User Panel
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Posted: 8/12/2012 6:53:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Found a a good Wikipedia article, FWIW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_States Here's an an interesting chart, looking at three dimensions - income, education level, and type of work. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Class_US.svg  at the education level portion of that chart. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:04:11 PM EDT
[#2]
A family pulling in $100k here in Nashville is definitely not rich. I personally think you should have taken the poll higher. I know people making $250/yr who consider themselves middle class. What gets you out of the middle class really comes down to savings and ultimately one's net worth as opposed to income.
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:05:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Are these numbers gross or net pay? Quoted:
Depends on where you live. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:16:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Depends on where you live. This |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:21:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Labor is cheap in Florida.
I had to start all over again after losing my business in 2008. I barely cracked $30K at my new job last year.  |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:24:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
lower middle 20k-35k true middle class 35k-70k upper middle class 70k-100k Correct, middle class is the largest spanning class. The answer should be all of the above. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:25:23 PM EDT
[#7]
My experience is that as long as you are a wage slave, you are at best, middle class.
It is hard to tell in our society since most everyone "lives" as though they actually have money...  |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:25:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Depends on where you live. this out here 70k for a single person is not so great |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:26:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
lower middle 20k-35k true middle class 35k-70k upper middle class 70k-100k That's about what I would think |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:29:30 PM EDT
[#10]
I thought the middle class was disappearing!?
/sarcasm |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:33:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Single - $40k Family - $60k sounds about right It depends on the Area, too. That salary would make you poor in CA, NY, NJ, CO, New England, MD, VA, Most metro areas, etc. For the cheap to live areas, it would be the bottom range. The upper range would be about triple. Americans are a funny bunch. The Poor, pretend to be Middle Class, and the Wealthy do too. We're popular. Everybody Wants In!. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:34:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I,ll make it a poll. Around here all of those would land you in the middle class...perhaps with the exception of $30k. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:35:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Single - $40k Family - $60k Agreed, but, base on where you live $60,000 can be near the low end for a single person in some places. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:40:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: You should clarify whether single or couple for the salary to be considered middle class. $60k & Single = is living very very very well. $60k & a wife with 3 kids.... not middle class.  I live in a town of roughly 62k people were the median income for a household in the city was $37,636 and the median income for a family was $48,843. I make approximately $60k as a single male 14 months out of college with an engineering degree. I would certainly disagree with your statement about living very very very well. Granted I live in a decent apartment, drive a 5 year old car, have a few nice guns that I've bought over the last 15 years, but I'm certainly not living high on the hog doing lines of coke of strippers asses. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:42:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: You should clarify whether single or couple for the salary to be considered middle class. $60k & Single = is living very very very well. $60k & a wife with 3 kids.... not middle class. Not if you spend it all on weapons.  |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:42:32 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:45:07 PM EDT
[#17]
So if a person works two jobs and makes a combined $60k/yr are they still middle class?
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:45:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Single - $40k Family - $60k Sounds great but it can fluctuate quite a bit. $35k in eastern Kentucky for a single person would definitely be middle class, to go from there to some places in northern Virginia you can easily add $12k on to that just from the increased cost of housing. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:46:38 PM EDT
[#19]
All of the above in my local area, if I was in rural Montana or New York city I might have different opinions.
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:56:26 PM EDT
[#20]
middle class family with 2 working parents 100k easy
nurses make 60 alone easy and more with over time upper middle class would be 300 wealthy would be 500+ very wealthy 700+ like our president that wants people to pay more taxes but only paid 20% himself |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 7:57:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I'm not sure, which salary level allows the OP to buy the correct vowel to spell salary?  
