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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:04:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Wow that’s brutal. I’ll ask around some of my buddies are in that field. I certainly hope you get what you’re owed.
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:08:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Jesus Christ, OP, go make an appointment with a lawyer in your state. Stop fucking around on the internet.
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:11:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not a Kansas attorney and this may be pretty state specific. A former associate does employment litigation in the KC area. If you are interested let me know and I will put you in contact with his and his firm. PM SBG and get his friends #. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:20:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Commissions aren't wages. Whether or not non-competes are worth a shit depends on the state and some extent the industry. Telling a med device salesman that he can't work for a competitor is basically telling him he can't work. Taking customer lists or contacts is frowned on though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP Read this then call Kansas State Labor Board State labor doesn't fuck around with deadbeat shifty employers they will ass rape them and get you paid. They get off on the power trip or it Direct from Kansas Statutes http://kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0015_section/044_003_0015_k/ 44-315.Separation prior to payday; damages for willful non-payment. (a) Whenever an employer discharges an employee or whenever an employee quits or resigns, the employer shall pay the employee's earned wages not later than the next regular payday upon which he or she would have been paid if still employed as provided under K.S.A. 44-314 either through the regular pay channels or by mail postmarked within the deadlines herein specified if requested by the employee. (b)If an employer willfully fails to pay an employee wages as required by K.S.A. 44-314, and amendments thereto, or as required under subsection (a) of this section, such employer shall be liable to the employee for the wages due and also shall be liable to the employee for a penalty in the fixed amount of 1% of the unpaid wages for each day, except Sunday and legal holidays, upon which such failure continues after the eighth day after the day upon which payment is required or in an amount equal to 100% of the unpaid wages, whichever is less. For the purpose of such additional damages, the failure to pay shall not be deemed to continue after the date of the filing of a petition in bankruptcy with respect to the employer if he or she is adjudicated bankrupt upon such petition nor shall it be deemed to continue after an appeal is filed under K.S.A. 44-322a, and amendments thereto, until the decision on appeal becomes final. Wrong.. Statutory definition as follows http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0013_section/044_003_0013_k/ 44-313. Definitions. As used in this act: (a) "Employer" means any individual, partnership, association, joint stock company, trust, corporation, limited liability company or other organization, the administrator or executor of the estate of a deceased individual, or the receiver, trustee, or successor of any of the same, the state of Kansas or any department, agency or authority of the state, any city, county, school district or other political subdivision, municipality or public corporation and any instrumentality thereof, employing any person. (b) "Employee" means any person allowed or permitted to work by an employer. (c) "Wages" means compensation for labor or services rendered by an employee, whether the amount is determined on a time, task, piece, commission or other basis less authorized withholding and deductions. (d) "Secretary" means the secretary of labor. History: L. 1973, ch. 204, § 1; L. 1976, ch. 370, § 4; L. 1986, ch. 187, § 1; L. 2003, ch. 76, § 1; L. 2004, ch. 179, § 4; July 1. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:21:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: OP Read this then call Kansas State Labor Board State labor doesn’t fuck around with deadbeat shifty employers they will ass rape them and get you paid. They get off on the power trip or it Direct from Kansas Statutes http://kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0015_section/044_003_0015_k/ 44-315. Separation prior to payday; damages for willful non-payment. (a) Whenever an employer discharges an employee or whenever an employee quits or resigns, the employer shall pay the employee's earned wages not later than the next regular payday upon which he or she would have been paid if still employed as provided under K.S.A. 44-314 either through the regular pay channels or by mail postmarked within the deadlines herein specified if requested by the employee. (b) If an employer willfully fails to pay an employee wages as required by K.S.A. 44-314, and amendments thereto, or as required under subsection (a) of this section, such employer shall be liable to the employee for the wages due and also shall be liable to the employee for a penalty in the fixed amount of 1% of the unpaid wages for each day, except Sunday and legal holidays, upon which such failure continues after the eighth day after the day upon which payment is required or in an amount equal to 100% of the unpaid wages, whichever is less. For the purpose of such additional damages, the failure to pay shall not be deemed to continue after the date of the filing of a petition in bankruptcy with respect to the employer if he or she is adjudicated bankrupt upon such petition nor shall it be deemed to continue after an appeal is filed under K.S.A. 44-322a, and amendments thereto, until the decision on appeal becomes final. In some cases commissions/bonuses are treated differently than wages. I'd do some more digging on that issue as it relates to commissions. See reply from above In Kansas wages means Commision also Most states have statutory shit already to handle this type thing. AZ is a mothefucker about it. If they don’t pay you the state forces them to pay you 3X the amount that was due. AZ just pays you from the state with damages then adds it to the company’s tax liability if they need to. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:21:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holly shit. I know two other people in your trade that had the exact same thing happen to them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Medical technology. Holly shit. I know two other people in your trade that had the exact same thing happen to them. Possibly companies making bank off covid testing and supplies. They're now seeing that cash cow just jumped the fence and need to figure out how to make their projections that counted on this lasting a little longer. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:30:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fired for “performance” with zero proof. Five minutes later a mega deal you handed goes through & the shitty boss gets the commission. I’m betting HR is pissed they forgot to turn your email off. And yes state labor board. And instead of working for a competitor, can you get a job with the big deal client? That might really piss off the old boss… especially if you can direct sales to another company that way. Or better yet- helping the old customer/ new employer negotiate better on future deals with your old company |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:31:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Medical technology. PM me the company.... I deal with most of them and might be able to get info. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:34:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Best way to go about it depends on how is your relationship with the customer? If good then I'd ask them to help you. One call from them to your former employer with concerns about how they do business or the deal itself should clear it all up. They (customer) sure as hell don't want anything to do with a lawsuit. They can put the pressure on your former employer. Don't be vindictive, be smart about it. I've seen this happen... in the Medical world. the Rep was hired back at a higher position and the people who fired him went out the door. big clients don't want issues. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:41:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong.. Statutory definition as follows... Interesting. I wonder why the two attorneys the OP met with did not mention this. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:44:23 PM EDT
[#11]
The deal was done AFTER you left. No longer an employee, so it doesn't matter what you did prior to it. The second you are no longer an employee, you are out of there.
If you only get commission on once the deal is signed and any other requirements, it seems pretty standard that you would not be an employee upon execution of the agreement. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 8:08:07 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/6/2021 9:50:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The deal was done AFTER you left. No longer an employee, so it doesn't matter what you did prior to it. The second you are no longer an employee, you are out of there. If you only get commission on once the deal is signed and any other requirements, it seems pretty standard that you would not be an employee upon execution of the agreement. That depends on the circumstances. Was he fired and out then and there or was he fired formally later, hours later I mean (paperwork, etc.)? Did the customer sign the agreement that morning or the afternoon before, and the email came through later? Did the employer abide by their policy and procedures in terminating him? As in, was he warned, counseled, put on a PIP if that's what was supposed to happen? Yeah, for 38 fucking thousand dollars I wouldn't simply say "oh well I'm no longer an employee tough luck for me". I'd do anything and everything to fuck these motherfuckers. Fuck any employer that pulls this kind of shit or allows it to happen. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 7:36:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong.. Statutory definition as follows http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0013_section/044_003_0013_k/ 44-313.Definitions. As used in this act: (a) "Employer" means any individual, partnership, association, joint stock company, trust, corporation, limited liability company or other organization, the administrator or executor of the estate of a deceased individual, or the receiver, trustee, or successor of any of the same, the state of Kansas or any department, agency or authority of the state, any city, county, school district or other political subdivision, municipality or public corporation and any instrumentality thereof, employing any person. (b)"Employee" means any person allowed or permitted to work by an employer. (c)"Wages" means compensation for labor or services rendered by an employee, whether the amount is determined on a time, task, piece, commission or other basis less authorized withholding and deductions. (d)"Secretary" means the secretary of labor. History:L. 1973, ch. 204, 1; L. 1976, ch. 370, 4; L. 1986, ch. 187, 1; L. 2003, ch. 76, 1; L. 2004, ch. 179, 4; July 1. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP Read this then call Kansas State Labor Board State labor doesn't fuck around with deadbeat shifty employers they will ass rape them and get you paid. They get off on the power trip or it Direct from Kansas Statutes http://kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0015_section/044_003_0015_k/ 44-315.Separation prior to payday; damages for willful non-payment. (a) Whenever an employer discharges an employee or whenever an employee quits or resigns, the employer shall pay the employee's earned wages not later than the next regular payday upon which he or she would have been paid if still employed as provided under K.S.A. 44-314 either through the regular pay channels or by mail postmarked within the deadlines herein specified if requested by the employee. (b)If an employer willfully fails to pay an employee wages as required by K.S.A. 44-314, and amendments thereto, or as required under subsection (a) of this section, such employer shall be liable to the employee for the wages due and also shall be liable to the employee for a penalty in the fixed amount of 1% of the unpaid wages for each day, except Sunday and legal holidays, upon which such failure continues after the eighth day after the day upon which payment is required or in an amount equal to 100% of the unpaid wages, whichever is less. For the purpose of such additional damages, the failure to pay shall not be deemed to continue after the date of the filing of a petition in bankruptcy with respect to the employer if he or she is adjudicated bankrupt upon such petition nor shall it be deemed to continue after an appeal is filed under K.S.A. 44-322a, and amendments thereto, until the decision on appeal becomes final. Wrong.. Statutory definition as follows http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0013_section/044_003_0013_k/ 44-313.Definitions. As used in this act: (a) "Employer" means any individual, partnership, association, joint stock company, trust, corporation, limited liability company or other organization, the administrator or executor of the estate of a deceased individual, or the receiver, trustee, or successor of any of the same, the state of Kansas or any department, agency or authority of the state, any city, county, school district or other political subdivision, municipality or public corporation and any instrumentality thereof, employing any person. (b)"Employee" means any person allowed or permitted to work by an employer. (c)"Wages" means compensation for labor or services rendered by an employee, whether the amount is determined on a time, task, piece, commission or other basis less authorized withholding and deductions. (d)"Secretary" means the secretary of labor. History:L. 1973, ch. 204, 1; L. 1976, ch. 370, 4; L. 1986, ch. 187, 1; L. 2003, ch. 76, 1; L. 2004, ch. 179, 4; July 1. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 7:49:06 AM EDT
[#15]
Op hopefully you printed that deal email. If 2 law firms said no giving the state board and also find a small firm or single lawyer. Have everything written in bullets points and pay them to write a demand letter to the company and go from there.
