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Posted: 4/17/2023 4:54:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol OK, let's see the numbers to support that position. I'm an engineer mind you so make it a strong response. I want to see charge rate, number and cost of panels to produce that, adjusted for sunlight intensity and duration in PA. I have > 450kWh of energy stored in my garage, in hydrocarbon form. Do you have that amount of energy stored, in batteries ? EV's have their place, I am interested in getting one in the near future. But it's a narrow role, they are a terrible choice from an environmental perspective, and from a independence perspective. I am saying that many people don't bother, because electricity is cheap and they don't have to. If they decide to "embargo" people from petroleum when your fuel reserves are gone, you are DONE. Your vehicle is a paperweight. If you have solar capabilities, you have the option to keep your vehicle with some power. It might be a week or two, or even more, to get a meaningful charge in it, but that will happen WAY before refined petroleum will suddenly appear in your tank. For those who are worried about EVs being shut off and controlled by the government, the possibility of a petroleum embargo to accomplish the same exact thing is just as realistic, and you could argue it would be even more effective once implemented. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 4:59:19 PM EDT
[#2]
thats what Free shit Armys are made of.
playing right into Joeys hand Quote HistoryQuoted: Purchases because of $7500 tax credit. "free market"  "all for capitalism"  |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:04:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: thats what Free shit Armys are made of. playing right into Joeys hand Quote HistoryQuoted: thats what Free shit Armys are made of. playing right into Joeys hand Quoted: Purchases because of $7500 tax credit. "free market" "all for capitalism" And yet we still have people ignorant of the fact that this tax credit is not refundable. OP isn't getting any of anyone else's money. He's getting to keep his own money. Unless you think the tax money you pay is the government's money and not yours... you're seeing it incorrectly. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:04:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are we still pretending that ICE vehicles are more "freedom" than electric, which you can literally charge from your own solar panels on the roof of your house if you choose? Are you refining petroleum in your garage? I know a place. Pumping it! Refining it they are!! KaJung KaJung KaJunggg!!!  Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:09:58 PM EDT
[#5]
they bait ya with so called tax credit. LOL Joey has ya's right where he wants ya's.
buy em up boys. dont forget your crocs also Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet we still have people ignorant of the fact that this tax credit is not refundable. OP isn't getting any of anyone else's money. He's getting to keep his own money. Unless you think the tax money you pay is the government's money and not yours... you're seeing it incorrectly. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:15:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryFantastic, love that kid and its the perfect reply to the opec comment. I might be interested in an EV one day, and it likely would be a Tesla, we sell to them as a supplier and they seem to have their shit together - but not until I can get a little more distance off a charge. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:16:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A body of mine has a model 3 in IL. I asked him how it works in the snow. He says it's the best car he's ever had for snow. His model (a little older) has the option to run rwd, or switch it to awd. He says he never uses awd as it uses more juice and with rwd in the snow and ice he can't tell the difference and is in rwd 99% of the time no matter the weather. FYI. That's why I went with the rwd. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just checking out the Tesla 3 site the base rwd goes for $41,990. I'd need the AWD for the winter for $52,990. Damn that's expensive. Plus then a supercharger install at my house. Id love a EV if they were more affordable. A body of mine has a model 3 in IL. I asked him how it works in the snow. He says it's the best car he's ever had for snow. His model (a little older) has the option to run rwd, or switch it to awd. He says he never uses awd as it uses more juice and with rwd in the snow and ice he can't tell the difference and is in rwd 99% of the time no matter the weather. FYI. That's why I went with the rwd. +1. My EV is awesome in the snow. I have to try to slip and slide. Good winter tires + AWD + weight just glues it to the snow covered roads. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:22:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have we stopped doing "get both"? For a lot of things, EV + Solar and generators is more freedom. For a some things, an ICE is better. The majority of households in the U.S. have more than one car. The Canadian trucker protest isn't a great example, because running a truck for heat isn't efficient, and uses close to a gallon an hour of fuel. Teslas mostly have heatpumps now that sip electricity, and max out at ~700W of consumption. So, a decent inverter generator would keep the battery charged up with the heat running full blast at about 0.18 gallons of fuel per hour. So, for fuel carried into the trucker protest, a Tesla would need about 1/4 as much as a truck. A Tesla Model S has a 100 kWh battery, and a Model 3 can have a 50 kWh battery. A gallon of gas contains 33.7 kWh, so the equivalent amount of gas a Tesla carries ranges from under 3 gallons to less than 1.5 gallons. Or 15% to 7.5% of a 20 gallon tank of gas. But the capacity of the Tesla battery drops at low temps:  EVs have huge potential efficiency potential but the batteries are low energy density by comparison. And in a situation like that, good luck recharging. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:37:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So without tons of outside support they would have been shut down pretty quick. How much outside support do you expect to have if the .gov comes after you? I'm guessing for most people it's a fairly short list. If the .gov decides to limit your movement, eventually they will likely win. Your best bet to beat it would be to have multiple options available and one of those options could be EV....since technically you could charge at home on solar. It would be slow as hell but better than nothing. I'd guess that most people who own EV's also own ICE vehicles but your assuming it's a binary choice. The government is working on removing ICE as a choice. The best thing at this point is for EVs to fail quickly to prevent that. Don't think in terms of the individual, think in terms of the potential for mass resistance to tyranny. The individual capability to charge your car using your home solar panels might have some limited utility in a theoretical situation but it won't aid any large scale resistance to tyranny. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:52:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The government is working on removing ICE as a choice. The best thing at this point is for EVs to fail quickly to prevent that. Don't think in terms of the individual, think in terms of the potential for mass resistance to tyranny. The individual capability to charge your car using your home solar panels might have some limited utility in a theoretical situation but it won't aid any large scale resistance to tyranny. Where are you going to get your petroleum in this fantasy tyranny scenario? Just gonna stop at the local Kum & Go and top off before you go out and boog? |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:56:09 PM EDT
[#11]
EV's are a great option in many instances, however, they just aren't for me....yet.