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Posted: 8/12/2012 8:08:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: So if a person works two jobs and makes a combined $60k/yr are they still middle class? They are hanging onto it by the skin-o-their-ass. A lot of us fought tooth and nail to get to the "Middle" and we will cling grimly to it despite all evidence to the contrary.  My wife and I currently gross around $135,000 and we are Middle, ( maybe slightly ahead of the the paycheck to paycheck-lottery and smokes buying crowd ). She just took a teaching job and a $25,000 per year paycut, so we'll drop down to middle-middle. It doesn't really matter either way, because "Middle Class" means nothing. What Matters is Assets. It should be: 1. Alive. 2. Paycheck to Paycheck. 3. Getting ahead. 4. Can Retire Soon. 5. Can Retire Today. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 8:21:13 PM EDT
[#23]
To me, middle class means that you bring in enough money that you can live off of it in comfort and put some away as well, have some investments,
let them grow, never touch them, and slowly watch your net worth rise without having to do anything but keep dragging in that paycheck, and after you retire, your wealth still grows. That's middle class. If you're not making enough for your wealth to grow, you have not reached the middle class. If your wealth is sufficient that it will continue to grow if you do not live extravagantly, and you do not have or need to draw a paycheck for that wealth to grow, then you are rich. If your wealth is sufficient that you can live a lavish, even extravagant lifestyle, don't need a job of any kind, and your wealth still grows faster than you can spend it, then you are super-rich. EVENTUALLY, someone who is in the middle class as I describe it will be able to be called rich. However, this is likely to be later in your life. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 8:24:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I think that a lot of people are confused about what "middle class" means. They think that it means you have three cars, and a boat in the driveway. There's poor, middle-class, and rich. If you aren't poor, and you aren't rich, you're middle class. But a lot of people think they're poor, when they aren't. Sorry, but I just can't call you poor when you have a car, cell phone, flat-screen TV, video game console, etc.. truf |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 9:20:49 PM EDT
[#25]
It really depends on where you live. Costs of living vary widely.
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Posted: 8/13/2012 3:44:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends on where you live. Yup. Middle class in nashville is 100k-200k. Im 29 making +/- 50k base and im sure as shit not middle class $50k a year and you're poor? Unless housing cost $2500+ a month, I don't understand how you're poor. Didnt say i was poor, but being under 30, the avg income in nashville for a college degree/salary job is 40-50k for most positions (1-5) years out of college. In order to get a middle class lifestyle and house (200-400k) you need to bring home at least 100k a year minimum. Now if i were living in Knoxville, those numbers change drastically, Nashvegas is expensive for the south. To support my aspirations, i need at least 10k in commissions each month on top of my base. Slowly getting them up there. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:15:30 AM EDT
[#27]
No option for all of the above?
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:25:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did I make it in before military members start getting mad people concider them lower class based on thier salary? Generally, I would say enlisted military jobs have traditionally been considered working class, and officers are considered middle class. Career enlisted military are mostly middle class these days. I got called back to active duty from 2009-2011, as an E-6 with 12 years in I was taking home about $4300 a month net and got a $7700 tax refund on top of that for 2010 because only base pay is taxable and the wife wasn't working. Back in the reserves now and making about $75k a year with my civilian job and reserves combined and I net around the same but will have to actually pay taxes on the whole amount. I tell the enlisted guys all the time about what it is equivalent to on the outside, E-4 is about 50-55k, E-5 is 60-65k, E-6 is 70-75k, E-7 is 80k+, etc, etc. Half the time they glaze over and say "I can make $20-25 an hour on the outside" That's around 45-55k a year not counting having to pay taxes on the whole amount and medical premiums. Depends on location and duty also, I have had years in the military as an E-5 or E-6 where I probably made the equivalent of a 100k a year civilian. Switching