM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I see the "Engineered Destruction" stuff, but I'm of the mind it's nothing more than greed run amok, then run further amok, with no plan but undeserved and continous pay raises. If that means sucking-up to the lazy - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the NRA - then so be it, if that means sucking up to the elderly - then so be it. And so on ... ML You're right of course. I do not see an "engineered" or "grand plan" for our destruction. It is "human nature" run amok, or more specifically our propensity to believe and desire that we can get, and are entitled to receive, something for nothing. Greed is a symptom, as are many negative aspects of our society, but they aren't the virus, the root cause. Our founding fathers knew this. As have many great thinkers throughout history. Authoritarian statism is just...people. And as we all know, and the late Milton Friedman so eloquently put, "...there are no "angels" of our better nature". Mans "authority" over man, must be limited, ideally eliminated.
Yes, this is "Human Nature Run Amuck". I fear you have completely missed the other critical element---- That there is a well developed body of political folks who have engineered plans to capitalize on our human 'deficiency' to... ...Steal our country. They DEPEND on folks not being able to recognize this, as they did in other countries throughout history.
ETA, Stalin and his organization, etc. Failure of the folks in that day and age to RECOGNIZE WHAT WAS COMING was to their peril. History certainly does repeat. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 5:25:06 PM EST
[#14]
I don't think there is any one specific group or cause. There certainly are examples of power hungry meglomaniacs in today's politician corps. There are also examples of outright Communists (though they avoid this term like the plague). There are elitists who believe they are smarter than the rest of us. There are those I call "softies" that are genuinely interested in helping the poor/disadvantaged/etc. but who fail to realize that a societal responsibility does not equal a governmental tasking (in other words, they are generous with other peoples money). There are those that feel the "nanny" government must do something about "_____name-your-societal-ill-here_____". And, in truth, there are still an (unfortunately too few) who believe in the principles upon which this country was founded upon.
Note that even at the time of the founding fathers, there were those who generally believed people were of good character and should be left alone and those who felt that left to their own devices, people would follow their baser instincts. And indeed our Constitution was, for lack of a better term, a "trust but verify" approach to creating our country. As for our current situation, I personally do not believe that the Federal Government could brilliantly engineer the destruction of a compost pile, much less the greatest country on earth. It CAN, however, incrementally make it harder and harder for those things which helped establish our pre-eminent place on the planet to continue. If the .gov goes broke, per se, (e.g. they default on bond payments or renounce debt obligations), they lose control of the money. Of that there is no doubt. The flip side of that is if they lose control of the money (which would cause interest rates to skyrocket to counter hyperinflation), they go broke. And, when they lose control of the money, loss of control of everything else will follow shortly. It has happened in every country that has had a currency collapse. The one difference between what -may- happen here and what -has happened- in other countries is that there are enough armed citizens here to prevent a totalitarian takeover. That is why IMO there will -NEVER- be an outright ban and/or confiscation here like Britain or Australia (non-broke countries) or the former Soviet union, the former Weimar Republic, the former (you get the idea). Source of the problem aside, the real question becomes one of timing and consequences. Timing because those of us who are paying attention have a tiered approach to getting ready for what might happen and need to determine when to implement the various phases. Consequences because we need to figure out how to best transition thru the event horizon and help rebuild our economy and the freedoms/liberties which we have already lost (and may lose more of by then). 
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Posted: 1/13/2013 6:26:09 PM EST
[#15]
Back in the early 80s, there was the Austin Chalk oil boom in the Giddings area ... boom town, Houston, Austin, everybody was going balls out, Dom Perignon was overflowing ... then the party stopped.
I know of a big machine shop in Houston that was squeezed in the labor market and machinists were costing $25 hr or the shop next door would steal them for $25.25. Then the phone quit ringing. He had to reset the wage issue back to the new (old) conditions. He fired everybody ... then started slowly hiring back at half the money. It worked, he survived, everybody (but a select few) had jobs. I can't see us doing that with DC. 
