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Posted: 11/6/2017 5:33:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not sure about the RPG -7 idea. The life span of the poor bastard carrying one of these with a back pack full of rockets has got to be short. Like, real short. Think about it: a dozen dudes coming at you armed with AK’s and maybe PKM or two plus one asshole with a rocket launcher. Who do you shoot first? |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 5:41:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Dedicated man portable recoilless rifles in the rifle squads of an assault company would have completely changed the manner in which the US Army or Marine Corps conducted its assaults.
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Posted: 11/6/2017 5:42:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RPG-7, Carl Gustav, or some sort of man portable explosive similar. Anything explosive, simple, (reasonably) accurate, and lightweight would've made the largest differences. Small arms are sweet, but stuff that knocks out armor, and buildings makes more sense to me in an infantry context. In terms of infantry rifles though: MAS 49/56. It would have outdone every other infantry-issued weapon of the day. |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 6:20:03 PM EDT
[#4]
For an infantry rifle, I would try and convince them to build a cross between an AR15, and the new Mutant rifle that shoots 7.62x39 because of the stronger bolt and barrel extension of the Mutant...and I would have the rifle shoot a cartridge similar to the 6.5 Grendel. More accurate and harder hitting at longer ranges than the 5.56x45, with less recoil than the 7.62x39.
With that said, a smaller Carl Gustav recoilless rifle makes a lot of sense for attacking armor and buildings. I suppose it could be argued that a 40mm grenade launcher is a "rifle" as the bore does have some rifling in it. Without more information about the mission the weapon would be expected to fulfill, there are too many good possibilities. |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 7:49:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Ultimax 100, but with wood furniture http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/33/U100_Mk3_Stock.jpg/450px-U100_Mk3_Stock.jpg Chambered in a modified .30 carbine using a Zinc diecast 85gr Spitzer projectile at 2200fps. This would further reduce recoil, improve penetration, and give a projectile that would more rapidly tumble. Cartridge weight would be 11 grams, a bit less then 5.56, and less then 1/2 the weight of .45 acp or .30-06. Zinc die cast was a popular method of manufacturing toys at the time, and would allow simple mass production of lightweight projectiles. The round would be effective to 200 yards. http://www.oldammo.com/30CarbProofB.JPG The Ultimax would serve to replace 3 weapons - the Thompson, the BAR, and the M1 carbine. With it's constant recoil full auto, and extended capacity magazines (100rd drums and 45rd box magazines) it would offer superior firepower and full auto accuracy then any individual weapon used in the war. It would be the ideal weapon for fighting in the Pacific, as well as urban combat and assaulting positions in Europe. |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 8:45:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Kevlar. They were close to it already.
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Posted: 11/6/2017 8:56:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
skip a step, and step on John Garand's toes.........take the plans for the M14 back in time. It would not be too bizarre for the DoD to consider, they were already familiar with detachable mags on rifles, consider the B. A. R., it could have been produced to fire the '03 cartridge, and it had a wood stock which would have made the procuring department comfortable. |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:06:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dedicated man portable recoilless rifles in the rifle squads of an assault company would have completely changed the manner in which the US Army or Marine Corps conducted its assaults. in Korea as seen here. 
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:08:51 PM EDT
[#9]
W88.
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:18:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The US Army had man portable recoilless rifles during World War II, and they proved very effective. They later proved effective in Korea as seen here. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Soldier-firing-M18A1-recoilless-rifle-korea.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dedicated man portable recoilless rifles in the rifle squads of an assault company would have completely changed the manner in which the US Army or Marine Corps conducted its assaults. in Korea as seen here. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Soldier-firing-M18A1-recoilless-rifle-korea.jpg |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:20:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M1 was supposed to be chambered in a 270 cartridge. But Macarthur said no because we had enough 30-06 to fight 6-12 months at WWI levels. According to a strict interpretation of the OP, as it seems has so far been noted, we would need to also take manufacturing capabilities of the time into consideration. So no stamped receiver guns, the tech wasn’t there yet. So we need .30-06 in a gun that could have been made in the ‘30s, which brings us back full circle to the M1 IMHO. |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:24:41 PM EDT
[#12]
I'd take them an FN P90 with a red dot sight. They'd shit themselves.
