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Posted: 3/11/2014 4:45:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're being too harsh.  The rest of the books were good...the story was a grand story. The Galt book, I'll admit I almost stopped reading on that one. There are things I didn't like about the series but it's probably still a must read for any Sci-Fantasy fan. As long as we are recommending books... Weber wrote a series "The War God's Own". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Terry Goodkind - as some have here have said he does have a somewhat repetitive plot in his books, but it is definitely worth reading the first one in the series. I also have a fondness for Faith of the Fallen as it does a very good job of laying out how communism is bad and capitalism/individual exceptionalism is good. ok ill give you this. wizards first rule was good, pretend the series ends there. You're being too harsh. The rest of the books were good...the story was a grand story. The Galt book, I'll admit I almost stopped reading on that one. There are things I didn't like about the series but it's probably still a must read for any Sci-Fantasy fan. As long as we are recommending books... Weber wrote a series "The War God's Own". The War God's Own was a pretty good series. Hradani kick ass. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 4:54:12 PM EDT
[#2]
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Robert Jordan ran into the same problem that George R. R. Martin ran into with his series deconstructing The Wheel of Time: too many characters and factions to have good stopping points or a satisfying resolution of the parallel plots. I get the idea that the reason Martin kills off so many characters is probably just to avoid having to figure out what the hell they're ultimately going to do. Robert Jordan just quit writing about his extra characters, probably hoping the audience would forget about them. They're both really good writers, but the genre is very hard to write. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wheel of time by Robert Jordan. I read several of the books from that series. The first few were very interesting, then it gradually seemed like the author was trying to drag the story out more and more. Then I heard that the series was originally supposed to have already ended, but the publisher talked the author into stretching things out, so that they would have more books to sell. I got tired of reading thick books with little progression in the story, and gave up on the series. ETA: Just thought of a book that would probably be interesting for arfcommers, but I'm drawing a complete blank on the title and author. I read it some years ago, and don't remember all the details, but the story starts off with a group of mythical creatures trying to steal part of a dragon's treasure. They succeed in getting away with a small part of the treasure, but the loot comes with a curse that turns them into Marines. Anybody know the title? (As bad as my memory is with titles, it wouldn't surprise me if somebody has already mentioned it.) My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. 
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Posted: 3/11/2014 6:05:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Harry Turtledove's Videssos books, starting with THE MISPLACED LEGION. I think these are his best work; he's stealing directly from the period he's most familiar with, the Byzantine Empire.
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Posted: 3/11/2014 6:07:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As long as we are recommending books... Weber wrote a series "The War God's Own". good pick! |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 6:19:21 PM EDT
[#5]
CS Friedman's
Coldfire Trilogy and Magister trilogy Her writing bends evil and good into grey areas. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 6:23:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. IIRC, jordan did 2 years of developmental writing, broadly outlining the story to its conclusion and writing the text of the last battle before drafting the first book in the series. granted, characters multiplied and story languished in the middle of the project (book 5 was the last tightly-written volume for a while), but he certainly had a plan. i'm of two minds regarding the necessity of thorough plotting. i prefer to have a very clear idea of where things are headed, but sometimes characters dictate the plot, and not the other way around. in screenwriting language, there's a fundamental difference between plot-driven and character-driven pieces. read a really interesting essay a while back by (IIRC) steven king or harlan ellison. the essence of the piece was that sometimes you have to let your characters emerge, and too-rigorous plotting can stunt the development of a character. OTOH, the TV show 'lost' is a perfect example of how the failure to plot can really undermine a project. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 6:25:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CS Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy and Magister trilogy Her writing bends evil and good into grey areas. while not quite the same thing, jacqueline carey's 'the sundering' does a very good job of this, and also really delves into divided loyalties. the blurb is that it is LoTR, told from sauron's perspective. highly recommended, but may be a bit flowery and feminine for readers who prefer a gritty style of fantasy.
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Posted: 3/11/2014 6:59:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a good tongue in cheek poke at most fantasy fiction, try Terry Pratchet's "The Color of Magic". I've been following Pratchett for decades. The early and mid Discworld books are fantastic. Funny, weird characters, whimsical wordplay, great stuff. IMHO he eventually lost his way and the later books are very hit-and-miss. He has written a number of stories in which he tries to get a Serious Message across... racism is bad, war is bad, etc, and he doesn't pull it off very well. He also became obsessed with the Sam Vimes character, and the series is now basically Vimesworld  But The Color of Magic is fantastic, as are the several that follow. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:07:30 PM EDT
[#9]
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Try the Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card Dammit...I had forgotten that one. Word for word, much better than the Ender's stuff. The Tales of Alvin Journeyman is a fantastic read, and I highly recommend it. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:11:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryDammit! Another one I've forgotten! Tad Williams is very, very good. Dragonbone Chair series was great...but he nailed it (for me) with his Otherland series. It's a bit more cyberpunk than swords-and-sorcery...but fantasy, still...and damned fine reading. I enjoyed it more than the Dragonbone stuff. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:21:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Jim Butcher's Dresden files series and the Codex Alera series.
