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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:28:14 PM EDT
[#1]
I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet?
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:28:54 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:31:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet? You're thinking of the Silent Eagle proposal. Which was a half baked concept that would be a practical impossiblity to build. There has also been talk on this site about an F-15 variant with a set of F-22 engines. It would have required a redesign of the interior of the aircraft. But I'm told the F-15 was well suited to such a conversion. A Super Eagle not unlike a Super Hornet. Looks similar on the outside, inside very different. But apparently that concept never even got far enough for someone to make concept art of it. I'm told it would have had huge... Wings. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:31:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet? I think the canted verticals were an imaginary version they were calling the silent eagle. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:33:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After years of production Boeing has finally released a convertible. Costs a little more but if you want to look stylin’ crusing the strip it’s the only way to go. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is the canopy an upgrade? After years of production Boeing has finally released a convertible. Costs a little more but if you want to look stylin’ crusing the strip it’s the only way to go. If that would have been an option on the F-14 Goose would still be with us. 
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:49:30 PM EDT
[#6]
I read an article that stated the USAF only expects these to be effective against peer adversaries until 2028; I wonder what happens in 2028? The S-500 is already operational so probably not that, unless it wasn't expected to be fielded until 2028.
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:52:35 PM EDT
[#7]
The Globoboeing F-15 is nothing but a monument to dollar-tree levels of value engineering. The only thing BSTL is experienced at is billion dollar levels of contractual malfeasance, harbor freight quality of holding tolerances, and being able use legal shielding from any ramifications.
The EX's "vaunted" improved EW systems are already obsolete and never worked to begin with. Only the truly braindead social justice leaders in the AF would buy a plane that is built to such a shitty quality that even Arab FMS customers complain. The AFs motto should be Billions for nostalgia, not a cent for defense. At least they still use ACES II...they're gonna need it when the AF starts fielding newly delivered EX's with a few hundred open nonconformances and manufacturing errors. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:54:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just know the dude in the cockpit made pew pew noises.. if you don't your life isn't fun wonder if the Hud works so you can pretend your lining up a shot? |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:57:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the canopy an upgrade? could be sooper secret copy of ufo tech. don't want Chyna getting their commie paws on itso it's kept in the luggage compartment |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 4:01:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Ah yes... much like my college dates.. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 4:06:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just know the dude in the cockpit made pew pew noises.. And you wouldn’t? |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 4:57:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Globoboeing F-15 is nothing but a monument to dollar-tree levels of value engineering. The only thing BSTL is experienced at is billion dollar levels of contractual malfeasance, harbor freight quality of holding tolerances, and being able use legal shielding from any ramifications. The EX's "vaunted" improved EW systems are already obsolete and never worked to begin with. Only the truly braindead social justice leaders in the AF would buy a plane that is built to such a shitty quality that even Arab FMS customers complain. The AFs motto should be Billions for nostalgia, not a cent for defense. At least they still use ACES II...they're gonna need it when the AF starts fielding newly delivered EX's with a few hundred open nonconformances and manufacturing errors. Golf clap. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 5:16:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It aint the same Boeing anymore, or maybe it is. They screwed me, that F-15X contract was announced many years ago then they had the 737 max disaster. They're a failed enterprise, thanks for reminding me I need to divest myself and just take the loss. American air superiority is failing. I wonder how much DEI they got in the company now. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 5:27:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how much DEI they got in the company now. I can tell you with confidence that at least one of thier vendors is full speed ahead with DEI. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 5:35:46 PM EDT
[#15]
“He’s right you know”
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Posted: 8/25/2023 6:19:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? We need airframes and they can't build F-35s fast enough. Sometimes you need something to haul a lot of ordnance to a target and a LO aircraft can't do that. You'd use the stealth aircraft to punch a hole in defenses and provide air cover while these guys roll in behind them to drop on the target That and the ANG needs birds for the NORAD mission. Their current fleet of F-15C/D and F-16s are getting worn out. Although why we’re not buying new Vipers for the ANG is beyond me. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 7:13:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet? Paging @AeroEngineer. @AeroEngineer to the white courtesy phone. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 7:51:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KA3B  :Paging @AeroEngineer. @AeroEngineer to the white courtesy phone. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KA3B :Quoted: I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet? Paging @AeroEngineer. @AeroEngineer to the white courtesy phone. I just work with stuff that goes into space
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:06:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read an article that stated the USAF only expects these to be effective against peer adversaries until 2028; I wonder what happens in 2028? The S-500 is already operational so probably not that, unless it wasn't expected to be fielded until 2028. Nothing more sinister than the Air Force wants to keep funding coming. Nothing is going to happen in 2028. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:08:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet? That was never a serious option for production, but the static model made for some interesting photos. There is not enough "vertical cant" in the world to make up for the enormous high-observable square intakes that look directly down at the fan blades of the Eagle, as well as the dozen of other non-stealthy design features on the airframe.  |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:09:33 PM EDT
[#21]
 this musta been some kinda paper mache' mockup... I read a bit about the concept and apparently it's meant to introduce more of a frontal stealth capability like that chinese fighter, and was for export to allies.. what I read said the stealthy features helped against ground radar not at all.. beaten!
