I guess it's my turn to do one of these...

My father-in-law passed away 4 weeks ago and now my mother-in-law wants us to move in with her. My wife is onboard - I am not.

We (my wife and I are both 39) currently live in a twin (have so since 2015) and our goal is to find a single family home with some more yard space for our two girls (3 and 6) and our dog. We actually love our twin - it's easy to take care of and we have everything set up the way we want it. We also have great neighbors and the neighborhood itself is great. We still want a single family, but are perfectly content waiting until we either A.) Have more money/equity in our current home and/or B.) The right opportunity presents itself. And here lies the problem - that opportunity (in my wife and mother-in-law's mind) has now presented itself...

Her parents have always talked about us buying their house one day because they know that's our goal - a single family. And the market has been terrible for buyers so us buying their house (to them) would be a no brainer. It's a gorgeous large single family home with a big yard in an even nicer neighborhood. 3 car garage and house is completely turn-key - it's a gorgeous property. The best part is that we would have no mortgage because it would basically be gifted to us (yes, I know there are taxes involved in that process). All of that is a no-brainer, right? Well, it is to my wife and MIL.

4 weeks ago, my father-in-law passed away at 73 - he beat Leukemia with a stem-cell transplant, but it weakened him so badly that during the stem-cell recovery, an infection caused him to go down hill and he never recovered.

We're all devastated (he was a great man). And within days of his passing my MIL tells my wife she wants to sell the house, that is, unless we want to take it, provided she lives downstairs (they have a suite downstairs).

For a lot of reasons, it's a great idea - financially it's a no-brainer and we'd have a single family house in a dream neighborhood and the girls would have space, our dog, etc - we'd even have a babysitter there 24/7 for the girls.

For a long time, I thought "Yes, this will be great."

Now that it's here I've realized I cannot live in the same house as my mother-in-law - our marriage will now no longer be the two of us, but now my myself, my wife, and her mother. I don't think I REALLY thought about how that would change our family dynamic until now - when it's here and a decision needs to be made. Even with my MIL living downstairs, the dynamic that currently exists between my wife and children - it will be forever changed with her mother living in the same house.

I've always been somebody who says Yes because I want to please people and not hurt peoples feelings, but this is a hill I am willing to die on - I will not sacrifice my own happiness just to make my wife and more importantly my now widowed MIL feel better after losing my FIL.

My wife is really upset because she says I'm making her choose between her husband and her mother - I lost my cool when she said that and said, "So, who's it going to be - me or your mother?!"

What really bothers me is that this is the last thing I wanted to speak up about literally 4 weeks after her Dad died - everyone should be focusing on grieving. The problem is that her mom is pushing the shit out of this (party because I think she's super depressed and lonely and is thinking irrationally because of just losing her husband). The last thing I wanted to do is tell me wife "No" right now - just weeks after her Dad died - she has enough on her mind. But two days ago, my MIL told me wife (who told me) that we "should sell her house now because it's a good time to sell" - that's when I lost it and said (in my head) now is the time to speak up about this.

I will not (no matter how great the house is or how great it would be financially) completely alter my family dynamic and my own sanity by doing this. None of that is more important to me than my wife and kids and I refuse to change my life and our family dynamic because they think it's a good move.

Am I the asshole?

----------------------------------

UPDATE:

My wife spoke to her mother a little while ago and told her how I felt about it.

She's pissed and said the house is now off the table - she's selling and will find someplace to live. She was real short with my wife and didn't say a word when she left her house. Just said, "Fine - leave."

She was the one who forced a decision to be made less than 4 weeks after my FIL's death - I spoke up (for probably one of the few times in my life ever) and said I cannot do it - certainly not now.

But now I'm a huge asshole.

Only an asshole would make a post that long and expect us to read it all.

So yes.

I guess I expected that - I get it.

You're in a tough spot.  Everyone is emotional, panicked, and anxious.  

I could not under any circumstances live with my MIL nor could I have her raise my kids.

You are not the asshole. How you handled was pretty harsh but she married you. if your marriage is a religious one, she knows what she has to do.

How many years do you figure MIL  has left?

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WTF is a twin? How do you live in a mattress?

I don't fault someone for not wanting to live with family. Something to consider in these situations though is age and health of mother in law.
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No, your not the asshole.

Here is how I would approach this and present it to the wife and MIL.

Its only been 4 weeks, your mother needs time to grieve and adjust not compensate for her loss
by having us move in. We all need to take a step back and let things happen in their own time.
Right now you mother is grieving and lonely and needs to get through this phase, we can revisit
this in a year and see if this is still what she wants and if its best for all parties.

Without knowing how you MIl acts towards you and you wife it hard to answer.

