Counterfeit-branded real gold bars - Fake-branded bars slip dirty gold into world markets - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Counterfeit-branded real gold bars - Fake-branded bars slip dirty gold into world markets (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 8/28/2019 12:45:57 PM EDT

[#1]

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If the gold can be fingerprinted, the the entity producing fake marks can also add the impurities in the right amounts to fake the finger printing.

This isn't rocket science

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Concur.

Posted: 8/28/2019 12:45:57 PM EDT

[#2]

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A lot of the gold being refined were old bars from London. They were being recasted from 400 oz (Western standard) to 1 kilo (Chinese standard) bars. That's how we know there's hardly any stuff left as the East continues to drain the West of its gold. Both China and Russia are secretive about what they hold and we know that they both have more than they claim. Want to know what tiny country has 60% gold backing for their currency?

Kazakistan is stacking as fast as they can. The US should have been since it's a major player in price suppression, but we have superior central banking and fiat!

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B...B...But...THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR!

Posted: 8/28/2019 12:56:21 PM EDT

[#3]

Gold, itself, is kind of a scam. It's a shiny yellow metal with no intrinsic value except in a few industrial uses and shiny jewelry. It's heavy and awkward to transport, it has to be assayed to make sure it's "pure", it is impossible to exchange for goods and services in small amounts.

Yes, I have some as a hedge, but only because I think (read: hope) there will be some sucker who will accept it for something I want/need.

"Dirty" gold LOL. If you knew the conditions under which most of the world's gold was mined, it would nearly all be "dirty".

Posted: 8/28/2019 12:59:45 PM EDT

[#4]

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real gold with fake markings? dont care... fake gold / gold plated steel bars? yeah, now we have a problem.

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As long as it isn't stamped "Edsel" I could care less about the gold bars someone gives me.

Posted: 8/28/2019 1:06:17 PM EDT

[#5]

I would pay more for blood gold!

Posted: 8/28/2019 1:10:20 PM EDT

[#6]

While these bars are real gold, but from another source, there are these things floating around with tungsten bars in them.
Buyer Beware

Posted: 8/28/2019 1:12:57 PM EDT

[#7]

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Just rewind back to WW2 when Germany looted the national treasuries of the nations it conquered. The gold they looted with through their refineries and received the German national mark. After the war we were still able to determine what gold belonged to what country and repatriate it.

What you call "impossible" is actually 1940's era tech.

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It isn't true. Once the gold has been turned into a bar it has already gone through the refining process. During the refining process the refinery throws a bunch of gold together, removes impurities down to 99.90-99.99% purity, then makes it into usable product. That product may be wire, sheet, flat stock, coins, grain, bars, or whatever a customer will buy. The gold from a mine might be mixed in with a bunch of gold from a pawn shop and a dentist's office, or anywhere else during refining. Determining origin from the little bit of trace element after refining would be impossible.

Just rewind back to WW2 when Germany looted the national treasuries of the nations it conquered. The gold they looted with through their refineries and received the German national mark. After the war we were still able to determine what gold belonged to what country and repatriate it.

What you call "impossible" is actually 1940's era tech.

Wasn't that from ze Germans keeping meticulous records on what they stole from who plus the gold reserves of the looted country being a known entity?

Posted: 8/28/2019 1:22:32 PM EDT

[#8]

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Like blood diamonds, I would want to purchase & give blood diamonds I think the whole maybe some guy in the Congo got his arm chopped off for it back story is cooler than the billions of years of heat & extreme pressure alone is responsible for this diamond.

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That's my logic. I wanted my wife to know that someone died for her rock.

Posted: 8/28/2019 1:24:07 PM EDT

[#9]

Setting up the narrative to confiscate “counterfeit” gold during the changeover to a new currency system. You know because drug dealers and stuff.

Posted: 8/28/2019 1:39:37 PM EDT

[#10]

A quick comparison of Au with W on the periodic table, along with a 6th grade understanding of electroplating, reveals the insidiousness of this problem. Which is NOT a new problem. Knows your sources or takes your chances.