to the all volunteer force caused GI pay to skyrocket relative to what it had been traditionally, the increasing focus on NCO "professionalization" has further blurred "class" distinctions - now, it is not unusual for a Sergeant First Class's kid to go to college and pursue a commission, or a LTC's kid to enlist for a few years out of high school. That was a very rare thing 40 years ago - almost unheard of. It really jumped up in the 2002-2004 time frame (I was active duty from 1999-2005). At the beginning of 2002 I was an E-4 netting about $1600 a month. By the end of 2004 I was an E-5 netting about $3100 a month, pay pretty much doubled in those 2-3 years, same location and allowances, just one paygrade higher though. Not complaining at all but for this topic I would consider an E-5 or higher in the middle class in many locations, of course there are exceptions. The valuable thing that I learned during those lean times like when I was an E-2 netting $390 every two weeks in the barracks is I learned how to live poor and it has stuck with me somewhat
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:28:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did I make it in before military members start getting mad people concider them lower class based on thier salary? Generally, I would say enlisted military jobs have traditionally been considered working class, and officers are considered middle class. Career enlisted military are mostly middle class these days. I got called back to active duty from 2009-2011, as an E-6 with 12 years in I was taking home about $4300 a month net and got a $7700 tax refund on top of that for 2010 because only base pay is taxable and the wife wasn't working. Back in the reserves now and making about $75k a year with my civilian job and reserves combined and I net around the same but will have to actually pay taxes on the whole amount. I tell the enlisted guys all the time about what it is equivalent to on the outside, E-4 is about 50-55k, E-5 is 60-65k, E-6 is 70-75k, E-7 is 80k+, etc, etc. Half the time they glaze over and say "I can make $20-25 an hour on the outside" That's around 45-55k a year not counting having to pay taxes on the whole amount and medical premiums. Depends on location and duty also, I have had years in the military as an E-5 or E-6 where I probably made the equivalent of a 100k a year civilian. Switching to the all volunteer force caused GI pay to skyrocket relative to what it had been traditionally, the increasing focus on NCO "professionalization" has further blurred "class" distinctions - now, it is not unusual for a Sergeant First Class's kid to go to college and pursue a commission, or a LTC's kid to enlist for a few years out of high school. That was a very rare thing 40 years ago - almost unheard of. It really jumped up in the 2002-2004 time frame (I was active duty from 1999-2005). At the beginning of 2002 I was an E-4 netting about $1600 a month. By the end of 2004 I was an E-5 netting about $3100 a month, pay pretty much doubled in those 2-3 years, same location and allowances, just one paygrade higher though. Not complaining at all but for this topic I would consider an E-5 or higher in the middle class in many locations, of course there are exceptions. The valuable thing that I learned during those lean times like when I was an E-2 netting $390 every two weeks in the barracks is I learned how to live poor and it has stuck with me somewhat I enlisted in 1993 and pay pretty much stayed stagnant up through when you came in. I think I was getting just about 900 a month before taxes. Nothing to raise a family with, but I still think it was good money for a single Joe in the barracks. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:38:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did I make it in before military members start getting mad people concider them lower class based on thier salary? Generally, I would say enlisted military jobs have traditionally been considered working class, and officers are considered middle class. Career enlisted military are mostly middle class these days. I got called back to active duty from 2009-2011, as an E-6 with 12 years in I was taking home about $4300 a month net and got a $7700 tax refund on top of that for 2010 because only base pay is taxable and the wife wasn't working. Back in the reserves now and making about $75k a year with my civilian job and reserves combined and I net around the same but will have to actually pay taxes on the whole amount. I tell the enlisted guys all the time about what it is equivalent to on the outside, E-4 is about 50-55k, E-5 is 60-65k, E-6 is 70-75k, E-7 is 80k+, etc, etc. Half the time they glaze over and say "I can make $20-25 an hour on the outside" That's around 45-55k a year not counting having to pay taxes on the whole