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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:10:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? I thought most 2A sanctuary laws just prohibit local LEO from assisting the Feds. I think laws that say local cops can arrest federal cops for enforcing federal law isn’t going to go down well, and is probably unconstitutional. why would that be unconstitutional? its unconstitutional for the feds to enforce this BS. ETA. Marbury v. Madison |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:11:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/195/24fe070b7b4d5e683a36a1e4a80f73fb_jpg-1971600.JPG The 0-200 aperture works just fine at arm's length. Kharn That.... is actually kind of cool. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:11:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good to go? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240/5D5EB30F-C374-4C17-9EA5-A669A410E77F_jpe-1971617.JPG SBA brace, fixed sights, 10” barrel. SBA3 VERBOTEN! |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:13:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...intent to manufacture an SBR. No such thing..... "constructive possession" is the charge ...... your "Intent" doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:13:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? I thought most 2A sanctuary laws just prohibit local LEO from assisting the Feds. I think laws that say local cops can arrest federal cops for enforcing federal law isn’t going to go down well, and is probably unconstitutional. Even if they *never* make that arrest it will still have performed the function of shifting the overton window. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:14:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that’s true... why dick around with the brace in the first place Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't take orders from criminal pedophiles. I dont take orders from POTUS I dont work for the Gov. I'm not a peasant either I wont do what the king says, fuck that dickhead. If that’s true... why dick around with the brace in the first place have you no culture? Or appreciation for plausible deniability? For shame |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:15:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good to go? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240/5D5EB30F-C374-4C17-9EA5-A669A410E77F_jpe-1971617.JPG SBA brace, fixed sights, 10" barrel. @JIMBEAM - all firearms equipped with SBA3 or SBA4 braces fail the point test. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:16:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good to go? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240/5D5EB30F-C374-4C17-9EA5-A669A410E77F_jpe-1971617.JPG SBA brace, fixed sights, 10” barrel.  |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:18:29 PM EDT
[#9]
I just tallied up my points. It doesn't equal 4.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:22:50 PM EDT
[#10]
As Americans if you draw a dick on the side of the receiver we all start out at -50 points so have at it.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:23:30 PM EDT
[#11]
I believe this rule basically eliminates EVERY brace used on short pistol caliber guns like all B&T, MP5s, MPXs, Scorpions, or Stribogs.
Better start making 16" barreled versions  
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:24:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That gun if this ruling become final and implemented will be an illegal SBR. Not only does it not meet the minimum weight threshold (64oz) to even be eligible to wear a pistol stabilizing brace as configured but it will lose even more weight when the accessory brace is removed in order to determine its official pistol brace weight eligibility. The brace installed is an SBA3 which under the current system is virtually impossible to pass the points test and would be considered a stock when installed on any pistol. An M&P 15-22 pistol will need to have weight added to it, but not in the form of a detachable accessory. You could conceivably attach a metal pistol grip and replace some of the polymer parts with steel or something. Or add a heavier muzzle device. If you could find a metal magazine that would be an option too, since weight is supposed to be taken with accessories removed and an unloaded magazine inserted. From there, remove the SBA3 and replace with an acceptable brace pinned to the max length that would net you 3 points or less. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:26:33 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:29:16 PM EDT
[#14]
There's little need to continue dissecting this asinine collection of criteria and points.
