You can take one rifle concept back to 1930 and present to the War Department, what do you choose? - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - You can take one rifle concept back to 1930 and present to the War Department, what do you choose? (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:33:57 PM EDT

No detailed plans but an exploded diagram and an understanding of how it works. Something like this:

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:35:31 PM EDT

[#1]

AK. Easier to make lots of them in 1930.

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:41:24 PM EDT

[#2]

Carl Gustav recoiless rifle.

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:41:38 PM EDT

[#3]

War Dept procurement heads so far in ass, you could have given them man-portable phased plasma rifles, in the 40 watt range, including tech support, lifetime warranty and unit cost under $100... they'd have laughed in your face because it wasn't .30 caliber, and ammunition limited.

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:42:55 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Carl Gustav recoiless rifle.

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This.

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:44:29 PM EDT

[#5]

fn mag

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:47:10 PM EDT

[#6]

G3 or FAL
Either one will do the job

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:47:13 PM EDT

[#7]

SCAR 16/17

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:47:25 PM EDT

[#8]

DI AR-15.

How is this even a question?

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:48:11 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
War Dept procurement heads so far in ass, you could have given them man-portable phased plasma rifles, in the 40 watt range, including tech support, lifetime warranty and unit cost under $100... they'd have laughed in your face because it wasn't .30 caliber, and ammunition limited.

View Quote

This

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:48:17 PM EDT

[#10]

RPG-7, Carl Gustav, or some sort of man portable explosive similar.

Anything explosive, simple, (reasonably) accurate, and lightweight would've made the largest differences.

Small arms are sweet, but stuff that knocks out armor, and buildings makes more sense to me in an infantry context.

In terms of infantry rifles though: MAS 49/56.

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:48:47 PM EDT

[#11]

FAL.

The technology existed to make it and crank it out by the 30's; the Soviets couldn't make the original folded sheet metal AK work until the mid 50s but the FAL with it's machined receiver would have been a drop-in-and-go solution for the machinery and technology of the era.

The more interesting argument would have been "What caliber do you bring back to 1930 and try to convince them to use"

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:49:54 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
DI AR-15.

How is this even a question?

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You could have heard them laughing at you from two blocks away after they threw you out for wasting their time with such a stupid idea.

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:51:59 PM EDT

[#13]

RPG-7 yes not a rifle but how many brave young men could have been saved having rpg-7s in WW2 in both theaters

barrett M82 would be next

Posted: 11/5/2017 4:55:33 PM EDT

[#14]

M82A1 and a Leupold Mk4

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:01:03 PM EDT

[#15]

Considering the manufacturing technology available in 1930, I'd probably say AK47.

Going back in time with the best rifle design ever doesn't mean shit if they can't be mass produced.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:06:31 PM EDT

[#16]

Get the M1 Carbine up and running so you've got the pdw/ assault rifle game up and running before 1939. Push 30rnd mags from the outset. While you're being granted favors, get the mag mounted on top of the BAR and increased to 30rnd capacity.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:10:18 PM EDT

[#17]

No magical design could have overridden the prevailing rule of the 1930s: "Gas ports shall not be drilled in barrels."

Even the vaunted M1 Garand had to suffer years for this to resolve.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:11:55 PM EDT

[#18]

With regards to infantry rifles, I think the FAL is a good choice, but I think the MAS 49/56 would've stood a better chance of getting adopted. War Dept. would've liked the rifle grenade mounting solution, the stripper clip ability, detachable magazines (if needed), and that you could probably pretty easily convert it to 30.06.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:12:05 PM EDT

[#19]

Would never work. You would be outside of the chain of corruption. Won't give you the time of day.

I would bring Back AK. It's a very capable system and easy to make w/ out small tolerances.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:16:53 PM EDT

[#20]

Multiple warhead hydrogen nuke, like the Soviet Satan system. F*ck all this groundfighting. All your capitol are belong to us. All your army are belong to us. All your navy are belong to us.

It can only be a small arm? OK, stamped AK-47 then.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:17:09 PM EDT

[#21]

Shuff modified Garand in .260 Remington.

Mag fed Mini-G.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:20:11 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Get the M1 Carbine up and running so you've got the pdw/ assault rifle game up and running before 1939. Push 30rnd mags from the outset. While you're being granted favors, get the mag mounted on top of the BAR and increased to 30rnd capacity.

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While your at it tweak it to go up over about 2200 fps for good measure.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:23:30 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
You could have heard them laughing at you from two blocks away after they threw you out for wasting their time with such a stupid idea.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
DI AR-15.

How is this even a question?

You could have heard them laughing at you from two blocks away after they threw you out for wasting their time with such a stupid idea.

I am very persuasive and already know the arguments.

I like my chances.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:25:28 PM EDT

[#24]

If I've got a rifle and a time machine, I'm going to Jekyll Island a few years prior...

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:27:03 PM EDT

[#25]

M-16.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:29:42 PM EDT

[#26]

Hmm I would bring the M1A.

They were close to having Garands and the detachable mags would have been nice.

It could also be scaled down to a mini 14 pretty easily.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:35:44 PM EDT

[#27]

They already had it. Garand in 276 Pederson. Adding a detachable magazine would have been excellent. They didn't have the propellant technology for the modern cartridges.

With the caliber established, a more modern form factor ala the StG45 could have been developed during the war years as an alternative to the M1 carbine. When they tried to reverse engineer the MG42, downsizing it to 276 would have made the first SAW which IMO, would have been devastating in the Pacific as well as Korea and into Vietnam.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:36:04 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
If I've got a rifle and a time machine, I'm going to Jekyll Island a few years prior...

