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Posted: 8/27/2024 9:44:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ironknife]
[#1]
Dumbest shit I’ll watch today
The female is worse than useless, watch his back? So even grappling is PC now The Gracie will be quite unrestrainable playing by those rules. Stikes and joint locks have to be used is that situation. 4 normal cops starting in that position should have worked if they could used them. Now, that ain’t no normal guy, and you better pray you don’t end up on the ground with him with any less than that, cause you’re gonna get hurt real bad real quick. carotid artery strikes and obtain back control with 4 fucking people shouldn’t be impossible if you aren’t playing PC grappling, Once the knife came out, lethal force was not only authorized, but should be used at the earliest opportunity. That should have been done in that demonstration. Pull a knife grappling , nightmare shit right there, don’t care how bad u think you are. Solution? Bring back saps. Tap tap, changes everything instantly, and can go lethal if necessary. Who ever took them from cops fucked up bad.  |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:11:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ShermanMcCoy: Pffft - that's nothing compared to this woman.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNDZZTFGfQHahahah. That chick cop needs to quit , she is garbage. A small amount of verbal Judo mighta fixed that. But what did I see Knee on back, and joint locks. That’s not PC Guess real life is different or is just Florida. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:22:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Cargo nets make more sense.
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:32:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: Lol "safe wrap" or not, at least 2 of those 4 in the beginning were absolutely useless. Even the big guy didn't understand body mechanics. ETA The point of my post being, if defensive tactics are not drilled on a very regular basis, they will not be very useful. Injuries and money prevent that, unfortunately. I've used BJJ on a couple of patients in the ED. Side control wins the day....and lets the 6 people who are trying to control the idiot get off the floor and get some Geodon. 
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:32:37 AM EDT
[#5]
The whole bit about not being able to get on his back? I guess this is the institutional overreaction to the whole George Floyd thing?
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:34:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nightstalker: Cargo nets make more sense. Yeah. Made of 1/16" dyneema, folded in a special CO2 charged compartment on their Bat Belt, right next to the grappling hook apparatus so they can walk up buildings. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:36:51 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By badkarmaiii: I remember a 100lb crack ho doing one armed push-ups with me kneeling on her back and neck. 240 lbs naked plus armor and duty rig. Had to dislocate her shoulder to get her cuffed. I can see some value in this idea, but it also smells of instructor bias. Just because the teachers can do it doesn't mean that Roscoe and Cleetus can. Teach to the level of the student. Most students don't care enough to practice like the instructor. A friend teaches combatives to the local PD. None of them train it except that one time every year. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:38:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Yeah. Made of 1/16" dyneema, folded in a special CO2 charged compartment on their Bat Belt, right next to the grappling hook apparatus so they can walk up buildings. Think he was talking about in between the back seat and front seat Bat belt thing was as realistic as that demonstration though |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:39:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1A4ME: Absolutely. Won't submit? Pain is the reward. Stupid enough to keep resisting? More pain. What part of breaking the law don't people understand? Don't get me wrong, law enforcement really does need training, a LOT more training than they're given, on this stuff because knowing how to do it well is safer for everyone. The cop is less likely to be scared and over react. They're less likely to mess up and hurt someone unintentionally. They are less likely to get hurt. It's less likely to result in them deciding to punish someone, which is a common theme even in this thread, when their lawful goal is simply to restrain someone. There's pretty much no scenario where better trained LEOs doesn't make for a better situation in this kind of thing. Let's be fair here, unless those officers were instructors, you have an absolute master versus what amounts to maybe some blue belts. But it makes the point that more and better training is important because while I may not have much faith left in law enforcement, they do have a job to do and plenty of the people they legitimately have to go hands on with WILL have grabbling training. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:39:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bohr_Adam: The whole bit about not being able to get on his back? I guess this is the institutional overreaction to the whole George Floyd thing? There've been a few knuckle heads die from compressed thoracic cavity. Cops under the incorrect impression that "If you can talk, you can breath" while sounding logical doesn't cover the totality of circumstance when someone is hysterical and already in O2 deficit. We can argue whether or not the suspect originally put themselves in that predicament or their previous ingestion of drugs would have killed them anyway. But, given the display of LEO intellect in some instances and areas, I don't see it being a bad idea to try to stay away from more dangerous techniques. That feels a little contradictory to my position that RNC should be handed out like candy. 
