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Posted: 11/23/2023 11:04:44 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recoilless rifles and RPGs are NOT safe. And I say that as someone who rebuilt and fired a Form 1 M18A1 57 mm recoilless rifle using full house loads. These guns are temperamental on their best days as factory fresh guns with factory fresh ammo. Civilians are commonly shooting demilled and rewelded examples with tired out parts of questionable origin. The ammo is a reconstituted “close enough” affair. Oh, and tolerance stacking is real. My rounds involved mixing 1.1 pounds of .50 powder with various black powders. All of that was set off by a .50 primer touching off a few hundred grains of Fffg black powder, which set off everything else. Now imagine all of that balanced on your shoulder. I’d be a hypocrite for telling you not to do what I did. But I will offer some advice based on my own first hand experience. If you get into recoilless rifles, I strongly recommend firing them ONLY at private shoots, from a tripod, and at the end of a long lanyard. Clear any spectators to a safe distance, preferably behind something big, thick, and heavy. These are absolutely NOT the guns for public or well-attended shoots. I’d also say that even the most respectful and knowledgeable minors shouldn’t be firing these things. Too much chance for bad things to happen through no fault of the minor, which means too much liability for the recoilless owner. FWIW, my first test fire went poorly. Despite an excellent and properly inspected welding job, the weld gave way. If it wasn’t on a tripod, it absolutely would have killed the shooter. If you want to do it, go for it. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking it’s an inherently safe gun. Don’t get complacent either. All this applies for RPGs, too. I don’t know the shooter or watch that channel. But I truly hope he comes out okay with minimal to no permanent injuries. Thank you for the insight. I have never had the desire to play with or be around any HE equipment. The video and your account reinforces my feelings. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 11:28:07 AM EST
[#2]
As to the smoke coming out the middle of the RPG: The RPG7 (and 2) have a transverse mounted firing pin. The firing pin has a flange that is supposed to seal the firing pin channel from gas blowing out, but sometimes it does. The RPG2 actually has a vent that diverts blow-by gas to the right side of the shooter. While the RPG7 doesn't, they use the same firing pin. I don't believe smoke during shooting indicates anything other than smoke during shooting.
Launch motors The PG7 uses a smokeless launch motor, while the PG2 uses black powder. The black powder charge has a series of cardboard bulkheads (about 5 as I recall) with holes through the middle to make the burn more progressive. The PG2 should use cannon grade BP, which is a larger grain size which causes the BP to burn slower. Not an expert, but I think the 'obstruction' was too far away to affect what was happening inside the tube. I think it is more likely the wrong BP grain size was used, no cardboard baffles, too large of a charge, or some combination of the above. I would also have questions about the 're-watting' of the launcher, if in fact it is a re-built launcher. RPGs with commie rockets do not have a reputation for being dangerous to the shooter. Normal failure mode is 'click' with no rocket launch (for a variety of reasons). I am curious to the differences in pressure and the pressure curves of using black powder in a launcher designed for smokeless, but the commies were pretty good at making their systems 'idiot proof', and I suspect the launcher should be able to take the BP round under normal circumstances. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 12:28:25 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A HE 200 dollar stamped Gustav round would Be ordinance, bait, and tackle all in one. You wouldn’t even need to gas up your boat just use a landing net.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 12:41:50 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok now I don't want an RPG  |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 12:51:01 PM EST
[#5]
Good thing he had on PPE.
