I've heard of a few construction outfits that pay on Monday instead of Friday, just to help curb the borrowing and payday advances after they blow it all over the weekend.

Analysis: True.

I can resist anything.  Except temptation.

I tend to agree, but if one used the circumstances under which they're raised as what NOT to do, they can break free. I was lucky to have a jarring moment in my upbringing to prevent me from following in my parents footsteps.

My parents have always been impulse buyers, spending as fast as it comes in, and have had more things in debt collection than probably most "credit criminals." I grew up watching them go through many "boom bust cycles" where dad would get a good job, run up debt, lose job, have it all taken again.

The jarring moment for me, which still guides me to this day, was waking up one morning to the repo man taking our shiny new ATVs back.

To this day, my mom will have to work until she dies. She's 64 and a travel nurse so she's clearing 6 figures these days, but my dad spends HER money faster than it comes in. (He's been on SS disability for over a decade following a liver transplant). Because their credit is trash, he'll open up a shit credit card with a 300 dollar limit at maximum APR to buy something he wants NOW. He has a fuckin "Amish built" shed in his yard that he bought RENT TO OWN! When I did the math, it's something like 150% interest. And it is mostly his spending, but she's an enabler.

Now they have chickens, and what I call the Taj Mahal of chicken coops. These fuckin chickens live better than I remember living at some points in my childhood. We had a dirt floor kitchen at one point because we could only afford to live in a hunting cabin. These fuckin chickens have heated floors, classical music playing 24/7, automatic doors, etc. This thing has to be 4 figures at least. They won't tell me how they afforded it because they know I'll lecture them about the fact that they're going to die in debt.

I used that jarring moment in my childhood to vow to never be like my parents, and thankfully, I've broken free of the chains that bind my parents. Even though I know deep down I shouldn't have, I did pay off their mortgage which they've had since 1990 at something in the range of 10-15% interest. I just figured it would unburden me of having to buy them gifts for the rest of their lives.

My sister, unfortunately, has fallen into her upbringing. She's 35 or 36 with no savings to her name. She's also a travel nurse, so she's easily making 100k+, but she just refuses to get serious about saving for her future. I keep sending her calculations of the small changes she could make now and still be a millionaire in 30 years. It falls on deaf ears. She just posted a photo of another tattoo she just got, because this artist was "special."

Anyway, no one cares about me airing grievances with my families poor habits, the TLDR is that one can break free from that upbringing, but it may take a jarring moment that imprints itself to do so.

And to think he could have had as much fun with a $15 handle of vodka and some bottle rockets.

more like a GenX thread...since when are fireworks and alcohol hard assets?

You are wrong there. I don't desire nice things. Through out my 50 years I have gradually learned that nice things have no part in whether or not I am happy or content with life. They often do the opposite of bringing contentment.
When I was busting ass at a good job making way more money than I could spend I wasn't buying nice things, I had already learned the truth. I saved that money to buy my place so I wouldn't have to work hard anymore not to buy nice things that do fuck all for my happiness.

well, people are stupid


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remember you're always someone else's idiot

Yep, I have never owned a new vehicle despite the ability for many years. The most I have paid for a truck is $32k ( used ). Im sure they will change with prices they way they are now, but unless you are making $200k+ I just cant see the justification for it. ( maybe if its for business, but I dont buy brand new machines either ).

Our society and government enable this bullshit.  Fucked up priorities and wanting to impress strangers.......

People wearing $300 jeans, $500 shoes, driving a Lexus, and smoking $8 a pack cigarettes, but don't actually have a pot to piss in.  

I worked with a guy that went out and bought whatever he wanted. When it was time to pay his mortgage, I would buy his toys from him for pennies on the dollar.  Guns, bows, treestands, TVs, you name it.  Still have a bunch of the stuff to this day.

A guy I currently work with was in debt up to his eyeballs.  Huge house, new car every two years, season passes to multiple amusement parks, fancy vacations multiple times a year....He finally knocked the shit off and paid off all of his debt.  His now EX-wife ran them back up to almost $30K in debt within 6 months.  Fuck that!

I didn't mean fancy things, I meant nice things.

You said you worked hard to buy your place, there is a reason you bought it I'm sure. You probably really enjoy it there wanted to own it outright.

Do you not buy well made tools and clothes when needed?

My place isn't fancy, but it's comfortable, and it's well placed. Same with my shop, it's not large, but it's functional. They are nice things, and worth working for.

I wish I could live a little more like that.

I wonder how many smart people decided they could only afford two children, and sent their daughters to college - or how many decided they couldn't afford children at all.

Thats a real man right there. ^

More often than not, yes, being poor/in debt is a choice. If things go sideways, those that want to not continue to be poor find ways to improve their situation.