This is a wholesale, shameless, big government attack on MILLIONS of currently law abiding Americans. It's an effort to force registration and/or to create criminals where none previously existed. This set of "rules" has clearly been written to exclude pretty much everything from being legal and to create an absolute Orwellian compliance and punishment system. It's a de facto BAN. That's what matters, not the fucking math around features and "points". |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:32:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's little need to continue dissecting this asinine collection of criteria and points. This is a wholesale, shameless, big government attack on MILLIONS of currently law abiding Americans. It's an effort to force registration and/or to create criminals where none previously existed. This set of "rules" has clearly been written to exclude pretty much everything from being legal and to create an absolute Orwellian compliance and punishment system. It's a de facto BAN. That's what matters, not the fucking math around features and "points". Bingo ! |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:37:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's little need to continue dissecting this asinine collection of criteria and points. This is a wholesale, shameless, big government attack on MILLIONS of currently law abiding Americans. It's an effort to force registration and/or to create criminals where none previously existed. Those MILLIONS (me included) need to donate a little funding to the solid 2A-defense foundations. I would hope once they try to go live with these rules, the lawsuits will ensue. I'm not changing shit, but I won't be posting anymore videos of me naked doing drills with my "pistols"...private ranges are private (for now)... ROCK6 |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:39:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's little need to continue dissecting this asinine collection of criteria and points. This is a wholesale, shameless, big government attack on MILLIONS of currently law abiding Americans. It's an effort to force registration and/or to create criminals where none previously existed. This set of "rules" has clearly been written to exclude pretty much everything from being legal and to create an absolute Orwellian compliance and punishment system. It's a de facto BAN. That's what matters, not the fucking math around features and "points". Absolutely correct. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:44:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those MILLIONS (me included) need to donate a little funding to the solid 2A-defense foundations. I would hope once they try to go live with these rules, the lawsuits will ensue. I'm not changing shit, but I won't be posting anymore videos of me naked doing drills with my "pistols"...private ranges are private (for now)... ROCK6 I guess one positive thing can come from this stupid ruling
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:47:36 PM EDT
[#19]
I sold off my last three evil rifles that were 4473ed last Nov. One was a serialed AR pistol w/an 11.5" upper and an SBa3 to a friend. He will probably SBR it.
Post-election, I just knew in my heart this would happen. Because of that, I completed an 80% carbine last Dec and another 80% lower this past weekend. I had been toying with the idea of a .300 blackout pistol. I have long term C5 palsy and wonder if I'd make a good test specimen for this whole debacle. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:48:24 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm so glad we have the NRA at a time like this.....
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:51:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve had it happen on ranges in Md and Pa. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where are you people shooting that you're concerned about someone checking for stamps? I'm not Richie Rich shooting on my 1000 acres, i go to the ghetto ranges and occasionally the nicer indoor places when it rains. I used to go shoot on public lands when there were public lands in TX to shoot on. Have never had mine, or seen someone else's weapon inspected by LE, or even heard of anyone being asked for their stamp. I've shot with some folks with SBRs and had some take home goodies from work that I've shot at public ranges and never been acosted. Just carry on as you have. If you have a range thats participating in this silliness then call them out here. I’ve had it happen on ranges in Md and Pa. isn't that Canada?
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:06:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you make that with the intent to use it from the shoulder or to use as a braced handgun? Even if it passes the point system. It fails if you intended (or they determined you intended) to use the brace as a shoulder stock. This important point is being missed in this thread. Intent may be hard or impossible to prove, but rap/ride and all that. Note: I don’t like any of this. But that is the reality of the world we live in with the laws as they are Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good to go? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240/5D5EB30F-C374-4C17-9EA5-A669A410E77F_jpe-1971617.JPG SBA brace, fixed sights, 10” barrel. Did you make that with the intent to use it from the shoulder or to use as a braced handgun? Even if it passes the point system. It fails if you intended (or they determined you intended) to use the brace as a shoulder stock. This important point is being missed in this thread. Intent may be hard or impossible to prove, but rap/ride and all that. Note: I don’t like any of this. But that is the reality of the world we live in with the laws as they are Of course I had no intent to shoulder this weapon. My documented nerve damage has weakened my grip. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:09:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @JIMBEAM - all firearms equipped with SBA3 or SBA4 braces fail the point test. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good to go? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240/5D5EB30F-C374-4C17-9EA5-A669A410E77F_jpe-1971617.JPG SBA brace, fixed sights, 10" barrel. @JIMBEAM - all firearms equipped with SBA3 or SBA4 braces fail the point test. Well I am 0 for 2, No 9mm AR pistol or Roni for me. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:16:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I'm so glad we have the NRA at a time like this..... |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:17:55 PM EDT
[#25]
It could be argued that the one-handed rule is in direct conflict with the ATF`s own handgun training curriculum, which I`m sure is the same as most training methods, i.e. the firing hand is supported by the other hand for stability.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:23:56 PM EDT
[#26]
What if you remove the plug on the back of the sba3? Is that the "extra material" gone?