If she stays quiet and out of your marriage you are possibly loosing out.

If she tries to be in the middle of everything then you are correct.

Plus help with the kids can be a big bonus.

How is the relationship traditionally with your mother?

I will be the voice of dissent....

I would make that move without a second thought. I actually like my mother in law, but he does get on my nerves on occasion. Even with that, that sort of upward housing move at basically no cost, and being able to care for family with built in child care is a no brainer.

FPNI

Yes.

Probably not the initial asshole in this situation.

House swap.

Thats what's so hard about this - she's actually a fantastic woman - she's amazing with our kids, but she has quirks about her that annoy me at times and all of that is perfectly tolerable because I don't live with her.

You could be the nicest person in the world, but it doesn't mean I'm comfortable living with that person.

My fear (and I suppose if it comes to be it is what it is) is that my wife and MIL will resent me for this.

Honestly though, my wife I can tell doesn't totally disagree with me - I think she's just so focused on helping her mom get through this that she's just not prepared to tell her Mom "No."

Yeah, it's a shitty situation - as you said, emotions are flying and everyone is just mentally not in a good spot just weeks after his death.

Yes, you are being incredibly stubborn IMO.  You've been presented with an amazing opportunity for your family who should be your first priority. Your feelings take a backseat.

Good luck with your pending divorce, living in a trailer the rest of your life and your future financial disaster.

No advice but I am in a similar but also different situation.

I am leaving my house, a block away from my youngest son to become a live in, full time nanny to my older son, an hour away. I offered the house to my youngest. Free. It’s paid for. They don’t want it. They are emotionally attached to their much crappier house. Their first one together.

Their choice. They will get part of the proceeds from the sale when I die. It would have been a great financial advantage to them to take my house. But their choice.

I don’t blame you for not wanting to live with your mother in law. Any chance she will move out?

I expect my son will be tired of me in a year or two and then I’ll move to an apartment. He is divorced so not presently a daughter in law issue but future girlfriend may be.

Sounds like your family dynamics are going to change with either decision you make. Weigh out the happiness/not happy of everyone involved. Make the choice best for most.

Tough spot for sure. I would suggest that you hire an attorney that specializes in in estate planning. It's not cheap but will save you time and money in the long run. I finally got my parents to go to one roughly 3.5 years ago. Long story short. My brother and I were added to the deed of the house/property. It kept them out of probate. (they are both deceased)

I don't know. I'd probably bite the bullet and FO on this one.

Needs a pole.

We have a great relationship, but she has quirks that annoy me. Frankly, even my wife at times.

It's the part where she would literally be part of our lives every single day now - I don't know if I could comfortably live my marriage like that.

Without a doubt, probably, but not about this.

Its shitty that MIL threatened selling unless y'all move in with her. Shes using emotion to manipulate your wife & we all know emotions heavily drive women's thought processes & decision making.

Suppose your options are:
A) stay put, keep looking & call the MIL out on her claim to sell
B) move in and sell your duplex
C) move in and rent your duplex
D) get divorced
E) other

Enjoy the drama...

Is the MIL a monster in law? Is there room in the house?

What is your current marriage like?

Are their boundaries between the MIL and your family?

My wife used to ask occasionally "what if my mother can't get along on her own" .  I soft pedaled the answer for years.

When it was more of a possibility the answer became "No.  She's not going to move in with us."  With the subtext being, if you move her in, I'm moving out.

No way I'm turning a pair into a trio.  Plus my MIL needed to constantly be the center of attention.

There is nothing to choose, she's married and has a family.  That's her life now.  She can visit and call her mother.

If you move in with her mother everything is going to involve the MIL.

Disclaimer: My advice is worth what you paid for it.  

Good luck.

First post made me laugh.

Have you thought about swapping houses?

Have MIL live in your current home and you continue paying the mortgage on that while the parent's house taxes could be paid by parents, converting that expense.

Then, get an attorney to work on the parent's house gifted over, whether that involves a trust or partnership gifting schedule.  That will circumvent the taxes that would involve the transfer of property.


Personally, we bought my inlaw's house.  It is a vacation home and it got them the money to move closer to us.  They sold at a heavily reduced price so we saved on taxes.  We also didn't have any weird landlord/renter situation.

Of course, I get along wonderfully with my inlaws so it was an easy situation to accommodate.

Best of luck!

My wife is really upset because she says I'm making her choose between her husband and her mother - I lost my cool when she said that and said, "So, who's it going to be - me or your mother?!"

That comment has so many red flags, it puts China's flag to shame.  

Not no but HELL NO!  It is a losing situation for you no matter how you look at it.  Your MIL would end up being in every minute of your daily life.  The female dynamic would be your MIL, wife and daughters all hanging together with you on the outside.