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:40:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: I know of probably 5 or more BJJ gyms that allow local LEOs to train for free. You know how many show up? Occasionally, one will show up, get rough with one of the 15 year olds who will then handle them, their ego gets bruised and they don't come back. Grow up, everyone's ego gets bruised doing combatives, let it go cupcake and learn.. We see more COs both current and previous train than we do normal LEOs. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:41:08 AM EDT
[#12]
And batons, taxers, and pepper spray then get back to me. Throw some knuckle sandwiches it to boot.
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:41:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: I know of probably 5 or more BJJ gyms that allow local LEOs to train for free. You know how many show up? Occasionally, one will show up, get rough with one of the 15 year olds who will then handle them, their ego gets bruised and they don't come back. Grow up, everyone's ego gets bruised doing combatives, let it go cupcake and learn.. We see more COs both current and previous train than we do normal LEOs. Same with IDPA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:43:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: Think he was talking about in between the back seat and front seat Bat belt thing was as realistic as that demonstration though I don't think you understand what was actually being demonstrated. It's like people judging the teaching/learning of any particular technique. I've heard it all. "Well, yeah. That's easy to do when the uke is going with the technique" "Sure, it's easy to do at slow motion" "But what if, what if, what if, what if?" It wasn't meant to be realistic in entireity any more than kote gaeshi is intended to show how to take someone off their feet by the wrist. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:51:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: I don't think you understand what was actually being demonstrated. It's like people judging the teaching/learning of any particular technique. I've heard it all. "Well, yeah. That's easy to do when the uke is going with the technique" "Sure, it's easy to do at slow motion" "But what if, what if, what if, what if?" It wasn't meant to be realistic in entireity any more than kote gaeshi is intended to show how to take someone off their feet by the wrist. I saw 4 cops train in PC grappling trying to get one of the best grapplers on the planet into some restraint position that obviously ain’t gonna happen against that guy unless he lets them. Obviously should have went lethal once the knife came out. That’s what I saw, and to train differently is gonna get people hurt when real knives come out. All PC bullshit better stop when that happens, and training for anything else is gonna get people stabbed and the guy will walk away. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:54:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Are there any Gracie kids who just never were that good at the BJJ thing and are like out there working as middle managers or accounts or what not?
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:13:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Are there any Gracie kids who just never were that good at the BJJ thing and are like out there working as middle managers or accounts or what not? When I met Rener, he was about 12yo. Already was teaching adults. Not sure if their dojo environment and outlook remains the same, today. Back then, all members of the family contributed at all levels. Janitorial, maintenance, right down to cleaning toilets and scrubbing mats. I get what you're saying. Surely some kids wanted to go off and do their own thing. But, if someone can make a good living off of something they love... that's winning at life, ime. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:14:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ironknife]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Are there any Gracie kids who just never were that good at the BJJ thing and are like out there working as middle managers or accounts or what not? No idea I only have heard of some of the fighters. Id think not all of them got into the BJJ thing. With that type of drive I’d wanna think some of them were successful in other things, Maybe not |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:18:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: No idea I only have heard of some of the fighters. Id think not all of them got into the BJJ thing. With that type of drive I’d wanna think some of them were successful in other things, Maybe not Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Are there any Gracie kids who just never were that good at the BJJ thing and are like out there working as middle managers or accounts or what not? No idea I only have heard of some of the fighters. Id think not all of them got into the BJJ thing. With that type of drive I’d wanna think some of them were successful in other things, Maybe not Seems every family always has that one kid. I just like to imagine him being quite successful but still kind of shunned and seen as an outcast for not being in the family business. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:23:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ironknife]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Seems every family always has that one kid. I just like to imagine him being quite successful but still kind of shunned and seen as an outcast for not being in the family business. Ridge says he knew them and they all started in it, I’d guess he knows. You would think some would have other options, but that is a different culture. The Gracie family is a family of martial artists from Brazil who are known for their contributions to Jiu-Jitsu and mixed martial arts. However, not all members of the family are involved in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ): What Google says, but no names or what they do |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:24:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jollyg83: Uh ok. I’ve had to hands on with patients multiple times. I learned early on pressure points and when to apply them. But sure keep thinking EMS doesn’t go hands on. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jollyg83: Originally Posted By WesJanson: The fight at the beginning is a sham, simply because there's zero attempt being made at getting cuffs on and control of the wrists. The very end, when Gracie is talking about an ideal of having EMS put someone into a "SafeWrap position 2" prior to arrival of law enforcement is so insanely nutty any cop here is already trying to pull themselves off the floor from laughing. EMS doesn't go hands-on with a combative at-large subject by themselves..period. Unless it's life or death and they're being attacked, in which case they're probably using improvised weapons or just running like hell. What's *not* being shown is how you magically get the hostile subject onto the ground and set up for SafeWrap(TM). Because like most techniques, if you train at it for years and you're a large, fit guy, you'll find it relatively easy to subdue most subjects, provided they're not on hallucinogens, dissassociatives, or utterly insane. Getting that technique to work for the 100 lb cop, or work when someone has zero pain receptors and believes they're the Hulk because the voices are telling them so...is a different story. Uh ok. I’ve had to hands on with patients multiple times. I learned early on pressure points and when to apply them. But sure keep thinking EMS doesn’t go hands on. Would your agency ever remotely dream of offering arrest control training, and writing policies to allow EMS to take down combative subjects alone? Holding someone on the stretcher who's getting out of control is one thing, taking down an actively combative drugged-up methhead who's on their feet, might be armed, and completely psychotic is a different story. Even if a crew did it, would their agency ever encourage that level of engagement? |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:27:25 AM EDT
[#22]
I think it was Jocko Willink on one of his podcasts mentioning that police should be spending 1/3 of their time training. Not necessarily all combatives, but you get the idea.
Obviously that would be impossible for most departments with their staffing levels, but curious if the idea otherwise had merit. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:29:23 AM EDT
[#23]
I studied Japanese jujutsu for many years and fought invaluable when making arrests.
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:32:06 AM EDT
[#24]
when will they add tranquilizer darts for cops to use?
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:36:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: I think it was Jocko Willink on one of his podcasts mentioning that police should be spending 1/3 of their time training. Not necessarily all combatives, but you get the idea. Obviously that would be impossible for most departments with their staffing levels, but curious if the idea otherwise had merit. Always found it very odd to hear cops claim something along the lines of "I ain't getting paid to train, so I'm not going to do it".  I don't get paid to learn more about machining, but I do because I want to be better. I guess that ends up making me more money but not directly. One would think logic would dictate, if for no other reason than self preservation and to make their job easier, they would spend some personal time or even >gasp< their own money How much personal money do mechanics spend, getting better or specialized tools to make their job easier? Says something about the mentality, I think. I know some cops do train on their own time and dime. Kudos to them. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:37:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: I think it was Jocko Willink on one of his podcasts mentioning that police should be spending 1/3 of their time training. Not necessarily all combatives, but you get the idea. Obviously that would be impossible for most departments with their staffing levels, but curious if the idea otherwise had merit. My first agency dedicated a week to training...every four years. Figure you get 182 days of 12 hrs each year, that's 2184 hrs each person works annually. You'd be averaging roughly 12 hrs per year in refresher training, plus about 2 hrs for qualifying with a pistol. It was optional to go take a 40 hr specialty class each year, but if you did that got you up to maybe 60ish hours of training annually. In other words, 2% of your paid time was training, the rest was working. Nominally a squad was 10 officers and a supervisor. At times staffing levels were so bad it might be down to only 2 or 3 patrol units...covering an area with maybe 25-50k residents. Increasing training from 2% of the time to 30% of the time would mean only having 1 or 2 cops on the road to cover that region. Oh, and your pay is roughly comparable to that of a high school teacher. In contrast my current agency is much more focused on training. For a while their staffing levels were good enough to enable a solid 20 hrs of training a month, so 240 hrs a year..almost 10% of your time in training, plus optional extra classes. Staffing levels decreased though, and call volumes went up, and shift assignments changed, and now it's down to only 70-80 hrs a year, plus optional classes (so maybe 120 hrs annually). I sincerely doubt there's a single agency in this country that can afford to have their people training even 25% of the time. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:39:14 AM EDT
[#27]
My Karate and BJJ instructor was also a vice cop and also trained prison guards. One day he brought in his gun belt, retention holster, Glock and cuffs. First he taught us how to cuff someone and the technique taught to cops. Then he proceeded to teach us how to defeat being cuffed and lock up a cop on the ground in such a way that you can easily pull their gun out of their retention holster and do what you will with it.