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Posted: 5/7/2021 7:58:00 AM EDT
[#16]
I would go back and read your employment contract. It probably states that you’re only entitled to commission for jobs that close while you are employed.
It’s definitely kind of a dick move for them to deny your big commission if it closed 5 minutes after they fired you, but depending on the contract terms it may not be illegal. Firing sales reps to avoid major commission payouts is not a new concept. It’s a stupid business decision in the long term, but it’s still fairly common. Eta: My contract says I get my commission after the client pays us for the final invoice, and I must still be employed at that time to receive payment. So, if I were fired I wouldn’t even get a commission payout for a lot of jobs I had closed 100%. It sucks but it’s how it is. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 8:02:44 AM EDT
[#17]
sorry OP i really am. i hope you recover it.
but i must say.... in this day and the way things are going somehow it doesn't surprise me. Companies are out to screw everyone. You being a little guy, well "cough" FU.... 40k a lot of money. lawyer up and watch the scumbag lawyer beat you for half with a settlement for half. the whole dispute will drag on for months maybe years. you got enough to pay Sue' em and Screw' em attorneys at law? Lawyers suck, no better than the thieving scum at your company. sorry OP again. no one benefits from lawyers only the fucking scumbag lawyers themselves |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 8:03:24 AM EDT
[#18]
I would definitely consult an actual attorney in your area who handles employment related matters.
Honestly, this sounds like a totally fucked up situation. In a perfect world you'd have recourse. But we have a legal system, not a justice system, so who knows. Personally, I would get the lay of the land before going scorched earth. Who knows, once the details of what happened work their way around this may resolve itself. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 8:12:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Assuming there aren't any hidden details that detract from your position...
1. Legal action against now-former employer. Get paid. 2. Get job with competitor. Show them what happened. Get those contracts and bone your former company. ETA all legally of course. Of course it is more complicated than that, but that is the scorched earth path. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 8:29:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Did you have a contract of any description with your former employer? Is your employment with the former employer considered at-will in the state where you reside?
What is their policy on commissions “owed” at the point of termination? Did you sign any sort of acknowledgement stating you understood and agreed with aforementioned policy? Your theory on your bosses motivation may be sound, but can you prove it was this intentional step to absorb your book of business and pending commissions? Considering the questions above, I would go speak with an attorney in your state and bring any and all contracts, policies or acknowledgements that you may have to support your theory. I don’t see a free way to shake them into paying you. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 9:15:48 AM EDT
[#21]
We always say "play stupid games win stupid prizes" around here. OP's company has earned a stupid prize, which I hope comes in the form of the OP's commission, damages, and fees, and the fallout from playing fuck-fuck games with your salesmen, hopefully starting with loss of that client.
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Posted: 5/7/2021 9:22:19 AM EDT
[#22]
I had a very similar situation happen to me OP, but instead of firing me they tried to get me to quit. I ended up cutting a deal to resign if they let me out of my non-compete and keep 2 of my customers.
