Posted: 8/13/2026 4:58:27 PM EDT
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https://blog.prusa3d.com/better-prints-easier-use-prusa-xl-core-one-l-and-core-one-gen-2-our-big-product-update_137539/ Highlights include: Nozzle wipers New actively heated enclosure for the XL Automatic Pressure advance for Nextruder Prusa Connect Local Let the shitposting commence!  |
Easily irritated engineer of odd things
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Originally Posted By Blob: The HT hotend will push the nextruder to 400C. Should be able to roll your own for much less money once the firmware is released. What happened to open source firmware? Curious to see how they impliment auto pressure advance. Bambu uses the chute to extrude at variable speed and measure pressure buildup along the flow curve. Prusa doesnt have that. Maybe variable speed along an extrusion priming line? |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: What happened to open source firmware? Curious to see how they impliment auto pressure advance. Bambu uses the chute to extrude at variable speed and measure pressure buildup along the flow curve. Prusa doesnt have that. Maybe variable speed along an extrusion priming line? It's still open source and nothing is stopping anyone from doing it now. There's actually a big thread on the prusa forum from a guy who has done the mod already, I would just rather wait for an official release myself because I don't want to mess anything up. My old Mk3 is rocking custom high temp firmware and a PT1000 thermistor in a mosquito hotend. CNC kitchen recently made a video about how he was able to get the automatic pressure advance using the loadcell. It's pretty interesting.  I Automated Pressure Advance Using a Bed-Leveling Sensor |
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CNCK is good stuff. Id like to see someone do dynamic pressure advance. Maybe not needed but the implementation Ive seen (on the two Ive seen do it, Bambu and Creality) calculates it on the front end but I think technically the value is dynamic and shifts. No reason it couldnt be done dynamically though from a HW POV. Ive only had one print come out weird from an obviously bogus result. Ive stopped even setting up K factors in my profile because filament moisture cant alter the value enough to make the K factor drift ever so slightly. The auto calibration gets it close enough every time its not worth the effort for my uses. |
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Let me accelerate the shitstorm here. Full Disclosure, I own a Prusa but recommended a Bambu to my friend. Blob I know you're a Prusa fan and Obsessed is team Bambu. I like Prusa, but it seems to be at a considerable price premuim. Plus, for the cost of an upgrade I can purchase a Bambu that has those features and more, and STILL have my MK4s. I currently own a MK4s, which to me is a nice printer, the Prusa connect seems a bit clunky and it's slow to load STLs and warm up, plus it's missing some pretty mainstream filament profiles. Maybe some of these issues are me, maybe some are absolutely normal. Am I missing something obvious? I know Prusa just made a bunch of upgrades but apparently the MK4s is not included, yes, Prusa are upgradable, but for basically the cost of a new printer. Prusa To upgrade my MK4s to the Core and add multicolor capability is $1100 MK4s Base unit (no MMU or enclosure) $1000 MK4s w/ MMU and Enclosure $1550 A Core 1 + is $1299 no MMU Plus, reviews on the MMU are not great at all. Maybe Prusa is more geared to the advanced user? Bambu Bambu has so many options it's hard to do a 1:1 comparison, I'm trying to compare the average user (myself I suppose, who prints a few times a week or month, not making prototypes or industrial components) P2s $550 (includes enclosure and camera) Probably closest to MK4s P2s combo w/ AMS $750 X2d $650 With AMS $900 With dual AMS$1150 H2s $1200 w/ AMS H2D $1500w/ AMS |
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I was just on the Prusa site about 20 min ago.. looking at the Core 1 offerings then I went down the MMU rabbit hole.. and the comment above about that is concerning.. more homework to do I guess.... Everyone I've talked to that has a Bamboo, love it.. I'm not sure I want a chinese made machine, and given the ccp control over everything and the stupid bs about the open source soft ware those idiots can't seem to understand.... |
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Originally Posted By RED_5: I was just on the Prusa site about 20 min ago.. looking at the Core 1 offerings then I went down the MMU rabbit hole.. and the comment above about that is concerning.. more homework to do I guess.... Everyone I've talked to that has a Bamboo, love it.. I'm not sure I want a chinese made machine, and given the ccp control over everything and the stupid bs about the open source soft ware those idiots can't seem to understand.... This is the main reason I went with Prusa. It's not that I'm team Prusa, it's that I try to avoid buying Chinese whenever reasonably possible, and especially when the product is going to be connected to my home or employer's network. I have two Core Ones at home and another at work and they have all been solid performers. No, they aren't as feature rich as bambu and they do cost more, but they are completely open and highly moddable and Prusa supports their products for many years after release which is great. If you want multi material capabilities then the INDX system is nearing its commercial release. It has potential to be the best MM system on the market. |
Easily irritated engineer of odd things
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Originally Posted By Blob: This is the main reason I went with Prusa. It's not that I'm team Prusa, it's that I try to avoid buying Chinese whenever reasonably possible, and especially when the product is going to be connected to my home or employer's network. I have two Core Ones at home and another at work and they have all been solid performers. No, they aren't as feature rich as bambu and they do cost more, but they are completely open and highly moddable and Prusa supports their products for many years after release which is great. If you want multi material capabilities then the INDX system is nearing its commercial release. It has potential to be the best MM system on the market. |
Once you realize that all power comes from the credible threat of the use of deadly force, and the gov't hates you, most things become easy to understand..