We have the entitlement/“I wants it now!” mentality running through the US plus the heavy advertising that pushes thoughtless consumption.

“be the envy of your friends…get the new widget first!”

They also learn that having more us never enough and they keep going in debt.

Most Americans do not see the long game nor understand how to truly build wealth .

I still own my 1995 Nissan Pathfinder SE. The fuel economy isn't that great. It gets 19-20 mpg and I that's with all new filters, plugs, rotor and cap. It has a fuel tank the size of a kidney bean so I have to fill up every 200-250 miles, 15 gallons. It's reliable but it's retired as my primary driver after 20 years of service, it's my grocery getter now.

We stopped after two and both got snipped.

At the time we couldn't afford three, and our house only has 3 bedrooms.

I told the urologist when he asked me if I really wanted to give up a chance of having more children (I was 29) that if I really felt I wanted another in the future, we would consider adoption. Seems like there is enough children that need a home that it would be reasonable.

Plenty of people around here just keep cranking them out though, and they don't make any more money than we do. I have no idea how they afford it.

4 or 6 cylinder?

I had this truck, with the 4 cylinder. It was like impossible to run out of gas. That thing was so cool.

Whole lot of them walking around in public. Millions upon millions.
Edit to add: Had a guy at work like that years ago. He would sell his vacation check right after New Years. Used to carpool with 4 other guys, not real bright guy but likeable.
One day on their way into work he had a heart attack. The carpool dropped him off at the hospital and proceeded to work. He died at the hospital. Sad life, he was in his early 40's.

Wait till they realize that 250/month was a big part of their tax refund paid out through the year. And they already blew it.

I have an 07 Ranger that is paid for.....hardly ever drive it because it gets around 19 mpg....instead I drive a Nissan Versa, also paid for, it gets 40 mpg.

Is that your new Bronco in your avatar?

As stupid as that is, how much does he make? THAT has just as much to do with his status as a "poor" than poor impulse control.

If you can afford $50 a month every month that's 5 years of debt. 50x60=$3k
6012=5

Thats another thing people get spun up about. Paying for their kids college. Its another “if I could do that AND meet my retirement goals” I would, but I can’t.

I’ve never felt it was my duty to pay for my kids college, but I will help as much as possible with whatever they chose to do. Hopefully not college unless necessary.

My parents had a little money set aside for me which was a pleasant surprise, but I still had to take out 40k in loans.

Fireworks and booz??? Nah… ammo and a suppressor??? Yes.

OP is right.

People have very poor impulse control. I know I'm guilty of it, and I do end up buying shit I end up not needing more often than I'd like. It really does take some discipline not to click "buy it now" on Amazon.

The good thing is I don't do it so much that I screw myself out of my other financial responsibilities, and enough that I can pay off anything relatively quickly.

I'm trying to get in the habit of waiting a day or two, then thinking "do I really need this thing?"

We’ve seen people denied credit for a $450/mo house payment because they were in debt with a $700/mo car payment.

I loved my my mother dearly (may she RIP) but she was an awful money manager. Constantly late or failing to pay bills and bouncing checks all over town. As a kid we had vehicle repossessed, power shut off, threatened foreclosures, and tax sales. I vowed I would never be like that and with the help of a good woman I can proudly say I have never been late, missed a payment or bounced a check.

I had related my mothers financial failures to my wife early in our marriage but I could tell she thought I was exaggerating. The truth hit home when we visited my parents for the first time after getting married. I took three weeks leave and we headed to NV from WA. My wife had gathered all our bills that would be due while we were away in preparation of paying them when due. Payday rolled around and we sat in my mothers kitchen writing checks (pre-internet) and stuffing envelopes. My mother came in and asked "what are you doing?" "Paying bills" my wife replied. My mother looks at her incredulously and said "you can take a vacation and pay bills?" My wife replied "yes we saved money to take vacation, don't you?" My mother replied "no, I decide what bills are not important and use that money to take vacation."

An hour a day is expensive. Roughly $1500 of my time over a month...

Do you just not like working for someone else? With .mil experience you can probably find an $80k/yr job with a bit of effort. Add in ~6k/yr from the NG and after taxes you're taking home an extra $40k/yr.

Employers and suppliers I have played spreadsheet games with over the years, formerly in food service, retail and logistics. It's an incendiary blanket statement that doesn't apply everywhere, of course, but it's frightening experiencing greedy MBA types and six sigma cultists pushing cash-poor short-sighted JIT crap for margin today at the expense of a functioning business tomorrow.


