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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:37:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
This isn’t an immediate thing, but if the company I work for gets bought out, I’ll get a decent chunk of money and was thinking of getting into knife and G10 grip making.
My initial thought was belt grinders, jigs, and all the old fashioned stuff. That’s a massive gamble and time draw though. Add to it handmade knives are a niche and the market determines your profitability, not you. 50 $200 knives would move easier than 20 $500 knives. So my questions. -CAD is kind of taken care of but he said my machine matters and to figure that out first. He seemed pretty confident in it being low cost on his end for knives. -What’s my best bet for a machine, assuming a minimum entry cost to do such a project? -I’ve spent a little time in machine shops, but what are some of the hidden costs I wouldn’t be thinking of? Stuff like managing removed material, lubricants, bits, etc. -Is this feasible for a guy who knows so little to dive into? It would be supplemental income to start so I would have a window to learn from failure. -Any good resources for learning beyond random YouTube searches like I have been? |
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[#1]
Attend the CNC class at Trinidad State college this summer.
https://trinidadstate.edu/gunsmithing/nra_summer.html |
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Keep your powder dry, and watch your back trail.
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[#2]
What operations are you trying to accomplish?
-Knife blanks are typically done on waterjet. -G10 is cut on a router. -Blade profiling can be done on a CNC mill, but final finish is hard to impossible without some time grinding. |
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[#3]
Secondly, you need to look at 200 as a small quantity. The amount of headache that goes into programming a job, setting up tools, creating workholding strategies and cutting jaws, proving the cuts, maintaining coolant, removing chips, loading parts, cleaning coolant off parts, etc. is not trivial. For me, operating in job shop mode, it's around 40 hours per job, whether it's 1 part or 200. (I don't have any help though.)
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[#4]
As someone who owns a manufacturing company in the firearms industry, and does all sorts of different machine work.. I can tell you that to start up, you are much better off to not buy a machine at all. Instead, get your CAD files, and farm out the lower production numbers... get your 50-100 blanks from already established machine shops looking for work to keep their machines busy. You focus on design.. and finish.. and marketing.
And seriously... listen... have your site and your marketing figured out first. You can make the best knife in the world, and fail, if no one knows how to buy, can't buy easily from their phone, and cant pay easy. if you want to chat thru messenger.. feel free. I built my company from a kitchen table to over 1200 products over 20 years. Every pitfall can be avoided. |
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#5]
Originally Posted By PlaysWithAtoms: What operations are you trying to accomplish? -Knife blanks are typically done on waterjet. -G10 is cut on a router. -Blade profiling can be done on a CNC mill, but final finish is hard to impossible without some time grinding. View Quote I might have the blanks water jetted. Really depends on cost. Seen a couple people say cutting to size and running the edges is cheaper to start. Will call some places to see though so good call out. Same thing with G10. They buzzed the edges off a block then cut the block into 2-4 grip panels. A router probably wouldn’t be in the books for me to start. G10 can be water jet too so taking note of that to check on. I would be getting a belt grinder for clean up and sharpening. Just don’t want to be that guy making a handful of high labor belt ground knives and crossing my fingers they sell for a profit. To start it wouldn’t be a big operation. Just dipping my toes in and learning with the goal of growth. If I have a winner after myself and others test it out, no reason I couldn’t crank a bunch out over the weekends. I wouldn’t go full time until I had at least two or three times my current income in reserve. That could never happen though. |
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#6]
Originally Posted By BDA: As someone who owns a manufacturing company in the firearms industry, and does all sorts of different machine work.. I can tell you that to start up, you are much better off to not buy a machine at all. Instead, get your CAD files, and farm out the lower production numbers... get your 50-100 blanks from already established machine shops looking for work to keep their machines busy. You focus on design.. and finish.. and marketing. And seriously... listen... have your site and your marketing figured out first. You can make the best knife in the world, and fail, if no one knows how to buy, can't buy easily from their phone, and cant pay easy. if you want to chat thru messenger.. feel free. I built my company from a kitchen table to over 1200 products over 20 years. Every pitfall can be avoided. View Quote Very much appreciate the honest advice and you’re very likely right. I have no idea what I need and revenue generation/sales will determine that. I would have a financial buffer to learn, but why gamble on equipment until I know. Any rough estimate on what something like 50 knives of average size would cost just in the CNC work? I know that’s probably impossibly hard to guess at even if you’re producing something remotely similar in complexity, but let’s just throw out a common blade shape like a Kabar but full tang. I currently work in business analytics. Most people think profits start when the first production runs are done. I know better. Giving them away to people with reach and eating loss on start up sales and advertising have to be factored in as part of the initial investment. I’ve seen newer companies with game changing products in their industry shrivel up and die because they expected their product to carry their company and not vice versa. |