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Posted: 11/23/2023 12:59:55 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. PSA here, your PSA is wrong. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:02:15 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol okay commando I guess I shouldn't have told my wife to call 911 as I rushed out of the car down the embankment to save a family that that got into a wreck in front of us, roll it ng down a hill off the interstate. "Hold up guys, can't come down there yet.....gotta call 911 myself since WesJanson said it's stupid to tell someone else to" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. Lol okay commando I guess I shouldn't have told my wife to call 911 as I rushed out of the car down the embankment to save a family that that got into a wreck in front of us, roll it ng down a hill off the interstate. "Hold up guys, can't come down there yet.....gotta call 911 myself since WesJanson said it's stupid to tell someone else to" If you're telling a specific person to call and they understand it, that's good. Shouting "call 911!!" randomly without a specific person who will listen and obey isn't good. If you've got your wife next to you who can count on to do it, then great. This is precisely why the most current CPR and related first responder med classes teach NOT to shout "call 911" blindly, but to POINT to a person and instruct them "YOU! CALL 911!". Because otherwise it's way too common that everyone just assumes someone else is going to do it. Otherwise, it's far better to just dial 911 to get the call going while moving in to start assessing. You are capable of walking and talking at the same time, are you not? Press the power button, hit Emergency Call, then start talking as you move in, assess, and start working. Your initial call will immediately create a call screen at the local dispatch center, and if they hear someone going "ARE YOU OKAY? WHERE ARE YOU BLEEDING?" etc in the background, they're going to immediately start rolling EMS. You don't have to have a conversation with them, you can just start talking and get out whatever you can, they'll figure it out. If you go running down the embankment, your wife freezes, and you start doing CPR, are you going to notice if she calls or doesn't call? How long are you going to do CPR until you get worn out? In my personal life, I've probably had to call 911 at least 30 or 40 times over the years. On an average work week, I'm probably going to about half that many 911 calls as the responder. So no, I'm not a "commando", I'm giving generalized advice that if everyone were to implement themselves, would often times massively increase response times on scene (and occasionally save an extra life or two). |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:07:07 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They blur what everyone wants to see? What a worthless fucking video. . He'll just tazering someone will cause you to getting demonetized |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:08:49 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're telling a specific person to call and they understand it, that's good. Shouting "call 911!!" randomly without a specific person who will listen and obey isn't good. Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're telling a specific person to call and they understand it, that's good. Shouting "call 911!!" randomly without a specific person who will listen and obey isn't good. There were literally three people on site, i'm pretty sure one of the other two picked up on the fact that the verbal command was directed towards them. The guy also made it to the hospital and lived, so we can assume the correct actions were taken. You have very basic advice that you are trying to shoehorn into a scenario where it really doesn't apply. Quoted: Otherwise, it's far better to just dial 911 to get the call going while moving in to start assessing. You are capable of walking and talking at the same time, are you not? Press the power button, hit Emergency Call, then start talking as you move in, assess, and start working. Your initial call will immediately create a call screen at the local dispatch center, and if they hear someone going "ARE YOU OKAY? WHERE ARE YOU BLEEDING?" etc in the background, they're going to immediately start rolling EMS. You don't have to have a conversation with them, you can just start talking and get out whatever you can, they'll figure it out. If you go running down the embankment, your wife freezes, and you start doing CPR, are you going to notice if she calls or doesn't call? How long are you going to do CPR until you get worn out? This is absolutely horrible advice. if you actually know what you are doing you are using your hands to control bleeding while you are verbally engaging the patient. Holding the phone with your chin while you are trying to talk to two people at once while applying rapid physical actions is ridiculous. They are going to automatically start rolling EMS to where? While you are doing patient evaluation and expecting the operator to pick up on everything from you yelling in the background are you also giving directions to the middle of the empty field on private property this guy is lying in? The person standing there with their fucking mouth open doing nothing can talk with the 911 operator just fine, and can probably narrow down the location a lot faster than the 911 operator listening to you scream at the patient in the background. Priority one is hemorrhage control, because i'm pretty sure EMS won't be anywhere in less than 3 minutes no matter when you made the call. Yelling for someone to call EMS while moving to conduct that is ideal, versus you fucking everything up because you don't trust somebody else to make a phone call. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:12:32 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question truly is whether or not there's a sufficient market to be worthwhile, particularly given the exceedingly high liability attached to manufacturing and selling such a product. On the one hand, the endless production of Barrett 82/107s seems to indicate there's a substantial market for $10k toy guns. On the other hand, there's also basically zero other competition in the semi 50 market (a handful of M2 manufacturers making a few dozen guns here and there, Mark Serbu making a few dozen guns here and there, and the Pauza, basically, plus a couple of prototypes from other companies over the years). The 203 market is likewise sparse. There's a modest number of Lahtis, Boys, and similar floating around out there, but realistically the total number of market transactions for them annually, across the country, is probably countable on hands and feet. Anzio stopped making the 20mm, and there's a grand total of one single 20mm of any make at all on GB right now. Would a $10k RPG-7 with say $500 shells sell in any quantity? I'm not terribly convinced. If they were real HEAT rounds, and the explosives license side of things were magically waivered, I could maybe see it. But then you also have to take into account one of the biggest limiting factors of any such toy: having a place to shoot it. The overall fraction of the adult population in the US that has reasonably easy access (under an hour drive, say) to a place where DDs can be shot is probably only 5-10%. That drastically limits the number of people interested in paying to play. I can guarantee if I could source real rpg rounds I would have launched one off my back porch by now and broken a window with the back blast. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:25:51 PM EST
[#11]
That’s it, this thing goes in the trash to-day!