Posted: 8/28/2019 2:06:52 PM EDT

[#11]

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Muh blood diamonds!

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So the gold is "fake" because it was mined in a third world shithole with terrible working conditions and they forged an SJW approved "legitimate refinery" stamp?

LOL who cares? Still gold.

Muh blood diamonds!

When I bought my wife an "upgrade" wedding ring, I asked for "certified blood diamonds"

Sales woman's face

Manager's face

Posted: 8/28/2019 2:25:14 PM EDT

[#12]

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Go back and read what I wrote. Gold isn't refined from one source anymore. Most of the gold in existence today is refined from gold that has been in circulation for a long time. I'll stick with my assertion that it can't be traced to origin.

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You should publish your study that refutes all the published studies that say otherwise.

Posted: 8/28/2019 2:26:05 PM EDT

[#13]

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If the gold can be fingerprinted, the the entity producing fake marks can also add the impurities in the right amounts to fake the finger printing.

This isn't rocket science

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Fingerprinting is done at the molecular level.

Its not just sprinkling in a few alloys here and there.

Posted: 8/28/2019 2:52:51 PM EDT

[#14]

So where can I buy some of this fake, but real gold??

Posted: 8/28/2019 3:08:23 PM EDT

[#15]

“Fortunately, we have yet to have an incident resulting in a loss to the firm or a client.”

Naturally, the firm comes first.

Posted: 8/28/2019 3:12:54 PM EDT

[#16]

Is it real gold? If yes, then why should I care what stamp it wears.

Gold is gold.

I personally don't give a shit if my Krugerrands are apartheid era of if my stash of diamonds come straight from a conflict zone. Blood washes off stones and burns off when gold is smelted.

Posted: 8/28/2019 3:14:30 PM EDT

[#17]

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I doubt this is a major problem anyways, who actually takes receipt of bars? These days everybody buys paper gold.

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real gold with fake markings? dont care... fake gold / gold plated steel bars? yeah, now we have a problem.

I doubt this is a major problem anyways, who actually takes receipt of bars? These days everybody buys paper gold.

Dude! Paper gold is not gold. It is paper. Unless you're a .gov or a major corporation, gold ain't really real and it sure as fuck ain't really yours unless you can hold it in your hand.

Posted: 8/28/2019 3:31:57 PM EDT

[#18]

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That's my logic. I wanted my wife to know that someone died for her rock.

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and someone else smuggled it out in their anus

The stink lasts forever!

Posted: 8/28/2019 3:41:20 PM EDT

[#19]

I don't get it. How do criminal enterprises profit by stamping gold with a refiner's logo? That ain't laundering to me. It's just buying $100 worth of gold, stamping it with a refiner's logo and selling it for $100. Unless they buy the original gold cheaper than market ... but they could do that in the gold markets if they were clever.

Posted: 8/28/2019 3:58:58 PM EDT

[#20]

They’re impounding real gold? Isn’t that theft? Gold=Gold

Posted: 8/28/2019 5:34:37 PM EDT

[#21]

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I don't get it. How do criminal enterprises profit by stamping gold with a refiner's logo? That ain't laundering to me. It's just buying $100 worth of gold, stamping it with a refiner's logo and selling it for $100. Unless they buy the original gold cheaper than market ... but they could do that in the gold markets if they were clever.

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Because they're making look like it's a $100 gold bar from a known refiner when in reality it could be 98 dollars or 87 dollars.

They're using the refiner's reputation to sell mystery gold

Or think of it this way. If I start selling my reloads in Winchester white box packaging for WWB proces

It could be Winchester brass, 230gr ball like it says on the box but it could be light loads, shit primers and crappy copper washed lead.

Posted: 8/28/2019 5:56:37 PM EDT

[#22]

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So, it's still real gold, worth the same as any other gold.

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The counterfeits in these cases are subtler: The gold is real, and very high purity, with only the markings faked

So, it's still real gold, worth the same as any other gold.