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I'm with everyone on the Chyna aspect, but just like the DJI drones- dammit they just work! if I were a business owner, mfg, .Gov, military etc... I have no doubt that somehow Chyna will get your designs, unless extraordinary measures are taken. Then you have the Bambu Open Source debacle and lawsuits. ItsAllSoTiresome.jpeg Tell me more about hte INVX (probably got that wrong) system @Blob I recall you talking something about the INDX system that was supposed to be part of it but now is not.... .6mm heads?? What about the filament, is it open to the elements or in a heated chamber. So now I need a core1+ and an indx system to the tune of $2.2k+ plus a dryer to print from? Ouch |
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Originally Posted By bmarshall1: I'm with everyone on the Chyna aspect, but just like the DJI drones- dammit they just work! if I were a business owner, mfg, .Gov, military etc... I have no doubt that somehow Chyna will get your designs, unless extraordinary measures are taken. Then you have the Bambu Open Source debacle and lawsuits. ItsAllSoTiresome.jpeg Tell me more about hte INVX (probably got that wrong) system @Blob I recall you talking something about the INDX system that was supposed to be part of it but now is not.... .6mm heads?? What about the filament, is it open to the elements or in a heated chamber. So now I need a core1+ and an indx system to the tune of $2.2k+ plus a dryer to print from? Ouch Gotta hand it to Bambus marketing department convincing the masses that "they just work." Guess what? They're not the only machine that "just works." They have their fare share of problems, just look through all the threads here with the issues that bambu users are having. When you step away from generic PLA/PETG/ABS profiles and into the world of engineering materials then you still want to do all the calibrations and tunings that you'd be doing with any other printer. The INDX system is developed by bondtech and they are partnering with Prusa to bring it to the Core One family. Bondtech had a pre-production release recently and they failed to deliver on several of their promises. They have been exceptionally shitty in terms of communication and their attitude towards upset customers. Prusa will be handling the commercial release and hopefully will do a much better job, but they don't have a spotless track record themselves. Yes, INDX is expensive. Yes, the stock setup leaves the spools in the open air. There are lots of aftermarket solutions that you can put together ranging from cheap and good enough, to expensive and high quality. I don't need a color changing solution so I am happy with my single nozzle setup. At most, a dual nozzle machine would suity parts the best. I was quoting a job for my side business that required a large format heated machine for some big ABS parts and I came close to buying an H2D because it was the only turn-key machine on the market that was capable, but ended up not getting the job so I didn't buy one. |
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Originally Posted By bmarshall1: Let me accelerate the shitstorm here. Full Disclosure, I own a Prusa but recommended a Bambu to my friend. Blob I know you're a Prusa fan and Obsessed is team Bambu. I like Prusa, but it seems to be at a considerable price premuim. Plus, for the cost of an upgrade I can purchase a Bambu that has those features and more, and STILL have my MK4s. I currently own a MK4s, which to me is a nice printer, the Prusa connect seems a bit clunky and it's slow to load STLs and warm up, plus it's missing some pretty mainstream filament profiles. Maybe some of these issues are me, maybe some are absolutely normal. Am I missing something obvious? I know Prusa just made a bunch of upgrades but apparently the MK4s is not included, yes, Prusa are upgradable, but for basically the cost of a new printer. Prusa To upgrade my MK4s to the Core and add multicolor capability is $1100 MK4s Base unit (no MMU or enclosure) $1000 MK4s w/ MMU and Enclosure $1550 A Core 1 + is $1299 no MMU Plus, reviews on the MMU are not great at all. Maybe Prusa is more geared to the advanced user? Bambu Bambu has so many options it's hard to do a 1:1 comparison, I'm trying to compare the average user (myself I suppose, who prints a few times a week or month, not making prototypes or industrial components) P2s $550 (includes enclosure and camera) Probably closest to MK4s P2s combo w/ AMS $750 X2d $650 With AMS $900 With dual AMS$1150 H2s $1200 w/ AMS H2D $1500w/ AMS Originally Posted By RED_5: I was just on the Prusa site about 20 min ago.. looking at the Core 1 offerings then I went down the MMU rabbit hole.. and the comment above about that is concerning.. more homework to do I guess.... Everyone I've talked to that has a Bamboo, love it.. I'm not sure I want a chinese made machine, and given the ccp control over everything and the stupid bs about the open source soft ware those idiots can't seem to understand.... Okay let me go into a bit more detail. I currently own 2 printers. A Bambu X1C w/2 AMS Units, and a Bambu H2D w/3 AMS Units (five units total). I now only print for "fun" and for functional/mechanical prints around the house. I used to own a fairly successful 3D printing business that fell into my lap essentially as people kept asking to buy prints of my designs. I ended up designing a dozen or so models that I sold over the course of the three years I ran the business, and I had over 2,000 orders when I stopped counting at the beginning of year three. I shipped to all fifty states, Canada, and even two countries in South America and one in Africa. At my peak, I was printing >3kg/day of filament, and monthly orders were 100kg.  