Robin Hobb's Farseer Assasin is a great series as well. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:31:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Raymond E Feist's Riftwar cycle... Robin Hobb's Farseer Triology David Eddings' Elenium and Tamuli, as well as the Belgariad and Mallorean series And I'll third? I think the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and the still-living head can be made into a scrier, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:35:58 PM EDT
[#13]
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Which is a damned shame - they were fantastic when they were fantasy and got progressively more horriblererer when they jumped to sci-fi. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Pern series by Anne McCaffrey Which is a damned shame - they were fantastic when they were fantasy and got progressively more horriblererer when they jumped to sci-fi.  I was the opposite..."Ho hum, more Dragonrider fantasy...Yay...OH! What's this? A buried spacecraft in my sword story?...Nice!!!"
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:36:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and one can make a scrier out of it, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:40:46 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:43:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emberverse_series I loved "Dies the Fire"... Then sequels just kept coming out and it seems like it started to do the whole Shannara thing... same story, different generation... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I recently read all the ember verse series. It is a "post apocalyptic" world where things like gunpowder and electricity stop working. It plunges the world into a medieval world I loved "Dies the Fire"... Then sequels just kept coming out and it seems like it started to do the whole Shannara thing... same story, different generation... I had the exact same reaction. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:48:30 PM EDT
[#17]
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If you do end up looking into the Gor books by John Norman... as a head's up his books have spawned a whole sub-culture (not sure what else to call it) within BDSM based on his take on slavery and gender roles. I read a lot of the Gor stuff as a kid. On a whim (and after learning how to do so in a library science in school) I looked up John Norman and his works. Even in the early 80's, he'd already written treatises (not fiction) on the unappreciated benefits of bondage and slavery. Kinda killed it for me when I realized he was sort of a fucking freak. Him and Piers Anthony both creep me out, now. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:53:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. I'm jealous, thinking of the lively conversations and debates you must have about characters that--to you--are ultimately real. That's very, very cool. |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:12:15 PM EDT
[#19]
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LOL me too, the Myth series shaped my sense of humor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Robert Asprin Myth series, as well as Magic Kingdom series Also, "Thieves World" is an anthology he created with a bunch of other fantasy writers, so would be a good into into writers and styles. Robert Heinlein "Glory" Asprin is who i grew up reading Pervert! |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:12:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. I was working in a bookstore when the first Belgariad series was popular, two, three hundred years ago. It wasn't 12-year-olds who were buying it. It was THE hot fantasy series at the time. Fantasy and science fiction are just sort of stunted in dealing with certain themes. I think it goes back to the genres' roots in the '40s and '50s. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/fantasy.html |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:26:56 PM EDT
[#21]
I have been reading the Game of Thrones series for the last bit. I am about half way through. I think it is a wonderful book.
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:55:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was working in a bookstore when the first Belgariad series was popular, two, three hundred years ago. It wasn't 12-year-olds who were buying it. It was THE hot fantasy series at the time. Fantasy and science fiction are just sort of stunted in dealing with certain themes. I think it goes back to the genres' roots in the '40s and '50s. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/fantasy.html Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. I was working in a bookstore when the first Belgariad series was popular, two, three hundred years ago. It wasn't 12-year-olds who were buying it. It was THE hot fantasy series at the time. Fantasy and science fiction are just sort of stunted in dealing with certain themes. I think it goes back to the genres' roots in the '40s and '50s. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/fantasy.html |
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:58:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. This. All you need. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:00:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and one can make a scrier out of it, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate.
the elenium and the tamuli were much better imo. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:10:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Am I in before Penthouse.?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:14:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Kormak series by William King
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:34:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. Weis & Hickman are good reads also, they are most known for their DragonLance series. Kind of in the same vein as the Forgotten Realms series that Salvatore does. Start with the Chronicles trilogy first. (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, Dragons of Spring Dawning) If you like those there are countless other books that are written in the DragonLance world by several different authors. ETA: The Deathgate Cycle is another good series by Weis & Hickman, more of a sci-fi/fantasy hybrid, but a good read. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:49:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson. +1. Just don't ask your wife to read it. 20+ years later, I still get shit about it. Why??? I read, and enjoyed, those years ago. I read quite a bit of Piers Anthony too. Incarnations of Immortality I believe. Click To View Spoiler Oddly, I can separate reality from fiction. Yes, he was a miserable guy. Look at some of the romance and erotica novels some women read. Talk about trash... 