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Posted: 1/13/2013 6:49:17 PM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
Back in the early 80s, there was the Austin Chalk oil boom in the Giddings area ... boom town, Houston, Austin, everybody was going balls out, Dom Perignon was overflowing ... then the party stopped. I know of a big machine shop in Houston that was squeezed in the labor market and machinists were costing $25 hr or the shop next door would steal them for $25.25. Then the phone quit ringing. He had to reset the wage issue back to the new (old) conditions. He fired everybody ... then started slowly hiring back at half the money. It worked, he survived, everybody (but a select few) had jobs. I can't see us doing that with DC. I'd like to see it done, but unfortunately our votes aren't doing the job. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 7:31:31 PM EST
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Check out what Levin has to say about what's happening. He starts out with gun rights but the entire discussion is equally applicable to the Engineered Destruction of the Economy Our Country. We need to come to terms that the left has INTENTIONALLY destroyed our productivity using every social and regulatory trick in the book and has been doing it for DECADES. Without PRODUCTIVITY, the ECONOMY is LOST! It's mathematically a CERTAINTY. Now we see the chickens coming home and many only focus on that narrow part, of a far greater issue. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/01/11/levin _i_can_barely_contain_my_fury_at_what_is_going_on_in_this_country.html You can't just blame the LEFT. There are plenty on both sides of the political spectrum in this country that have willfully and purposefully traded their autonomy (and responsibility) for the perception of "free" stuff and short-term stability. I have yet to see anyone - republican or democrat - give back their SSI, SS, medicare, medicaid, disability or any variety of "refundable" tax credits in the name of honor and integrity. In fact, many of the people on this board will say one thing and vote/act in opposition... because at the end of the day the typical person WANTS what the government is selling. Sure, some people don't intentionally cheat the system or file for bogus claims either (to be fair, there ARE honorable people among us who do The Right Thing, but they are the minority) - we have to remember that the vast majority of the US population gleefully embraced the promises of security and prosperity when faced with economic downturns and/or lean times (or just media-induced fear mongering): Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, progressive tax laws, political dynasties from a two-party system, etc. We cannot simply blame the "Left" when most of our friends and family embrace their "free stuff" policies and allow themselves to be seduced with class-warfare and divisive politics. We're simply suffering from the result of simple-minded human nature and cultural group-think. The first few words above define the problem. The problem is authoritarian statism. The Republican and Democrat parties are just two sides of the same statist coin. They complement one another. Think of them as the "daddy" and "mommy" of parental government, "nanny" government. If you examine the issues you'll find that "mom" and "dad" agree on statism. In fact, they agree on the vast majority of issues, they are 90% or more alike. Our country was founded on the principle of individual liberty, not authoritarian statism. That's why I care little if a person is "conservative" or "liberal". The principle I value isn't represented on that political axis. It's on another axis, which is ignored by the propaganda machine, it is the axis authoritarian vs. libertarian. The closer you get to the libertarian pole the less "conservative" and "liberal" matter. The closer to authoritarian pole, the more "conservative" and "liberal" matter. libertarian isn't a political party, its a philosophical movement, opposed to authoritarian statism. The Republican and Democrat political parties are a part of the same authoritarian philosophical movement. People really need to wake-up to this fact. 