After marriage, the best thing a man can do is move their wife as far as possible from their mother.

And dont think for a second that your MIL will not end up being jealous that you and your wife are spending time alone in the bedroom.  She will find subtle ways to keep her busy by suggesting they make cookies with the girls or lets watch a movie, etc., anything to keep her around instead of the two of you getting alone time.  Women are just naturally jealous and mean spirited like that.

Attached File

No matter what, as a man, you will lose if you live under the rule of another, even if that’s an old lady. No way no how will I live “with” someone. I made that mistake once when me and the wife lived with her dad. Almost ended the relationship completely. It’s not worth it op, stand your ground.

How old is she?  How's her health?

Is she going to be staying in her space or is she going to be roaming around the entire house?

My worry is that your wife will have her best friend back and you'll be the third wheel.

An asshole, no, but foolish, yes.

this is a great opportunity for your family and future. Your dynamics will change either way because of the disagreement with your wife, do you might as well get the life changing upside of the house for free, not to mention live in child care. MIL living downstairs in a suite is reasonable. Since you get along well with her I woukd jump on this opportunity and know she won't live forever but that your FAMILY financial situation will be forever enhanced. Don't blow it.

That is a difficult situation. The only way that works out in a "healthy" way is if there are distinct boundaries. It does not sound like that is the case.

Have you considered building a "mother in law" shack out back? Tiny house, easy to take care of, building costs would be a wash since you would have no mortgage plus it will increase equity and provide a guest home when MIL kicks the bucket. Boundaries set, such as "you will come and go from your home as you please and you can join us for supper each night" so that she isn't just existing there.

These kind of things can work but both partners need to be unbelievably firm. The response cannot involve emotion on your side but emotions will absolutely be used a tactic or bargaining chip.

Personal anecdote: while not to the point of living under the same roof yet, we go through the boundaries thing with my SIL and MIL. SIL is still attached at the tit and completely helpless in her mid 30sm MIL understands this but goes along with it anyway to placate ner. Wife and I are in complete agreement on boundaries and will set the terms of our family gatherings. The key to this is complete, lockstep agreement and no wiggle room or appeasement, period. God bless my wife, she is about the most mild mannered person I've ever met (does not even cuss) but if her mom and dad are babying her sister and it impacts others in the family she is an absolute bearcat. That is the level it has to be at for this to work...some can do it, most cannot.

Just putting it out there...it's a compromise where everyone gets what they want as long as people play by the rules. Only you can say whether your wife and MIL would follow those rules.

Experts universally agree that no big decisions should be made about a persons life for a year after a family death.

I would present this, consider the pros and cons, and propose that the family readdress it 10-11 months.

At the same time you should consider the amount of guns, NVG, ammo and body armor you can buy with the monthly savings from a mortgage.

It is recommended to NOT make any big life decisions for at least a year after the death of a close loved one.

You’re being selfish. If it were me, I’d put the well-being and happiness of my family above my own. If MIL is a good person, will not interfere in your ability to lead the family, is good with the kids, but has a few quirks…deal with the quirks.

I’m assuming the nicer house, in the nicer neighborhood, will also have nicer schools for your girls.  That would be a huge factor in my decision.

Opportunity doesn’t alway knock twice. Take advantage of it while you can. If things don’t work out, you can always move to your own place later.

I passed on a couple of opportunities to better my house situation, choosing to “wait it out” until the “time was  better”.  It didn’t get better & now I’m stuck in a house that is too small for my family. I will not pass on the next opportunity.

If you have to ask.....

(have not read OP)

ETA....tuff spot, I would pull the one year from death card.  By some time, re-evaluate in a year.  In the mean time think of boundaries if you did choose to live with the MIL.  You can come upstairs if invited or maybe open invitation but if asked you must leave for either my wife or me (all parties must agree if anyone has a problem she goes, not the wife gets to keep mom upstairs and you have to suffer, just like if the wife was annoyed and you wanted to keep her......away she goes).

I would say the MIL health could vary my answer, though I have seen many women with 870 major health issues that should have died years ago live to agitate the rest of the family......

Its a hard question but this is what I was going to say. Trade houses, you pay the mortgage or rent on the twin ( duplex ) until she cant live there anymore. You get a house, she gets to downsize, win win. But due to the suite, you can do something like she can stay over a few days a week in the suite and to help out. But with clear guidelines that you need your space for your family so she does need to go "home" for weekends and such.

You may find that she is easier to deal with than you think, or she may find out she likes her independence and wont be over as much as you think.

Just playing devil's advocate here...that sound like a lot of time that you'd actually get to yourself. Most guys need more of that, not less.