Just extrapolating the concept beyond the individual poors is all

In many cases yes this is exactly true. People are poor because they take having a new phone every year or more (or even more frequent because they treat their technology like it’s unbreakable), think all the streaming services and home delivery of not-inexpensive meals and meal kits are a Basic Human Right, lease vehicles they really cannot afford (or worse, Uber everywhere)… To say nothing of expensive clothing, makeup, spa days, etc.

It’s appalling to those of us who actually care about our money and spend it wisely.

If my kids choose a good program, and complete it, I will help them out afterwards.

It's their burden though, not mine. My job is to encourage them to choose a path that will actually pay out. If they are going to go to college for something stupid, it's my job to tell them it's a massive waste of time and money.

Smart people have no problem affording kids.

.
EE ratings aren't a reliable indicator of anything beyond someone had x number of deals go good/bad where the other guy bothered to leave a plus or minus
.

I see it all the time at work and I don't really know how to relate.


I grew up in a poorer family. That's what you get raising a family on just a carpenter's salary. We had a little 2/1 house on the rougher side of town that was an REO from the bank, compact foreign economy car in the drive, and a work van dad bought second hand from a general contractor friend. Most of our stuff was bought used and when we updated it was always 2+ generations behind. I think my dad still has an Iphone 5. No vacations except for the yearly family reunion and maybe a hunting trip.

It wasn't a glamorous life, but I don't remember ever wanting for anything important. Even though the house was bought "as is" the interior was immaculate once dad remodeled it.  We never missed a bill or had anything repo'd. There wasn't any financial stress since we never carried any debt except for the house and econobox.

My parents didn't know how to create wealth though. That was their problem. Any excess money just went into a savings account. Now they're dependent on a dad's pension and SS.

Had an apprentice 6 years ago(right before Trump got elected) and he couldn't understand why he was late on payments for his power bill.

"Damn dude, you go to the gas station at break and lunch spending anywhere from $8-12 each trip.  Are you stopping for breakfast too?"

He inherited a couple million from a never married uncle that passed away from cancer about a year back.

I tried to tell him how to invest or set up a trust so he doesn't burn through it.  I don't hear from him too much anymore (money windfalls can change people) but I heard he was having continued marriage issues and some guys from work saw him driving a new convertible camaro 2-3 months back.

Hopfully he can learn to manage things.  

When my Nephew turned 18, my dad gave him like $12k he had been saving for him since birth, along with classes that had something to do with Ramsey (not sure exactly what these classes were).

Now my nephew is 22. He has his own place, $30k in the bank and works and goes to college. Whatever Ramsey taught him fucking worked.

$1500/hr for you time?! Wtf?!

He seems completely content with his lifestyle.

That’s our stance as well

one could argue employing such people is a poor decision

My parents have been budgeting with an envelope system for decades. Wife and I have been doing the envelopes since we started our budget. It’s too easy.

Some truth to this. Many inmates have the same mentality on this and other things.  We recognize this in corrections and have instituted programs that deal with this over the past few years with some success.  

We call it moral recognition therapy with sub programs to deal with peoples thinking patterns.  

Have better success than we thought when we implemented the programs. We were hoping for a 5-10 percent success rate and have been having a 28-35 percent success rate on changing bad thinking habits.  

Even some hard core staff who thought these programs were a waste a time have commented that these programs actually work after seeing them in place over several years.

Nothing wrong with blowing all your money on fireworks and booze.

Dude.... I'm in the wrong business.

Please tell me this is gross not net so I can feel less shitty about myself.

No im poorer because the government steals my money

I would also like to know because that's like 3,120,000 a year.

My mom lives in a trailer park. She borrows money from both my brother and me constantly. She just "saved up" enough money to buy a $1200 dog and take the road trip to Oregon, including hotel rooms, to pick it up. She's the most manipulative human I've ever met.

holy fuck it's real

I paid cash for my place because it was land, which I suppose qualifies as a nice thing to me.
My house is a single wide because that is all I need, 4 walls and a roof. Anything more than that will mean less happiness, as I learned living in my stick built house, it felt like a fucking anchor.
My place I can do what ever I want with it to make into what I want and need without giving one fuck about market value or what a future buyer will find acceptable. There is very little invested so I don't have to care(obviously I care to maintain it).

Yes, that is true about buying quality, but that's just so I don't have to buy something twice and ending up costing more in the long run. Good enough for my needs is all I need, nice doesn't factor in. Sometimes Harbor Freight tools will work sometimes higher quality is needed, Snap-On is never required.

Lol, full disclosure: If I listed my reloading and shooting related equipment you would call me a fucking liar. But all that nice, unneeded shit is for efficiency, saving time and precision. I don't own or want anything Dillon so there's that.

I don't think most prostitutes work full-time