You are on a roll!!! |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 8:14:18 PM EST
[#18]
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-13/citi-it-possible-we-will-get-technical-default-few-days
What the hell is a "technical default for a few days"? Do these people think there is such a thing as a "little bit pregnant"? Good grief, there are some people that are just devoid of any kind of sense. What do they think will happen if the US government stops paying its bills? Oh well, nothing really, they'll catch up when Congress sets things right. Really? Are you that stupid? Do you not think there won't be a few teensy repercussions from that like, oh I don't know, maybe instant downgrade to junk status? Or, how about the instant margin call for every financial firm on the planet since reneging on interest payments makes all the Treasuries that are pledged as collateral instantly become toilet paper? By the same token, there is precisely ZERO reason for a technical default unless the Ocommie-in-Chief wants there to be one. All that would be required is that virtually all Federal .gov offices go on furlough, all military contracts are suspended, all payments to .gov vendors are delayed, Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements are delayed, funding to states for extended unemployment is delayed, and tax refunds are "delayed" (including the "refunds" to people who paid no tax to begin with). That could delay a "default" for weeks if not months. Eventually all those bills would have to be paid, though. At this juncture, the total amount of "required" (i.e. "non-discretionary") payments exceeds total federal revenues. So, unless entitlements are addressed, there is no way to revert to a "pay as you go" to stay under the debt limit. It's that bad. Without a debt ceiling increase or a change in legally "required" payments, there will HAVE to be a default eventually. This is why the Redumblicans have all the leverage now, if they choose to use it. Or, they could let the Communists win again like they did in the fiscal fiasco, or Fifi, for short. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 9:22:48 PM EST
[#19]
Think mafia, but with press agents and speech writers. Quoted: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-13/citi-it-possible-we-will-get-technical-default-few-days What the hell is a "technical default for a few days"? Do these people think there is such a thing as a "little bit pregnant"? Good grief, there are some people that are just devoid of any kind of sense. What do they think will happen if the US government stops paying its bills? Oh well, nothing really, they'll catch up when Congress sets things right. Really? Are you that stupid? Do you not think there won't be a few teensy repercussions from that like, oh I don't know, maybe instant downgrade to junk status? Or, how about the instant margin call for every financial firm on the planet since reneging on interest payments makes all the Treasuries that are pledged as collateral instantly become toilet paper? By the same token, there is precisely ZERO reason for a technical default unless the Ocommie-in-Chief wants there to be one. All that would be required is that virtually all Federal .gov offices go on furlough, all military contracts are suspended, all payments to .gov vendors are delayed, Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements are delayed, funding to states for extended unemployment is delayed, and tax refunds are "delayed" (including the "refunds" to people who paid no tax to begin with). That could delay a "default" for weeks if not months. Eventually all those bills would have to be paid, though. At this juncture, the total amount of "required" (i.e. "non-discretionary") payments exceeds total federal revenues. So, unless entitlements are addressed, there is no way to revert to a "pay as you go" to stay under the debt limit. It's that bad. Without a debt ceiling increase or a change in legally "required" payments, there will HAVE to be a default eventually. This is why the Redumblicans have all the leverage now, if they choose to use it. Or, they could let the Communists win again like they did in the fiscal fiasco, or Fifi, for short. |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 10:28:26 PM EST
[#20]
I don't believe this is an accumulated accident. I believe people have been working on this for decades. Not in a single conspiracy but a more result of like minded people in high places. There is nothing more people depend on, than they are most ignorant about, than money. And I include myself in that. The golden rule, he who controls the gold makes the rules. Gold is a poor currency in the modern world simply due to scarcity. If this fiat system takes a dive they will still come out on top. I found this quote by Jefferson the other day that I think is still relevant today.
"Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not on the most wise depository of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist; and in every one where they are free to think, speak and write, they will declare themselves." The first , are the ones who run our monetary system. They will not roll over when it crashes. They will set up scapegoats, and may even be set up as scapegoats by the political class that took their money. I think that persons who think there would be a return to what makes sense and the Constitution are living a pipe dream. History shows war and tyranny are usually what happens. This is why I think they are so eager to dis-arm U.S. Even Obama's buddy Bill Ayers figured they would need to kill 25 million or so. I think they can keep the ponzie going for 5 years or more. I'm sure it will go past Obama. I think in the 20 to 25 trillion in debt will be when things start to have problems. Hyper inflation will have to start sometime around there because the interest will then be at a trillion dollars a year, at the current rate. If interest goes higher it could be sooner. Now I'm just a nobody, but Japan has ran its self at 200% of GDP for a while now. So who knows what will happen? The one thing I do know, is that math doesn't lie. Sooner or later it catches up with whoever thinks they are fooling it. Bernie Maddoff for example. The IMF and World banks could possibly just do a "reset" of currencies and go on like nothing happened. What do we have for currency, besides their fiat money that we can exchange? |
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Posted: 1/13/2013 10:31:06 PM EST
[#21]
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:18:09 PM EST
[#22]
I'll bet after New Yuk's disaster tonight, many most here will...
...STILL BE UNABLE TO FIGGER OUT WHUTZ UP with the Left!!! 