 J/K: de-milled and always will be/static display only. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:40:14 PM EST
[#12]
The comment at the end about safety made me lol. They seem to be amateurs who really do not take explosive safety seriously. I would pose to guess that a nomex balaclava, and 100% cotton or nomex long sleeves would have significantly reduced the burn damage he apparently experienced. Also, if they truly were newly designed / first flight rounds, a series of static fire tests would have been extremely easy to have set up, to start and sort out potential issues.
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:46:29 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were literally three people on site, i'm pretty sure one of the other two picked up on the fact that the verbal command was directed towards them. The guy also made it to the hospital and lived, so we can assume the correct actions were taken. You have very basic advice that you are trying to shoehorn into a scenario where it really doesn't apply. This is absolutely horrible advice. if you actually know what you are doing you are using your hands to control bleeding while you are verbally engaging the patient. Holding the phone with your chin while you are trying to talk to two people at once while applying rapid physical actions is ridiculous. They are going to automatically start rolling EMS to where? While you are doing patient evaluation and expecting the operator to pick up on everything from you yelling in the background are you also giving directions to the middle of the empty field on private property this guy is lying in? The person standing there with their fucking mouth open doing nothing can talk with the 911 operator just fine, and can probably narrow down the location a lot faster than the 911 operator listening to you scream at the patient in the background. Priority one is hemorrhage control, because i'm pretty sure EMS won't be anywhere in less than 3 minutes no matter when you made the call. Yelling for someone to call EMS while moving to conduct that is ideal, versus you fucking everything up because you don't trust somebody else to make a phone call. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you're telling a specific person to call and they understand it, that's good. Shouting "call 911!!" randomly without a specific person who will listen and obey isn't good. There were literally three people on site, i'm pretty sure one of the other two picked up on the fact that the verbal command was directed towards them. The guy also made it to the hospital and lived, so we can assume the correct actions were taken. You have very basic advice that you are trying to shoehorn into a scenario where it really doesn't apply. Quoted: Otherwise, it's far better to just dial 911 to get the call going while moving in to start assessing. You are capable of walking and talking at the same time, are you not? Press the power button, hit Emergency Call, then start talking as you move in, assess, and start working. Your initial call will immediately create a call screen at the local dispatch center, and if they hear someone going "ARE YOU OKAY? WHERE ARE YOU BLEEDING?" etc in the background, they're going to immediately start rolling EMS. You don't have to have a conversation with them, you can just start talking and get out whatever you can, they'll figure it out. If you go running down the embankment, your wife freezes, and you start doing CPR, are you going to notice if she calls or doesn't call? How long are you going to do CPR until you get worn out? This is absolutely horrible advice. if you actually know what you are doing you are using your hands to control bleeding while you are verbally engaging the patient. Holding the phone with your chin while you are trying to talk to two people at once while applying rapid physical actions is ridiculous. They are going to automatically start rolling EMS to where? While you are doing patient evaluation and expecting the operator to pick up on everything from you yelling in the background are you also giving directions to the middle of the empty field on private property this guy is lying in? The person standing there with their fucking mouth open doing nothing can talk with the 911 operator just fine, and can probably narrow down the location a lot faster than the 911 operator listening to you scream at the patient in the background. Priority one is hemorrhage control, because i'm pretty sure EMS won't be anywhere in less than 3 minutes no matter when you made the call. Yelling for someone to call EMS while moving to conduct that is ideal, versus you fucking everything up because you don't trust somebody else to make a phone call. Daemon's got a couple of good points here, Wes. Thanks all, I learned quite a bit from this A touch heated, but w/e, we're men. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 2:29:05 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is that they had that fake head WAY too close to the back of the tube. It obstructed enough of the pressure evacuation to cause a catastrophic failure of the tube. I'm no fluid dynamics guy, but that was my first thought too. Also, treating ordinance like toys is pretty careless (AKA stupid). I do know of solid rocket motors failing gloriously just from pieces of dislodged unburned propellant passing through the nozzle. Obstructing the rocket nozzle even momentarily causes spikes that can lead to overpressure/over-temp run away and all that follows happens quickly. Rocket stops being a rocket and becomes a pipe bomb. Don't know if somebodies big fat nugget a foot away is sufficient to do the same thing, but I wouldn't bet against it either. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 3:58:34 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm no fluid dynamics guy, but that was my first thought too. Also, treating ordinance like toys is pretty careless (AKA stupid). I do know of solid rocket motors failing gloriously just from pieces of dislodged unburned propellant passing through the nozzle. Obstructing the rocket nozzle even momentarily causes spikes that can lead to overpressure/over-temp run away and all that follows happens quickly. Rocket stops being a rocket and becomes a pipe bomb. Don't know if somebodies big fat nugget a foot away is sufficient to do the same thing, but I wouldn't bet against it either. They didn’t use rocket motors. Purely black powder booster charge. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 4:19:09 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get five dollar glasses if you have five dollar eyes! I have these... worth every penny! https://www.gatorz.com/products/blastshield?variant=42757740331185 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looked to me like they obstructed the backblast quite a bit, whether that was part of it is kind of hard to tell without more info and unblurred photos/video. Shooting stuff like that without safety glasses (the other guy) is weapons grade retarded. Glasses cost like $5. Is your eyesight worth that? Get five dollar glasses if you have five dollar eyes! I have these... worth every penny! https://www.gatorz.com/products/blastshield?variant=42757740331185 I have shot the $5 glasses with 12 gauge birdshot at 10 yards. Held up fine. Good cheap demo to do at training to get people to think about using eye protection. I run Oakleys for sunglasses, but my clears are like $15 ones with reading glasses inserts in the lower corners. (Getting old sucks). |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 4:30:11 PM EST
[#17]
I feel like he’s really lucky to be alive. That could have easily cut into his jugular or carotid arteries and caused him to bleed out in seconds.
From the video, he has third degree burns and some broken bones. Possibly his hand/arm bones? I’d be really interested to see the high speed footage uncensored. It would probably give pretty good insight into what went wrong. Glad he’s expected to make a full recovery. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 4:50:41 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. I assume a paramedic would yell that as he begins triage and treatment |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 5:30:08 PM EST
[#19]
I think this has been covered previously, but the RPG-7 and RPG-2 handle propulsion very differently. RPG-2 is black powder booster only and that’s all that provides the propulsion. RPG-7 has a booster to get it out of the tube and then the rocket takes over to provide the proportion the rest of the way.
1: That looks like a lot of black powder being used for the propulsion charge. If you look people shooting RPG-2’s using their own charge, there isn’t nearly that much flame coming out either end. My guess is they were using definitely more black powder than people typically use or it was the wrong grain. 2. The head close to the exit definitely might have caused some over pressure. 3. I don’t know about that particular RPG, but there are a limited number of unmolested RPG-7’s in the USA. Almost all of those are dealer sample guns since they were imported. I think there’s a good chunk of ones out there that were demilled and have been reactivated on a form one that have just been rewelded. If it was a reweld of a demil launcher, the 40mm hole cut into the side that was repaired is usually located under the heat shields right next to where the operators head would be. It’s hard to speculate based off of the blurred footage but basically if a previously demil launcher was reactivated had an incident of overpressure, the most likely place for it to blow out is where the repair was located, which would be right next to the operators head/face. 4. Unless you have one of the RPG-7 subcals or you want to reactivate a RPG-7 just to say you have one, to reactivate a launcher just to shoot should be the RPG-2. I have an RPG-7 I reactivated but I only use my Czech 7.62x39mm subcal with it and since it’s self-contained, there’s no pressure worries. The RPG-2 is only one designed to shoot a black powder only load and newly manufactured tubes are available so you can purchase a new RPG-2 tube, Form 1 it, then cut off the sights and sling mounts from the old tube. Use the jig available to cut the notch in the front for the rocket indexing as well as align and weld on the vent block and the other piece that holds on the grip. Weld on the front and rear sight and now you have a virgin tube RPG-2 made of better material than the original that you won’t have to worry about having a repaired hole right next to your head.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 6:48:40 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pa-2a.com is memory holed, but it looks like he was selling these “experiences” to the public. Using homebrew rounds.  You're right, I was looking at their Instagram page a while back then after this video came out I went back trying to find them, but guessed they deleted their account. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 7:12:13 PM EST
[#21]
Watching the vid again, as others have mentioned, the launch motor is too long. I'm wondering if it was long enough to reach the end of the expansion chamber and 'cork' the hole on the back. The black powder burn will start at the front, and travel down the tube. If the back end of the launch motor was blocking the back door, I think that might do it.