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[#7]
Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Very much appreciate the honest advice and you’re very likely right. I have no idea what I need and revenue generation/sales will determine that. I would have a financial buffer to learn, but why gamble on equipment until I know. Any rough estimate on what something like 50 knives of average size would cost just in the CNC work? I know that’s probably impossibly hard to guess at even if you’re producing something remotely similar in complexity, but let’s just throw out a common blade shape like a Kabar but full tang. I currently work in business analytics. Most people think profits start when the first production runs are done. I know better. Giving them away to people with reach and eating loss on start up sales and advertising have to be factored in as part of the initial investment. I’ve seen newer companies with game changing products in their industry shrivel up and die because they expected their product to carry their company and not vice versa. View Quote Depending on material.. and the shop, and how hungry they are, CNC machined steels without too many complex shapes is fairly cheap. Case in point.. you can make Glock 19 barrels out of 416 stainless, and heat treat, and have unfinished "ready to finish" parts for around $25-$35 depending on how much extra touches you add on a run of about 100 parts. I would assume a knife would be less complex than a glock barrel. So if you could get 100x blanks to start, that you can finish... you might find shops that can source material, machine, and deliver below $20 per unit if you provide the CAD This is a pitfall some folks make.. they spend big on machines, and wont see an ROI for years at the small production runs they are doing. Instead, buy your CAD.. and invest in unique design. Really figure out your niche and exploit it. What are you doing that isn't already being done by dozens of others? What sets you apart? Find that and market that. The hard part is the marketing. The social media.. making connections with other like minded shops, artists, creators, and getting into that circle that helps promote each other. But having your own unique vision makes the rest fall into place easy if you do the work. If you can find a way to do that, then in a year or two, when sales are steady and you want to start bringing production in house, then start investing in machines. My advice anyways! We have 7 machines in house, and I still farm out to other friendly shops here in the USA to make parts and pieces that we then assemble. |
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[#8]
There are so many knives. I would caution you that the market is full.
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[#9]
Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I might have the blanks water jetted. Really depends on cost. Seen a couple people say cutting to size and running the edges is cheaper to start. Will call some places to see though so good call out. Same thing with G10. They buzzed the edges off a block then cut the block into 2-4 grip panels. A router probably wouldn’t be in the books for me to start. G10 can be water jet too so taking note of that to check on. I would be getting a belt grinder for clean up and sharpening. Just don’t want to be that guy making a handful of high labor belt ground knives and crossing my fingers they sell for a profit. To start it wouldn’t be a big operation. Just dipping my toes in and learning with the goal of growth. If I have a winner after myself and others test it out, no reason I couldn’t crank a bunch out over the weekends. I wouldn’t go full time until I had at least two or three times my current income in reserve. That could never happen though. View Quote There isn't an easy way to cut blanks on a standard 3-axis mill. (Not that I have figured out yet!) It generally requires 2 operations and wastes a lot of material due to the end mill consuming a cut width. You also run into speed constraints because the blank material is thin. When you factor your time and the waste, it really is a waterjet job. Plus, WJ is quite precise and allows good repeatable fixturing. Generally, I agree with BDA. Do the design work and finishing. Putting a final edge on a custom blade is not a CNC job and you are the right tool for that. Let other shops buy the $200k machine and pay it off. If your designs are unsuccessful you are only out a few thousand. On the other hand, some people are dead set on CNC. A used Robodrill, VF2SS, or Speedio can be had for $30K. You can get into CNC for that plus $20K in tooling (if you're not wasteful). Those machines fit in a garage. |
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#10]
Originally Posted By gaspain: There are so many knives. I would caution you that the market is full. View Quote I have some pretty unique ideas. Nothing that’s outlandish or flamboyant. I’ve spent a lot over the years on customs, the very few production knives that were close, and modifying production knives. Those all have creative restrictions so I’ve never fully scratched the itch. The idea started as making the ideal knife for me. The investment for one knife doesn’t make sense though. That in combination with the gap in the market for the style of knives I like, it just makes sense in my head. Smarter men have failed with better ideas, but I’m not going into it expecting success. Literally won’t be quitting my day job. |
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[#11]
Recommend to start with a manually made knife to test the market with your design and go from there.