And remain Pollyannas with strong NORMALCY BIAS tendencies.
Unable to analyze what's coming our way too, too soon. 
And WHY! |
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:44:24 PM EST
[#23]
Quoted:
Back in the early 80s, there was the Austin Chalk oil boom in the Giddings area ... boom town, Houston, Austin, everybody was going balls out, Dom Perignon was overflowing ... then the party stopped. Boy this brings back memories. My uncle owned an oil hauling company during this. One week he was rich with an airplane and a private pilot. The next living with his mama. |
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Posted: 1/14/2013 11:04:23 PM EST
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Back in the early 80s, there was the Austin Chalk oil boom in the Giddings area ... boom town, Houston, Austin, everybody was going balls out, Dom Perignon was overflowing ... then the party stopped. Boy this brings back memories. My uncle owned an oil hauling company during this. One week he was rich with an airplane and a private pilot. The next living with his mama. Parties ALWAYS come to an end. Things were booming not so many years ago and I wanted a building that was under construction. The guy was making $$$ hand over fist too. Guess wut? He had lost EVERYTHING by a couple years later and is broke last I heard. People are F'in STUUPID. |
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:17:05 AM EST
[#25]
I think we now know what "bad" is.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 11:11:05 AM EST
[#26]
Quoted: I think we now know what "bad" is. IMO, this is merely part of the government's preparation for the "bad". |
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Posted: 1/15/2013 12:20:42 PM EST
[#27]
Germany repatriates all 374 tons of gold from France and some of its gold from the Fed Res right after Spaceman "To Infinity and Beyond!" Osama Bin Ber Nank announced that gold standard is not feasible.
 We love you Osama Bin Ber Nank. 
Link and another related article In the second article, it points out that the US and London are losing the trust of the world as depositories for gold. If you can't hold it, you don't own it. I can't find the link but the Fed Res said it would only give Germany back its gold at 50 tons a month. That will take over ten years. |
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Posted: 1/15/2013 3:05:43 PM EST
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The abandonment of Free-Market Principles translated into the Abandonment of OUR Constitution.Quoted: ...The question I've asked and can't get anyone to answer: When does Presumed Incompetence become defined as Treason? ... When the people sworn to uphold and defend don't do as directed by what they have sworn to uphold and defend and fail to pass a budget. Repeatedly. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Treason has already occurred by your definitions, so why do WE refuse to hold the Traitors Accountable?  Again...Their words and actions fail to Uphold their Oath to OUR Constitution. Cut through their blame game, the Facts Clearly show OUR Constitution has been abandoned; Did WE vote for that?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1G2Jyvpje8Par for the course... Well, apparently, they don't realize their actions are Treasonous Congress Struggles to Understand Constitution... ...'Oops'  |
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Posted: 1/15/2013 4:24:54 PM EST
[#29]
Quoted:
Germany repatriates all 374 tons of gold from France and some of its gold from the Fed Res right after Spaceman "To Infinity and Beyond!" Osama Bin Ber Nank announced that gold standard is not feasible. We love you Osama Bin Ber Nank.
Link and another related article In the second article, it points out that the US and London are losing the trust of the world as depositories for gold. If you can't hold it, you don't own it. I can't find the link but the Fed Res said it would only give Germany back its gold at 50 tons a month. That will take over ten years. Why would any country store their gold in another country? |
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Posted: 1/15/2013 7:23:38 PM EST
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Germany repatriates all 374 tons of gold from France and some of its gold from the Fed Res right after Spaceman "To Infinity and Beyond!" Osama Bin Ber Nank announced that gold standard is not feasible. We love you Osama Bin Ber Nank.
