@Commander_Keen

I'm glad you took interest in the heart rate zones as I always thought they were a bit sus. I've done several deepish dives on the Garmin forums and I set them up according to what I thought was the most accurate according to the veteran forum members. The most recent software updates to the Epix Gen 2 have had me a bit skittish.

I'm early 50s, 6'1", 230lbs and was in ZERO shape (255 lbs.) when I started running. My first HR tests would hit 201-203 on my Samsung Galaxy 6 watch. I then purchased the Garmin Epix and it reported 199. I thought these readings were unrealistic so I purchased a Scosche Rhythm R+2.0 armband HRM as well as the Garmin HRM Pro+ chest strap (which I use on every run). The chest strap has read over 200 on multiple occasions so I'm guessing that all 4 devices I have tried can't all be off by that much.

I've got Garmin auto detection turned on for Max Heart Rate, Threshold and FTP. HR Zones are set to %LTHR. Here are some screenshots from Garmin Connect:

Heart Rate
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Heart Rate Zones
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Sport Heart Rate (Running)
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Sport Heart Rate (Running) Zones
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On the Garmin forums, many users said to reset your HR Zones when setting %LTHR as the calculation method so I did that when I first switched over from using %MaxHR (which I had only used for about a week). That said, I am unsure if these zones should be manually reset every time Garmin makes a MaxHR and/or Running Lactate Threshold adjustment after a run.

Since I am not 100% certain that I have everything configured correctly in the Garmin ecosystem, my fallback is to recognize how my body is behaving during runs. In the current zone 2 setup, I can easily breath in through my nose and exhale from my mouth and carry on a conversation relatively easy. In other words, it feels like what I am told zone 2 should feel like.

I'm open to any advice you have for me as I would love to identify any setup errors and optimize my routine for staying injury free.

I dove down the rabbit hole of HR training after my first marathon. I had gotten a different watch that actually showed what the zone ranges were - my first only showed average HR. With that original watch I had done the calculations to figure out what my zones were and was happy to see that I was averaging in Z2. Being able to see the actual time spent in each zone really changed this, though - when previously averaging in Z2 I was actually spending 50-something percent of the time in Z2 and the rest in Z3, which wasn't what I was wanting. Seeing things more specifically on the watch let me treat the top of Z2 as a ceiling, rather than a target. I do credit this with helping make a lot of progress relatively quickly in my earlier running years.


The Epix has a good HRM in it (in general heavier people can get better readings from wrist-based HRM than skinny people because watches bounce around on the wrist bones less), the Scosche Rhythm was once the gold standard for an optical band HRM (it's still quite good, just not the best), and the Garmin chest straps are great as well.

Having all of those pick up your max HR over 200 I wouldn't question it. As a side note, sometimes static with your shirt can cause errors in reading for chest straps, and sometimes wrist-based monitors can get stuck interpreting cadence as HR (cadence lock). An optical arm band monitor won't have issues with static and also is far less likely to pick up on cadence because of where it is on the arm and that the upper arm is meatier than the wrist.

So, it definitely seems like you're an outlier in terms of max HR. That doesn't really mean anything one way or another regarding performance possibilities, just that your HR at a given effort level will likely be higher than someone next to you. On the opposite side of this, I know a guy whose max HR is 16x and he's super fast - he just does it all at a low HR. The percentages are all about the same, though.

LTHR is rather good, though I'd move away from this unless your watch has actually popped up a message after a run regarding your LTHR being detected or updated. Without this it's just going to go off a generic formula. Occasionally this detection could happen during a regular workout if you're running around 10k to half marathon effort, but there's also an on-watch LTHR test. If you go through this know that you need to do it very rested as it's in INCREDIBLY difficult workout. Basically "run fast for a few minutes", "run a little faster for a few minutes", and this just repeats without rest until you collapse.
The LTHR calculations, once it actually detects that for you, are quite accurate. Likely only a few BPM off from what it would be if you did an actual LT test in a lab - well close enough for training. And the fact that it'll update this for you each time it detects a change (you will have the opportunity to accept or decline those changes, if you haven't seen this before) is great a keeping the zones proper for your current fitness.

If you haven't seen that LTHR detected message yet, I highly encourage setting your zones by heart rate reserve (HRR). In essence, it uses your max HR and your resting HR to calculate your zones within the range that your HR will actually operate in, which is better than just a straight percentage of max HR. And this will also update automatically if your max HR changes and as you get more fit and your resting HR lowers. I have my zones set this way and honestly it lines up with 1bpm of what it would be by LTHR and also a V02Max lab test I did last year. The zones lining up like that is somewhat unique to me, YMMV.

Re: %LTHR.. Since I was starting from zero exercise for over 20 years, everything I did running related was basically "I'm about to collapse - Max effort". I enabled auto detect for MaxHR/Threshold/FTP and changed HR zone calculation from %HRR to %LTHR shortly into my running journey/Epix ownership and was getting %LTHR+ detection and MaxHR+ messages after every couple of runs (and I always accept the values and hit save). To me, this was confirmation that the auto zones feature was functioning. I have also noticed that these post exercise messages are tapering off so if feels in line with my actual physical progress.

Given your reply, I'm inclined not to make any changes to these settings as you appear to be in agreement with my reported metrics. Again, thanks for helping me out on this!

My coach provides me with the workouts, but the paces for each intensity are from Jack Daniels' VDOT Calculator. Jack is a guy who literally has a PhD in exercise performance, specifically running, and has done a ton of research and very high-level coaching using his research as a base. All you need to do here is plug in a recent race/time trial result and it will give you not only roughly equivalent performances for other distances, but also specifically what paces to run (assuming good weather, flat surfaces, or treadmill) for different types of workouts. If you want to go more in-depth into it, Daniels Running Formula is a great resource that explains all of this and has some example plans. I recommend the 3rd edition linked here, rather than the newer 4th edition as the newer one removed some helpful material. One side note here: for his threshold runs he gives 1 minute of jogging recovery per mile of threshold pace work. This ratio is aimed at professionals for whom that threshold pace is around 5 minutes per mile. The solution for us mortals is to adjust this to be 1 minute of jog recovery per 5 minutes of running at threshold pace/effort.


The benefits of doing workouts, specifically longer intervals, on a treadmill is that you can just dial in the proper pace and just let it rip without having to put any mental effort into maintaining the proper pace. Shorter, faster intervals are more difficult because the time it takes for the treadmill to speed up/slow down and even typing in the speeds for the work/rest portions can be tricky.

Mentally, it can be more difficult to run on a treadmill, even for a workout in which you're more engaged because of the different pacing and not being able to just mentally drift away.

Ok, now with some of that out of the way, it's best to use a recent race or time trial result to drive this training. Your marathon result is 8 months old and too old to be of much use. I'd recommend jumping into a 5k (great because of the social and competitive aspects) or even just doing a 5k or 1 mile solo time trial. This will get you a great idea of where your fitness is right now, and that's key - doing your workouts based upon where your fitness currently is, not where it was or where you'd like it to be.

Going through that book will help provide a great base for a training plan, which works for many. The VDOT website has a service that will send workouts to your watch based upon goals and what your current fitness is, then there is a further step up in getting a live coach to build workouts based on you as an individual and what you want to do. I've done all of these, and they all have pros and cons.

There's a ton else I can just start typing about, but if you have any specific questions let me know and I can address those specifically.