He said he was teaching us in case we decided we didn’t want to be arrested if we found ourselves in that situation though he advised against it. This wasn’t a one time thing we learned, it was practiced. Mr. Hughes is a bad ass dude. I feel bad for any cop that runs into a high level BJJ practitioner that doesn’t want to be arrested. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:41:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ParityError: We used to have a semi-pro football player who worked out at a gym in our first due. He was a diabetic and would occasionally go beast mode on the weights and burn up all his blood sugar. He'd get aggressive and we'd have to restrain him. We would get the four biggest cops / firefighters / EMS providers and use a folded gym mat to rush him and wrap him up. It was always a challenge because this guy was enormous. Nicest guy when he was back to normal glucose levels. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ParityError: Originally Posted By WesJanson: The fight at the beginning is a sham, simply because there's zero attempt being made at getting cuffs on and control of the wrists. The very end, when Gracie is talking about an ideal of having EMS put someone into a "SafeWrap position 2" prior to arrival of law enforcement is so insanely nutty any cop here is already trying to pull themselves off the floor from laughing. EMS doesn't go hands-on with a combative at-large subject by themselves..period. Unless it's life or death and they're being attacked, in which case they're probably using improvised weapons or just running like hell. What's *not* being shown is how you magically get the hostile subject onto the ground and set up for SafeWrap(TM). Because like most techniques, if you train at it for years and you're a large, fit guy, you'll find it relatively easy to subdue most subjects, provided they're not on hallucinogens, dissassociatives, or utterly insane. Getting that technique to work for the 100 lb cop, or work when someone has zero pain receptors and believes they're the Hulk because the voices are telling them so...is a different story. We used to have a semi-pro football player who worked out at a gym in our first due. He was a diabetic and would occasionally go beast mode on the weights and burn up all his blood sugar. He'd get aggressive and we'd have to restrain him. We would get the four biggest cops / firefighters / EMS providers and use a folded gym mat to rush him and wrap him up. It was always a challenge because this guy was enormous. Nicest guy when he was back to normal glucose levels. A few of us had a personal connection with him and we could usually negotiate our way through whatever crisis he was creating. I'm not sure today's young guys would take the time or have the inclination to learn his story. They definitely wouldn't want to go hands on with him. |
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BHS
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:47:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Underscore_O_Three]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007:  Obviously you have neither been in uniform, nor thrown hands with anyone with "real skill." Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Obviously you have neither been in uniform, nor thrown hands with anyone with "real skill." Originally Posted By fargo007: Obviously you have neither been in uniform, nor thrown hands with anyone with "real skill." Wrong on both counts, Sir. My first kickboxing match was 1995. My first Judo tournament 1996. My first BJJ tournament 1997. I fought at the Mundials in Rio in 2000. I took 3rd in the All Army Combatives 2006. My first MMA fight was in 2001. My last MMA fight was in 2015. I bounced on 6th street in Austin. I've been stabbed twice and shot at overseas. I've got the credentials. Here's some random shit  William J Random Fights Over 20 Years Even though im over 50 and fat now I did an hour of kickboxing last night. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/ySFT8YSmfdrpcste/?mibextid=oFDknk Hmmm...Facebook reels are not my forte... I'd say I've thrown hands with people who have "skill". My point remains, cops who think that applying pain and beating people in the face or breaking their ribs in lieu of getting some skill are serious problems. You sound like one of those guys. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:49:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Always found it very odd to hear cops claim something along the lines of "I ain't getting paid to train, so I'm not going to do it". I don't get paid to learn more about machining, but I do because I want to be better. I guess that ends up making me more money but not directly. One would think logic would dictate, if for no other reason than self preservation and to make their job easier, they would spend some personal time or even >gasp< their own money How much personal money do mechanics spend, getting better or specialized tools to make their job easier? Says something about the mentality, I think. I know some cops do train on their own time and dime. Kudos to them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By BCPVP: I think it was Jocko Willink on one of his podcasts mentioning that police should be spending 1/3 of their time training. Not necessarily all combatives, but you get the idea. Obviously that would be impossible for most departments with their staffing levels, but curious if the idea otherwise had merit. Always found it very odd to hear cops claim something along the lines of "I ain't getting paid to train, so I'm not going to do it". I don't get paid to learn more about machining, but I do because I want to be better. I guess that ends up making me more money but not directly. One would think logic would dictate, if for no other reason than self preservation and to make their job easier, they would spend some personal time or even >gasp< their own money How much personal money do mechanics spend, getting better or specialized tools to make their job easier? Says something about the mentality, I think. I know some cops do train on their own time and dime. Kudos to them. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:49:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Always found it very odd to hear cops claim something along the lines of "I ain't getting paid to train, so I'm not going to do it". I don't get paid to learn more about machining, but I do because I want to be better. I guess that ends up making me more money but not directly. One would think logic would dictate, if for no other reason than self preservation and to make their job easier, they would spend some personal time or even >gasp< their own money How much personal money do mechanics spend, getting better or specialized tools to make their job easier? Says something about the mentality, I think. I know some cops do train on their own time and dime. Kudos to them. I'm not defending any LEO's who actually say that (I never heard that uttered), but this is kind of a low resolution view. If I came to work for you as a machinist and never used a certain piece of equipment or executed a certain technique, would you really expect me to pursue training on that at my own expense, and on my own time? And if a state/county/city is going to hold you criminally responsible for literally everything you do (and we all know that's the case times ten), and measure every use of force you conduct with a micrometer, they also retain the obligation to properly train everyone to a competent level, and maintain that. Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't train, and of COURSE they should stay in fucking shape. Any barracks I worked at, the gym was almost always occupied. It's also true that they do offer really good defensive tactics training that some are just going to refuse to attend. It's just kind of a deeper topic than it might seem. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:54:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scrambler28: Decent turd cutter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scrambler28: Originally Posted By ShermanMcCoy: Pffft - that's nothing compared to this woman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNDZZTFGfQDecent turd cutter. Looks like she pissed herself lol |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:03:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: Wrong on both counts, Sir. My first kickboxing match was 1995. My first Judo tournament 1996. My first BJJ tournament 1997. I fought at the Mundials in Rio in 2000. I took 3rd in the All Army Combatives 2006. My first MMA fight was in 2001. My last MMA fight was in 2015. I bounced on 6th street in Austin. I've been stabbed twice and shot at overseas. I've got the credentials. Here's some random shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF4zulv2KRQEven though im over 50 and fat now I did an hour of kickboxing last night. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/ySFT8YSmfdrpcste/?mibextid=oFDknk Hmmm...Facebook reels are not my forte... I'd say I've thrown hands with people who have "skill". My point remains, cops who think that applying pain and beating people in the face or breaking their ribs in lieu of getting some skill are serious problems. You sound like one of those guys. Impressive, but what I meant by uniform was law enforcement. Actually having done the job you are criticizing. My point remains: The video in the OP was a situation that clearly called for more force than was (allowed to be) used. He would have been in cuffs FAR sooner and with less risk to both himself and those trying to get him under control. It's fair to point out that they also appeared to very much not know what they were doing. If you are taking the position that striking has no place in the use of force by law enforcement and isn't itself "a skill," then I completely disagree with you. It's absolutely a skill, and along with many other things it's absolutely necessary to have it. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:06:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: I think there's probably a number of benefits to having it be part of the job rather than something they just should learn on their own. Not least of which is that you'd have people learning stuff that's, at least in theory, been approved. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By BCPVP: I think it was Jocko Willink on one of his podcasts mentioning that police should be spending 1/3 of their time training. Not necessarily all combatives, but you get the idea. Obviously that would be impossible for most departments with their staffing levels, but curious if the idea otherwise had merit. Always found it very odd to hear cops claim something along the lines of "I ain't getting paid to train, so I'm not going to do it". I don't get paid to learn more about machining, but I do because I want to be better. I guess that ends up making me more money but not directly. One would think logic would dictate, if for no other reason than self preservation and to make their job easier, they would spend some personal time or even >gasp< their own money How much personal money do mechanics spend, getting better or specialized tools to make their job easier? Says something about the mentality, I think. I know some cops do train on their own time and dime. Kudos to them. Granted. When I did teach LEOs, it became apparent that a good percentage of what they did learn, as far as hand to hand goes, was mostly about not getting their dept sued. The phrase "Yeah, we're not allowed to do that" was used often. I'm surprised they weren't issued Nerf batons and fuzzy handcuffs. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:14:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: Wrong on both counts, Sir. My first kickboxing match was 1995. My first Judo tournament 1996. My first BJJ tournament 1997. I fought at the Mundials in Rio in 2000. I took 3rd in the All Army Combatives 2006. My first MMA fight was in 2001. My last MMA fight was in 2015. I bounced on 6th street in Austin. I've been stabbed twice and shot at overseas. I've got the credentials. Here's some random shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF4zulv2KRQEven though im over 50 and fat now I did an hour of kickboxing last night. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/ySFT8YSmfdrpcste/?mibextid=oFDknk Hmmm...Facebook reels are not my forte... I'd say I've thrown hands with people who have "skill". My point remains, cops who think that applying pain and beating people in the face or breaking their ribs in lieu of getting some skill are serious problems. You sound like one of those guys. That was actually entertaining, nice vid. Lotta judo there, very fun to watch |
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USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:17:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Different culture, difficult to deport.
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:38:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ridgerunner9876]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: That was actually entertaining, nice vid. Lotta judo there, very fun to watch Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: Originally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: Wrong on both counts, Sir. My first kickboxing match was 1995. My first Judo tournament 1996. My first BJJ tournament 1997. I fought at the Mundials in Rio in 2000. I took 3rd in the All Army Combatives 2006. My first MMA fight was in 2001. My last MMA fight was in 2015. I bounced on 6th street in Austin. I've been stabbed twice and shot at overseas. I've got the credentials. Here's some random shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF4zulv2KRQEven though im over 50 and fat now I did an hour of kickboxing last night. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/ySFT8YSmfdrpcste/?mibextid=oFDknk Hmmm...Facebook reels are not my forte... I'd say I've thrown hands with people who have "skill". My point remains, cops who think that applying pain and beating people in the face or breaking their ribs in lieu of getting some skill are serious problems. You sound like one of those guys. That was actually entertaining, nice vid. Lotta judo there, very fun to watch Tai otoshi O goshi kosoto gari (kinda) - - One of my favorites O chi gari. (pronounced ouchie Gary in my school because....ouchie) Are we putting on a clinic?