Robots are efficient and you can batch them in larger quantity, but it requires significant $$$$$ investment. Not only in the robots themselves but software, tooling, expertise, R&D (mistakes ), proofing. The learning curve is steep but not impossible. A cool and relevant resource: https://goughcustom.com/ Making a knife the high-tech way - Resolute MkIII And another video that tests a classic machinist against modern design and robots: I Raced a $600,000 CNC Machine |
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[#12]
I'd farm out all machine cost except a belt grinder like a BurrKing. And maybe a heat treating furnace to harden and temper blades.
You get one design drawn in CAD and save the side profile view as a .dxf. You can then use https://www.oshcut.com/knife-blanks/ to quote the blank production cost. Send cut send doesn't have knife steels listed on their standard materials list last I checked. https://www.xometry.com/ has some steel listed that could be used to make blades. Emachineshop.com may also be an option. They don't list materials they usually cut. |
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[#13]
Originally Posted By PlaysWithAtoms: There isn't an easy way to cut blanks on a standard 3-axis mill. (Not that I have figured out yet!) It generally requires 2 operations and wastes a lot of material due to the end mill consuming a cut width. You also run into speed constraints because the blank material is thin. When you factor your time and the waste, it really is a waterjet job. Plus, WJ is quite precise and allows good repeatable fixturing. Generally, I agree with BDA. Do the design work and finishing. Putting a final edge on a custom blade is not a CNC job and you are the right tool for that. Let other shops buy the $200k machine and pay it off. If your designs are unsuccessful you are only out a few thousand. On the other hand, some people are dead set on CNC. A used Robodrill, VF2SS, or Speedio can be had for $30K. You can get into CNC for that plus $20K in tooling (if you're not wasteful). Those machines fit in a garage. View Quote Yeah I think he’s spot on too so that’s going to be my plan. Learning what exact machinery I need is critical and that requires revenue stability, historical sales to forecast need, and me learning a lot more. Dropping $30k on a CNC and $2000 a month for a commercial unit rental would end things pretty quick, and getting some tiny little slow output machine in my garage would take all of the fun out of it if I’m neck deep in back orders with no ability to expand. Much appreciate the input from everyone. I think I’m going to start with enrolling in some courses like recommended above. Unfortunately all my local hands on places require electives and I’m not going to go sit my almost 40 year old ass in English Literature next to a bunch of femcels and soy boys. BDA, I have some marketing ideas I’d like to run by you. Will send you a PM tomorrow when it’s not night owl hours. Thanks again all. |
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[#14]
Originally Posted By Meche_03: I'd farm out all machine cost except a belt grinder like a BurrKing. And maybe a heat treating furnace to harden and temper blades. You get one design drawn in CAD and save the side profile view as a .dxf. You can then use https://www.oshcut.com/knife-blanks/ to quote the blank production cost. Send cut send doesn't have knife steels listed on their standard materials list last I checked. https://www.xometry.com/ has some steel listed that could be used to make blades. Emachineshop.com may also be an option. They don't list materials they usually cut. View Quote Good stuff. I’ll probably buy a belt grinder soon just because I’ll need it either way and they’re not stupid expensive. Would be good to test out the first design I want to make too. The first knife I want to make is a bigger size so it will likely be 5160. Already know a guy who does heat treating (including differential) and cryo. Will have to see what he would charge me. Furnaces don’t seem too expensive, just a matter of weighing out if it’s worth buying now if I have to buy another later. |
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[Last Edit: gaspain]
[#15]
I would do Wire EDM instead of CNC. Easier for you and cheaper and can cut anything even after you harden it.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_194/2724634_Betta-Wire-A-Desktop-4-Axis-Wire-EDM-Machine-You-Can-3D-Print.html |
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[Last Edit: Jkees]
[#16]
I got no real experience so take my word lightly,
But much as with the market of modern art or furniture, the reality is that there is no shortage of knives. There is nothing you can bring that is new to the table, what will determine success is not the quality or even price of your product, but rather how effectively and broadly you can market them to reach an audience that is interested. Of course quality and price makes that marketing road much easier than before, but I would say you should focus more on getting a machine thats just good enough to get some production, and then start spending more in the realms of third party testing, sponsors, youtubers etc... As the orders come in, you can use that money to invest in tooling up to the demand required. Oh and customer service. Have a plan for that day 1 and make sure it is efficient. It seems that is always the first things people ask about new companies, can make or break an initial effort. |
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[#17]
There's about 5,000 similar people on Instagram right now.