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:39:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, did not know that, always thought the recoilless rifle missed combat in WW2. I know it and the super bazooka were loved for infantry combat in Korea for bunker busting HE work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dedicated man portable recoilless rifles in the rifle squads of an assault company would have completely changed the manner in which the US Army or Marine Corps conducted its assaults. in Korea as seen here. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Soldier-firing-M18A1-recoilless-rifle-korea.jpg Did you know there was a 1942 model? check this out!!  Carl Gustav m/42: A 20mm Recoilless Antitank Rifle |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 9:46:31 PM EDT
[#14]
modern BODY ARMOR
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Posted: 11/7/2017 12:30:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to a strict interpretation of the OP, as it seems has so far been noted, we would need to also take manufacturing capabilities of the time into consideration. So no stamped receiver guns, the tech wasn’t there yet. Here's a Rickenbacker 1930s Model 59 stamped sheet steel guitar - if they could make this, they should be able to make a basic stamped steel box receiver: .jpg)
And of course, the 1942 Greese Gun was almost entirely stamped sheet metal: 
What's also interesting is that Bakelite plastic manufacturing was also pretty advanced by the 1930's - here's a 1930's era hair dryer. So it wouldn't be out of line to expect the ability to form rifle furniture and magazines: 
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Posted: 11/7/2017 12:42:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Let's say we know ahead of time that the rifle has to be a bolt action. I would take a removable box magazine Savage or similar rifle with a barrel nut in a laminated stock with at least a partial bedding block. The stock is an Anschutz style and includes a rail for a small handstop on the sling and a place to install a bipod when desired. Sight choices will be a hoot.
A large frame AR type would be more fun to sell to a bunch of old generals that still want to ride horses and are suspicious of rifled barrels, spitzer bullets, and smokeless gunpowder. Don't allow them to deny the truth. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 12:53:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's definitely an interesting answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Ultimax 100, but with wood furniture http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/33/U100_Mk3_Stock.jpg/450px-U100_Mk3_Stock.jpg Chambered in a modified .30 carbine using a Zinc diecast 85gr Spitzer projectile at 2200fps. This would further reduce recoil, improve penetration, and give a projectile that would more rapidly tumble. Cartridge weight would be 11 grams, a bit less then 5.56, and less then 1/2 the weight of .45 acp or .30-06. Zinc die cast was a popular method of manufacturing toys at the time, and would allow simple mass production of lightweight projectiles. The round would be effective to 200 yards. http://www.oldammo.com/30CarbProofB.JPG The Ultimax would serve to replace 3 weapons - the Thompson, the BAR, and the M1 carbine. With it's constant recoil full auto, and extended capacity magazines (100rd drums and 45rd box magazines) it would offer superior firepower and full auto accuracy then any individual weapon used in the war. It would be the ideal weapon for fighting in the Pacific, as well as urban combat and assaulting positions in Europe. 1. It could have been manufactured at the time 2. It provides a unique and tremendous capability that was lacking in the War (a one man portable base of fire suitable for both defense and the assault. 3. I could have sold it to the War Department #3 is really the ticket. The War department in the 1930's was coming from a crop of WW1 veterans, whose combat experience involved trench warfare. And so they were looking for basically two types of weapons - a long range, full power rifle suitable for shooting hundreds of yards across no mans land, and close quarters "trench brooms" suitable for the assault. I think if I had showed up with FAL - they would have said, "eh, that's pretty cool, but we don't need high capacity magazines for long range fire, and it will encourage soldiers to waste ammo. And since it's uncontrollable in full auto, it doesn't work as well in that role as the BAR." But the Ultimax - any WW1 vet who had to go over the top, storm across no mans land, and then clear trenches would see the utility of a 45-100rd, controllable bullet hose. This would have been further impressed upon their minds by the extensive use of the Thompson SMG by both sides of the law during the Roaring Twenties. So, they love the Thompson, and now here's a gun that weighs the same, but has 2x the capacity, 3x the range and power, with ammo that weighs 1/2 as much and with 1/4 the recoil. I'd have been rich 
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Posted: 11/7/2017 1:47:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
modern BODY ARMOR Body armor is one thing when you’re a motorized or mechanized infantry dude working a neighborhood and trying to survive sniper attacks, IEDs, and quick ambushes. But marching across countries, storming beaches, and maneuvering under fire from an opposing army? I’m not sure I’d want that 40+ pounds of extra weight on my body. If your goal is to reduce the casualty count, improving the “golden hour” response time is probably the best way to do that. Medical advances have been huge, but I think no other development has played a bigger role than transport helicopters. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 1:59:32 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 11/7/2017 2:03:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
No detailed plans but an exploded diagram and an understanding of how it works. Something like this: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Pub/schematic/SKS_Type45_schem.jpg Actually I agree this would be the best choice. An AK *would* be better, but the procurement powers of the time would be too short-sighted to accept it. They didn’t even want a detachable mag for the Garand. 