Not necessarily. Read your quote above again. Especially this part: "The gold is real, and very high purity...." Real gold, produced and marked by the legitimate source is 99.999 % pure gold. This phrase: "very high purity" means that it is not 100% pure gold. Which means you are getting less gold than you paid for because of the high price of gold, if you buy 100 ozs of the fake branded bullion and let's say that it is 90% pure gold. Gold is selling for about $1,541/oz. For each ounce you are losing $154.10. Multiple that by 100 ozs and you were just ripped off $15,410.00. So, no, it's not the same as any other gold. If it was 100% pure, then no big deal. It's the fact that it isn't 100% and the fact that the markings are counterfeit, means you you have to have all of it tested for purity, which means what? Do you have to have it all melted down??

Posted: 8/28/2019 5:58:55 PM EDT

[#23]

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LOL.

If you buy gold in a store, ANY GOLD, it has blood on it.

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have them wipe it off, like with a cloth

Posted: 8/28/2019 7:13:26 PM EDT

[#24]

If you want a gold bar, make your own:

Sreetips Refines $11,000 Gold Bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epl74FE6l0s

Posted: 8/28/2019 7:33:31 PM EDT

[#25]

Whenever I read article about counterfeiting, the first thing I do is start skimming down the article waiting for the inevitable "China" to pop up. Every single time, without fail.

Posted: 8/28/2019 9:31:44 PM EDT

[#26]

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This is true.

Maybe. Generally speaking, gold gets that level of analysis before it hits the refinery and gets the seal.

Which is where the real problem lies. Whether or not the gold is "real" is irrelevant, this has the potential to undermine the confidence placed in gold that is produced in these refineries.

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Came here to post this. This has the potential to damage the public perception (valid or not) of gold as a "store of value" in tumultous economic times. Someone trying to depress the price of gold for some reason??

Posted: 8/28/2019 9:45:44 PM EDT

[#27]

Lol. JP Morgan said that they aren't out any money, and also the they send forgeries to the refinery to be impounded.

So that sounds like the refinery trades them an authentic stamped bar for the forgery. Then takes the forgery reprocesses it and magically washes away that illegal conflict part of the gold so it can enter the marketplace as "legal" gold. Seems legit.

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:01:56 PM EDT

[#28]

Criminal outfits will always find a way to launder money. Nothing new here.

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:19:49 PM EDT

[#29]

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"The counterfeits in these cases are subtler: The gold is real, and very high purity, with only the markings faked."

So it's logo theft? Other then the logo, it's the same damn thing. I wouldn't care if the mulch I bought from Lowes had a fake logo on it.. its mulch...

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Sounds like a logo infringement. I wonder if someone on the goldbars.com forum pointed this problem out to the mods and got a free year membership......

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:21:01 PM EDT

[#30]

doubletap

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:30:29 PM EDT

[#31]

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So the gold is "fake" because it was mined in a third world shithole with terrible working conditions and they forged an SJW approved "legitimate refinery" stamp?

LOL who cares? Still gold.

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Same as the whole blood diamond fiasco. Can't make that a real market without bloodshed and slavery with the current BS regulations that artificially bloat diamond prices.

Diamond's a diamond, gold is gold... But if it isn't mined/refined/processed by a "legitimate" entity that is owned by, or kow-tows to whomever is running the show, it represents a threat to those with vested interests in that market.

They whine about drug lords, cartels, etc, not the dudes and small companies that go out, find a source, mine the shit and have it refined, all without going through the regulatory BS where uncle sam takes his cut.

Nevermind how many gold bars in various vaults are loaded with tungsten rods to manipulate the market.

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:37:48 PM EDT

[#32]

Why would anyone buy gold anyway? Buy municipal bonds or an index fund, THOSE have intrinsic value.

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:46:23 PM EDT

[#33]

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Not plated steel, they are using Tungsten it's heaver

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I remember reading years ago that they were putting tungsten bars inside of gold bars and getting away with it.

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:47:10 PM EDT

[#34]

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It says "counterfeit branded or fake branded". If you paid $300k for a Ferrari that was made from all Ferrari parts but later found out that it was not assembled in the Ferrari factory would you not feel ripped off? Companies spend a years, decades etc developing a brand that people rely on or count on.

