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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:02:02 PM EDT
[#1]
If you are a paying member you can listen to the call in the archives. Incident is at 10:25am est
https://m.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/34119 |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:02:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like a jackhammer with a round tip that's strapped around your torso. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is a Lucas device a "geezer squeezer"? More like a jackhammer with a round tip that's strapped around your torso. Huh. Had a heart attack a while back and had to be resuscitated. When I finally got back home, there was a big unexplained bruise in the center of my chest... wonder if they used one of those. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:04:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Edited
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:06:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Trust but verify" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree 100%. I almost witnessed an LE instructor shoot himself because he trusted another instructor that the pistol he was being handed was empty. Proper procedure is for the slide locked to the rear and no magazine inserted, hand covering the trigger gaurd and exposed chamber facing the person recieving the weapon. I stopped him and cleared the pistol as a round came flying out of the chamber. They both just stood there in shock. "Trust but verify" When I was teaching my son to shoot as a kid, I always told him to not trust anyone, including me. I said if I check the chamber while he's standing there, he should check it again anyway. If I hand him an obviously locked-open gun with no mag, he'll still check the chamber. He's taught his kids that way. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:09:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh. Had a heart attack a while back and had to be resuscitated. When I finally got back home, there was a big unexplained bruise in the center of my chest... wonder if they used one of those. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is a Lucas device a "geezer squeezer"? More like a jackhammer with a round tip that's strapped around your torso. Huh. Had a heart attack a while back and had to be resuscitated. When I finally got back home, there was a big unexplained bruise in the center of my chest... wonder if they used one of those. If your sternum wasn't smashed to pieces, I'm going to guess no. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:19:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Approximately 15 or so years ago, a Sailor, accidentally shot himself in the chest while participating in the Navy Handgun Qualification Course (NHQC) at his command. This accident precipitated a change in the course of fire and how the M9 was handled at the 3 & 7-yard line during the weak hand shooting portion of the qualification.
The instruction prior the accident had you fire the remaining 4 rounds in the magazine (from a previously loaded 6 round magazine) in 8 seconds. The first 2 rounds are fired from the strong hand supported position and then the shooter transferred the pistol from the strong hand supported position to the weak hand UNSUPPORTED position. In the transition from the strong hand supported position to the weak hand unsupported position, sailors would receive previous instruction to: #1 - Remove your finger from the trigger #2 - While keeping the weapon pointed downrange, carefully transfer control of the weapon from the strong hand to the weak hand #3 - Present the weapon down range using ONLY your weak hand with NO SUPPORT from your strong hand #4 - Place your strong hand at your side or you may place it on your chest After making the transition, the Sailor would then fire the remaining 2 rounds. All of this happens in less than 8 seconds. As you can already guess, the accident that ended up ending the E6's life happened during this transition. In an attempt to switch his M9 from his strong to his weak hand he fumbled the weapon and, in an attempt, to regain control he somehow manipulated the weapon in such a manner that it ended up pointed back at himself with his finger caught-up in the trigger guard and that was it. OPNAVISNT 3591.1 was rewritten shortly after this accident and removed the weak hand unsupported portion. The new instruction kept the same round count and time requirement (8 seconds) but modified the course of fire by having the shooter fire 2 rounds and then, while the weapon is kept safely pointed downrange, transition to the weak hand SUPPORTED position to fire the remaining 2 rounds. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:20:38 PM EDT
[#7]
How the fuck do you shoot yourself accidentally in the chest?