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:09:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Highly relevant post to the actual delay posted about in the OP.
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Globoboeing F-15 is nothing but a monument to dollar-tree levels of value engineering. The only thing BSTL is experienced at is billion dollar levels of contractual malfeasance, harbor freight quality of holding tolerances, and being able use legal shielding from any ramifications. The EX's "vaunted" improved EW systems are already obsolete and never worked to begin with. Only the truly braindead social justice leaders in the AF would buy a plane that is built to such a shitty quality that even Arab FMS customers complain. The AFs motto should be Billions for nostalgia, not a cent for defense. At least they still use ACES II...they're gonna need it when the AF starts fielding newly delivered EX's with a few hundred open nonconformances and manufacturing errors. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:34:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's primer. Parts of the F-15 are made by Boeing in St. Louis and parts are made by Northrop Grumman in California. The dark green primer is used by Boeing, it's an epoxy primer, the yellow is used by NG, it's an epoxy primer that uses water as a thinning agent. The initial coating of primer is there to protect the the aircraft surfaces during manufacturing, it's removed prior to the final paint stack being applied. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why does it look like a soviet paint scheme? It's primer. Parts of the F-15 are made by Boeing in St. Louis and parts are made by Northrop Grumman in California. The dark green primer is used by Boeing, it's an epoxy primer, the yellow is used by NG, it's an epoxy primer that uses water as a thinning agent. The initial coating of primer is there to protect the the aircraft surfaces during manufacturing, it's removed prior to the final paint stack being applied. Before the buyout St. Louis got smarter and stopped painting airplanes in before production flight test, and then repainting before government acceptance. The USAF wouldn't sign off on new airplanes with slightly dirty paint. There are dozens of vendors building parts for the airplane. I have never noticed an F-15 part made by NG, but anything is possible, the vendor list changes constantly, and parts may come from different manufacturers. No one cares about the primer color if it meets the call-out on the drawing. I'd be surprised if there is a drop of primer or top coat now that is not from a water carrier. That is certainly the goal. The most up to date requirement might live on an engineering order and not the drawing notes up top in the stack of parts and effectivity . |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:35:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sweet. Bout time they came out with a convertible model. 
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:41:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the X version was the one that was kinda stealthy with canted vertical tail like the Hornet? The F-15X has been shown in two or three configurations now. The version I worked around 1990 was an airplane to match either ATF demonstrator except for observables. We should have built the 350 or so that were priced and proposed to serve as an interim airplane until ATF was ready. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:46:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Two seat…..gross
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:51:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two seat…..gross My personal dream is to harp at you from the back seat! |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:53:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It aint the same Boeing anymore, or maybe it is. They screwed me, that F-15X contract was announced many years ago then they had the 737 max disaster. They're a failed enterprise, thanks for reminding me I need to divest myself and just take the loss. American air superiority is failing. I can prove that with a walk through air worthiness directives and the crappy engineering that caused them. The airplanes worked, but they are not masterpieces of the art and science, and the number of people killed per flight hour is acceptable. To be fair, sometimes the fault for sorry work belongs to a vendor. Such as the double drilled holes in the aft bulkhead of 737 max airplanes in work now. But ultimately Boeing has to accept fault for "failure to monitor". Whether it wants to accept that responsibility or not. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:54:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My personal dream is to harp at you from the back seat! Haha, maybe the left seat. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:02:17 PM EDT
[#30]
GD: Fuck F35 it's a disaster rape by LockMart to rape us through the military industrial complex. They are literally robbing us. What we need are Super Tacanos to bomb mud huts.
