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Posted: 2/10/2018 10:47:20 AM EST
     
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Posted: 2/10/2018 10:57:10 AM EST
[#1]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:06:09 AM EST
[#2]
I like these threads
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:21:02 AM EST
[#3]
Always hated having to dig in our TOW ground mount for practice.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:44:18 AM EST
[#4]
 Attached FileThe Battle of Cerignola, 1503. Sorry, they didn't have cameras back then. The Spanish dug in and placed their arquebusiers in the trenches. The French cavalry attacked and were slaughtered by arquebus fire. The first major battle won by the use of firearms. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:54:35 AM EST
[#5]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:06:21 PM EST
[#6]
Civil War sketch by Alfred Waud. Picket in front of Fort Mahone (Petersburg, VA)
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:06:30 PM EST
[#7]
Once during training we had a couple of infantry guys hanging around (I was in Arty.) They laughed at our "fox hole" and said "what's the point?" The hole was made to the proper dimensions but wasn't camouflaged, had no overhead cover, etc. We had to explain to them that if we ever needed to use that hole they would have failed at their job and would be dead.
No pics, no digital cameras back then. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:11:34 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Always hated having to dig in our TOW ground mount for practice. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:13:06 PM EST
[#9]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:19:50 PM EST
[#10]
No foxholes at my house but I have Range cards (in a binder, not posted at each, but readily available) for every outward facing window on my house (ground and 2nd floor) for ranges set for 5.56/.223, 7.62x51/.308, 9mm and 12 gauge.
My wife thinks I’m crazy  I told her we’ll be ready for the Zombie-pocalypse, martial law or more than likely the “SJW-pocalypse.” |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:30:37 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No foxholes at my house but I have Range cards (in a binder, not posted at each, but readily available) for every outward facing window on my house (ground and 2nd floor) for ranges set for 5.56/.223, 7.62x51/.308, 9mm and 12 gauge. My wife thinks I'm crazy I told her we'll be ready for the Zombie-pocalypse, martial law or more than likely the "SJW-pocalypse." |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:51:33 PM EST
[#12]
I have always been fascinated by WWI trench warfare. As a kid, I always figured that they just scraped them out where and when they could, without much engineering. Later, I found some manuals on the topic. Like all manuals, I'm sure they were guidelines, not hard and fast rules. But, it shows the level of thinking that went into these positions. Not as cool as actual pics, but here are some excerpts.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:52:52 PM EST
[#13]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:53:56 PM EST
[#14]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:54:42 PM EST
[#15]
Lol fpni
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:58:44 PM EST
[#16]
I dug a new fox hole every night for 7 months but never consulted a manual.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 1:54:17 PM EST
[#17]
Span-Am and Philippines Insurrection
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Posted: 2/10/2018 1:55:58 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dug a new fox hole every night for 7 months but never consulted a manual. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 1:57:46 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol fpni |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:09:50 PM EST
[#20]
Cool thread idea...
 
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:12:18 PM EST
[#21]
About o dark thirty my ARNG unit disembarks the transport vehicles we rode for training and while the PSG was back at battalion our 1SG tells me to put my squad in a spot I suspect is covered in poison ivy. I point and say that there’s poison ivy, he says I don’t see any. So I tore that shit out of there, so my squad wouldn’t get fucked up. The next day after stand to he comes by with the CO and I just point my entrenching tool towards the shit. He says nothing. Later that day another platoon reports they had a rash of poison ivy and 8 soldiers have it bad
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:14:43 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Always hated having to dig in our TOW ground mount for practice. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:19:35 PM EST
[#23]
I can’t remember if it was at NTC or where but someone had a USSR manual that featured how to make a fighting position. Everybody in the Army surely has seen this illustration
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:25:05 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with your wife. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:26:44 PM EST
[#25]
We were supposed to dig with grenade sumps but man was it hard work to dig holes that deep. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:35:22 PM EST
[#26]
Civil War trenches with overhead cover for shade:
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:44:23 PM EST
[#27]
If you depart the area you have to fill it in but if you stay you have to improve it
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:55:13 PM EST
[#28]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:03:29 PM EST
[#29]
One M16 across, 2 M16s wide, chest deep, grenade dumps in each corner. You have 4 hours to complete your DFP. Dug a few of those!
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:07:57 PM EST
[#30]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:16:56 PM EST
[#31]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:23:33 PM EST
[#32]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:33:34 PM EST
[#33]
Friends of mine at a public WWII reenactment.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 4:02:59 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heavily influenced by Vauban. Quote HistoryIt's no surprise that our manuals followed their doctrine. Most of the manuals that I have are translated from French manuals by the Army War College, or borrowed from the Brits. Plus, we were in their backyard. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 4:27:17 PM EST
[#35]
Several years back I was in Virginia on a history tour with a bunch of homeschoolers.