Does the downstairs suite have its own entrance?

You’re not the asshole. A little harsh with the wife maybe.

NTA,  as others have said MIL really needs to give some time to work through her grief.  Unofficial rule is to NOT make any big decisions in the first year.
My dad passed in January.  That set into motion a series of events that had my mom staying with us from February to April.  We love my mom and love being around her but two weeks into it the experience became less than ideal.  
I'd remain calm about it but there's no way I would allow the MIL to force the action.  If my wife used your wife's logic with me I would be asking her to look at it if the roles were reversed.  If she stuck to her opinion after that I would be seeking marriage counseling.  With or without her.
I know millions of people have lived in the proposed family unit throughout history.  But, a very large percentage of them did so because they had no choice and were miserable.  No way I would voluntarily enter into the arrangement especially since you already have reservations about it.

Well, if you have been married over 30 years like me, you are right  I am guessing based on the age of OP's kids, he and his wife havent married so long that they want to spend time apart.

OP actually laid things out plainly, though I know it must have been tough given the circumstances. Maybe try the living together, but have an escape route just in case?  

I was going to ask the same thing.

MAYBE it could work if you got rid of the stairs.

Even if there were tax implications, it wouldn't be your problem.

There is an annual gift tax exclusion amount (currently $18,000). That means an individual can give up to $18,000 to another person and not have to file an annual gift tax return (IRS Form 709). If the person who gives the gift exceeds the lifetime exclusion amount, then the gift GIVER is generally responsible for paying the taxes on the amount over the exclusion amount, but only once the amount over the annual exclusions exceeds the lifetime exclusion amount-though there are situations where the receiver can agree to pay the taxes. The lifetime exclusion amount is currently $13,610,000.00.

For example:

John gives his son, Steve, $50,000 in 2022. The money is NOT taxable to Steve, and he does not report it anywhere on his tax return. John files an IRS Form 709. He excludes $15,000 (the 2020 exclusion amount) and $35,000 is applied against his lifetime exclusion. John doesn't pay any taxes on the gift.

In 2021, John gives Steve another $50,000. Once again, it is NOT taxable for Steve. Once again, John files an IRS Form 709. He excludes another $15,000 and adds $35,000 to the previously reported $35,000 to go towards his lifetime exclusion.

In 2022, John again gives Steve $50,000. Steve STILL does not have any tax obligation related to the gift. John files a 709, excluding $16,000 and adding $34,000 tot he previously reported $70,000, making his lifetime exclusion amount now $104,000.

In 2023, John gives Steve another  $50k. Steve still doesn't pay any taxes. John excludes $17k and $33k is added to his lifetime exclusion, for a total of $137k.

In 2024, John gives Steve $13,518,000. Steve doesn't owe a dime of income tax on any of it. John files an IRS Form 709 and excludes $18k. The remaining $13,500,000 is added to his lifetime exclusion amount previously reported, bringing it to $13,637,000. John now owes gift taxes on the $37,000 which exceeds the lifetime exclusion amount. John will end up paying $7,540 in gift taxes ($1,800 on the first $10k (18%), $2,000 on the next $10k (20%), and $3,740 on the remaining $17k (22%).

(This is assuming John did not give anyone else any gifts during his lifetime, as the exclusion amounts are totals for all gifts given, not just per individual recipient.)

The father of my best friend growing up got in a bad motorbike accident and had the MIL move in to help whilst he recovered. The marriage didn't last past when he could physically walk out the door. I would not, could not live with parents on either side.

The only possible comprimise would be to have a permanently locked door between the two halfs. Then any intrusion would have to be done thry the front door.

Seems like a bad time to sell a house, only because house prices are keeping up with inflation.  Maybe talk to a real financal advisor though.


As an alternative can you literally swap houses. Do some deal you are comfortable with any you live in the big house she lives in the twin?

Ahhh. An early adopter of '13ism.

It will not work.
Two women in one house is bad enough, but you being the only man in the house?
You are gonna have two women constantly trying to think of things that you should be doing.
Can you imagine the daily conversation on what to have for dinner?

I would push for buying/getting their house and let the MIL stay there or finding the next house with an in-law suite.

Respectfully,  it isn't about you.  It's about what's best for your family overall in the long run.
Maybe having a family with grandma included would be a long term benefit foryourchildren.
As I get older,  there is very little family left. And I miss the days of having lots of family around. You are still young and shewon't be around forever.

My mother-in-law and I get along, but there has to be a limit. Living in the same house would exceed that limit.

Tell them both to wait a few months.  No harm in waiting and no opportunity lost in waiting.  A month after dad dies is way too soon to upend everybody’s life without being sure it’s the best choice.