User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:11:16 PM EST
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:12:20 PM EST
[#1]
Gotta do something with them. We spent maybe 1-2 months a year using ours and the rest of the time was maintnence.
 In the type of warfare going on I dont see them being much more than rocket bait. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:14:25 PM EST
[#2]
Another Ukraine thread that discusses all the same shit that people have been discussing for months....with the exact same result. . |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:14:45 PM EST
[#3]
If your gonna supply them Abrams, better add one fuel tanker per tank as well.
Thats a big NO for me, fuck UK |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:16:03 PM EST
[#4]
Rather they go to Taiwan.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:16:17 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another Ukraine thread that discusses all the same shit that people have been discussing for months....with the exact same result. .  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:17:28 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rather they go to Taiwan. Second. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:19:18 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your gonna supply them Abrams, better add one fuel tanker per tank as well. Thats a big NO for me, fuck UK  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:21:05 PM EST
[#8]
Used models that we've parked for permanent storage on a lend lease program.
Order new models that have self protection systems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:21:11 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another Ukraine thread that discusses all the same shit that people have been discussing for months....with the exact same result. . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/7A3BA15C-AEA9-4F1B-810C-EA6D7CEC21ED_jpe-2540734.JPG Seriously dude, NOBODY CARES. Russians doing Russian stuff. They're dicks, we know. We're more worried about the Brett Favre volleyball scandal. Which means NOT AT ALL. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:22:41 PM EST
[#10]
Not just no, but fuck no.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:23:09 PM EST
[#11]
at some point we become combatants in this....we are VERY close to it and this is not a good idea
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:23:36 PM EST
[#12]
They can go to Afghanistan and pick them up for free.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:23:56 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta do something with them. We spent maybe 1-2 months a year using ours and the rest of the time was maintnence. In the type of warfare going on I dont see them being much more than rocket bait. You mean combined arms offensive operations where you need some kind of protected fires? Tanks are vulnerable, yes. Everything else even more so. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:25:08 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously dude, NOBODY CARES. Russians doing Russian stuff. They're dicks, we know. We're more worried about the Brett Favre volleyball scandal. Which means NOT AT ALL. Have you not noticed every poll I post includes I don’t care?  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:26:13 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They can go to Afghanistan and pick them up for free. How many M1s did the Afghan Army have? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:27:28 PM EST
[#16]
Fuck Ukraine and Russia. Not another dime.
But part of me selfishly would like to see a large tank battle with Abrams vs T90s just to relive my Clancy and Larry Bond days. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:28:07 PM EST
[#17]
M60A3 with latest 120mm gun and Reactive Armor upgrades?
Sure. It’s better than any T72 version the Russians have. Send them first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:29:15 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many M1s did the Afghan Army have? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They can go to Afghanistan and pick them up for free. How many M1s did the Afghan Army have? Was more of just a play on the waste of military equipment. Now I believe Iraq may have a few they can loan. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:30:24 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean combined arms offensive operations where you need some kind of protected fires? Tanks are vulnerable, yes. Everything else even more so. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gotta do something with them. We spent maybe 1-2 months a year using ours and the rest of the time was maintnence. In the type of warfare going on I dont see them being much more than rocket bait. You mean combined arms offensive operations where you need some kind of protected fires? Tanks are vulnerable, yes. Everything else even more so. With a well-trained crew- maybe With a bunch of pre-K education level ditch shitters, maybe for a few weeks then they will fuck them up and bury them turning them into defensive positions using the manual controls to aim. You will for sure find someone stealing one with a tractor and possibly someone else trying to put a power pack in a tractor. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:30:49 PM EST
[#20]
No.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:31:04 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Used models that we've parked for permanent storage on a lend lease program. Order new models that have self protection systems. All my unit's SEP V2s were reworked A1s, all the SEP V3s will/are reworked old ones as well. I vote give no Abrams to Ukraine. Even though there is like 3000 in the desert of California. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:31:37 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you not noticed every poll I post includes I don’t care? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/DFBFDA14-655F-4D4C-95C7-172DD8BC7CF8_jpe-2540746.JPG Yeah, I picked that, OBVIOUSLY. Let's get on to something that matters. You know McFarland. Is The Orville season four gonna happen? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:32:37 PM EST
[#23]
I'd rather we just give them one NLAW in trade for each hot-ass Ukrainian model they get out of the country.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:33:34 PM EST
[#24]
Does anyone else notice how we are on a runaway train giving away the bank and everything else? We are depleting our national defense reserves by blindly dumping them into a lost cause to be grinded up into ash. This has to leave us extremely vulnerable to the world. It's as if we are racing towards insignificance and helplessness.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:35:31 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone else notice how we are on a runaway train giving away the bank and everything else? We are depleting our national defense reserves by blindly dumping them into a lost cause to be grinded up into ash. This has to leave us extremely vulnerable to the world. It's as if we are racing towards insignificance and helplessness. Almost like there's a plan. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:40:20 PM EST
[#26]
Even if we had M60A3 sitting in the desert, I very much doubt we have spare parts stocks for them anymore, and we certainly don't have any personnel who isn't pushing 60 years old who ever maintained them.