During MOST of that time, I didn't have Bambu. I had Prusas. Two of them. MK3S+ Units. One of them Had MMU, then MMU2, then MMU3. I've literally owned every iteration they have offered, and I've ran the MK3S+ printers both bone stock, and also with Mosquito Hotends, High output heaters, etc etc. Collectively, I put over 22,000 hours on those two printers. To my knowledge, that's more print time than anyone else active on this forum has racked up, and that's just on those two. That ignores my Ender 3 (which I bought AFTER those just to be able to talk from experience on how shitty they are - they are btw). That one I had less than 500 hours on when I threw it away. I now have about 4,000 hours on my two Bambus. So call it 26,000 hours of print time. Quite a bit of experience as I was printing, testing, experimenting, and calibrating new methods and new products all the time. During that time, I was able to get the MMU barely function, the MMU2 to about 98% reliability (which is better than Prusa even claimed to be normal), and the MMU3 I was able to get to about 99% reliability. MMU is also limited, no matter what, to five spools. That can be five colors, five materials, or four colors + interface. They were in Lack enclosures, and I had custom modified both of them to feed from a reverse bowden setup with custom filament sensors designed by myself as the stock ones would wear out FAR too quickly. Attached File I ran primarily PETG. Using the Mosquito with a Bondtech CHT hardened nozzle, I was able to tune Polymaker PETG filament to print reliably at 42mm³ before I ran into issues. Now, on a 0.6mm nozzle, that's still not super fast in terms of mm/s speed, so I never had a huge issue with them being bed slingers or having any kind of resonance compensation. Parts came out flawless over 95% of the time. I was happy with the results. I had the first (orange) MK3S+ Fail 16 times. I actually tracked failures, and significant failures, I also noted here on this forum. I had a main board fail at 4,500 hours, I had a stepper motor fail at 4,850 hours, and I had a thermal runaway due to a failed (already replaced nearly a dozen times) at few times. The green MK3S+ had five or six failures, none major. I built it from the beginning with a Mosquito and upgraded Slice heater cartridge. It mostly just burned through thermistors, print fans, heater cartridges, basically the wires would break. My Prusas failed, on average, about every thousand hours. I was proficient enough at the end I could completely (and I mean completely) disassemble and reassemble one without instructions. I had rebuilt the E axis over a dozen times alone. I've had one failure on my Bambus, total, in 4,000 hours, though the failure happened when newish, at 1,480 hours. Notice my verbiage used in that thread. Not necessarily biased heavily towards Bambu. Here is a thread on some of the issues with my Prusas. Note the verbiage used at the top of that post, as well. I said yes, still love Prusa. Over the years, I've gained an immense amount of experience with both companies. Even more than just above, as whenever I had issues with Prusa I had to troubleshoot, jump through hoops, etc, and then I also went through a journey trying to get a 5-Toolhead XL, same journey Rat went through. I've printed things with my X1C that the Prusa literally wasn't capable of. I've done 8 color prints with a support interface, for example. AMS is 99.9% reliable in my experience, and the 0.1% failure is nearly always a miswound spool. I've done TENS of THOUSANDS of filament swaps across all my prints, and I literally can count on two hands the total amount of failures I've had, again, almost all of which were jammed spools from filament being tangled on a factory spool. I don't think Prusa is a bad machine. Over the years, I've criticized any company that I feel deserves it. Josef Prusa is a man who loves to bury his head in the sand, ignore his base, and believes his arrogance and once prominent place in the market would carry him into the sunset. He is on record saying nozzle wipers are dumb, heated chambers are completely unnecessary, nozzle parking is pointless, and speed is a gimmick. He has now reversed course on every single one of those statements, and thinks he's some genius for bringing things to his printers that competitors have now had for YEARS. He trash talked the X1C so bad when it released. He trash talked the mobile app. He trash talked the poop chute. He trash talked the nozzle wiper. He trash talked the high speed, he said the automatic flow rate compensation and resonance compensation were unnecessary. The X1C brought ALL of these things to the consumer printer market for the first time. It was a groundbreaking machine, even ignoring the AMS system. Even today, the X1C is a very capable printer, though a lack of a heated chamber limits its usefulness in the rise of engineering filaments, especially among the 2A community. He also loves to make promises, and fail to deliver them. There are promised updates to MK4 users that he promised features in the firmware TWO years ago. Still nothing. He promised dates and features of the XL that never came. He promised the same with INDX in working with Bondtech. They kept delaying, again, and again, and then fucked people (KNOWINGLY) by shipping standard nozzles when hardened nozzles were bought and paid for. They told users they could choose sizes...nope, that was a lie too. Then, of course, as I called out at the very beginning, the volume of the chamber was 40% larger so the chamber would never get to a proper temp for engineering filaments, which whaddayaknow, is coming true now. They also never delivered better than 300C, so you still can't necessarily print a lot of engineering filaments anyway. Is Bambu perfect? No. Of course not. I don't think a Bambu could ever rack 14,000 hours on it. I'd be surprised if it could match the longevity of the Prusa. Do I like that it's a "walled garden?" Not necessarily, but it's overblown. LAN mode is a thing (which, btw, is all the Prusa was ever capable of until they released their own garden). So it still had the same security and functionality of the Prusa, just had added capabilities that Prusa didn't have. Yet it got criticized for it because "China." Yes, it's Chinese. No getting around that. Almost all printers are though. And, to Bambu's credit, they have innovated more than any other company has in the FDM space. They have more firsts than anybody, including Prusa, despite being a relative newcomer. I welcome any innovation in the space, and have to give credit where credit is due. They also operate EXTREMELY fast, and actually listen to their customer base on feature requests. People have BEGGED Prusa for calibration integration into PrusaSlicer like OrcaSlicer. Josef says no. Users asked Bambu to do it for BBS. The very next