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Go back further and get Robspierre. Maybe even further with Rousseau. Nip that commie shit in the bud.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:44:41 PM EDT

[#29]

Whatever you present had better be chambered in .30-06, because that's all that's getting built.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:46:21 PM EDT

[#30]

Stoner LMG or M249.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:48:25 PM EDT

[#31]

Magazine on the Garand. BAR mags would probably work. Just skipped to the M-14

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:50:10 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Carl Gustav recoiless rifle.

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Will 1930s level of technology allow for its construction? I thought there was some microcircutry in the launcher?

I'd have brought them plans for improvements to bomb sights, torpedoes, and aircraft. For infantry, I'll bring them the claymore mine.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:50:44 PM EDT

[#33]

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:52:49 PM EDT

[#34]

Attached File

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:54:10 PM EDT

[#35]

skip a step, and step on John Garand's toes.........take the plans for the M14 back in time. It would not be too bizarre for the DoD to consider, they were already familiar with detachable mags on rifles, consider the B. A. R., it could have been produced to fire the '03 cartridge, and it had a wood stock which would have made the procuring department comfortable.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:56:06 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Will 1930s level of technology allow for its construction? I thought there was some microcircutry in the launcher?

I'd have brought them plans for improvements to bomb sights, torpedoes, and aircraft. For infantry, I'll bring them the claymore mine.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Carl Gustav recoiless rifle.

Will 1930s level of technology allow for its construction? I thought there was some microcircutry in the launcher?

I'd have brought them plans for improvements to bomb sights, torpedoes, and aircraft. For infantry, I'll bring them the claymore mine.

The M48 version of the CG should be doable for them.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:56:10 PM EDT

[#37]

Swedish K.

Posted: 11/5/2017 5:56:16 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
War Dept procurement heads so far in ass, you could have given them man-portable phased plasma rifles, in the 40 watt range, including tech support, lifetime warranty and unit cost under $100... they'd have laughed in your face because it wasn't .30 caliber, and ammunition limited.

View Quote

True dat. Procurement was headed up by Douglas MacArthur. Since he was always right about everything, unless you brought him something in 30-06 he did not want to hear about it. The Garand was originally a .270 caliber and he made them redesign it to 30-06.

Posted: 11/5/2017 6:01:10 PM EDT

[#39]

MK48 with the time period mandatory wood furniture.

Posted: 11/5/2017 6:03:59 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Magazine on the Garand. BAR mags would probably work. Just skipped to the M-14

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While not in 1930, there were M1 concepts made that were select fire and BAR magazine fed (well, I guess "WAR" magazine fed). Not adopted obviously I believe that the original design allowed for both of these, but that the Ordinance Dept specified semi auto and internal magazine due to existing manual of arms.

I would vote CG. I think that the Ordinance Dept would have voted against anything not 30 cal or anything fully automatic. They had the BAR at the time, and it was not issued at widely as many soldiers requested. Even the introduction of the m20 bazooka would have helped, but the wide variety of CG ammo would have changed the war. Just think of a few hundred CG's storming the beaches with thermobaric charges, or all of the guys defenseless against armor.

The only other thing I could think of would be some sort of A2A rocket or guided munitions, which wouldn't have had the technology to support them at the time.

Posted: 11/5/2017 6:08:15 PM EDT

[#41]

The M60 of course.

Sure as shit more effective than the BAR was in ww2

Posted: 11/5/2017 6:08:33 PM EDT

[#42]

Modularity along the lines of the AR-15/M-16, but given the military's mindest of the the day, in 7.62 of course.

Posted: 11/5/2017 6:15:19 PM EDT

[#43]

M14 in 30/06 and the FN MAG

Posted: 11/5/2017 7:17:16 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'd have brought them plans for improvements to bomb sights, torpedoes, and aircraft. For infantry, I'll bring them the claymore mine.

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If you're talking about things other than rifles.....

Get all the open source material you can find on the atomic bomb, put it in a sealed box with the following instructions:

DO NOT OPEN
On Nov 1, 1939, call a meeting of the following individuals:
Leo Szilard
Enrico Fermi
Hans Bethe
John von Neumann
Philip Abelson
Otto Frisch
Arthur Compton
Ernest Lawrence
Robert Oppenheimer
...and present this box.

Nuke the Germans while they're in the middle of invading the USSR, and the cold war (and spread of communism) never happens.

Posted: 11/5/2017 7:45:11 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
War Dept procurement heads so far in ass, you could have given them man-portable phased plasma rifles, in the 40 watt range, including tech support, lifetime warranty and unit cost under $100... they'd have laughed in your face because it wasn't .30 caliber, and ammunition limited.

View Quote

Sadly, this.

Posted: 11/5/2017 7:50:04 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you're talking about things other than rifles.....

Get all the open source material you can find on the atomic bomb, put it in a sealed box with the following instructions:

DO NOT OPEN
On Nov 1, 1939, call a meeting of the following individuals:
Leo Szilard
Enrico Fermi
Hans Bethe
John von Neumann
Philip Abelson
Otto Frisch
Arthur Compton
Ernest Lawrence
Robert Oppenheimer
...and present this box.

Nuke the Germans while they're in the middle of invading the USSR, and the cold war (and spread of communism) never happens.

View Quote

Too many unintended consequences in that scenario