M1 Abrams "could" work, but there are shit load of "IFs". The Poles are just now receiving theirs and starting to train, but it will take months or years before they have all the back-end stuff in place and well exercised to support them. Other posters pointed out that fuel consumption is a concern, and I agree. The AGT1500 is multi-fuel and can burn almost anything, but unless they received upgraded models with APU, then the tanks might create more problems than they solve. Tank transporters (HETs or similar) is another problem, and it is almost 2x worse with the Abrams compared to a T-72 model.  Some of you guys act like Ukraine is getting "something for nothing"...the US taxpayer already paid for them, decades ago, and now we have a chance to use them for what they were intended to do, which is slay Russians. And we don't even have to do it with American troops! In true ARFCOM fashion, we should "get both": give Abrams to Taiwan AND Ukraine. We can work out the details of payment for later batches. The Abrams will be in service for a long time, so it could help us lower our costs of spare parts, or have a built in customer base for future upgrades that we want for ourselves. IRAQ got the damn things, for crying out loud. I at least have confidence Taiwan and Ukraine will be more grateful, and put them to better use. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:40:46 PM EST
[#27]
Give old hulls we would have given away sooner rather than later anyway, buy new, better ones and keep the production lines open, and rope another nation into the FMS honeypot... not the worst thing.
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a well-trained crew- maybe With a bunch of pre-K education level ditch shitters, maybe for a few weeks then they will fuck them up and bury them turning them into defensive positions using the manual controls to aim. You will for sure find someone stealing one with a tractor and possibly someone else trying to put a power pack in a tractor. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/1e/d2/d31ed2242878e92d2d89625e104e9383.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: With a well-trained crew- maybe With a bunch of pre-K education level ditch shitters, maybe for a few weeks then they will fuck them up and bury them turning them into defensive positions using the manual controls to aim. You will for sure find someone stealing one with a tractor and possibly someone else trying to put a power pack in a tractor. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/1e/d2/d31ed2242878e92d2d89625e104e9383.jpg Those pre-K education level ditch shitters are doing remarkably well integrating the motley collection of western equipment they are getting and mounting well coordinated, brigade+ level maneuver warfare with it. To put in in perspective, no one has done it at scale as well as they have since the 2003 Iraq invasion. Quoted: Was more of just a play on the waste of military equipment. Now I believe Iraq may have a few they can loan. They would have more than a few. As much as well play up all the equipment the afghan security forces lost; there was not much of consequence. Hardly any major combat systems. Zillions of ranger pickups, navistar trucks, and 1114 HMMWVs... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:43:07 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone else notice how we are on a runaway train giving away the bank and everything else? We are depleting our national defense reserves by blindly dumping them into a lost cause to be grinded up into ash. This has to leave us extremely vulnerable to the world. It's as if we are racing towards insignificance and helplessness. The U.S. hasn't given away any first-line equipment aside from expendable munitions, and even that has been old stock or legacy versions. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:43:11 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if we had M60A3 sitting in the desert, I very much doubt we have spare parts stocks for them anymore, and we certainly don't have any personnel who isn't pushing 60 years old who ever maintained them. M1 Abrams "could" work, but there are shit load of "IFs". The Poles are just now receiving theirs and starting to train, but it will take months or years before they have all the back-end stuff in place and well exercised to support them. Other posters pointed out that fuel consumption is a concern, and I agree. The AGT1500 is multi-fuel and can burn almost anything, but unless they received upgraded models with APU, then the tanks might create more problems than they solve. Tank transporters (HETs or similar) is another problem, and it is almost 2x worse with the Abrams compared to a T-72 model. Some of you guys act like Ukraine is getting "something for nothing"...the US taxpayer already paid for them, decades ago, and now we have a chance to use them for what they were intended to do, which is slay Russians. And we don't even have to do it with American troops! In true ARFCOM fashion, we should "get both": give Abrams to Taiwan AND Ukraine. We can work out the details of payment for later batches. The Abrams will be in service for a long time, so it could help us lower our costs of spare parts, or have a built in customer base for future upgrades that we want for ourselves. IRAQ got the damn things, for crying out loud. I at least have confidence Taiwan and Ukraine will be more grateful, and put them to better use. I have paid off cars but that doesn’t mean I’m giving them away just because they are paid for. They want tanks? Fine, pay market price including all transportation costs. We have enough freeloaders here to not add another country. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:46:44 PM EST
[#30]
The simplemindedness is strong in this thread.