release, they were there, plus a TON of other features. Bambu updates their firmware with features the customers ask for. They wanted AMS drying while printing. Bambu said sure, give us a month or two. Customers wanted to be able to have one AMS feed both nozzles on the H2D, H2C, and X2D. Bambu said sure, let us develop something and we'll release it ASAP. Customers wanted a way to feed TPU reliably. No issue, we'll design a solution for that. They listen, they innovate, and they deliver what is asked for. The only true complaint I have against them is their stupid security patch fiasco that forces BBS with latest firmware. I, at the same breath, am annoyed with OS developers because Bambu offered an API solution that would have plugged into OS software and made it seamless and OS said to F off. That said, They did allow you to bypass it in LAN only mode, which, meets the needs of the users while meeting the needs of the company. Having unfettered access for any open source software developer to your servers is admittedly a crazy thing to expect. So I can still see why, I just wish there was a cleaner solve. So, there you have it. I'm an open book. I truly am open-minded, and I hope that Prusa implements the changes they are now making quickly, and I hope they continue to actually try to advance the hobby forward instead of simply making a non-Chinese model that is three times the price with half the features, and calling it a day. That isn't ideal for the hobby. |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Okay let me go into a bit more detail. I currently own 2 printers. A Bambu X1C w/2 AMS Units, and a Bambu H2D w/3 AMS Units (five units total). I now only print for "fun" and for functional/mechanical prints around the house. I used to own a fairly successful 3D printing business that fell into my lap essentially as people kept asking to buy prints of my designs. I ended up designing a dozen or so models that I sold over the course of the three years I ran the business, and I had over 2,000 orders when I stopped counting at the beginning of year three. I shipped to all fifty states, Canada, and even two countries in South America and one in Africa. At my peak, I was printing >3kg/day of filament, and monthly orders were 100kg. During MOST of that time, I didn't have Bambu. I had Prusas. Two of them. MK3S+ Units. One of them Had MMU, then MMU2, then MMU3. I've literally owned every iteration they have offered, and I've ran the MK3S+ printers both bone stock, and also with Mosquito Hotends, High output heaters, etc etc. Collectively, I put over 22,000 hours on those two printers. To my knowledge, that's more print time than anyone else active on this forum has racked up, and that's just on those two. That ignores my Ender 3 (which I bought AFTER those just to be able to talk from experience on how shitty they are - they are btw). That one I had less than 500 hours on when I threw it away. I now have about 4,000 hours on my two Bambus. So call it 26,000 hours of print time. Quite a bit of experience as I was printing, testing, experimenting, and calibrating new methods and new products all the time. During that time, I was able to get the MMU barely function, the MMU2 to about 98% reliability (which is better than Prusa even claimed to be normal), and the MMU3 I was able to get to about 99% reliability. MMU is also limited, no matter what, to five spools. That can be five colors, five materials, or four colors + interface. They were in Lack enclosures, and I had custom modified both of them to feed from a reverse bowden setup with custom filament sensors designed by myself as the stock ones would wear out FAR too quickly. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467079/20221121_202746_jpg-3811307.JPG I ran primarily PETG. Using the Mosquito with a Bondtech CHT hardened nozzle, I was able to tune Polymaker PETG filament to print reliably at 42mm³ before I ran into issues. Now, on a 0.6mm nozzle, that's still not super fast in terms of mm/s speed, so I never had a huge issue with them being bed slingers or having any kind of resonance compensation. Parts came out flawless over 95% of the time. I was happy with the results. I had the first (orange) MK3S+ Fail 16 times. I actually tracked failures, and significant failures, I also noted here on this forum. I had a main board fail at 4,500 hours, I had a stepper motor fail at 4,850 hours, and I had a thermal runaway due to a failed (already replaced nearly a dozen times) at few times. The green MK3S+ had five or six failures, none major. I built it from the beginning with a Mosquito and upgraded Slice heater cartridge. It mostly just burned through thermistors, print fans, heater cartridges, basically the wires would break. My Prusas failed, on average, about every thousand hours. I was proficient enough at the end I could completely (and I mean completely) disassemble and reassemble one without instructions. I had rebuilt the E axis over a dozen times alone. I've had one failure on my Bambus, total, in 4,000 hours, though the failure happened when newish, at 1,480 hours. Notice my verbiage used in that thread. Not necessarily biased heavily towards Bambu. Here is a thread on some of the issues with my Prusas. Note the verbiage used at the top of that post, as well. I said yes, still love Prusa. Over the years, I've gained an immense amount of experience with both companies. Even more than just above, as whenever I had issues with Prusa I had to troubleshoot, jump through hoops, etc, and then I also went through a journey trying to get a 5-Toolhead XL, same journey Rat went through. I've printed things with my X1C that the Prusa literally wasn't capable of. I've done 8 color prints with a support interface, for example. AMS is 99.9% reliable in my experience, and the 0.1% failure is nearly always a miswound spool. I've done TENS of THOUSANDS of filament swaps across all my prints, and I literally can count on two hands the total amount of failures I've had, again, almost all of which were jammed spools from filament being tangled on a factory spool. I don't think Prusa is a bad machine. Over the years, I've criticized any company that I feel deserves it. Josef Prusa is a man who loves to bury his head in the sand, ignore his base, and believes his arrogance and once prominent