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:22:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Unfortunately the officer was DOA at the ER. CPR works for people with intact circulatory systems aka hearts beating out of sequence. For trauma victims with holes in the heart or major arteries, CPR is not indicated medically. It is sometimes done out of respect for family or friends in situations like the above.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:25:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn hope he is ok. Prayers. I'm curious to why the muzzle was pointed at his chest. Article says he’s dead. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:26:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe a holster mishap. Something like a shoulder rig is impossible to draw from without flagging yourself or someone else. No it's not, especially with a vertical carry holster. It definitely takes more practice though. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:29:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Officer is a 45.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:32:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Was he doing this and messed up? 6:!8
 Series 2 reaction hand draw OWB |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:40:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe he dropped it and it went off hitting him in the chest? Not saying that's impossible (in fact my stepfather died in 1970 when the old revolver he was waving around slipped out of his hand, hit the floor, dropped the hammer, and shot him in the head) but modern handguns have very good safety mechanisms - usually more than one - that make it extremely hard to drop the hammer on a loaded chamber without actually pulling the trigger. I confess I haven't read the article yet, so I don't know what kind of gun had the ND. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:41:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe he dropped it and it went off hitting him in the chest? It’s still pretty hard to imagine a way to drop a rifle where it ends up pointed at your own chest. ETA: not sure why I was thinking it was a rifle. Disregard. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:48:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He’s not ok. He has a Lucas device doing CPR, and is intubated. Hate to sound like a Richard, but he gone. Why did he point a loaded gun at his chest?? this x87. Traumatic Cardiac Arrest Survivability = < 3% |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:50:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your sternum wasn't smashed to pieces, I'm going to guess no. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is a Lucas device a "geezer squeezer"? More like a jackhammer with a round tip that's strapped around your torso. Huh. Had a heart attack a while back and had to be resuscitated. When I finally got back home, there was a big unexplained bruise in the center of my chest... wonder if they used one of those. If your sternum wasn't smashed to pieces, I'm going to guess no. Huh? You're saying the Lucas device smashes people's chest to pieces? |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Instructor 0.0 was his name.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:56:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? You're saying the Lucas device smashes people's chest to pieces? it can. on frail people it definitely can. look up videos of it. i’ve cracked ribs doing cpr on a old frail lady. could hear & feel it as i was thumping on her chest....not pleasant sound but i did get end tidal at least 
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:57:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? You're saying the Lucas device smashes people's chest to pieces? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is a Lucas device a "geezer squeezer"? More like a jackhammer with a round tip that's strapped around your torso. Huh. Had a heart attack a while back and had to be resuscitated. When I finally got back home, there was a big unexplained bruise in the center of my chest... wonder if they used one of those. If your sternum wasn't smashed to pieces, I'm going to guess no. Huh? You're saying the Lucas device smashes people's chest to pieces? Even hand compressions can break ribs in fact it’s very common. Those things give a beating and can crack ribs |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 1:59:35 PM EDT
[#20]
That's a lesson, of a sort.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:00:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you accidentally shoot yourself in the chest?  Knew something about Hildawg? |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:01:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Accidentally" Suicide. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:03:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The molester teacher looks like Will Smith. Chris Rock should slap him. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:06:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Obviously the fault of the range, the Feds, the ammo maker and the gun maker.
I enjoy going to the range less and less. I trust my life less and less to some of the people who go there, and I probably don't see 90% of the things that would keep me awake at night. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:22:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it can. on frail people it definitely can. look up videos of it. i’ve cracked ribs doing cpr on a old frail lady. could hear & feel it as i was thumping on her chest....not pleasant sound but i did get end tidal at least Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Huh? You're saying the Lucas device smashes people's chest to pieces? it can. on frail people it definitely can. look up videos of it. i’ve cracked ribs doing cpr on a old frail lady. could hear & feel it as i was thumping on her chest....not pleasant sound but i did get end tidal at least  Wasn't expected to pull through at all, actually. Aside from the bruising, I still had some severe chest wall pain for a couple of weeks after being discharged. Docs suspected broken ribs from CPR, but xrays came back clean. CPR could have caused the bruise too, but it seemed more "focused" than that, if that makes any sense. There really weren't a lot of details from the first responder reports about exactly what took place between the time I was found pulled off the road and when I was admitted to the ICU; at least in the paperwork I have access too. Not losing any sleep over the mystery though. Thanks for your explanation! Sorry for derail, OP. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was teaching my son to shoot as a kid, I always told him to not trust anyone, including me. I said if I check the chamber while he's standing there, he should check it again anyway. If I hand him an obviously locked-open gun with no mag, he'll still check the chamber. He's taught his kids that way. This is what my dads taught me and I have taught my daughter and step sons. I've also instilled in them, when they have a malfunction, jam, fail to fire/eject, whatever, just lay it on the table, still pointed down range, DO NOT walk in front of the muzzle or let it get pointed anywhere but down range until cleared. Then get my attention, come get me or call me IF not there. Now they are in their 20s and old enough to clear their own. Funny thing is, they'll often still refer to me if I'm around. Thankfully, it rarely happens. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Current article title doesn't match original.