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Posted: 11/23/2023 8:51:05 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. Oh for Christ's sakes. You would think that somebody there was laughing and making jokes, or asking what's for lunch. Do you over analyze everything like that? |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 11:38:20 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. This is how I know you're not a trained responder. If you're trained, render aid while someone else calls. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 11:45:48 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Their response was appropriate. That's how we train our military, call for help first, start rendering aid/fighting the fight/patching the sinking ship. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 12:05:03 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is how I know you're not a trained responder. If you're trained, render aid while someone else calls. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. This is how I know you're not a trained responder. If you're trained, render aid while someone else calls. No, it means I've actually listened and paid attention in the mandatory CPR refresher classes we have to take as a first responder. The training protocol has changed in recent years. It's not "shout to call 911". It's "direct a specific person to call 911, and identify who you want to call 911 by pointing at them or identifying them". https://cpritworks.com/cpr-training/ Either you do it or make sure someone else takes responsibility for calling — for example, point specifically at someone and say “Call 911”. And just dialing the number and giving minimal info if you have no choice is also advised by professional instructors: https://www.cprcertificationonlinehq.com/blog/call-911 So what can you do? You can use your common sense and realize that you are not superman or woman. However, you probably do have a cell phone. If you put the cell phone on speaker and dial 911 (see figure 1) immediately upon realizing that you are alone, YOU will be talking to a 911 dispatcher within 15 seconds. Once you get connected you tell the dispatcher you are alone and are performing CPR. The dispatcher will immediately push the call button and signal the Emergency Medical Service personnel to respond to your location. While you are doing compressions you can tell the dispatcher where you are. Now you have people with life- saving equipment on their way to help you. Not only didn’t you neglect the victim, you actually acted in a responsible fashion and gave the victim the greatest chance for survival. As a side note it is important for the victim and for you to keep your phone’s location on E-911. If something happens to you and your phone is on the rescuers can locate you. The problem with just "call 911!" as a pure concept with no further context or direction, is that people tend not to do it, or get distracted, or think someone else is going to do it. Realistically, either you say it to a person who clearly understands and you can tell is going to obey you, or just fucking do it yourself. When you roll up on a call solo, that's basically exactly what I'm doing every time - giving info over the radio, evaluating, rendering aid, and directing further response. It's not rocket science....as building a safe RPG clearly is. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 1:24:35 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it means I've actually listened and paid attention in the mandatory CPR refresher classes we have to take as a first responder. The training protocol has changed in recent years. It's not "shout to call 911". It's "direct a specific person to call 911, and identify who you want to call 911 by pointing at them or identifying them". https://cpritworks.com/cpr-training/ And just dialing the number and giving minimal info if you have no choice is also advised by professional instructors: https://www.cprcertificationonlinehq.com/blog/call-911 The problem with just "call 911!" as a pure concept with no further context or direction, is that people tend not to do it, or get distracted, or think someone else is going to do it. Realistically, either you say it to a person who clearly understands and you can tell is going to obey you, or just fucking do it yourself. When you roll up on a call solo, that's basically exactly what I'm doing every time - giving info over the radio, evaluating, rendering aid, and directing further response. It's not rocket science....as building a safe RPG clearly is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. This is how I know you're not a trained responder. If you're trained, render aid while someone else calls. No, it means I've actually listened and paid attention in the mandatory CPR refresher classes we have to take as a first responder. The training protocol has changed in recent years. It's not "shout to call 911". It's "direct a specific person to call 911, and identify who you want to call 911 by pointing at them or identifying them". https://cpritworks.com/cpr-training/ Either you do it or make sure someone else takes responsibility for calling — for example, point specifically at someone and say “Call 911”. And just dialing the number and giving minimal info if you have no choice is also advised by professional instructors: https://www.cprcertificationonlinehq.com/blog/call-911 So what can you do? You can use your common sense and realize that you are not superman or woman. However, you probably do have a cell phone. If you put the cell phone on speaker and dial 911 (see figure 1) immediately upon realizing that you are alone, YOU will be talking to a 911 dispatcher within 15 seconds. Once you get connected you tell the dispatcher you are alone and are performing CPR. The dispatcher will immediately push the call button and signal the Emergency Medical Service personnel to respond to your location. While you are doing compressions you can tell the dispatcher where you are. Now you have people with life- saving equipment on their way to help you. Not only didn’t you neglect the victim, you actually acted in a responsible fashion and gave the victim the greatest chance for survival. As a side note it is important for the victim and for you to keep your phone’s location on E-911. If something happens to you and your phone is on the rescuers can locate you. The problem with just "call 911!" as a pure concept with no further context or direction, is that people tend not to do it, or get distracted, or think someone else is going to do it. Realistically, either you say it to a person who clearly understands and you can tell is going to obey you, or just fucking do it yourself. When you roll up on a call solo, that's basically exactly what I'm doing every time - giving info over the radio, evaluating, rendering aid, and directing further response. It's not rocket science....as building a safe RPG clearly is. As an EMT I'm not going to be the guy that calls 911 while my buddy with no training administers aid. Our experiences are different. I'm not yelling for anyone to call 911, I'm telling someone to do it. My skills are better utilized by me not being the guy on the phone. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 2:41:45 PM EST
[#27]
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Posted: 12/11/2023 9:46:55 PM EST
[#28]
Anybody post the tube that 'sploded yet?