The hinged bayonet probably would’ve sold them on the SKS 
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Posted: 11/7/2017 2:09:26 AM EDT
[#21]
AK 47
The people in charge would be too old and dumb to realize how useful it would be though. They'd wonder why it wasn't 30-06
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Posted: 11/7/2017 2:27:35 AM EDT
[#22]
30-06 VEPR
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Posted: 11/7/2017 4:18:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have mixed feelings about that one. Body armor is one thing when you’re a motorized or mechanized infantry dude working a neighborhood and trying to survive sniper attacks, IEDs, and quick ambushes. But marching across countries, storming beaches, and maneuvering under fire from an opposing army? I’m not sure I’d want that 40+ pounds of extra weight on my body. If your goal is to reduce the casualty count, improving the “golden hour” response time is probably the best way to do that. Medical advances have been huge, but I think no other development has played a bigger role than transport helicopters. If it could, an interesting option would have been issuing a single, front chest plate (Rhodesian style.) Weight for a single plate and nylon/canvas carrier would have been 7-9lbs, and it would have been very useful for charging machinegun nests, storming beaches, and other assault actions where you are charging the enemy. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 4:49:08 AM EDT
[#24]
PKM
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Posted: 11/7/2017 8:06:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The French had a true intermediate cartridge, the 8x35mm, and a selective fire assault rifle feeding from high capacity detachable magazines in 1918. It died with the end of the war due to unacceptable accuracy past 400 meters. The Americans never even recognized the German 7.92x33mm Kurz or StG44 as anything but a poorly conceived last ditch weapon inferior to the M1. That's how far out of touch US Army ordnance was until introduced to the AK47 in Vietnam...... Did the 8x35 have issues feeding due to the rim? Weren't the French very open-minded during this period of time with regard to firearms design? |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 8:35:30 AM EDT
[#26]
It's not what to give them, it's who to give it too....
Who would be the right person to run with the design you take back..... |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 8:45:10 AM EDT
[#27]
AR-10
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Posted: 11/7/2017 4:37:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Gunwritr Did the 8x35 have issues feeding due to the rim? Weren't the French very open-minded during this period of time with regard to firearms design? Yes, the French were very forward thinking, from bullet design to semi-auto rifles. Garand kept a French Mle 1917 semi-auto rifle in his office..... |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 4:38:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm curious if the metallurgy of 1930's-1940's could have produced an AR500 armor steel equivalent to what we have today? If it could, an interesting option would have been issuing a single, front chest plate (Rhodesian style.) Weight for a single plate and nylon/canvas carrier would have been 7-9lbs, and it would have been very useful for charging machinegun nests, storming beaches, and other assault actions where you are charging the enemy. due to the weight. The soldiers of the time typically carried 65 pounds of gear going over the top as it was. plate carriers are not new, but the quality of today's steel plates are much better 
WWI US soldier with front and back plate, arm guards and helmet which were developed but did not see issue 
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Posted: 11/7/2017 5:21:38 PM EDT
[#30]
This rifle, along with the plane that attaches to it.
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Posted: 11/7/2017 5:55:16 PM EDT
[#31]
mini 30 is the answer enough wood and 30 caliber magazine fed and dont go to the arsenal or procurment do like stoner did ,demonstrate your rifle to the people that actually will be using it.
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:12:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever you present had better be chambered in .30-06, because that's all that's getting built. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:15:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This rifle, along with the plane that attaches to it. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/GAU-8_Avenger_contrast.jpg |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:23:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
No detailed plans but an exploded diagram and an understanding of how it works. Something like this: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Pub/schematic/SKS_Type45_schem.jpg Why the M1 Carbine was already a superior design; lighter, handier, superior sights, and used detachable magazines You could argue what the carbine needed was a better round. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:24:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Chambered in 6.5 Grendel-
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:25:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryPolymer tech wasn't up to that at the time.