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:46:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: I'm not defending any LEO's who actually say that (I never heard that uttered), but this is kind of a low resolution view. If I came to work for you as a machinist and never used a certain piece of equipment or executed a certain technique, would you really expect me to pursue training on that at my own expense, and on my own time? And if a state/county/city is going to hold you criminally responsible for literally everything you do (and we all know that's the case times ten), and measure every use of force you conduct with a micrometer, they also retain the obligation to properly train everyone to a competent level, and maintain that. Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't train, and of COURSE they should stay in fucking shape. Any barracks I worked at, the gym was almost always occupied. It's also true that they do offer really good defensive tactics training that some are just going to refuse to attend. It's just kind of a deeper topic than it might seem. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Always found it very odd to hear cops claim something along the lines of "I ain't getting paid to train, so I'm not going to do it". I don't get paid to learn more about machining, but I do because I want to be better. I guess that ends up making me more money but not directly. One would think logic would dictate, if for no other reason than self preservation and to make their job easier, they would spend some personal time or even >gasp< their own money How much personal money do mechanics spend, getting better or specialized tools to make their job easier? Says something about the mentality, I think. I know some cops do train on their own time and dime. Kudos to them. I'm not defending any LEO's who actually say that (I never heard that uttered), but this is kind of a low resolution view. If I came to work for you as a machinist and never used a certain piece of equipment or executed a certain technique, would you really expect me to pursue training on that at my own expense, and on my own time? And if a state/county/city is going to hold you criminally responsible for literally everything you do (and we all know that's the case times ten), and measure every use of force you conduct with a micrometer, they also retain the obligation to properly train everyone to a competent level, and maintain that. Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't train, and of COURSE they should stay in fucking shape. Any barracks I worked at, the gym was almost always occupied. It's also true that they do offer really good defensive tactics training that some are just going to refuse to attend. It's just kind of a deeper topic than it might seem. I've heard it a lot, and from many other places. The consistent pattern is that it was a union thing. If you expect me to be able to "X," you need to give me time "on the clock" to train to be able to do "X." You see this even when it should be a basic prerequisite for the job. Stay in shape, maintain proficiency in skills expected of the job, etc. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:46:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Tai otoshi O goshi Tsurikomi ashi (kinda) Are we putting on a clinic? He definitely did( although its a high light reel, just kidding, a small jab that was tight as fuck) it’s really fun to watch someone really good at it. I think judo is super under rated as a defense when it’s really one of the most effective ones out there. I do like watching true artists bouncing people. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:47:44 PM EDT
[#40]
The issue I have with any of this is that the amount of time and practice required to actually become skilled at grappling will never be sustainable at a department level. Add to that the fact that the better grappler will usually end up with the weapon(s) and I'm not sure I think cops going hands on like this is all that well advised. I'm not saying I have a better idea because pain compliance (taser/oc/baton) also is not a panacea.
The cops that train BJJ at the gym where I do judo have joked about if they see any of us when they roll up on a call they are just gonna keep driving LOL. I think it would take more than those four cops to even get me to the ground much less prevent me from standing back up. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:49:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: The issue I have with any of this is that the amount of time and practice required to actually become skilled at grappling will never be sustainable at a department level. Add to that the fact that the better grappler will usually end up with the weapon(s) and I'm not sure I think cops going hands on like this is all that well advised. I'm not saying I have a better idea because pain compliance (taser/oc/baton) also is not a panacea. The cops that train BJJ at the gym where I do judo have joked about if they see any of us when they roll up on a call they are just gonna keep driving LOL. I think it would take more than those four cops to even get me to the ground much less prevent me from standing back up. Why I believe cops should still have saps. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:52:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: Why I believe cops should still have saps. Are those the little leather flappy-doodles with the weight in them? We've got my wife's grandpa's unit from Chicago PD back in the day. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:54:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Are those the little leather flappy-doodles with the weight in them? We've got my wife's grandpa's unit from Chicago PD back in the day. Old school one. There’s a reason why they carried them. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 12:56:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: He definitely did( although its a high light reel, just kidding, a small jab that was tight as fuck) it’s really fun to watch someone really good at it. I think judo is super under rated as a defense when it’s really one of the most effective ones out there. I do like watching true artists bouncing people. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironknife: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Tai otoshi O goshi Tsurikomi ashi (kinda) Are we putting on a clinic? He definitely did( although its a high light reel, just kidding, a small jab that was tight as fuck) it’s really fun to watch someone really good at it. I think judo is super under rated as a defense when it’s really one of the most effective ones out there. I do like watching true artists bouncing people. You caught my edit.  I mislabeled the third one. It's been a long time since I was able to run through all 65.  The standing choke was great. BJJ has bastardized what jujitsu once was. I agree that judo, even as it existed within jujitsu, before Kano, is very underappreciated. |
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BHS
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Posted: 8/27/2024 1:13:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Thanks for the Judo compliments. I don't do a lot of wrestling takedowns after 12 stitches on the eyebrow from a knee.