Now it says, "Customs and Border Protection officer dead after shooting incident." Nowhere in the article doesn't it mention anything about the gunshot being self-inflicted. I wonder if they were running an active drill and another officer fucked up. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:28:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Current article title doesn't match original. Now it says, "Customs and Border Protection officer dead after shooting incident." Nowhere in the article doesn't it mention anything about the gunshot being self-inflicted. I wonder if they were running an active drill and another officer fucked up. But anything is possible. A couple of LE die every year from training accidents at ranges. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:58:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Story is two CBP firearms instructors conducting a demonstration and one shot the other in the chest.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:13:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Well I was going to say at least he wasn't using it at as an arm rest.
However, this man has unfortunately died. So this is worse than that.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:14:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Maybe he fumbled/dropped the weapon and it discharged afterward when desperately grasping it?
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:18:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you accidentally shoot yourself in the chest? If you’re a friend or business partner of the Clintons it seems to be a fairly common event. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:21:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Story is two CBP firearms instructors conducting a demonstration and one shot the other in the chest.  Newest Best Gun Disarm by Victor Marx, Filmed on Life Today show. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:51:26 PM EDT
[#34]
  Customs officer dies after he is accidentally shot twice in the chest during training demonstration at Miami gun range. Story says twice in the chest? More |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:53:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Story is two CBP firearms instructors conducting a demonstration and one shot the other in the chest.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S64-CT0Dc_YI don’t know specifics, but likely not. What I do know about the side of the range they were using is that remedial qualification is held there for some fuckups that can’t qual with the larger group. Larger meaning about 25-30 on main range. That smaller area could of had maybe only 1-4 officers plus at least 2 instructors. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:58:47 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:59:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/19/20/63647607-11333481-image-m-51_1666208227359.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/19/20/63647573-11333481-image-m-55_1666208339759.jpg Customs officer dies after he is accidentally shot twice in the chest during training demonstration at Miami gun range. Story says twice in the chest? More Body armor drill- 2 to the chest; 1 to the head. Except he never got to the head?? |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:59:51 PM EDT
[#38]
MS Gaming Comission had a similar incident a few years ago when an instructor brought a live gun to a training session and shot another officer during a drill. Blue guns are cheap and there is no excuse for an agency not having them.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 3:59:56 PM EDT
[#39]
RIP.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:11:48 PM EDT
[#40]
My inside sources tell me it was a FoF training. Someone had live rounds. They were demonstrating draw and fire. Officer was dead before fire rescue arrived.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:15:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My inside sources tell me it was a FoF training. Someone had live rounds. They were demonstrating draw and fire. Officer was dead before fire rescue arrived. So using live guns and not wearing armor. Hopefully his family sues the everliving shit out of whatever genius put that training session together. I've been to private training classes with significantly better safety clearing with two people minimum checking other people and their gear for live guns or ammo. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:18:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Approximately 15 or so years ago, a Sailor, accidentally shot himself in the chest while participating in the Navy Handgun Qualification Course (NHQC) at his command. This accident precipitated a change in the course of fire and how the M9 was handled at the 3 & 7-yard line during the weak hand shooting portion of the qualification. The instruction prior the accident had you fire the remaining 4 rounds in the magazine (from a previously loaded 6 round magazine) in 8 seconds. The first 2 rounds are fired from the strong hand supported position and then the shooter transferred the pistol from the strong hand supported position to the weak hand UNSUPPORTED position. In the transition from the strong hand supported position to the weak hand unsupported position, sailors would receive previous instruction to: #1 - Remove your finger from the trigger #2 - While keeping the weapon pointed downrange, carefully transfer control of the weapon from the strong hand to the weak hand #3 - Present the weapon down range using ONLY your weak hand with NO SUPPORT from your strong hand #4 - Place your strong hand at your side or you may place it on your chest After making the transition, the Sailor would then fire the remaining 2 rounds. All of this happens in less than 8 seconds. As you can already guess, the accident that ended up ending the E6's life happened during this transition. In an attempt to switch his M9 from his strong to his weak hand he fumbled the weapon and, in an attempt, to regain control he somehow manipulated the weapon in such a manner that it ended up pointed back at himself with his finger caught-up in the trigger guard and that was it. OPNAVISNT 3591.1 was rewritten shortly after this accident and removed the weak hand unsupported portion. The new instruction kept the same round count and time requirement (8 seconds) but modified the course of fire by having the shooter fire 2 rounds and then, while the weapon is kept safely pointed downrange, transition to the weak hand SUPPORTED position to fire the remaining 2 rounds. #1 should rather be: "Remove your finger from the trigger and place it outside the trigger guard until you are on target and ready to fire." |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:24:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Story is two CBP firearms instructors conducting a demonstration and one shot the other in the chest. Damn. PA state police had something similar back in 2014 when a PSP firearms instructor shot a trooper in the chest while doing firearms training. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:25:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Wonder if he was trying to demonstrate the muzzle pressure taking the gun out of battery deal.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:27:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe a holster mishap. Something like a shoulder rig is impossible to draw from without flagging yourself or someone else. Hadn’t thought of that. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:30:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen people doing that trying to lock the slide back and clear the gun. Boggles my mind! Yeah Plenty of videos of this and clearing malfunctions that ended badly. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:32:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe a holster mishap. Something like a shoulder rig is impossible to draw from without flagging yourself or someone else. You may flag your arm if you're not careful, but even with a shoulder holster there's no way to flag your chest unless you're doing something really, really wrong. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:33:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is a Lucas device a "geezer squeezer"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He's not ok. He has a Lucas device doing CPR, and is intubated. Hate to sound like a Richard, but he gone. Why did he point a loaded gun at his chest?? That was the auto-pulse. The Lucas is usually referred to as the thumper. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:35:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, to paraphrase Marsellus Wallace, he's pretty fuckin' far from OK. There is a chance, but it's a bloody small one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He’s not ok. He has a Lucas device doing CPR, and is intubated. Hate to sound like a Richard, but he gone. Why did he point a loaded gun at his chest?? Yeah, to paraphrase Marsellus Wallace, he's pretty fuckin' far from OK. There is a chance, but it's a bloody small one. There really isn’t a chance. Trauma codes that are on an OR table rarely live. In the Field? Trauma arrests don’t make it unless the crew was missing that they are actually in a low flow state. |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:37:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really, just does high quality compressions for longer than the average person can do. Nothing inherently worse for the patient by being on a Lucas, actually may benefit them more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is a Lucas device a "geezer squeezer"? Not really, just does high quality compressions for longer than the average person can do. Nothing inherently worse for the patient by being on a Lucas, actually may benefit them more. He is referring to the autopulse which has a circumferential band around the chest. Squeezes. The Lucas is a post on a frame. A suction cup on the chest allows legit recoil and it is very effective. Human beings doing Manual compressions are often at the wrong speed and get tired. |
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