Buy a Tormach, Fusion 360, and an Ameribrade belt sander setup. Then figure out how to sell in a heavily diluted market. |
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[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#18]
Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Yeah I think he's spot on too so that's going to be my plan. Learning what exact machinery I need is critical and that requires revenue stability, historical sales to forecast need, and me learning a lot more. Dropping $30k on a CNC and $2000 a month for a commercial unit rental would end things pretty quick, and getting some tiny little slow output machine in my garage would take all of the fun out of it if I'm neck deep in back orders with no ability to expand. Much appreciate the input from everyone. I think I'm going to start with enrolling in some courses like recommended above. Unfortunately all my local hands on places require electives and I'm not going to go sit my almost 40 year old ass in English Literature next to a bunch of femcels and soy boys. BDA, I have some marketing ideas I'd like to run by you. Will send you a PM tomorrow when it's not night owl hours. Thanks again all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By PlaysWithAtoms: There isn't an easy way to cut blanks on a standard 3-axis mill. (Not that I have figured out yet!) It generally requires 2 operations and wastes a lot of material due to the end mill consuming a cut width. You also run into speed constraints because the blank material is thin. When you factor your time and the waste, it really is a waterjet job. Plus, WJ is quite precise and allows good repeatable fixturing. Generally, I agree with BDA. Do the design work and finishing. Putting a final edge on a custom blade is not a CNC job and you are the right tool for that. Let other shops buy the $200k machine and pay it off. If your designs are unsuccessful you are only out a few thousand. On the other hand, some people are dead set on CNC. A used Robodrill, VF2SS, or Speedio can be had for $30K. You can get into CNC for that plus $20K in tooling (if you're not wasteful). Those machines fit in a garage. Yeah I think he's spot on too so that's going to be my plan. Learning what exact machinery I need is critical and that requires revenue stability, historical sales to forecast need, and me learning a lot more. Dropping $30k on a CNC and $2000 a month for a commercial unit rental would end things pretty quick, and getting some tiny little slow output machine in my garage would take all of the fun out of it if I'm neck deep in back orders with no ability to expand. Much appreciate the input from everyone. I think I'm going to start with enrolling in some courses like recommended above. Unfortunately all my local hands on places require electives and I'm not going to go sit my almost 40 year old ass in English Literature next to a bunch of femcels and soy boys. BDA, I have some marketing ideas I'd like to run by you. Will send you a PM tomorrow when it's not night owl hours. Thanks again all. Don't take classes for a degree, take classes for the experience and education you need. Some prerequisites might be needed, but certainly not elective courses that aren't applicable. My opinion about knives - There are two categories, serviceable utility knives and collectible knives with various cosmetic and decorative additions. Utility knives have to be priced similar to the upper end of mass production, and without a reputation, they'll be difficult to sell. Plus, everyone believes they can make a knife, and they're correct after the first or second attempt. Collectibles can be priced according to the artistic features, which must be exceptional. Chef's knives are somewhere in the middle, and that's where many makers concentrate because they developed a local market with references from early buyers. I also believe that there are too many bad knife shapes for sale. Those knives had better be sold with high quality sheaths, too, unless they are chef's knives. |
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Keep your powder dry, and watch your back trail.