Also thanks for not clowning the Facebook reel that didn't hotlink. I'm slow and fat. My comment still stands that 3x per week for 3 month of BJJ at the academy would be excellent training. Good PT that builds confidence and the ability to deal with resistant opponents. They won't be "good" probably the equivalent of a 1 stripe white belt but they would have good understanding of a takedown, side control and mount positions as well as a few armlocks. I understand that grappling presents the opportunity for suspects to grab service weapons, etc. But sometimes you don't get a choice. I see all to often the favored technique expressed in posts here about beating their face, smashing ribs and pain compliance. If you are down there beating their face you could be gift wrapping them up instead. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 1:22:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: You caught my edit. I mislabeled the third one. It's been a long time since I was able to run through all 65. The standing choke was great. BJJ has bastardized what jujitsu once was. I agree that judo, even as it existed within jujitsu, before Kano, is very underappreciated. Standing choke was unexpected, I couldn’t tell how much of it was Gi or not. The Gi chokes are another component of it the adds the value . The Gi chokes seem to come from every where, and with the hoody fad they are especially easy to get. |
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BHS
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Posted: 8/27/2024 1:33:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Impressive, but what I meant by uniform was law enforcement. Actually having done the job you are criticizing. My point remains: The video in the OP was a situation that clearly called for more force than was (allowed to be) used. He would have been in cuffs FAR sooner and with less risk to both himself and those trying to get him under control. It's fair to point out that they also appeared to very much not know what they were doing. If you are taking the position that striking has no place in the use of force by law enforcement and isn't itself "a skill," then I completely disagree with you. It's absolutely a skill, and along with many other things it's absolutely necessary to have it. My position was repeated in my post above. Your preference for beating faces and breaking ribs is not doing cops any favors. From lawsuits to public setiment. Getting him into cuffs "sooner" and with less danger I would disagree with. Broken hands are a real thing with punches. But if you want to reduce all risk I guess just take anyone and everyone before they pose a threat. Otherwise you are going to assume some risk. I'm reminded of the story of Kelly Thomas. You guys keep earning your reputation. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 1:36:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: Thanks for the Judo compliments. I don't do a lot of wrestling takedowns after 12 stitches on the eyebrow from a knee. Also thanks for not clowning the Facebook reel that didn't hotlink. I'm slow and fat. My comment still stands that 3x per week for 3 month of BJJ at the academy would be excellent training. Good PT that builds confidence and the ability to deal with resistant opponents. They won't be "good" probably the equivalent of a 1 stripe white belt but they would have good understanding of a takedown, side control and mount positions as well as a few armlocks. I understand that grappling presents the opportunity for suspects to grab service weapons, etc. But sometimes you don't get a choice. I see all to often the favored technique expressed in posts here about beating their face, smashing ribs and pain compliance. If you are down there beating their face you could be gift wrapping them up instead. I get what Fargo is saying, I went through Norfolk Sheriff academy in 95( navy used it for security training)most of the hands on was pain compliance techniques, I have no idea what cops get taught now. I don’t think he is saying beat heads in or breaking ribs. Most of us aren’t as talented as you are and don’t have the time to get that good. A prod here to keep someone where u want them or move them where u want them is how I read it. I think striking does have a place for sure, but shouldn’t be the first technique to go to unless that’s all u got. Still think the sap moves the bar over to everyone deciding fighting isn’t worth it. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 1:36:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ShermanMcCoy: Pffft - that's nothing compared to this woman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNDZZTFGfQWhat a piece of shit. That poor kid. 
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USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 1:54:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: Man, I feel terrible for that kid. No kidding. That's heartbreaking. At least his grandma seems like she cares about him. |
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