place in the market would carry him into the sunset. He is on record saying nozzle wipers are dumb, heated chambers are completely unnecessary, nozzle parking is pointless, and speed is a gimmick. He has now reversed course on every single one of those statements, and thinks he's some genius for bringing things to his printers that competitors have now had for YEARS. He trash talked the X1C so bad when it released. He trash talked the mobile app. He trash talked the poop chute. He trash talked the nozzle wiper. He trash talked the high speed, he said the automatic flow rate compensation and resonance compensation were unnecessary. The X1C brought ALL of these things to the consumer printer market for the first time. It was a groundbreaking machine, even ignoring the AMS system. Even today, the X1C is a very capable printer, though a lack of a heated chamber limits its usefulness in the rise of engineering filaments, especially among the 2A community. He also loves to make promises, and fail to deliver them. There are promised updates to MK4 users that he promised features in the firmware TWO years ago. Still nothing. He promised dates and features of the XL that never came. He promised the same with INDX in working with Bondtech. They kept delaying, again, and again, and then fucked people (KNOWINGLY) by shipping standard nozzles when hardened nozzles were bought and paid for. They told users they could choose sizes...nope, that was a lie too. Then, of course, as I called out at the very beginning, the volume of the chamber was 40% larger so the chamber would never get to a proper temp for engineering filaments, which whaddayaknow, is coming true now. They also never delivered better than 300C, so you still can't necessarily print a lot of engineering filaments anyway. Is Bambu perfect? No. Of course not. I don't think a Bambu could ever rack 14,000 hours on it. I'd be surprised if it could match the longevity of the Prusa. Do I like that it's a "walled garden?" Not necessarily, but it's overblown. LAN mode is a thing (which, btw, is all the Prusa was ever capable of until they released their own garden). So it still had the same security and functionality of the Prusa, just had added capabilities that Prusa didn't have. Yet it got criticized for it because "China." Yes, it's Chinese. No getting around that. Almost all printers are though. And, to Bambu's credit, they have innovated more than any other company has in the FDM space. They have more firsts than anybody, including Prusa, despite being a relative newcomer. I welcome any innovation in the space, and have to give credit where credit is due. They also operate EXTREMELY fast, and actually listen to their customer base on feature requests. People have BEGGED Prusa for calibration integration into PrusaSlicer like OrcaSlicer. Josef says no. Users asked Bambu to do it for BBS. The very next release, they were there, plus a TON of other features. Bambu updates their firmware with features the customers ask for. They wanted AMS drying while printing. Bambu said sure, give us a month or two. Customers wanted to be able to have one AMS feed both nozzles on the H2D, H2C, and X2D. Bambu said sure, let us develop something and we'll release it ASAP. Customers wanted a way to feed TPU reliably. No issue, we'll design a solution for that. They listen, they innovate, and they deliver what is asked for. The only true complaint I have against them is their stupid security patch fiasco that forces BBS with latest firmware. I, at the same breath, am annoyed with OS developers because Bambu offered an API solution that would have plugged into OS software and made it seamless and OS said to F off. That said, They did allow you to bypass it in LAN only mode, which, meets the needs of the users while meeting the needs of the company. Having unfettered access for any open source software developer to your servers is admittedly a crazy thing to expect. So I can still see why, I just wish there was a cleaner solve. So, there you have it. I'm an open book. I truly am open-minded, and I hope that Prusa implements the changes they are now making quickly, and I hope they continue to actually try to advance the hobby forward instead of simply making a non-Chinese model that is three times the price with half the features, and calling it a day. That isn't ideal for the hobby. The only critique I have of this post is that INDX is being fully developed by Bondtech, and it was Bondtech who made the false promises and failed timelines, not Prusa. Prusas only role in the INDX is providing a factory integration (mounts,firmware,etc) into the Core One family. |
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Originally Posted By Blob: The only critique I have of this post is that INDX is being fully developed by Bondtech, and it was Bondtech who made the false promises and failed timelines, not Prusa. Prusas only role in the INDX is providing a factory integration (mounts,firmware,etc) into the Core One family. Officially INDX is a joint venture between both parties. If one party fucks up, it still reflects negatively on the other party of that JV. No different than if a supplier you decide to get into bed with delivers off-quality parts...it is going to reflect negatively on your brand as they are simply an agent of yours. |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Officially INDX is a joint venture between both parties. If one party fucks up, it still reflects negatively on the other party of that JV. No different than if a supplier you decide to get into bed with delivers off-quality parts...it is going to reflect negatively on your brand as they are simply an agent of yours. Eh, no. INDX is not a Core One specific product. It is available for integration into any machine. The founder's edition gave you a choice between the Core One or Voron, with the stipulation that the user is 100% responsible for integration in the voron. Bondtechs failed promises have literally nothing to do with Prusa. |