China the king of counterfeiters and they need to be stopped.

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Gold is not a Ferrari; it's quite literally a commodity.

Posted: 8/28/2019 10:47:39 PM EDT

[#35]

and just like that...

Posted: 8/28/2019 11:00:31 PM EDT

[#36]

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Not necessarily. Read your quote above again. Especially this part: "The gold is real, and very high purity...." Real gold, produced and marked by the legitimate source is 99.999 % pure gold. This phrase: "very high purity" means that it is not 100% pure gold. Which means you are getting less gold than you paid for because of the high price of gold, if you buy 100 ozs of the fake branded bullion and let's say that it is 90% pure gold. Gold is selling for about $1,541/oz. For each ounce you are losing $154.10. Multiple that by 100 ozs and you were just ripped off $15,410.00. So, no, it's not the same as any other gold. If it was 100% pure, then no big deal. It's the fact that it isn't 100% and the fact that the markings are counterfeit, means you you have to have all of it tested for purity, which means what? Do you have to have it all melted down??

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90 percent is NOT "very high purity". You totally misunderstand what is happening. This is money laundering, not fraud. The counterfeiters have every incentive to make the bars indistinguishable from "legit" bars, to include purity, because that is what allows them to launder more "dirty" gold.

Posted: 8/28/2019 11:07:26 PM EDT

[#37]

Elemental, my dear central banker.

Posted: 8/28/2019 11:18:24 PM EDT

[#38]

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I don't get it. How do criminal enterprises profit by stamping gold with a refiner's logo? That ain't laundering to me. It's just buying $100 worth of gold, stamping it with a refiner's logo and selling it for $100. Unless they buy the original gold cheaper than market ... but they could do that in the gold markets if they were clever.

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Because Apmex(for example) has known standards and is known in the metals market. Your neighbor Steve down the street who knows how to smelt and purify gold isn't known on the market. Steve will have a harder time selling his $100 in gold smelted from lucky finds at the thrift store for $100 than Apmex will. He'll have to sell his $100 in gold for $60. But if he can believably fake Apmex markings he can get his full $100.

Now apply the same idea to places the "PC world market" doesn't want to buy from this week, and imagine that $100 turning into millions or more. Melt your warzone gold, add a fake certification. It's no longer warzone gold and everybody will pay full price.

Posted: 8/29/2019 12:51:14 AM EDT

[#39]

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Why would anyone buy gold anyway? Buy municipal bonds or an index fund, THOSE have intrinsic value.

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They pay interest and dividends. I have owned PMs for 40+ years. They have yet to issue me a check for either.

Posted: 8/29/2019 12:57:17 AM EDT

[#40]

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Why would anyone buy gold anyway? Buy municipal bonds or an index fund, THOSE have intrinsic value.

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I'm sorry but that is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. Practically every municipality is carrying too much debt, reliant on increased property values which itself is in a bubble. On top of that the bond market is in a bubble and is ready to pop.

Posted: 8/29/2019 12:58:24 AM EDT

[#41]

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It is not clear who is making the bars found so far, but executives and bankers told Reuters they think most originate in China, the world's largest gold producer and importer, and have entered the market via dealers and trading houses in Hong Kong, Japan and Thailand. Once accepted by a mainstream gold dealer in these places, they can quickly spread into supply chains worldwide.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gold-swiss-fakes-exclusive/exclusive-fake-branded-bars-slip-dirty-gold-into-world-markets-idUSKCN1VI0DD?il=0&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

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Shocker

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:02:27 AM EDT

[#42]

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I'm sorry but that is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. Practically every municipality is carrying too much debt, reliant on increased property values which itself is in a bubble. On top of that the bond market is in a bubble and is ready to pop.

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What do you mean the bond market is "in a bubble and ready to pop"? Interest rates going lower? Higher? Wut?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:23:27 AM EDT

[#43]

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Not if it fucks with the artificially inflated politically approved gold market. It is worth more to some people, less to others.

Think: diamond market.

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Don't tell me what to think.