Link and another related article In the second article, it points out that the US and London are losing the trust of the world as depositories for gold. If you can't hold it, you don't own it. I can't find the link but the Fed Res said it would only give Germany back its gold at 50 tons a month. That will take over ten years. Why would any country store their gold in another country? Back when all money was backed by gold, they actually moved it from one pile to the other pile to settle debts and payments. But that ended under Nixon, so I have no idea why it is still there. |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 8:12:08 AM EST
[#31]
Quoted: Germany repatriates all 374 tons of gold from France and some of its gold from the Fed Res right after Spaceman "To Infinity and Beyond!" Osama Bin Ber Nank announced that gold standard is not feasible. We love you Osama Bin Ber Nank. Link and another related article In the second article, it points out that the US and London are losing the trust of the world as depositories for gold. If you can't hold it, you don't own it. I can't find the link but the Fed Res said it would only give Germany back its gold at 50 tons a month. That will take over ten years. Glenn is discussing this now . THAT aint gonna be pretty |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 9:51:10 AM EST
[#32]
Quoted:
Why would any country store their gold in another country? I think it was considered a good idea when 1/2 of Germany was under communist rule. |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:20:15 AM EST
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Germany repatriates all 374 tons of gold from France and some of its gold from the Fed Res right after Spaceman "To Infinity and Beyond!" Osama Bin Ber Nank announced that gold standard is not feasible. We love you Osama Bin Ber Nank.
Link and another related article In the second article, it points out that the US and London are losing the trust of the world as depositories for gold. If you can't hold it, you don't own it. I can't find the link but the Fed Res said it would only give Germany back its gold at 50 tons a month. That will take over ten years. Why would any country store their gold in another country? IMF location? |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:21:30 AM EST
[#34]
Beans and bullets.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:22:08 AM EST
[#35]
Quoted: Beans and bullets. ...and we've got a new member. |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:19:10 PM EST
[#36]
London and New York.
Would you trust a corrupt bankrupt socialist central bank co-party located in a country with a collapsing economy, society, and political system, with your gold? I thought so...
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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:24:46 PM EST
[#37]
Quoted: London and New York. Would you trust a corrupt bankrupt socialist central bank co-party with your gold? I thought so... When you are a mafia godfather, and you know from the inside all the corrupt crap you're doing behind the scenes, its hard to "trust" other godfather's that you know are doing the same kinds of things.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 4:53:33 PM EST
[#38]
Part of the reason they're recalling some of their gold was that they claimed they used distribution of their gold reserves as a pledge method for when they needed to do currency swaps. They're taking all their gold back from France because both France and Germany are under the Euro now so there's no advantage to storing any there. My thought on why they're retrieving their gold stores from Britain and the US is that (a) they don't trust either not to have their gold stores "re-hypothecated", leased, or otherwise used as collateral for the funny-money games Benny and the Ink Jets are playing, (b) if they have to withdraw from the Euro and go back to the Mark, they'll want something to back their currency with, even if it is only part way (everybody else's currency is completely fiat). They may have some intel that with China bulking up on gold, that there may be a future play for China to have a gold-back world reserve currency. That would be the end of the dollar overnight.
Or, it could be, like, you know, they actually want to make sure their gold is still their gold and hasn't been replaced by gold-coated tungsten as has been found in London.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 5:45:16 PM EST
[#39]
Meh. Since they started the last two world wars, it could be they know a thing or two about when the S is imminently ready to HTF. YMMV
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Posted: 1/17/2013 10:36:38 AM EST
[#40]
Zombie Banks are eating more than ever (surprisingly, stock prices continue to struggle?). This is where your ZIRP, Q/E, bailouts and deficit spending (in part) is going to - with the other trillion being direct transfer payments to individuals.
The music is still on, how many chairs are left? 