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Originally Posted By Blob: Eh, no. INDX is not a Core One specific product. It is available for integration into any machine. The founder's edition gave you a choice between the Core One or Voron, with the stipulation that the user is 100% responsible for integration in the voron. Bondtechs failed promises have literally nothing to do with Prusa. Sorry, should have clarified. That was Josef Prusa's words, not mine. So if you don't agree, take it up with Josef. He said it was a joint venture, co-developed product from the very beginning, and is even legally a joint venture. So not sure what to tell you. You simply are incorrect. If you don't personally hold them liable for it, that's up to you. But it is, as a matter of fact (not opinion), a joint venture. |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Sorry, should have clarified. That was Josef Prusa's words, not mine. So if you don't agree, take it up with Josef. He said it was a joint venture, co-developed product from the very beginning, and is even legally a joint venture. So not sure what to tell you. You simply are incorrect. If you don't personally hold them liable for it, that's up to you. But it is, as a matter of fact (not opinion), a joint venture. Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Sorry, should have clarified. That was Josef Prusa's words, not mine. So if you don't agree, take it up with Josef. He said it was a joint venture, co-developed product from the very beginning, and is even legally a joint venture. So not sure what to tell you. You simply are incorrect. If you don't personally hold them liable for it, that's up to you. But it is, as a matter of fact (not opinion), a joint venture. Gonna need a source on that one, chief. “When I saw what Bondtech was building, I immediately knew it had the potential to change the perspective of multi-material printing on single-head printers,” says Josef Prusa, CEO of Prusa Research. “Together, we made sure the INDX feels native on the CORE One.” https://www.tctmagazine.com/bondtech-and-prusa-research-unveil-multi-material-3d-printing-upgrade/ Sure doesn't sound like it was a joint venture right from the start. |
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Originally Posted By Blob: Gonna need a source on that one, chief. https://www.tctmagazine.com/bondtech-and-prusa-research-unveil-multi-material-3d-printing-upgrade/ Sure doesn't sound like it was a joint venture right from the start. Literally in the article. Chief. Go ahead and read up on JVs too while you're super sluething on the internet in case you arent familiar with how one is defined. I literally do Joint Venture finance for a living as one of my areas of expertise. Even EU-based JVs. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Literally in the article. Chief. Go ahead and read up on JVs too while you're super sluething on the internet in case you arent familiar with how one is defined. I literally do Joint Venture finance for a living as one of my areas of expertise. Even EU-based JVs. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467079/16908_jpg-3811399.JPG And if you read past that sentence Attached File Hardware developed, manufactured, and shipped by Bondtech. Integrated into the Core One by Prusa. Please explain how Prusa is at all involved with Bondtech not delivering on their promises. Is Prusa now responsible for any problems the INDX might have when installed in a Sovol machine? |
LOL, they didn't even add a heated chamber. It's the exact same hardware as before, with the exact same limitations. They are just calling it an "actively heated chamber" because it has a fan that blows air over the heat bed. Still only 60C (which requires bed to be 110C+ to actually reach), no different. And it takes "20 minutes to an hour to reach the full 60C." My H2D hits 65C in 7 minutes.  I take back what I said on Josef maybe pulling his head out of his ass. He hasn't. I guess he finally fixed VFAs, which he has promised since 2022. So there's that I guess. 
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: LOL, they didn't even add a heated chamber. It's the exact same hardware as before, with the exact same limitations. They are just calling it an "actively heated chamber" because it has a fan that blows air over the heat bed. Still only 60C (which requires bed to be 110C+ to actually reach), no different. And it takes "20 minutes to an hour to reach the full 60C." My H2D hits 65C in 7 minutes. I take back what I said on Josef maybe pulling his head out of his ass. He hasn't. I guess he finally fixed VFAs, which he has promised since 2022. So there's that I guess. Wrong again. Unless you're talking about the Core One L which uses the fan. The new enclosure includes an underbed fan to reach 50C, and the upcoming heater will push it to 60C. LMK if you need any more internet sleuthing done. Attached File Attached File |
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All of this is beyond what I care about. I started with an Ender. It went in the trash when I got a MK4 kit. Built it and it worked well, price was high but I liked it. Local store started carrying Bambu. Picked up an X1C with AMS on a whim. Loved that printer, added another AMS and still have it today. Looked into upgrading the MK4 to the Core1. It wasn't worth it to me, cost and time. Picked up a H2D with AMS2 and moved one of the X1C AMS units to it. This is now my go to printer. It just works. I don't give a damn about BBL being able to see my gridfinity prints. If I did, I would take it to LAN mode and block it with my network. The MK4 met the same fate as the Ender. (I rarely sell off old tech items, usually not worth my time, probably made a mistake on this one but, oh well). |
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Originally Posted By Saker13: All of this is beyond what I care about. I started with an Ender. It went in the trash when I got a MK4 kit. Built it and it worked well, price was high but I liked it. Local store started carrying Bambu. Picked up an X1C with AMS on a whim. Loved that printer, added another AMS and still have it today. Looked into upgrading the MK4 to the Core1. It wasn't worth it to me, cost and time. Picked up a H2D with AMS2 and moved one of the X1C AMS units to it. This is now my go to printer. It just works. I don't give a damn about BBL being able to see my gridfinity prints. If I did, I would take it to LAN mode and block it with my network. The MK4 met the same fate as the Ender. (I rarely sell off old tech items, usually not worth my time, probably made a mistake on this one but, oh well). Thanks for weighing in then? My Core Ones and Mk3 just work too. Bambu is not unique in the regard although their user base certainly thinks they are. Big whoop I suppose. Glad to see how quickly the zealots devolved this thread - with incorrect information to boot. I mean JFC these guys are out here updating their product lines continuously over the course of half a decade or more instead of completely abandoning them, which many people (myself included) appreciate, but nah fuck them for trying right? |