Yes, we should give them tanks. And anything else they need to fuck up russia. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:47:05 PM EST
[#31]
ITT: Like moths to a flame.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:48:31 PM EST
[#32]
Poland is at the earliest stages. It would be cool but I don't see how Ukraine could be ready in time.
 How the Abrams is Changing Poland’s Tank Force |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:50:36 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rather they go to Taiwan. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:50:41 PM EST
[#34]
Is Ukraine losing tank on tank engagements? This sounds like a solution to a non-existant problem.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:51:17 PM EST
[#35]
How much better are our tanks vs the Russian tanks? Will it be a game changer like the HIMARS?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:52:25 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have paid off cars but that doesn’t mean I’m giving them away just because they are paid for. They want tanks? Fine, pay market price including all transportation costs. We have enough freeloaders here to not add another country. I'm OK with them paying something; Poland is paying for theirs. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:52:32 PM EST
[#37]
Are we talking U.S. Abrams tanks or export "monkey models"?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 9:53:21 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd rather we just give them one NLAW in trade for each hot-ass Ukrainian model they get out of the country. See, now this guy fuckin gets it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:01:16 PM EST
[#39]
Semi related: Would the Abrams do any better in UK mudseason than anything else over there? They are about two weeks from being ass deep in quagmire.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:06:58 PM EST
[#40]
Well, the Marines aren’t using them anymore…
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:14:01 PM EST
[#41]
Anyone in favor of this does not understand the logistical tail M1s require.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:14:26 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if we had M60A3 sitting in the desert, I very much doubt we have spare parts stocks for them anymore, and we certainly don't have any personnel who isn't pushing 60 years old who ever maintained them. M1 Abrams "could" work, but there are shit load of "IFs". The Poles are just now receiving theirs and starting to train, but it will take months or years before they have all the back-end stuff in place and well exercised to support them. Other posters pointed out that fuel consumption is a concern, and I agree. The AGT1500 is multi-fuel and can burn almost anything, but unless they received upgraded models with APU, then the tanks might create more problems than they solve. Tank transporters (HETs or similar) is another problem, and it is almost 2x worse with the Abrams compared to a T-72 model. Some of you guys act like Ukraine is getting "something for nothing"...the US taxpayer already paid for them, decades ago, and now we have a chance to use them for what they were intended to do, which is slay Russians. And we don't even have to do it with American troops! im 54.. 45E 45N Turret Mech M60A3 M1A1 In true ARFCOM fashion, we should "get both": give Abrams to Taiwan AND Ukraine. We can work out the details of payment for later batches. The Abrams will be in service for a long time, so it could help us lower our costs of spare parts, or have a built in customer base for future upgrades that we want for ourselves. IRAQ got the damn things, for crying out loud. I at least have confidence Taiwan and Ukraine will be more grateful, and put them to better use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:16:29 PM EST
[#43]
Euros were gonna send Kraut Tanks, but they ran out of gas. oops.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:17:40 PM EST
[#44]
Fuck yes! Just because I want to see how well they do against to Russians in T-XX variants.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:20:59 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone in favor of this does not understand the logistical tail M1s require. Ironic, because when I've posted about the logistical tail that M1s require you've told me it isn't that big a deal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:22:31 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone in favor of this does not understand the logistical tail M1s require. Shit, just the maintenance involved. Its not just tanks, you need the ammo HEMTTs, the fuel trucks because 9 gals a mile drains them fast. Then you have second wave support about 2-3Ks behind the main push. Mechanics and repair personnel. Its a big NO from me dawg. that puts us out of a proxy war and into a toe to toe with Russia. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:23:26 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone else notice how we are on a runaway train giving away the bank and everything else? We are depleting our national defense reserves by blindly dumping them into a lost cause to be grinded up into ash. This has to leave us extremely vulnerable to the world. It's as if we are racing towards insignificance and helplessness. You've got it all wrong. We bought those tanks to fight Russians. When this war is over the Russians will be damn near out of tanks. So who are we supposed to use to justify having a large Army? What's most likely to come from this is Russia on its knees and an Army struggling to remain relevant. Six months ago they were making the case for a reinforced division designed to penetrate deep into the Russian rear. Six months from now we are likely to see deep cuts to defense spending and reorientation away from land power towards sea and air power. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:23:56 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a well-trained crew- maybe With a bunch of pre-K education level ditch shitters, maybe for a few weeks then they will fuck them up and bury them turning them into defensive positions using the manual controls to aim. You will for sure find someone stealing one with a tractor and possibly someone else trying to put a power pack in a tractor. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/1e/d2/d31ed2242878e92d2d89625e104e9383.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:24:58 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its a big NO from me dawg. that puts us out of a proxy war and into a toe to toe with Russia. You think the North Vietnamese build their own SAMs and the North Koreans built their own MiGs? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2022 10:26:32 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think the North Vietnamese build their own SAMs and the North Koreans built their own MiGs? Apples and Oranges.. |
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File