I think they still owe me a few hundred bucks in commission, which I'm not holding my breath on  Document everything, and file a dispute with L&I in your state. They will investigate, and most likely your employer will settle with you... maybe not everything, but hopefully some of it. Best of luck! Speed |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 9:43:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See reply from above In Kansas wages means Commision also Most states have statutory shit already to handle this type thing. AZ is a mothefucker about it. If they don’t pay you the state forces them to pay you 3X the amount that was due. AZ just pays you from the state with damages then adds it to the company’s tax liability if they need to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP Read this then call Kansas State Labor Board State labor doesn’t fuck around with deadbeat shifty employers they will ass rape them and get you paid. They get off on the power trip or it Direct from Kansas Statutes http://kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0015_section/044_003_0015_k/ 44-315. Separation prior to payday; damages for willful non-payment. (a) Whenever an employer discharges an employee or whenever an employee quits or resigns, the employer shall pay the employee's earned wages not later than the next regular payday upon which he or she would have been paid if still employed as provided under K.S.A. 44-314 either through the regular pay channels or by mail postmarked within the deadlines herein specified if requested by the employee. (b) If an employer willfully fails to pay an employee wages as required by K.S.A. 44-314, and amendments thereto, or as required under subsection (a) of this section, such employer shall be liable to the employee for the wages due and also shall be liable to the employee for a penalty in the fixed amount of 1% of the unpaid wages for each day, except Sunday and legal holidays, upon which such failure continues after the eighth day after the day upon which payment is required or in an amount equal to 100% of the unpaid wages, whichever is less. For the purpose of such additional damages, the failure to pay shall not be deemed to continue after the date of the filing of a petition in bankruptcy with respect to the employer if he or she is adjudicated bankrupt upon such petition nor shall it be deemed to continue after an appeal is filed under K.S.A. 44-322a, and amendments thereto, until the decision on appeal becomes final. In some cases commissions/bonuses are treated differently than wages. I'd do some more digging on that issue as it relates to commissions. See reply from above In Kansas wages means Commision also Most states have statutory shit already to handle this type thing. AZ is a mothefucker about it. If they don’t pay you the state forces them to pay you 3X the amount that was due. AZ just pays you from the state with damages then adds it to the company’s tax liability if they need to. That's why I said in some cases......  hopefully the OP nails them to the wall, that's a shitty employer. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 10:18:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's why I said in some cases...... hopefully the OP nails them to the wall, that's a shitty employer.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP Read this then call Kansas State Labor Board State labor doesn’t fuck around with deadbeat shifty employers they will ass rape them and get you paid. They get off on the power trip or it Direct from Kansas Statutes http://kslegislature.org/li_2014/b2013_14/statute/044_000_0000_chapter/044_003_0000_article/044_003_0015_section/044_003_0015_k/ 44-315. Separation prior to payday; damages for willful non-payment. (a) Whenever an employer discharges an employee or whenever an employee quits or resigns, the employer shall pay the employee's earned wages not later than the next regular payday upon which he or she would have been paid if still employed as provided under K.S.A. 44-314 either through the regular pay channels or by mail postmarked within the deadlines herein specified if requested by the employee. (b) If an employer willfully fails to pay an employee wages as required by K.S.A. 44-314, and amendments thereto, or as required under subsection (a) of this section, such employer shall be liable to the employee for the wages due and also shall be liable to the employee for a penalty in the fixed amount of 1% of the unpaid wages for each day, except Sunday and legal holidays, upon which such failure continues after the eighth day after the day upon which payment is required or in an amount equal to 100% of the unpaid wages, whichever is less. For the purpose of such additional damages, the failure to pay shall not be deemed to continue after the date of the filing of a petition in bankruptcy with respect to the employer if he or she is adjudicated bankrupt upon such petition nor shall it be deemed to continue after an appeal is filed under K.S.A. 44-322a, and amendments thereto, until the decision on appeal becomes final. In some cases commissions/bonuses are treated differently than wages. I'd do some more digging on that issue as it relates to commissions. See reply from above In Kansas wages means Commision also Most states have statutory shit already to handle this type thing. AZ is a mothefucker about it. If they don’t pay you the state forces them to pay you 3X the amount that was due. AZ just pays you from the state with damages then adds it to the company’s tax liability if they need to. That's why I said in some cases...... hopefully the OP nails them to the wall, that's a shitty employer.If OP sits back and thinks about it for a minute. The company has actually already created an agreement to pay “contract”. When they emailed him and stated he would be paid for it. Technicalities are his saving grace in all this. I emailed the HR director and she confirmed that I would be paid commission on that deal, and that it was approved by the SVP of Sales. I hate to see honest working folks get fucked on things but it happens all the time. Most don’t head for state statutes and read what the laws are. And shitty companies always want to pull the “attorney or lawsuit card”. Knowing that the courts are a fucked up game to being with that was designed to favor whomever can pay the most money to keep it going. The little guy takes it in the shorts cause he can’t typically fund a long drawn out legal battle. Hope OP comes back thru and reads all this stuff and gets his money. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 10:23:58 AM EDT
[#25]
You have an email from the HR rep telling you that you would be paid the $38k commission?
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Posted: 5/7/2021 10:34:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Surprised you met with two lawyers and they told you they won't pursue it. Do they know something we don't? Are they being asked to work for free? If so, then that's probably your answer. If I were in Kansas, I'd help you go after the 38k. So long as you have another 38k to spend trying to get it. Unless you're black, female or LGBTBBQ. |
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