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:57:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pervert! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Robert Asprin Myth series, as well as Magic Kingdom series Also, "Thieves World" is an anthology he created with a bunch of other fantasy writers, so would be a good into into writers and styles. Robert Heinlein "Glory" Asprin is who i grew up reading Pervert! It's pervect. I always like the quotes at the beginning of each chapter, |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 6:04:54 AM EDT
[#30]
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Don't forget the prequels and sequels to the Paksenarrion story. Right now there's two prequels and 4 published sequels and a fifth on the way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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SERRAted Edge urban fantasy series moon's Deed of Paksenarrion darkover series by Marion Zimmer Bradley Don't forget the prequels and sequels to the Paksenarrion story. Right now there's two prequels and 4 published sequels and a fifth on the way. I haven't read them yet so I can't say whether they're good or not. another series i like is Simon R Green Hawk and Fisher Forest Kingdom Nightside |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 6:31:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 8:25:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Although its not really fantasy but fiction. Bernard Cornwell's Saxon chronicles are very good. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 9:10:02 AM EDT
[#33]
I never tire of recommending Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. It's technically science fiction, but only nominally.
Joe Abercrombie's trilogy was good - very cinematic. It's the Belgariad (a guilty pleasure, that) written in GrimDark style with a shaggy dog ending. I haven't read any of his stand-alones. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 9:11:39 AM EDT
[#34]
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The 4 books of the Neverwinter series are damn good reads. I do agree with the Hunter's Blades Trilogy (Thousand Orcs) though. It didn't draw me in like the previous books did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. Greenwood's Waterdeep books are probably my favorite. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 12:23:15 PM EDT
[#35]
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It's pervect. I always like the quotes at the beginning of each chapter, Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pervert! It's pervect. I always like the quotes at the beginning of each chapter, I remember Bob saying once that coming up with those quotes sometimes took longer than writing the whole rest of the book. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 12:34:10 PM EDT
[#36]
For old school, try Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword.
Have there been any Robert E. Howard mentions yet? He could really pack a lot in one paragraph. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 12:42:30 PM EDT
[#37]
For you folks that want a more adult-oriented fantasy series, you ought to check out The Dying Earth series by Jack Vance. The protagonist Cugel is totally amoral, for one thing...steals, rapes, and kills without remorse or regret. This series is where the magic system in Dungeons and Dragons originated, with some spells being direct steals. Bring your thesaurus, Vance is a master of the English language. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 12:44:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For you folks that want a more adult-oriented fantasy series, you ought to check out The Dying Earth series by Jack Vance. The protagonist Cugel is totally amoral, for one thing...steals, rapes, and kills without remorse or regret. This series is where the magic system in Dungeons and Dragons originated, with some spells being direct steals. Bring your thesaurus, Vance is a master of the English language. True fact. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 12:53:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Fantasy and Science Fiction is probably all I voluntarily read up until 8th grade. At that time I was also into AD&D, and remember reading several books that tied in with that genre. Beyond that the only time I read any fantasy was a few years back, I found my old collection of books by Michael Moorcock, his eternal champion series of books. Elric of Melnibone, Hawkmoon, and several others.
They're a short read, but quit frankly weren't as well written as I remember. However, the concept and universe was kind of cool. I'm not sure I can fully recommend them to the average adult reader, but again it's not a huge investment of time, the individual books were very short. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 12:55:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Lord of the Rings
Dragon lance Chronicles |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 1:00:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fantasy and Science Fiction is probably all I voluntarily read up until 8th grade. At that time I was also into AD&D, and remember reading several books that tied in with that genre. Beyond that the only time I read any fantasy was a few years back, I found my old collection of books by Michael Moorcock, his eternal champion series of books. Elric of Melnibone, Hawkmoon, and several others. They're a short read, but quit frankly weren't as well written as I remember. However, the concept and universe was kind of cool. I'm not sure I can fully recommend them to the average adult reader, but again it's not a huge investment of time, the individual books were very short. Another good one. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 2:40:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Here's a fairly obscure suggestion - the Shadow War trilogy by Chris Claremont (Shadow Moon, Shadow Dawn, Shadow Star).
They are set in the "Willow" universe and take place 10-15 years after the movie. Despite the somewhat campy original source move, the books really are well written and significantly darker and more mature in theme and scope. |
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Posted: 3/12/2014 4:41:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and the still-living head can be made into a scrier, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Raymond E Feist's Riftwar cycle... Robin Hobb's Farseer Triology David Eddings' Elenium and Tamuli, as well as the Belgariad and Mallorean series And I'll third? I think the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and the still-living head can be made into a scrier, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. that's another thing I like about Martin...very little "magic," but lots of whores
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