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:24:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't SB Tactical publish a letter from the ATF telling them to stop submitting every variation of the basic brace concept? The original design was approved and the ATF didn't have time to look at every variation of the "2 flaps and a velcro strap" concept, therefore everything up through SBA3 and SBM4 has been sold in good faith as approved. And the Tailhook Mod1 and Mod2 have approval letters. And the Shockwave has an approval letter - without a strap. Yes, yes, yes and yes. Until someone changes their mind. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:26:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how this is going to affect braces on the shorty shotguns like the Shockwave, tac 14, tac 13 extra? Verboten. Fill out 5320.1. Pay the king $200. Do not pass Go. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:27:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good to go? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240/5D5EB30F-C374-4C17-9EA5-A669A410E77F_jpe-1971617.JPG SBA brace, fixed sights, 10” barrel. Nope. SBA3 is an automatic fail |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:27:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It could be argued that the one-handed rule is in direct conflict with the ATF`s own handgun training curriculum, which I`m sure is the same as most training methods, i.e. the firing hand is supported by the other hand for stability. The fucking US Constitution could be argued too. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:30:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you remove the plug on the back of the sba3? Is that the "extra material" gone? Modifying a brace is extra demerit points |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:43:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump won in 2020. I voted for him happily twice. Democrats would have found a way to fuck us no matter what. BUT The bump stock "re-definition" of what counts as a machine gun 100% set us up for this, as both the 80% rule and this rule are "re-definitions" and we have to squarely put that on President Kushner and his puppet, Donald Trump. They would have done it anyway. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:44:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about Biden and his people go and fuck themselves? Real deep. Perhaps choke on a dick after that. They already do that on the regular. What you are describing is not a punishment for them, it is recreation. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:46:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep.. they just outlawed ak47 pistol, ar15 pistols, the scorpion, etc, etc, etc... welcome to AWB 2.0 Except this time we will need to ADD weight to keep legal guns. Fucking minimum weight now instead of max weight.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any type of handguard can fit this criteria. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/4_JPG-1970531.JPG Yep.. they just outlawed ak47 pistol, ar15 pistols, the scorpion, etc, etc, etc... welcome to AWB 2.0 Except this time we will need to ADD weight to keep legal guns. Fucking minimum weight now instead of max weight. Wouldn't they only be outlawed with a brace? |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:49:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe not actually supported it,but many made excuses/justifications/defenses for it. And some of us voiced the concern over that not being the last thing they go after without the need for Congress. And here we are. Well,here you are,since I don't own a Brace or AR pistol and at this point will comment in favor of the new rules. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This. He isn't wrong, but annoying as fuck. He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . Maybe not actually supported it,but many made excuses/justifications/defenses for it. And some of us voiced the concern over that not being the last thing they go after without the need for Congress. And here we are. Well,here you are,since I don't own a Brace or AR pistol and at this point will comment in favor of the new rules. You disgust me 
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:53:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't they only be outlawed with a brace? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Any type of handguard can fit this criteria. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/4_JPG-1970531.JPG Yep.. they just outlawed ak47 pistol, ar15 pistols, the scorpion, etc, etc, etc... welcome to AWB 2.0 Except this time we will need to ADD weight to keep legal guns. Fucking minimum weight now instead of max weight. Wouldn't they only be outlawed with a brace? |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:53:41 PM EDT
[#37]
The “checklist” is irrational and subjective. It will be fought, because it is OBVIOUS that it is about banning guns, and nothing else.
Why did the ‘94 AWB make adjustable stocks an “evil” feature? Because it allowed you to make the weapon SHORTER. Why does this proposed checklist make adjustable braces an “evil” feature? Because it allowed you to make the weapon LONGER. Pistol grips were considered “evil” because it allowed you to “fire from the hip” and “spray bullets.” |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:56:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck that. People will start CNCing multiple same serial numbers on lowers and cans in a one stamp fits all manner.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:58:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if they *never* make that arrest it will still have performed the function of shifting the overton window. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seriously? I thought most 2A sanctuary laws just prohibit local LEO from assisting the Feds. I think laws that say local cops can arrest federal cops for enforcing federal law isn’t going to go down well, and is probably unconstitutional. Even if they *never* make that arrest it will still have performed the function of shifting the overton window. Didn't the ATF just hire 870 new agents? |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 2:59:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm so glad we have the NRA at a time like this..... I just got a renewal solicitation from them. Threw it in the trash. FPC, GOA, SAF will be getting my money from now on. They seem to be the only ones actually fighting this shit in court now. NRA is too busy trying to save itself from its own corruption to actually lobby or fight court cases. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:01:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And don't forget who they were consulting with at the time ... the NRA. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Trump won in 2020. I voted for him happily twice. Democrats would have found a way to fuck us no matter what. BUT The bump stock "re-definition" of what counts as a machine gun 100% set us up for this, as both the 80% rule and this rule are "re-definitions" and we have to squarely put that on President Kushner and his puppet, Donald Trump. The NRA PREMPTIVELY APPROACHED THEM ABOUT IT... |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:02:42 PM EDT
[#42]
So when does this new "rule" go into affect? Are all manufactures supposed to halt sales of braced pistols now? And the actual braces also?