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Posted: 1/17/2013 8:14:48 PM EST
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Snip IM sent. I've been in Puerto Rico and disconnected most of the time since the 1st. Silver Eagle received today. Thanks Sherrick for being standup about this. |
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Posted: 1/17/2013 8:32:08 PM EST
[#42]
Quoted: Nice...Honorable People still exist.Quoted: Quoted: Snip IM sent. I've been in Puerto Rico and disconnected most of the time since the 1st. Silver Eagle received today. Thanks Sherrick for being standup about this. |
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Posted: 1/18/2013 2:38:36 PM EST
[#43]
Many of us can stop our doomy posting now, thankfully.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The U.S. economy is close to the final stages of recovery from the financial crisis, said outgoing Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Thursday. In terms of a basketball game, the U.S. is in the "early part of the fourth quarter" of recovery, Geithner said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. Geithner said Europe is lagging behind and is only in the "second quarter" of recovery. The Treasury Secretary, whose last day on the job is Jan. 25, said the economy "looks encouragingly resilient." "We've got much more diversity of strengths, from energy and high tech to manufacturing, than is true for any major economy, and people should find comfort and some optimism in that," he said. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/geithner-us-economy-close-to-full-recovery-2013-01-17 Yay! |
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Posted: 1/18/2013 3:20:26 PM EST
[#44]
Quoted: Many of us can stop our doomy posting now, thankfully. WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The U.S. economy is close to the final stages of recovery from the financial crisis, said outgoing Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Thursday. In terms of a basketball game, the U.S. is in the "early part of the fourth quarter" of recovery, Geithner said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. Geithner said Europe is lagging behind and is only in the "second quarter" of recovery. The Treasury Secretary, whose last day on the job is Jan. 25, said the economy "looks encouragingly resilient." "We've got much more diversity of strengths, from energy and high tech to manufacturing, than is true for any major economy, and people should find comfort and some optimism in that," he said. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/geithner-us-economy-close-to-full-recovery-2013-01-17 Yay! Great news TIM! And fantastic basketball game metaphor! Yes I to believe the game will end! One question, since the game's almost over, what's the real score? How bad are we losing? |
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Posted: 1/18/2013 7:25:34 PM EST
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snip IM sent. I've been in Puerto Rico and disconnected most of the time since the 1st. Silver Eagle received today. Thanks Sherrick for being standup about this. No problem. Thanks for being patient. |
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Posted: 1/18/2013 8:11:26 PM EST
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Many of us can stop our doomy posting now, thankfully. WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The U.S. economy is close to the final stages of recovery from the financial crisis, said outgoing Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Thursday. In terms of a basketball game, the U.S. is in the "early part of the fourth quarter" of recovery, Geithner said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. Geithner said Europe is lagging behind and is only in the "second quarter" of recovery. The Treasury Secretary, whose last day on the job is Jan. 25, said the economy "looks encouragingly resilient." "We've got much more diversity of strengths, from energy and high tech to manufacturing, than is true for any major economy, and people should find comfort and some optimism in that," he said. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/geithner-us-economy-close-to-full-recovery-2013-01-17 Yay! Great news TIM! And fantastic basketball game metaphor! Yes I to believe the game will end! One question, since the game's almost over, what's the real score? How bad are we losing? Really!? I think the fact that congress is yet again talking about suspending/upping the debt limit as well as recent talk of minting trillion dollar coins to 'settle' our debt that maybe we aren't in the fairy tale land that he thinks we are. But I guess that is to be expected from someone who didn't pay their 'fair share' and then was appointed to head the treasury dept.
If this is close to a full recovery then I dread the day when the economy goes in the crapper. |
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Posted: 1/18/2013 8:59:30 PM EST
[#47]
Since they seem to leave out more than a few of Uncle Sam's long-term obligations, wouldn't the debt limit now be nothing more than a defacto joke ... ?
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Posted: 1/18/2013 9:29:04 PM EST
[#48]
If folks are wondering abt my post of what Timmy said, it was sarcasm and...
...Timmy is full of shit. |
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Posted: 1/18/2013 11:25:26 PM EST
[#49]
Quoted: If folks are wondering abt my post of what Timmy said, it was sarcasm and... ...Timmy is full of shit. Timmy thinks debt limits are unneccesary.
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Posted: 1/19/2013 6:54:19 AM EST
[#50]
Quoted:
Since they seem to leave out more than a few of Uncle Sam's long-term obligations, wouldn't the debt limit now be nothing more than a defacto joke ... ? Of course it is a joke. Yearly deficits of 1.4 trillion, no spending cuts, people on the dole increasing, dole money is mandatory spending, and over $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities and increasing. The entire thing is a joke. They will do nothing to stop this train wreck. Use the time to get ready. There is no way out but a collapse of society, collapse of govt, and everything will be in short supply except violence as people scramble to survive as the JIT delivery system comes to a screeching halt. Nobody has the money, the entire system works on debt. |
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