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:28:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Wood furnatured AR10.
But i would be an ass and bring one with me. Why? Because All I would need to prove my point would be a magazine of full auto after blatantly tossing it and a garland into a vat of mud. garand: BANG- click ar10- BRAAAAP |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:33:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryThey would have lacked the ability to manufacture the fissile material. something useful would be the gas defuser schematics, the magnetron schematics and the steps for uranium hexafluoride production and how to make plutonium without poisoning the reactor. that would shorten the war. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:37:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is absolutely correct. After WWI, there were enormous stocks of 30-06 in the US military. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever you present had better be chambered in .30-06, because that's all that's getting built. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:41:04 PM EDT
[#40]
AKM, RPK, and M92 submitted to Maj. Gen William C Lee. Sell them as the perfect paratrooper's weapon with enough firepower from every man to hit far above their weight. If you could get them ensconced there they'd spread everywhere else. Get them to either adopt a 7.62x39 with a true .308 bullet, or appeal to the War Department's range and accuracy fetish by swapping for a 6.5x39 loading.
But if you *really* want to change the course of WW2, take back a post war T2 Tanker that had been converted to a container ship. Implementing palletized/intermodal cargo handling methods would have drastically cut down on the Allies' logistical strain. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:44:03 PM EDT
[#41]
For small arms, what would have made the biggest impact remains what has already been posted,
a 4x scope A compact, easy to manufacture, rugged and robust design with a wide FOV would have dramatically increased hit probability. Carl Zeiss had invented the illuminated reticle in 1922, so it could have illumination for low light use. This would have been a big deal. The biggest issue would be sealing it against moisture. BDC reticle for the M2 ball load A 7 degree FOV A large easy to see aiming point for close range shots BDC marks going to 1,000 yards to satisfy the thinking of the day Once zeroed, put the caps on and never touch the knobs. Battery powered illumination similar to a PSO-1 Design it for easy and simplicity of manufacture with a minimum of parts. The value of a optical sights on individual rifles at the squad level was lost on everyone during the war except the Soviets. It was a game changer on the Eastern Front and they fully embraced the concept afterwards. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 8:09:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think they’d accept anything but a wood and metal gun in the 30s? |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 8:29:53 PM EDT
[#43]
The PKM.
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Posted: 11/7/2017 9:04:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For small arms, what would have made the biggest impact remains what has already been posted, a 4x scope A compact, easy to manufacture, rugged and robust design with a wide FOV would have dramatically increased hit probability. Carl Zeiss had invented the illuminated reticle in 1922, so it could have illumination for low light use. This would have been a big deal. The biggest issue would be sealing it against moisture. BDC reticle for the M2 ball load A 7 degree FOV A large easy to see aiming point for close range shots BDC marks going to 1,000 yards to satisfy the thinking of the day Once zeroed, put the caps on and never touch the knobs. Battery powered illumination similar to a PSO-1 Design it for easy and simplicity of manufacture with a minimum of parts. The value of a optical sights on individual rifles at the squad level was lost on everyone during the war except the Soviets. It was a game changer on the Eastern Front and they fully embraced the concept afterwards. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 10:39:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why the M1 Carbine was already a superior design; lighter, handier, superior sights, and used detachable magazines You could argue what the carbine needed was a better round. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No detailed plans but an exploded diagram and an understanding of how it works. Something like this: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Pub/schematic/SKS_Type45_schem.jpg Why the M1 Carbine was already a superior design; lighter, handier, superior sights, and used detachable magazines You could argue what the carbine needed was a better round. 
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/If-the-M1-Carbine-had-been-chambered-in-7-62-x-39-300-Blk-5-56-would-we-still-be-using-it-/5-2047608/ |
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Posted: 11/8/2017 2:54:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Welcome to my other thread.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/If-the-M1-Carbine-had-been-chambered-in-7-62-x-39-300-Blk-5-56-would-we-still-be-using-it-/5-2047608/  good concept. I think the M1 carbine would have lived a longer 'front line' service life if we had a cartridge more like the .300BO or 7.62x39. But I don't think it would still be in use today, we'd have moved to a simpler design for field stripping and manufacture.
As much as I like the M1, field stripping is a PITA compared to more modern designs. |
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