Also GD: Fuck Boeing why are we giving these faggots money for upgraded 1970s technology, F15 should just die already. The Mighty WingWong would destroy it in a second and Vodka21 can out dogfight it |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:14:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Globoboeing F-15 is nothing but a monument to dollar-tree levels of value engineering. The only thing BSTL is experienced at is billion dollar levels of contractual malfeasance, harbor freight quality of holding tolerances, and being able use legal shielding from any ramifications. The EX's "vaunted" improved EW systems are already obsolete and never worked to begin with. Only the truly braindead social justice leaders in the AF would buy a plane that is built to such a shitty quality that even Arab FMS customers complain. The AFs motto should be Billions for nostalgia, not a cent for defense. At least they still use ACES II...they're gonna need it when the AF starts fielding newly delivered EX's with a few hundred open nonconformances and manufacturing errors. This is, unfortunately, very true. The F-15MAX was about buying down risk - the way to do that was using an engine from the 80s and a current production radar. Unfortunately, the contract actually elevates risk substantially for the AF. The F-15E, like many other great fighters before it, has served its time well. EPAWSS has had ungodly amounts of money pumped into it for a very long time and promised capes are unrealistic in this decade. If the EX was <$40mil a copy, you could maybe justify it to the Guard or something. At its current price, oh by the way, that's not even the later lot price, it's not any type of a value. The only justification is long range stand-off weapons, but thats's another story. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:16:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two seat…..gross Backseat is for your luggage and catering...not really seeing a problem. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:23:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD: Fuck F35 it's a disaster rape by LockMart to rape us through the military industrial complex. They are literally robbing us. What we need are Super Tacanos to bomb mud huts. Also GD: Fuck Boeing why are we giving these faggots money for upgraded 1970s technology, F15 should just die already. The Mighty WingWong would destroy it in a second and Vodka21 can out dogfight it Well, you know. Taxation is theft and there's nothing that a modern fighter aircraft can do to defend this country as well as sitting behind 2 oceans and a few dozen nuclear armed ICBMs. Its not like we will ever see peer air combat in any of our lifetimes. Its going to be missile duels and bombing people. Buying fighters is just corporate welfare when a C-130 loaded with water heaters and oil drums filled with the cheapest explosives you can find and chunks of scrap metal will do just as good for a fraction of the price. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:25:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is, unfortunately, very true. The F-15MAX was about buying down risk - the way to do that was using an engine from the 80s and a current production radar. Unfortunately, the contract actually elevates risk substantially for the AF. The F-15E, like many other great fighters before it, has served its time well. EPAWSS has had ungodly amounts of money pumped into it for a very long time and promised capes are unrealistic in this decade. If the EX was <$40mil a copy, you could maybe justify it to the Guard or something. At its current price, oh by the way, that's not even the later lot price, it's not any type of a value. The only justification is long range stand-off weapons, but thats's another story. Username and location have me paying attention. I thought EPAWSS was a mature system sharing a lot of ASQ-239 DNA, I guess we got sold another bill of goods. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:26:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Username and location have me paying attention. I thought EPAWSS was a mature system sharing a lot of ASQ-239 DNA, I guess we got sold another bill of goods. I can vouch that he knows what's up. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha, maybe the left seat. [grabbing a stolen USAToday] "I'm going to poop, with the door open...turn the speaker up too...I'm keeping my eye on you..." |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [grabbing a stolen USAToday] "I'm going to poop, with the door open...turn the speaker up too...I'm keeping my eye on you..." Welcome to the 767F. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 1:04:08 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: F-15 RCS 25 ( m2 ) F-35 RCS .005 ( m2 ) F-22 RCS. .0001 ( m2 ) Bird RCS. .01. ( ?? ) radar is not the only sensor out there. how much thermal energy does a bird put out vs a an f22 with two monster engines. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 8:27:37 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 8/26/2023 8:39:12 AM EDT
[#40]
I absolutely LOVE your DOD threads. I get to learn, I get to read acronyms I can't figure out, I get to read your replies. You friend, are an arfcom treasure. Please keep them coming for a l o n g time. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 12:24:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryIt does. C models are older than dirt, mainly ANG playthings that are single role. The majority of the E model fleet is getting up there age wise and theyve been flogged pretty hard. The USAF has criminally let its long range strike fighter inventory atrophie. Instead of developing a true modern E model replacement they have put lipstick on a Mudhen and are calling it modern. The AF priorities for the past 15 years have been in short range stealth platforms, new tankers (another globoboeing product that doesnt work and is an acquisition boondoggle), and now theres the Raider which is a decade+ late and a dollar short. Oh, lets not forget we need to buy lots of Tuskeegehawk trainers so we can keep the flying club ranks strong. Meanwhile, to pay for all this stuff the "leadership" has effectively been putting the rest of the AF in hock with a title loan shop. Theyve broken the 15s and 16s, dont care about Cargo (CRAF will save us!), and frankly they care more about LGBTBBQ wokeness than the rest of the AF not listed above. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 12:40:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It does. C models are older than dirt, mainly ANG playthings that are single role. The majority of the E model fleet is getting up there age wise and theyve been flogged pretty hard. The USAF has criminally let its long range strike fighter inventory atrophie. Instead of developing a true modern E model replacement they have put lipstick on a Mudhen and are calling it modern. The AF priorities for the past 15 years have been in short range stealth platforms, new tankers (another globoboeing product that doesnt work and is an acquisition boondoggle), and now theres the Raider which is a decade+ late and a dollar short. Oh, lets not forget we need to buy lots of Tuskeegehawk trainers so we can keep the flying club ranks strong. Meanwhile, to pay for all this stuff the "leadership" has effectively been putting the rest of the AF in hock with a title loan shop. Theyve broken the 15s and 16s, dont care about Cargo (CRAF will save us!), and frankly they care more about LGBTBBQ wokeness than the rest of the AF not listed above. I'm just a civilian but I've noticed this too. Frankly I think it's going to take nothing less than a city being wiped out to get these issues seriously addressed. Corruption has woven its way into the fabric of our existence. Its always there but it's getting to the point where the parasite is killing the host. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 12:48:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm just a civilian but I've noticed this too. Frankly I think it's going to take nothing less than a city being wiped out to get these issues seriously addressed. Corruption has woven its way into the fabric of our existence. Its always there but it's getting to the point where the parasite is killing the host. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It does. C models are older than dirt, mainly ANG playthings that are single role. The majority of the E model fleet is getting up there age wise and theyve been flogged pretty hard. The USAF has criminally let its long range strike fighter inventory atrophie. Instead of developing a true modern E model replacement they have put lipstick on a Mudhen and are calling it modern. The AF priorities for the past 15 years have been in short range stealth platforms, new tankers (another globoboeing product that doesnt work and is an acquisition boondoggle), and now theres the Raider which is a decade+ late and a dollar short. Oh, lets not forget we need to buy lots of Tuskeegehawk trainers so we can keep the flying club ranks strong. Meanwhile, to pay for all this stuff the "leadership" has effectively been putting the rest of the AF in hock with a title loan shop. Theyve broken the 15s and 16s, dont care about Cargo (CRAF will save us!), and frankly they care more about LGBTBBQ wokeness than the rest of the AF not listed above. I'm just a civilian but I've noticed this too. Frankly I think it's going to take nothing less than a city being wiped out to get these issues seriously addressed. Corruption has woven its way into the fabric of our existence. Its always there but it's getting to the point where the parasite is killing the host. They damn near flew the wings off the mudhens and Bones. The woke bullshit is a different thing, but it seems like the lack of development of new platforms was a result of the focus on bombing mud huts. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 1:05:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryHead on kinda looks like an X Wing |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 1:50:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it's a valid point but isn't it a response to 20 years of GWOT? There wasn't a lot of ADA to be penetrated, we parked Buffs and Bones on station with big magazines just waiting for a target. Anything closer than a JDAM was appropriate for we had the A10 or F16 or F15E. None of that is survivable in a contested environment, but that's not what we were doing. They damn near flew the wings off the mudhens and Bones. The woke bullshit is a different thing, but it seems like the lack of development of new platforms was a result of the focus on bombing mud huts. I have an image in my minds eye of where things were expected to go after the Cold War ended. No one would ever challenge us ever again and the resources that went into the war on terror was supposed to have gone into a full buy of F-22s and F-35s. Instead we got the war on terror and all the issues you have listed here. It’s just absurdity piled upon absurdity at this point and again I don’t see a way through that doesn’t involve a lot of pain. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:24:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an image in my minds eye of where things were expected to go after the Cold War ended. No one would ever challenge us ever again and the resources that went into the war on terror was supposed to have gone into a full buy of F-22s and F-35s. Instead we got the war on terror and all the issues you have listed here. It's just absurdity piled upon absurdity at this point and again I don't see a way through that doesn't involve a lot of pain. The woke BS is an active measure to weaken our military and it should be treated as such. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:33:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Wasn’t there a member here that was directly involved with the procurement and acceptance of the F15EX who said those things were huge POSs riddled with manufacturing and QA issues?
ETA- disregard, he’s in the thread already. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:47:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Golf clap. The scary part of his post is that we just learned in GD that dollar stores don’t take returns. |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 2:56:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn’t there a member here that was directly involved with the procurement and acceptance of the F15EX who said those things were huge POSs riddled with manufacturing and QA issues? ETA- disregard, he’s in the thread already. Yes I'm here... |
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Posted: 8/26/2023 3:13:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes I'm here... Well, tell me that the true mission of the US military (producing retired generals) was at least measurably advanced by this program. I like to be assured that my tax money is well spent. |
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