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We don't appreciate it because they just keep appending dumbass additions to their printers, charging more than a printer itself for the upgrade, and the name just grows like the fucking LGBTQIA+++ name. I was talking about the Core One L earlier. I should have clarified. But the XL has a separate heater you can buy, that gets you up to 60C, which, big whoop to THAT. So, for $2,400, I can get an XL with a single print head, with zero MMU, zero high temp nozzle, zero enclosure, zero chamber heater, no auto pressure advance, and no filtration. Or, for $2,400, I can have an H2C with seven nozzles, 8 filament-MMU, high temp printing, an enclosure, a proper chamber heater, auto pressure advance, advanced filtration, and still have the ability to print completely unconnected to the internet with zero chance of phoning home. I can also expand it to 24 filaments if I'd like. Even if I fully upgraded the XL, I couldn't achieve that. Closest I can get on an XL is 5 filaments (vs. 24), a 290C (vs. 350C) nozzle, an enclosure, a heater to 60C (vs. 65C), a filter (no advanced control slicer integration yet), all for the small sum of $5,200 + Shipping. And it still isn't even capable of printing at 300C. Just the enclosure alone is more than an entire X2D. That's why nobody gives a shit that the Prusa is "long lifespan" with support. Nobody is paying a grand to upgrade their MK4, they'd throw it in the trash and buy an X2D for less with a hell, and I mean a HELL of a lot more features and capability. It's not feelings. It's just facts. You're not even avoiding China. Prusa sources their bearings, rods, steppers, fans, and power supplies from China. So what do you really get from Prusa? Don't say "Secure printing" as that's available with Bambu. You're getting the ability to say it's not 100% a Chinese company, and for that privilege, you get half the printer for (over) double the cost. Fewer and fewer people are falling for it now. Prusa made a TON of sense in 2021. It was the only real choice, frankly. Times have changed, and Prusa has refused to adapt and refused to leverage scale to get their cost down. The numbers don't lie. Bambu has a 37% market share of new printer sales. Prusa has 6%. They aren't the leader anymore. And they earned every bit of their downfall. |
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Well thank goodness you pounced on this opportunity to sing the praises of Bambu and dump on Prusa in a thread specifically about Prusa and specifically not about Bambu. I mean why should they even bother if they don't do everything up to your standards? It's good to see that your half-priced communist machines have elevated your already sky high superiority complex to where anything less than comparable to the absolute top of the line Bambu model might as well be thrown in the trash because muh cost. For the rest of us, it's nice having competition exist on the free market so that we can choose to buy from other brands for whatever fucking reasons we deem important. |
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Originally Posted By Blob: Well thank goodness you pounced on this opportunity to sing the praises of Bambu and dump on Prusa in a thread specifically about Prusa and specifically not about Bambu. I mean why should they even bother if they don't do everything up to your standards? It's good to see that your half-priced communist machines have elevated your already sky high superiority complex to where anything less than comparable to the absolute top of the line Bambu model might as well be thrown in the trash because muh cost. For the rest of us, it's nice having competition exist on the free market so that we can choose to buy from other brands for whatever fucking reasons we deem important. Its not just my standards. Its nearly everyones standards that they arent meeting, as evidenced by their market share dropping by half in 3 years. At this point they probably should give up as they arent even trying to be competitive at this point. At this point it is just willful ignorance on your part to ignore the reality of the situation, which is ironic as its exactly what Josef is doing, so you guys are perfect for each other. Funny how personal you take it. Resorting to attacking me personally because I literally stated facts. Sad. 
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I don't have any direct experience with Prusa. When I was looking to upgrade from my first printer, I spent a little time researching different brands / features / price and came to the same conclusion that a previous poster made with Prusa.....the cost vs features was a hard sell for me to buy. I've only been in this hobby for ~18 months, so I don't have the historical knowledge & experience as a lot of you guys. From a relative newcomer to the hobby, it seems like Prusa machines probably made more sense to buy before the industry exploded and the machines started to fall more inline with other consumer electronics. In general the consumer electronics market seems to have mostly shifted to, throw away & buy new vs upgrade what you have. A big part of that is due to lower prices on new devices. How many people kept their old printers and upgraded them in the past, partly because there just weren't that many viable options to buy new? Just a thought....it may not be accurate at all. That being said, I hope Prusa is successful and these latest updates are what their customers want. While I own 2 Bambu machines, I'm not a brand loyalist, I want Prusa (and others) to be successful. When I decide it's time to upgrade my H2D, I'd love to have 4-5 different companies to pick from. |
EP429: Today's lesson - Don't provoke ARFCOM. People will see your butthole.