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Posted: 12/11/2023 10:29:21 PM EST
[#29]
Here’s the text that went with the splody pipe pic.
 I think they’re lucky he was wearing some actual protective gear and not just shooting in flip flops and wearing aviator glasses. |
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Posted: 12/11/2023 10:53:51 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd argue the opposite - you can't assess and apply emergency first aid AND call 911 at the same time.. (unless you ask Siri to). At every live-fire training class I've taken at least two students are designated as 911 callers - reason being the instructors usually have more medical training. (though my last pistol class there was a medical doctor as a student) I've only seen a few of the BHS videos, they do make good stuff - here's hoping Adam makes a full recovery. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. I'd argue the opposite - you can't assess and apply emergency first aid AND call 911 at the same time.. (unless you ask Siri to). At every live-fire training class I've taken at least two students are designated as 911 callers - reason being the instructors usually have more medical training. (though my last pistol class there was a medical doctor as a student) I've only seen a few of the BHS videos, they do make good stuff - here's hoping Adam makes a full recovery. Same here. |
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Posted: 12/11/2023 10:56:37 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here’s the text that went with the splody pipe pic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84345/IMG_7703-3057084.jpg I think they’re lucky he was wearing some actual protective gear and not just shooting in flip flops and wearing aviator glasses. That hole looks way too much of a square and in the same location as the demil hole usually is. I still think it was the demil location but we’ll see. They specifically said the weld didn’t fail so maybe something else happened with the patch but it just looks like it’s the same spot it usually is. And maybe it’s just me, but that area of the launcher is seamless pipe so I’m trying to get my head around how it could’ve failed in that particular way, with that shape, in that particular area if it was a virgin area of pipe |
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Posted: 12/11/2023 11:01:45 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a response to you, and the others. There were two separate people who both shouted "CALL 911!". Dividing tasks and addressing them is good, but blindly shouting/repeating "CALL 911" is not an effective strategy. Telling a *specific person* to call 911 is fine. And since we can't see the video, we can't tell if the cameraman is pointing at someone while shouting that, so who knows. But the fact that two different bystanders both shouted the same exact words, without a verbal address to a specific person, suggests the usual thing you see upon sudden crisis: reactively spamming "someone help us!" without direction. Usually it takes a few more moments for the initial shock to pass, and for a secondary realization of "oh no, I didn't do that, did you?" to kick in. I can't tell you how many scenes I've rolled up on and had to direct patrol guys, and supervisors, to calm the fuck down and start doing X, Y, and Z. Managing stress and working through it isn't a common skillset. Teaching people to *do* a thing instead of shouting hopelessly is important. A few months back I was in the office when my work cell rang, and it was a patrol Sgt asking for advice. I start hearing screaming in the background and ask "what's going on?" "There's a fight" "Who's fighting? Are they fighting the units on scene?" *screaming* Sigh, run to car, go lights and siren, and tell dispatch to start EMS emergent to the scene. Roll up and find two sgts and two patrol guys carrying a psychotic screaming teenage girl, with one Sgt in a panic trying to drive a cruiser off an embankment to...get closer to the fight? Order the two supervisors to stop what they're doing, place the crazy on the ground in recovery position, and to wait for EMS. "Has anyone called them yet?!?" "Yes...me...before I even arrived over here. Stop, collect yourself, start breathing again..." Take over the call, take statements from the units on scene, decide what legal action to take, and then go get it done. If you're calm and composed and know what you're doing, and know the other person will actually listen to you and do what you tell them to, then great. Otherwise, in an emergency the actual best course of action is to pull your phone out, dial 911, and then start talking to the open line while you get to work doing what needs to be done. Directing someone else to call is only workable if you know they can handle themselves and actually do it. Yet you have no idea if they have a designated 911 caller and they are both shouting at that ne designated individual. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:11:47 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody post the tube that 'sploded yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_194443_Firefox-3057031.jpg Saw this earlier, interesting hole and can't believe the weld held if that's the case. Also note to self, use Galvion Mandibale guard, neck, and deltoid armor when testing any shoulder fired DD. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:17:13 AM EST
[#34]
It doesn't actually show anything.