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Posted: 4/17/2023 5:56:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Purchases because of $7500 tax credit. "free market" "all for capitalism" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Apparently, you exercising your free market rights threatens some people’s manhood. Purchases because of $7500 tax credit. "free market" "all for capitalism" Do you burn ethanol? |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 6:00:53 PM EDT
[#13]
My Tesla stock says thank you
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Posted: 4/17/2023 6:02:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Mom bought a new 3 and had it for a while. In spite of my stating otherwise she didn't get the long range.
She ended up selling it because of.....range. Even though it had plenty of range to get to myself and my sister's place. Loved that car. Acceleration is stupid fun and the FSD is wizardry. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 6:34:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Tesla Model S has a 100 kWh battery, and a Model 3 can have a 50 kWh battery. A gallon of gas contains 33.7 kWh, so the equivalent amount of gas a Tesla carries ranges from under 3 gallons to less than 1.5 gallons. Or 15% to 7.5% of a 20 gallon tank of gas. But the capacity of the Tesla battery drops at low temps: https://www.batterypowertips.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Battery-voltage-capacity-and-temp.png EVs have huge potential efficiency potential but the batteries are low energy density by comparison. And in a situation like that, good luck recharging. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have we stopped doing "get both"? For a lot of things, EV + Solar and generators is more freedom. For a some things, an ICE is better. The majority of households in the U.S. have more than one car. The Canadian trucker protest isn't a great example, because running a truck for heat isn't efficient, and uses close to a gallon an hour of fuel. Teslas mostly have heatpumps now that sip electricity, and max out at ~700W of consumption. So, a decent inverter generator would keep the battery charged up with the heat running full blast at about 0.18 gallons of fuel per hour. So, for fuel carried into the trucker protest, a Tesla would need about 1/4 as much as a truck. A Tesla Model S has a 100 kWh battery, and a Model 3 can have a 50 kWh battery. A gallon of gas contains 33.7 kWh, so the equivalent amount of gas a Tesla carries ranges from under 3 gallons to less than 1.5 gallons. Or 15% to 7.5% of a 20 gallon tank of gas. But the capacity of the Tesla battery drops at low temps: https://www.batterypowertips.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Battery-voltage-capacity-and-temp.png EVs have huge potential efficiency potential but the batteries are low energy density by comparison. And in a situation like that, good luck recharging. Energy density of the battery vs liquid fuel isn't an issue when we're just talking about what it would take to keep from draining the battery. I agree that you wouldn't be charging it with a mains voltage charging station, however, once the conversation goes to people carrying in jugs of gas to a winter protest, the dude with the Tesla and a small generator is going to take less fuel to keep warm. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:03:53 PM EDT
[#16]
I filled up the family truckster today. $67 for a full tank. That much money will get me over 2,100 miles of range out of my Model3P. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:09:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where are you going to get your petroleum in this fantasy tyranny scenario? Just gonna stop at the local Kum & Go and top off before you go out and boog? Petroleum based fuel is not going away. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:13:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But think of all the money you will save on gas and maintenance!!! IT PAYS FOR ITSELF. I know you're being facetious. But those that argue this point need to realize vehicles don't have expensive maintenance until 100,000+ miles. A full synthetic oil change for our SUV is under $35. An air filter every now and then is $15. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:17:20 PM EDT
[#19]
fuck ev's
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:24:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they bait ya with so called tax credit. LOL Joey has ya's right where he wants ya's. buy em up boys. dont forget your crocs also No one with a punisher logo as their profile pic should be criticizing anyone else's life choices. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:33:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I filled up the family truckster today. $67 for a full tank. That much money will get me over 2,100 miles of range out of my Model3P. I used to think in terms how much each trip was going to cost in fuel. 60mi daily commute now cost less than $2. It ain’t ever going to pay for itself, but it’s just plain fun. This EV hate reminds me of when I first started reading here and all the LED lighting hate. The idea of hating something just because “the other side” likes it is so simple minded. EV isn’t the best suited for all situations but for others it excels.. and the ladies want to be the first to  in it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 7:33:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But think of all the money you will save on gas and maintenance!!! IT PAYS FOR ITSELF. My Volt paid for itself... |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 8:32:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Petroleum based fuel is not going away. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where are you going to get your petroleum in this fantasy tyranny scenario? Just gonna stop at the local Kum & Go and top off before you go out and boog? Petroleum based fuel is not going away. Yet, everyone talks about "the government shutting off electricity" etc. In a state of unrest, they could stop delivery of petroleum almost immediately. I think it's silly to buy vehicles based upon a fantasy government police state, but IF that occurred, the guy who put some solar panels on his roof is going to be better off in the long run than a guy depending on the supply chain from the Saudis. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in the fearmongering. Petroleum based fuel will very likely not go away, but you need almost no infrastructure or government permission to top off your batteries (though it could take a while). |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:22:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet, everyone talks about "the government shutting off electricity" etc. In a state of unrest, they could stop delivery of petroleum almost immediately. I think it's silly to buy vehicles based upon a fantasy government police state, but IF that occurred, the guy who put some solar panels on his roof is going to be better off in the long run than a guy depending on the supply chain from the Saudis. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in the fearmongering. Petroleum based fuel will very likely not go away, but you need almost no infrastructure or government permission to top off your batteries (though it could take a while). Until they come and smash your solar panels. They are made of... glass. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:49:05 PM EDT
[#25]
How many charging cycles will a Tesla battery pack sustain and how much to replace the battery pack once its battery life is over?
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:49:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until they come and smash your solar panels. They are made of... glass. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yet, everyone talks about "the government shutting off electricity" etc. In a state of unrest, they could stop delivery of petroleum almost immediately. I think it's silly to buy vehicles based upon a fantasy government police state, but IF that occurred, the guy who put some solar panels on his roof is going to be better off in the long run than a guy depending on the supply chain from the Saudis. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in the fearmongering. Petroleum based fuel will very likely not go away, but you need almost no infrastructure or government permission to top off your batteries (though it could take a while). Until they come and smash your solar panels. They are made of... glass. Possible.....but if someone was going to those lengths to stop you, they could just as easily slash the tires on all your vehicles. Even if your in the small minority that has 4 spares for each vehicle....you'll run out of tires at some point. That's part of the problem with the SHTF scenarios, it's impossible to prepare for every possible way to fail. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:52:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Id drive one too if daddy bought me one
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:55:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Where’s all they Love Earth beatnicks groveling about all the toxins in the huge battery banks and the issues of proper disposal of said hugely toxic chunks of death?
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Posted: 4/18/2023 5:22:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where’s all they Love Earth beatnicks groveling about all the toxins in the huge battery banks and the issues of proper disposal of said hugely toxic chunks of death? I'll bet they on this ship!!  Kirki Oil Spill Of 1991 |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 5:35:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EV's are really cool so people who like really cool stuff will buy them. When enough people have them and depend on them and ICE vehicles begin to be rare the screws will begin to turn in terms of various limitations on your driving a charging of them... based on your ESG score of course. If you want one fine but should always have an older ICE vehicle for backup in case your ESG score drops below par. Good thing they could never do that to someone with an ICEV. 
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Posted: 4/18/2023 5:52:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many charging cycles will a Tesla battery pack sustain and how much to replace the battery pack once its battery life is over? 1500+, with a design life of 200k+ miles in North America. $10-20k to replace. The battery life has been improving, and there's some 300k+ plus ones out there. Elon is asserting that they're good for 300-500k, and that battery module replacement is closer to 5-7k. Though, he may have smoked some good shit and is a little optimistic. Realistically, its not an issue. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:38:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But think of all the money you will save on gas and maintenance!!! IT PAYS FOR ITSELF. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just checking out the Tesla 3 site the base rwd goes for $41,990. I'd need the AWD for the winter for $52,990. Damn that's expensive. Plus then a supercharger install at my house. Id love a EV if they were more affordable. But think of all the money you will save on gas and maintenance!!! IT PAYS FOR ITSELF. You're being a snarky little bitch, but it does save a huge amount of money on fill ups and maintenance. I own a Model S as well as a TRD Pro and a Hellcat. I won't compare the Hellcat, but to "fill up" my Model S at home costs about $8; to fill up my TRD Pro is $70. The Model S has had one repair in 3 years - it's was $400 (a finicky door handle). The TRD has annual maintenance at $600/year plus fluid flushes and other IC maintenance which run between $500 and $1000 annually depending on how much I can do myself due to time constraints. So, while the Tesla is not cheap, it is cheap to run. Incidentally, I went to buy a new Tundra last week and every dealer had it marked up between $7,500 and $12,000 over sticker. If IC manufacturers insist on bleeding customers, fuck em. People that pay over retail are all kinds of stupid. |
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