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Originally Posted By Blob: Thanks for weighing in then? My Core Ones and Mk3 just work too. Bambu is not unique in the regard although their user base certainly thinks they are. Big whoop I suppose. Glad to see how quickly the zealots devolved this thread - with incorrect information to boot. I mean JFC these guys are out here updating their product lines continuously over the course of half a decade or more instead of completely abandoning them, which many people (myself included) appreciate, but nah fuck them for trying right? Cheers, enjoy your decisions and I'll enjoy mine. Life is way too short to be arguing about hobbies on the internet. And I really mean this, not being a troll or asshole. |
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Originally Posted By Saker13: Typed out a long reply and deleted it. I'll just hang my head in shame and be the zealot and fanboy. I'm sorry you are so invested in a brand and can't see why some people in this world don't agree. Cheers, enjoy your decisions and I'll enjoy mine. Life is way too short to be arguing about hobbies on the internet. And I really mean this, not being a troll or asshole. Wait until the LightMake L4 comes out. 380mm build volume, linear motors, TWIN IDEX (yes, four complete print heads), and 16 filament capacity. Oh. And its only a grand. 
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Originally Posted By Saker13: Typed out a long reply and deleted it. I'll just hang my head in shame and be the zealot and fanboy. I'm sorry you are so invested in a brand and can't see why some people in this world don't agree. Cheers, enjoy your decisions and I'll enjoy mine. Life is way too short to be arguing about hobbies on the internet. And I really mean this, not being a troll or asshole. Meh, I'm not personally invested in any brand. It's just damned annoying when something that is supposed to be positive gets posted and the usual suspects immediately dogpile and shit all over it because it's not good enough. I agree on the last point which is why you don't see me in the bambu threads shitting on them. |
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Originally Posted By Blob: Meh, I'm not personally invested in any brand. It's just damned annoying when something that is supposed to be positive gets posted and the usual suspects immediately dogpile and shit all over it because it's not good enough. I agree on the last point which is why you don't see me in the bambu threads shitting on them. |
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Originally Posted By Saker13: Agree on all points and I apologize if I came across any other way. And, just want to say thank you for all of the great info you have posted on ARF about printing in general! Originally Posted By Saker13: Originally Posted By Blob: Meh, I'm not personally invested in any brand. It's just damned annoying when something that is supposed to be positive gets posted and the usual suspects immediately dogpile and shit all over it because it's not good enough. I agree on the last point which is why you don't see me in the bambu threads shitting on them. 100% this….even though you guys (blob & obsessed) butt heads sometimes, you’ve both added a huge amount of value to this forum by sharing your knowledge and experience. 
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EP429: Today's lesson - Don't provoke ARFCOM. People will see your butthole.
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Wait until the LightMake L4 comes out. 380mm build volume, linear motors, TWIN IDEX (yes, four complete print heads), and 16 filament capacity. Oh. And its only a grand. Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Originally Posted By Saker13: Typed out a long reply and deleted it. I'll just hang my head in shame and be the zealot and fanboy. I'm sorry you are so invested in a brand and can't see why some people in this world don't agree. Cheers, enjoy your decisions and I'll enjoy mine. Life is way too short to be arguing about hobbies on the internet. And I really mean this, not being a troll or asshole. Wait until the LightMake L4 comes out. 380mm build volume, linear motors, TWIN IDEX (yes, four complete print heads), and 16 filament capacity. Oh. And its only a grand. Tell us more about this brand, I haven't heard much of it but keep seeing a bunch of commercials recently. How does it stack up to bamboo and Prussia? For only a grand kind of sounds pretty awesome. |
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Originally Posted By bmarshall1: Tell us more about this brand, I haven't heard much of it but keep seeing a bunch of commercials recently. How does it stack up to bamboo and Prussia? For only a grand kind of sounds pretty awesome. I get a 404 for their website https://lightmake.tech/ did find this: https://3dprintingcostcalculator.com/news/lightmake-l4-price |
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Originally Posted By bmarshall1: Tell us more about this brand, I haven't heard much of it but keep seeing a bunch of commercials recently. How does it stack up to bamboo and Prussia? For only a grand kind of sounds pretty awesome. They are very new to market, not even sure if they have any products in market yet. They will either be a major player/innovator or will be a fly and die, depending on performance vs expectation/advertising. Sounds even more impressive than Bambu, for even less money. I dont see how they can deliver a machine like that at that price. Might be a play to buy market share and then price up once established via RGM tactics,which is common in virtually every industry. I wouldnt get one super early on. I want to see if its as good as they promise. Bambu isnt perfect, but its hard to beat for value, and naturally being Chinese gives an advantage here even with tarrifs. That said, I cant imagine you can get much better value to the point you can get a dual IDEX, large format, linear rail (and linear motor!), heated enclosure printer for a grand. Sounds too good to be true to me. But I hope Im wrong. Any competition and any innovation is good in my book. |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Wait until the LightMake L4 comes out. 380mm build volume, linear motors, TWIN IDEX (yes, four complete print heads), and 16 filament capacity. Oh. And its only a grand. AND they park all four printheads over the bed edges so no full bed prints with a single print head unless you want to stitch it together with IDEX and good luck with that because unless it uses a camera alignment no way they can get the positioning aligned. Print volume is miss-leading. After dealing with software and VAOC camera system trying to use IDEX on a 500 mm RatRig, I gave up on the idea and just enjoy large single color prints. Someday I might do something like INDX if they get higher temps. Large format printers are not for everyone. I had to invest heavily inot mods to cure problems. Things like bi-metal gantry expansion from using aluminum extrusion with a steel rail. Had to convert most of the printed parts to cnc parts to do high temp prints. Never again. Next printer not tied to China and out of the box plug it in and go. Not playing the new model game again. |
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