A guy holding an RPG, then the screen goes blurry and I guess some kind of explosion thereafter which is so masked by the blur effects as to not be visible. then some dude just narrating or talking for 3 minutes. I'm not running audio right now, so don't know what he said. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:25:15 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That hole looks way too much of a square and in the same location as the demil hole usually is. I still think it was the demil location but we'll see. They specifically said the weld didn't fail so maybe something else happened with the patch but it just looks like it's the same spot it usually is. And maybe it's just me, but that area of the launcher is seamless pipe so I'm trying to get my head around how it could've failed in that particular way, with that shape, in that particular area if it was a virgin area of pipe Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's the text that went with the splody pipe pic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84345/IMG_7703-3057084.jpg I think they're lucky he was wearing some actual protective gear and not just shooting in flip flops and wearing aviator glasses. That hole looks way too much of a square and in the same location as the demil hole usually is. I still think it was the demil location but we'll see. They specifically said the weld didn't fail so maybe something else happened with the patch but it just looks like it's the same spot it usually is. And maybe it's just me, but that area of the launcher is seamless pipe so I'm trying to get my head around how it could've failed in that particular way, with that shape, in that particular area if it was a virgin area of pipe The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. 
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:48:32 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's the text that went with the splody pipe pic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84345/IMG_7703-3057084.jpg I think they're lucky he was wearing some actual protective gear and not just shooting in flip flops and wearing aviator glasses. That hole looks way too much of a square and in the same location as the demil hole usually is. I still think it was the demil location but we'll see. They specifically said the weld didn't fail so maybe something else happened with the patch but it just looks like it's the same spot it usually is. And maybe it's just me, but that area of the launcher is seamless pipe so I'm trying to get my head around how it could've failed in that particular way, with that shape, in that particular area if it was a virgin area of pipe The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg So much back and forth, but yeah even Mississipiarms said they confirmed it was the weld that gave out. Not sure why Bryce or whoever is managing their main channel instagram page is saying otherwise. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 1:09:04 AM EST
[#37]
What's an RPG rocket cost on the open market if you wanted like 10?
In maybe Afghanistan or Iraq? I see terrorists shooting these things all the time like they are super cheap. What's each shot costing assuming they bought them? 50 bucks? 500? I literally have no idea how expensive these are at all. I'm guessing 50-200 a shot? |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 2:11:08 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to point out as a PSA here: "Call 911!" is a fucking stupid statement. If it's occurring to you that "oh sheet, I need an amberlamps!", then start rooting around in your cleavage for that iPhone and call the fucking number yourself. It's a classic example of bystander effect. Get it in your head to ACT when something occurs, rather than shout in a hopeful manner that someone else will Do The Thing That Needs Doing. This inclination needs to be trained out of people. The best way I'm aware of is this: to decide ahead of time that when something occurs your plan is to start acting. Not to wait, not to hope others will, not to look around. But that the very instant you realize that shit hit the fan, that you're already moving to or away from the threat, situational dependent. SOP for range activities is to designate people beforehand for emergencies. The best medically trained person will provide aid, a person with comms will call 911 and know the location, OIC/RSO will take charge, a person will transport victim or guide the ambulance/helicopter in, etc with a primary and alternate designated. So yelling call 911 is the correct thing to do and the designated person will automatically do it. For CPR training it's different. It's unplanned and usually around strangers. So that's when you have to be specific when telling someone to call 911. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:25:48 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's the text that went with the splody pipe pic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84345/IMG_7703-3057084.jpg I think they're lucky he was wearing some actual protective gear and not just shooting in flip flops and wearing aviator glasses. That hole looks way too much of a square and in the same location as the demil hole usually is. I still think it was the demil location but we'll see. They specifically said the weld didn't fail so maybe something else happened with the patch but it just looks like it's the same spot it usually is. And maybe it's just me, but that area of the launcher is seamless pipe so I'm trying to get my head around how it could've failed in that particular way, with that shape, in that particular area if it was a virgin area of pipe The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg There you go. I haven’t looked at their social media other than the screenshot posted above that said that the weld on the demil repair didn’t fail so I didn’t see that. That’s what I figured from the beginning and that picture that was posted above looks like a perfect hole matching what the typical demil