One of the things we got to do was tour an old plantation, and saw the remnants of some old trenches dug by union troops. You could clearly see the layout and the berms protecting the troops, much of it with trees growing out of it. We were told that there would have been sharpened tree trunks set to the front to repel cavalry. Kind of eerie to think it's still out there after all this time. The owner was reluctant to allow visitors and uneasy about the site being disturbed. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 4:30:41 PM EST
[#36]
Julius Caesar made extensive use of trenches in his gallic wars. In fact trench warfare was not uncommon in the classical word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 4:39:26 PM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:29:04 PM EST
[#38]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:29:25 PM EST
[#39]
 Failed To Load Title  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:31:35 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No foxholes at my house but I have Range cards (in a binder, not posted at each, but readily available) for every outward facing window on my house (ground and 2nd floor) for ranges set for 5.56/.223, 7.62x51/.308, 9mm and 12 gauge. My wife thinks I'm crazy I told her we'll be ready for the Zombie-pocalypse, martial law or more than likely the "SJW-pocalypse." |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:32:06 PM EST
[#41]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:38:18 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two Kevlars wide, 2 M16s long, chest deep to the shortest man, minimum 6" grenade sumps in each corner. Minimum 18" overhead cover. You have 4 hours to complete your DFP. Dug a few of those! |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:53:28 PM EST
[#43]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:24:17 PM EST
[#44]
After seeing so many different fortified positions built by other armies around the world, it became painfully obvious to me that this is one area where the US sucks completely at, for a number of reasons:
1. Our officers don't know history, have never studied enough detailed military history to understand basic fortifications, camouflage discipline, and some of the age-old tactics used for fortified positions. 2. We don't have any natural enemies on our borders who are a military threat to us. 3. Our strategic and theater-level force posture is normally focused on air and naval dominance, supporting our allies, logistics, and maneuver if necessary. 4. We historically have an on-again, off-again force mobilization trend that knee-jerks when we need to deploy for combat, then purges the experience from the ranks during peacetime and rewards sh*tbags and careerist morons who can't rub 2 brain cells together. Those turds filling leader suits are then the next senior commanders and NCOs to take the new generation of young bloods into war to have the juniors re-learn lessons their older brothers also re-learned the hard way from the last overseas commitment that was conceived by that generation's morons. There are bunker-trench complexes built in the 1940s that exceed the military understanding and capacity of our current climate by leaps and bounds. US units are typically very undisciplined when it comes to basic fortifications on FOBs, especially when it comes to where to locate them, how to camouflage them, how to shape the structures, and how to defend them. This should not be the case because we have volumes of institutional and historical knowledge to study and apply, with more logistics to build than any other nation with both hands tied behind our backs, with good initiative from some junior leaders. Since the command climate and senior leadership development focus is so corrupted with careerists instead of true students of their craft, we continue to suck in this area. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:25:56 PM EST
[#45]
wherever I be is the best fighting position
Cool pics BTW |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:29:15 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was definitely a war of old-world mixed with new-world. Even with the new technology, 200 year old trench designs ground it down to a stalemate. It's no surprise that our manuals followed their doctrine. Most of the manuals that I have are translated from French manuals by the Army War College, or borrowed from the Brits. Plus, we were in their backyard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was definitely a war of old-world mixed with new-world. Even with the new technology, 200 year old trench designs ground it down to a stalemate.
It's no surprise that our manuals followed their doctrine. Most of the manuals that I have are translated from French manuals by the Army War College, or borrowed from the Brits. Plus, we were in their backyard. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:32:37 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
where? Digging a hole in a granite mountain can be hard. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:41:58 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After seeing so many different fortified positions built by other armies around the world, it became painfully obvious to me that this is one area where the US sucks completely at, for a number of reasons: 1. Our officers don't know history, have never studied enough detailed military history to understand basic fortifications, camouflage discipline, and some of the age-old tactics used for fortified positions. 2. We don't have any natural enemies on our borders who are a military threat to us. 3. Our strategic and theater-level force posture is normally focused on air and naval dominance, supporting our allies, logistics, and maneuver if necessary. 4. We historically have an on-again, off-again force mobilization trend that knee-jerks when we need to deploy for combat, then purges the experience from the ranks during peacetime and rewards sh*tbags and careerist morons who can't rub 2 brain cells together. Those turds filling leader suits are then the next senior commanders and NCOs to take the new generation of young bloods into war to have the juniors re-learn lessons their older brothers also re-learned the hard way from the last overseas commitment that was conceived by that generation's morons. There are bunker-trench complexes built in the 1940s that exceed the military understanding and capacity of our current climate by leaps and bounds. US units are typically very undisciplined when it comes to basic fortifications on FOBs, especially when it comes to where to locate them, how to camouflage them, how to shape the structures, and how to defend them. This should not be the case because we have volumes of institutional and historical knowledge to study and apply, with more logistics to build than any other nation with both hands tied behind our backs, with good initiative from some junior leaders. Since the command climate and senior leadership development focus is so corrupted with careerists instead of true students of their craft, we continue to suck in this area. 
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:46:42 PM EST
[#49]
Always dig a
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Posted: 2/10/2018 7:52:49 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wherever I be is the best fighting position Cool pics BTW |
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