amount and medical premiums. Depends on location and duty also, I have had years in the military as an E-5 or E-6 where I probably made the equivalent of a 100k a year civilian. Switching to the all volunteer force caused GI pay to skyrocket relative to what it had been traditionally, the increasing focus on NCO "professionalization" has further blurred "class" distinctions - now, it is not unusual for a Sergeant First Class's kid to go to college and pursue a commission, or a LTC's kid to enlist for a few years out of high school. That was a very rare thing 40 years ago - almost unheard of. It really jumped up in the 2002-2004 time frame (I was active duty from 1999-2005). At the beginning of 2002 I was an E-4 netting about $1600 a month. By the end of 2004 I was an E-5 netting about $3100 a month, pay pretty much doubled in those 2-3 years, same location and allowances, just one paygrade higher though. Not complaining at all but for this topic I would consider an E-5 or higher in the middle class in many locations, of course there are exceptions. The valuable thing that I learned during those lean times like when I was an E-2 netting $390 every two weeks in the barracks is I learned how to live poor and it has stuck with me somewhat I enlisted in 1993 and pay pretty much stayed stagnant up through when you came in. I think I was getting just about 900 a month before taxes. Nothing to raise a family with, but I still think it was good money for a single Joe in the barracks. It actually was, pitchers of beer were $4 at the E-club and a pack of smokes was <$2. Of course there were the guys that went out and got a $400 car payment and $200 a month car insurance while clearing $800 a month |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:41:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did I make it in before military members start getting mad people concider them lower class based on thier salary? Generally, I would say enlisted military jobs have traditionally been considered working class, and officers are considered middle class. Career enlisted military are mostly middle class these days. I got called back to active duty from 2009-2011, as an E-6 with 12 years in I was taking home about $4300 a month net and got a $7700 tax refund on top of that for 2010 because only base pay is taxable and the wife wasn't working. Back in the reserves now and making about $75k a year with my civilian job and reserves combined and I net around the same but will have to actually pay taxes on the whole amount. I tell the enlisted guys all the time about what it is equivalent to on the outside, E-4 is about 50-55k, E-5 is 60-65k, E-6 is 70-75k, E-7 is 80k+, etc, etc. Half the time they glaze over and say "I can make $20-25 an hour on the outside" That's around 45-55k a year not counting having to pay taxes on the whole amount and medical premiums. Depends on location and duty also, I have had years in the military as an E-5 or E-6 where I probably made the equivalent of a 100k a year civilian. Switching to the all volunteer force caused GI pay to skyrocket relative to what it had been traditionally, the increasing focus on NCO "professionalization" has further blurred "class" distinctions - now, it is not unusual for a Sergeant First Class's kid to go to college and pursue a commission, or a LTC's kid to enlist for a few years out of high school. That was a very rare thing 40 years ago - almost unheard of. It really jumped up in the 2002-2004 time frame (I was active duty from 1999-2005). At the beginning of 2002 I was an E-4 netting about $1600 a month. By the end of 2004 I was an E-5 netting about $3100 a month, pay pretty much doubled in those 2-3 years, same location and allowances, just one paygrade higher though. Not complaining at all but for this topic I would consider an E-5 or higher in the middle class in many locations, of course there are exceptions. The valuable thing that I learned during those lean times like when I was an E-2 netting $390 every two weeks in the barracks is I learned how to live poor and it has stuck with me somewhat I enlisted in 1993 and pay pretty much stayed stagnant up through when you came in. I think I was getting just about 900 a month before taxes. Nothing to raise a family with, but I still think it was good money for a single Joe in the barracks. It actually was, pitchers of beer were $4 at the E-club and a pack of smokes was <$2. Of course there were the guys that went out and got a $400 car payment and $200 a month car insurance while clearing $800 a month Some things never change. I have never had a car payment near 400 dollars. I love how the commander and 1SG generally have some of the most plain and oldest cars in a given company area. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:51:14 PM EDT
[#32]
It really depends on where you live.