hole looks like in the exact same area, so that’s why it threw me for a loop when they were claiming that the weld didn’t fail. I guess maybe they are going to say that there was an issue with the propellant charge or like somebody else said here, that the propellant charge tube was too far back and plugged up the exit hole from the expansion chamber, but ultimately it seems like the demil repair was not properly strong enough and was the failure point. I wonder if they’re going to claim that the weak demil repair area was actually a good thing because it gave a place of failure that wasn’t instantly fatal, but we shall see. If that’s the case, it’s a little bit of a Monday morning quarterbacking, because if the demil repair area was actually just a strong as a virgin original tube it might’ve been able to hold together and not fail at all |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:42:06 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's an RPG rocket cost on the open market if you wanted like 10? In maybe Afghanistan or Iraq? I see terrorists shooting these things all the time like they are super cheap. What's each shot costing assuming they bought them? 50 bucks? 500? I literally have no idea how expensive these are at all. I'm guessing 50-200 a shot? This journalist mentions some prices as of a few years ago.  Gun sales spike at historic Taiz market | Money Talks Afghanistan could potentially have lower prices. It's hard to know just how much they have in supply. After seeing walls of 7.62 spam cans in a single cave recently, I'm inclined to believe that they're still sitting on a ton, and that's not even counting what was captured when we pulled out. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 4:50:00 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg Well, there it is. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 6:15:16 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg *Exhales in RPG-2 tube using DOM tubing and not some shitty welded patch-job* |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 6:35:27 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: those didn't look like "real" rockets. Someones homebrewed on a printer stuff. 2.25 mark. It says they are "prototype rockets" The other dude, who fired a few, couldn't be bothered with eye pro? |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 6:57:24 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2.25 mark. It says they are "prototype rockets" The other dude, who fired a few, couldn't be bothered with eye pro? Still not actual rockets , it’s a common misconception Just black powder charges way over the 5.4 ounce milspec load data . I’ve heard from people close to the situation it was either 8 ounce or 12 ounces which is WAYYY over loaded |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 9:55:55 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still not actual rockets , it’s a common misconception Just black powder charges way over the 5.4 ounce milspec load data . I’ve heard from people close to the situation it was either 8 ounce or 12 ounces which is WAYYY over loaded Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 2.25 mark. It says they are "prototype rockets" The other dude, who fired a few, couldn't be bothered with eye pro? Still not actual rockets , it’s a common misconception Just black powder charges way over the 5.4 ounce milspec load data . I’ve heard from people close to the situation it was either 8 ounce or 12 ounces which is WAYYY over loaded Ouch, yeah that’ll do it. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:20:13 PM EST
[#46]
Faked for click bait?
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:41:22 PM EST
[#47]
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:49:23 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *Exhales in RPG-2 tube using DOM tubing and not some shitty welded patch-job* Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The man himself says that it was the repair that failed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/235602/Screenshot_20231211_222208_Firefox-3057161.jpg *Exhales in RPG-2 tube using DOM tubing and not some shitty welded patch-job* That's what I wondered when looking at that pic. Hopefully not repaired with some sch40 a36 steel pipe or something. I'd overdo that build. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:02:01 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still not actual rockets , it’s a common misconception Just black powder charges way over the 5.4 ounce milspec load data . I’ve heard from people close to the situation it was either 8 ounce or 12 ounces which is WAYYY over loaded I know absolutely nothing about these things. I just posted something I saw in the video. I will take your word for it, as you seem to know what you are talking about. That seems like a bad recipe! |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:13:54 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So this comment is pure speculation, but this RPG looks like one of the demilled kits that you can buy online right now. What most people think of doing in order to "reactivate" it, is to weld the holes. I think this is what happened here, I'm betting this one was re weld, and black powder was used, and it looks like a lot of BP was used in the booster. This is a lot of gases escaping from the firing pin area. https://i.imgur.com/ClQ3o49.gif Hopefully Adam recovers. Welding on high-hardenability steels is never a good idea, in my opinion. For anyone interested in this, I strongly recommend reading Metals and How to Weld Them, which is sold for a low price by the James F. Lincoln foundation. It is a short introductory book about welding all different kinds of metals. I once fired a French 25mm anti-tank gun that was made in 1938 that had a rewelded barrel, back when I knew nothing about metallurgy. I would never do that ever again. You change the microstructure of the steel irreparably when you weld it. |
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