well that took awhile

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4 Florida Officers Indicted for 2019 Shootout with Robbers That Killed a UPS Driver and Passerby

https://www.newsmax.com/us/florida-officers-indicted-shooout-2019/2024/06/16/id/1168918/

Four Florida police officers have been indicted for manslaughter in connection with a 2019 shootout on a busy rush-hour street that left a hijacked UPS driver and a passerby in a nearby car dead.

A grand jury indicted Miami-Dade County officer Rodolfo Mirabal, 39, with two counts of manslaughter with a firearm for the Dec. 5, 2019, deaths of 27-year-old UPS driver Frank Ordonez and Richard Cutshaw, a 70-year-old union negotiator who was driving nearby, Broward County prosecutors announced Saturday night.

Officers Jose Mateo, 32, Richard Santiesteban, 33, and Leslie Lee, 57, were indicted for manslaughter with a firearm in connection with Ordonez's death. They are not charged with Cutshaw's death.

None of the officers are charged with the deaths of the hijackers, 41-year-old cousins Lamar Alexander and Ronnie Jerome Hill.

Mateo and Mirabal are still employed by Miami-Dade police. Lee retired three years ago and Santiesteban was fired, the Miami Herald reported.

Under Florida law, manslaughter is an unlawful killing committed while demonstrating “culpable negligence” — that is defined as an act that shows a “a wanton or reckless disregard for human life.”

The officers face a maximum sentence of 30 years if convicted, but as first-time offenders that would be unlikely.

The four surrendered on Friday and Saturday to the Broward Sheriff's Office and were released without bail.

The indictments were issued more than a week ago, but kept secret pending the officers' surrender. News of the indictments leaked Monday night.

The indictments come after a four-year investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

The shootout happened during rush hour on a major street in suburban Fort Lauderdale after a long pursuit by several police agencies. About 20 law enforcement officers were present, though it is unknown how many opened fire on the hijackers, who had been shooting at officers throughout the pursuit.

Broward State Attorney Harold Pryor said in a statement that the lengthy state investigation and the months-long grand jury proceedings were needed “to ensure we get answers for the victims’ families and the community.”

“Deciding whether to use deadly force is among the most serious and consequential decisions a police officer can make,” Pryor said. “We understand that these decisions are often made during intense and uncertain circumstances.”

No lawyers for the officers are listed in court records.

The South Florida Police Benevolent Association, the officers' union, did not immediately respond to a phone call and email early Sunday seeking comment. They previously issued a statement blasting the indictments.

“We’re extremely disappointed that after almost five years, these officers are finding themselves indicted for something they had seconds to decide. It sends a chilling effect to officers in Broward County,” union president Steadman Stahl said in a statement last week.

Miami-Dade police also did not not immediately respond to a phone message early Sunday. The department earlier issued a statement saying “it respects the legal process."

The tragedy began when Alexander and Hill robbed the Regent Jewelers store in the Miami suburb of Coral Gables. When officers arrives, shots were being fired inside the store. A store worker was hit in the head by a ricochet, but survived.

The robbers fled and hijacked Ordonez, who was delivering packages nearby.

They led officers on a long chase into southern Broward County, running red lights and narrowly avoiding crashes. The chase attracted television news helicopters, which began broadcasting it live nationally.

The hijackers fired from inside the van, which finally stopped in a middle lane at a busy intersection, caught behind a wall of vehicles at a red light.

Witnesses said gunfire suddenly erupted as officers ran between cars toward the van. Ordonez, Alexander and Hill were killed inside the van. Cutshaw was found dead in his car. Investigators have not said if Ordonez and Cutshaw were shot by police, the robbers or both.

Policing experts said in 2019 that the officers were in a tough spot. It appeared the robbers were firing from the van, endangering the officers, Ordonez, nearby drivers and their passengers. The officers needed to contain the robbers in the van so they couldn’t run to another vehicle and take new hostages, the experts said.

It is highly unusual for Florida law enforcement officers to be charged for an on-duty killing, having only happened three times in the past 40 years. Even then, only one of those officers has been convicted.

Three police officers in the Panhandle town of Crestview are awaiting trial on manslaughter charges for the 2021 death of Calvin Wilks Jr., who died after they allegedly jolted him with a stun gun. Those officers, who have pleaded not guilty, are awaiting trial.

Former Palm Beach Gardens officer Nouman Raja is serving a 25-year prison sentence after being convicted of manslaughter and attempted murder for the 2015 shooting of Corey Jones, whose SUV had broken down on an interstate highway off-ramp.

Raja, working undercover and in plain clothes, never identified himself as a police officer when he approached Jones and began yelling at him, an audio recording showed. Jones, fearing he was being robbed, pulled his licensed handgun and tried to flee. Raja pursued and killed him, trial testimony showed.

A Broward sheriff’s deputy was charged with manslaughter for the 2014 fatal shooting of a man who was carrying an air rifle he had just purchased. Deputies yelled at Jermaine McBean, who spun around and was shot by Deputy Peter Peraza. A judge later threw out the manslaughter charge.

Pryor and his prosecutors did not say in their statement or in available court documents how the actions of the indicted officers differed from the others. They declined further comment Sunday.

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lock it down if dupe

Good. That was such a ridiculous clusterfuck driven by retardation and insurmountable ego. I hope that dude's family never has to work another day in their life.