So many questions..... |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:03:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Modifying a brace is extra demerit points Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if you remove the plug on the back of the sba3? Is that the "extra material" gone? Modifying a brace is extra demerit points "I'm sorry sir, it broke while mortaring." |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:05:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So when does this new "rule" go into affect? Are all manufactures supposed to halt sales of braced pistols now? And the actual braces also? So many questions..... Nothing has changed braced ARs are being manufactured and sold all day and everywhere. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:07:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The “checklist” is irrational and subjective. It will be fought, because it is OBVIOUS that it is about banning guns, and nothing else. Why did the ‘94 AWB make adjustable stocks an “evil” feature? Because it allowed you to make the weapon SHORTER. Why does this proposed checklist make adjustable braces an “evil” feature? Because it allowed you to make the weapon LONGER. Pistol grips were considered “evil” because it allowed you to “fire from the hip” and “spray bullets.” The legal beagles(penguins?) better get on the ball. Things in 94 were a bit different, yes? |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:08:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NRA PREMPTIVELY APPROACHED THEM ABOUT IT... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:Trump won in 2020. I voted for him happily twice. Democrats would have found a way to fuck us no matter what. BUT The bump stock "re-definition" of what counts as a machine gun 100% set us up for this, as both the 80% rule and this rule are "re-definitions" and we have to squarely put that on President Kushner and his puppet, Donald Trump. The NRA PREMPTIVELY APPROACHED THEM ABOUT IT... I wouldn't be surprised if nra collaborated with baft on this brace ban. The LOP lengths are based on old nra writings if I'm not mistaken. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:10:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And obama tried to get Bumpstocks banned twice-and failed. Then along comes Trump to show how it's done-tell the doj to force the atf to change the definition of something. Gets it done with almost no pushback. Shirley the dems didn't pay attention to the way it was done and decided to do it the same way? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Trump won in 2020. I voted for him happily twice. Democrats would have found a way to fuck us no matter what. BUT The bump stock "re-definition" of what counts as a machine gun 100% set us up for this, as both the 80% rule and this rule are "re-definitions" and we have to squarely put that on President Kushner and his puppet, Donald Trump. You do realize that the ATF, and it's predecessor agency have been reclassifying firearms and accessories since the NFA was written ????? The "set up" for this started almost 90 years ago.....when the law gave them the authority to do it. The only "fix" would be to effectively remove their interpretation / rule-making authority by rewriting Title 2 of the GCA......and that would require actual legislation. When was the last time you think such legislation would have made it's way thru the House/Senate, and to the Presidents desk?? hint: never And obama tried to get Bumpstocks banned twice-and failed. Then along comes Trump to show how it's done-tell the doj to force the atf to change the definition of something. Gets it done with almost no pushback. Shirley the dems didn't pay attention to the way it was done and decided to do it the same way? This is the honest to God truth that the majority refuse to accept. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:11:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't the ATF just hire 870 new agents? Ooooooh, scary! 870 additional agents are barely a rounding error to police a country this large. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:11:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fucking US Constitution could be argued too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It could be argued that the one-handed rule is in direct conflict with the ATF`s own handgun training curriculum, which I`m sure is the same as most training methods, i.e. the firing hand is supported by the other hand for stability. The fucking US Constitution could be argued too. In this case the one-handed rule is a direct contradiction to their own rules and procedures for themselves, and it`s not just a commonly used practice to use both hands for stability, but the default method for firing a handgun. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 3:12:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The legal beagles(penguins?) better get on the ball. Things in 94 were a bit different, yes? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The “checklist” is irrational and subjective. It will be fought, because it is OBVIOUS that it is about banning guns, and nothing else. Why did the ‘94 AWB make adjustable stocks an “evil” feature? Because it allowed you to make the weapon SHORTER. Why does this proposed checklist make adjustable braces an “evil” feature? Because it allowed you to make the weapon LONGER. Pistol grips were considered “evil” because it allowed you to “fire from the hip” and “spray bullets.” The legal beagles(penguins?) better get on the ball. Things in 94 were a bit different, yes? That was a LAW. |
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