If in Hell aka NYC, 100K won't get you shit. That same 100K you will be living good in Mississippi |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 5:05:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SNIP It really jumped up in the 2002-2004 time frame (I was active duty from 1999-2005). At the beginning of 2002 I was an E-4 netting about $1600 a month. By the end of 2004 I was an E-5 netting about $3100 a month, pay pretty much doubled in those 2-3 years, same location and allowances, just one paygrade higher though. Not complaining at all but for this topic I would consider an E-5 or higher in the middle class in many locations, of course there are exceptions. The valuable thing that I learned during those lean times like when I was an E-2 netting $390 every two weeks in the barracks is I learned how to live poor and it has stuck with me somewhat I enlisted in 1993 and pay pretty much stayed stagnant up through when you came in. I think I was getting just about 900 a month before taxes. Nothing to raise a family with, but I still think it was good money for a single Joe in the barracks. It actually was, pitchers of beer were $4 at the E-club and a pack of smokes was <$2. Of course there were the guys that went out and got a $400 car payment and $200 a month car insurance while clearing $800 a month Some things never change. I have never had a car payment near 400 dollars. I love how the commander and 1SG generally have some of the most plain and oldest cars in a given company area. Same thing applies outside the military, my house payment with taxes and insurance is about 12-15% of my net income, I just live cheap, always have. I pay cash for stuff or pay down loans much faster than I am supposed to (interest has been so low, sometimes financing makes sense). Sure I could have a bigger house and could get approved for multiple times the mortgage I have now but I don't care to. Just being a cheap bastard but there is a bunch of security in living cheap, I could still get by on $1600 a month today as I was doing 10 years ago, of course I drink and party much less these days so that helps, damn golf is expensive though.
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Posted: 8/13/2012 5:05:39 PM EDT
[#34]
If you're able to afford TV, more than one vehicle, Internet, a smart phone, trips to the mall, nonwalmart clothes, nonessentials, just about any mortgage you're middle class.
If you're living paycheck to paycheck and can't get ahead you're below. A lot of people feel entitled to nonessentials. And in their mind make the above things the low bar livable. Owning toys like a boat, extra vehicles, away vacations, more house than needed, frivolous shit like a 400 dollar purse bumps you to upper and above class. Or you can live outside your means and buy one of the previous things then bitch how middle class doesn't get paid enough. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 5:51:23 PM EDT
[#35]
When we were kids, my sister got a job in the babysitting for a neighbor for 20 hours a week at minimum wage. They were middle class.
I think should be a litmus test if you are of middle class wage earner. Can you hire someone to work for you for 20 hours a week at today's minimum wage? Can you do it for a summer? All year? The democrats keep arguing that minimum wage is too low. Well reality sets in when you have to pay it as a regular middle class Joe. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 6:11:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Who cares?
What's the point of classification? If they're happy with their life, what difference does it make? |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 6:20:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Depends on where you live. This |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 6:27:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Depends on where you live. Yea. Some of the figures that are "lower- middle class" for the Midwest would get you a van down the river in some parts of CA. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 7:03:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends on where you live. I agree. My property taxes are $14,000 a year for a 75x100 with a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom split level. Family of 4 here needs at least 125-150 a year. Holy Shit man....Mine run around $700 a year for 2500sq House on 2 acres 5 miles outside the city in the county Yeah I agree, $14k in property taxes for THAT?! wtf. I'm buying a house in two days on the same lot size, 3 bed, 2 bath, 1200 sqft with finished outbuilding that has property taxes of $600/yr. This is in NW Oklahoma in a town with 20k people.
I take home about $5k/month salary filing single with an engineering degree. Hell, I know some plant operators with 5-10 yr experience making $140k/yr with 400-500 hr/yr in OT. Why does it cost so much to live on either coast? Too many people on the dole... 
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:15:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Why does it cost so much to live on either coast? Too many people on the dole...
Its not just the dole. Thats just the popular whipping boy. The reality is that as population goes up into the densities you see in modern urban/ suburban aras , you need more than the bare essential services that a frontier or thinly populated area gets by on. |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:21:41 AM EDT
[#41]
As a Brit, I know that class is not about income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_the_United_Kingdom#Middle_class |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:39:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why does it cost so much to live on either coast? Too many people on the dole...
Its not just the dole. Thats just the popular whipping boy. The reality is that as population goes up into the densities you see in modern urban/ suburban aras , you need more than the bare essential services that a frontier or thinly populated area gets by on. What, access to two rifle/pistol ranges and prime hunting grounds in every direction don't count as essential services? 
My yardstick to civilization is proximity to a local super Walmart; everything else can either be driven to or ordered over the internet. By my town's standard I'm upper middle class as a single guy, but once married with 2-3 kiddos will probably be median (wife WILL stay home, absolutely no daycare). |
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