So, spraying and praying is not an acceptable tactic in a heavily populated area?  Who'd a thunk it.

Good. Because they negligently put many people's lives in danger as well as killing the driver.
That was a fucked up video.

Good.  They acted like they were in a video game.

Using occupied vehicles as cover, not identifying the target and generally acting like twelve year olds.

20 officers there, 4 charged? Are they the only ones who fired their guns? Is the prosecution using debunked ballistics matching to try to say they know which guns fired the fatal bullets?

Finally. Young man had just started driving. RIP brother.

What do they think will happen with 40 cops are shooting from all directions at the van. Circular firing squad.

2-3 cops that could see the bad guys should have been shooting. The other shots were NDs.

Is this the one where the officers took up fighting positions behind occupied vehicles?

GOOD!  About damn time.  Sure wouldn't have taken so long if it had been regular Joe Schmoes doing the shooting.

Take the retirement away from the one murderer and toss all four in general population for 10-20 years.  

Any payouts should come directly from the pension fund of the department.

Probably, their guns matched ballistics with the two dead civilians.

Always. Make it hurt for them all. Maybe, they will get the fucking hint, start training better and get rid of the bad apples.

"A four-year investigation", WTF? It took them that long to figure out that they couldn't whitewash it?

That would be for a civil trial, which I would assume is in process.

Except thats junk science

Pardon my ignorance, but when was that determined?

“We’re extremely disappointed that after almost five years, these officers are finding themselves indicted for something they had seconds to decide. It sends a chilling effect to officers in Broward County,” union president Steadman Stahl said in a statement last week.

Is there a good video breakdown/summary? I don't know if I remember this one.

You or I would have been charged within days

Guess some are extra more special

Fixed it for you.  Unless a cop is in the military reserves or National Guard, cops are civilians too.

Last couple years.


https://reason.com/2023/06/22/maryland-supreme-court-limits-testimony-on-bullet-matching-evidence/

Anyone that says they can take 20 fired 147Gn HST bullets fired from 20 different department issued Glocks and match the bullets to a particular gun is a liar

Then how do they know who killed them ?

I support charging whoever fired the fatal shots to the innocent victims but I don't support charging anyone who didn't fire the shots. Kind of a mess here.

That would be my guess too. But you would have to show that each of the shots that would have been fatal came from that weapon. It is not always easy AND it is not always easy with some commonly used firearms.

Even harder when it’s department issued guns likely made in the same production run and department issued ammo likely the same lot number.

I could totally see how you would be involved in a lengthy pursuit and being fired at when you aren't a cop.

Now, I do agree the timeframe is very long. It should have been a few months at most for it to go through.

MD case and only applies to that state. It is a "limiting ruling" for that state and still allows it to be used.

And it depends on which series of Glocks.

Took long enough, I've been searching for updates on this yearly but nothing ever happened.

A lot of people here seem to think it is.

I don't know how they would do that and have a strong enough case against those officers.  IDK, this seems just kinda dumb.

In the unedited video I seem to remember the brown uniformed driver being directly aimed at, crumbling down the stairs of the truck. You could clearly tell the direction from those shooting.

Reporter lady is a smokeshow.

I guarantee video from various sources played a part.

They had to have recovered rounds and showing those rounds were the fatal shots. They could also look at each round recovered, trajectory, etc. and try to guess who fired what from where. It IS possible with the perfect evidence and it is easily swiss cheesed for evidence. I would be curious to read the gun types and how it was determined.

I won't comment on the Cutshaw homicide, it's not as if I watched a video of somebody murdering him.

Ordonez was deliberately murdered by at least one, probably more than one law enforcement officer.
Yes, he/they murdered a surrendering, unarmed, uniform wearing kidnapping victim.

Now let's see you prove beyond a reasonable doubt who deliberately lit up Ordonez, who negligently clipped him, and who didn't shoot him at all.

The Dorner manhunt shootings are easier. Just sentence every attempted murderer who unleashed rounds at the newspaper ladies and the surfer dude to ten years, lifetime ban from touching a firearm, and maybe let them out in 5-8 years with good behavior. The problem in Miami is there are probably officers who fired rounds but committed no crime.

THANK YOU!! I get sick and tired when idiots post the "civilians" bullshit when talking about cops.

She’s simply irresistible!

Oh wow! I had no idea. I thought each gun's bbl was unique because even when using the same rifling reamer there will be unique, individual artifacts from the process.

Wait.

I thought there were only cops and everyone else.

Heroes

cannot comment my opinion, as i’ll receive warning.

So if they are found guilty and go to prison, are they kept from general pop?

I think while in jail going through the court system they're kept separately, but in prison?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073818306893?via%3Dihub

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/04/08/miami-glock-barrels/

https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/the-miami-barrel/

Exactly.

Yes. But they're still civilians.

Thank you. I had no idea that polygonal was difficult to identify.

As gun manufacturing advances, and becomes more automated, the variations between individual examples of a given make and model are decreasing.

Take 50 Sigs 320s made yesterday and a box of ammo. Fire one round from each gun. No one can match each fired bullet to the gun it was fired from.

Treat those 320s like soap in jail
Don't drop

yup.

damn. That's crazy how tight the manufacturing tolerances have gotten then. Never in my life would I think tha twe couldn't trace a round to a bbl.

It’s crazy that they ever could. Why would 500 Glock 17 barrels rifled tomorrow be noticeably different in the rifling?