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[#19]
Originally Posted By BDA: As someone who owns a manufacturing company in the firearms industry, and does all sorts of different machine work.. I can tell you that to start up, you are much better off to not buy a machine at all. Instead, get your CAD files, and farm out the lower production numbers... get your 50-100 blanks from already established machine shops looking for work to keep their machines busy. You focus on design.. and finish.. and marketing. And seriously... listen... have your site and your marketing figured out first. You can make the best knife in the world, and fail, if no one knows how to buy, can't buy easily from their phone, and cant pay easy. if you want to chat thru messenger.. feel free. I built my company from a kitchen table to over 1200 products over 20 years. Every pitfall can be avoided. View Quote What he said is right. Sell it first, then figure out how to do it. |
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[#20]
(Total units * cost per unit ) - how much money are you willing to pay Garandthumb to shill your product = actual profit
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[#21]
I've got to agree it is a saturated market, so ease in slowly with minimal non-recoverable investment. If you can take off, great. Expand operations. If not, you tried, no shame, and move on to the next.
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Strong men create good times. Good times breed weak men. Weak men create hard times. (You are here) Hard times breed strong men.
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#22]
Originally Posted By bionicmonkey: (Total units * cost per unit ) - how much money are you willing to pay Garandthumb to shill your product = actual profit View Quote I actually know one famous guntuber by name and have conversed with another one a bit. Problem is they don’t really knives, and the gun and knife hobbies aren’t nearly as connected as most think. Most knife companies would give you a blank stare if you said you wanted something in FDE, and probably 95% of gun owners are carrying gas station quality knives. |
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[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#23]
Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I actually know one famous guntuber by name and have conversed with another one a bit. Problem is they don't really knives, and the gun and knife hobbies aren't nearly as connected as most think. Most knife companies would give you a blank stare if you said you wanted something in FDE, and probably 95% of gun owners are carrying gas station quality knives. View Quote Price is probably the answer. Most people would rather spend $20 on a cheap knives a couple times a year than $100 on a knife that lasts 5 or even 10 years, or even a lifetime if not lost or used as a pry bar. IMHO, and I'm just me talking, people for the most part don't care about quality, they care about price, and more specifically the here and now price. I would say once you are asking $50+ for a knife, you are selling to a much smaller audience. Not to discourage you at all, just be aware that what is a great idea may not be mass marketable, even to the group that *should* be all for it. Basically, you have to be wise in how you utilize your marketing budget, and have firm, actual (not theoretical) knowledge of the group that likes your product enough to spend their monies on it, and cater to them. I invented a training trigger for ARs (still hold the patent) but sales were not strong enough to justify keeping it going at the time. I want to get it going again one day before the next patent fees are due, but I've been busy with other aspects of business. I still think it is a good idea, I've figured out how to improve it even, but what my marketing budget at the time would allow did not bring in enough sales to justify the time spent on the project. That project is actually what got me into 3D printing . There are also riches in niches, which is my go-to for my mainline business, so if you do have something unique, build it right, market it right, and customer service it right, it can take off beyond your wildest (well, maybe not wildest) dreams. |
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Strong men create good times. Good times breed weak men. Weak men create hard times. (You are here) Hard times breed strong men.
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[#24]
The first couple posts are good wisdom.
I even agree with the machine choices if you chose to go that route. Some wiz bang folder with ball bearings and a cool lock is a design intensive endeavor, a fixed blade is a materials, attention to detail and execution endeavor. It's a deep field, people make careers out of parts of what it takes and you will literally never master all if it. None of us do. I'm not a knife maker, well not this kind of knife anyway. I'm a tool maker, machinists, designer, engineer, welder, fabricator, car guy, engine dork and auto didactic business owner that doesn't get enough sleep. Just heat treating and tool steels is a vast topic. You can't chew this big of a bite all at once. The idea to farm out the basics and focus on design, finishing and marketing is wise. It is a saturated market, so not putting up a bunch a capital is also wise. Let others handle the initial production for now, success will allow you the time to expand your skills and grow if you want. There is a guy around here with a lot of insight both in his day job and his side job. If he's willing to chime in @Kuraki |
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[Last Edit: Kuraki]
[#25]
What's your goal? Is it to be a knifemaker full time and generate income? Semi profitable hobby? Or just something you'd like to do/learn/achieve without spending way too much?
Also where are you? You're more than welcome to come to my shop and build one of your designs in my shop. |
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#26]
Shifting on this possibly. Now looking into drop forging.
Up front cost would be significant, but finishing and production thereafter would be minimal. Would basically get a heat treated product that at worst needs a few minutes of belt time, a blast, and final edge put on it. All I’d have to invest in tooling wise on my end would be a belt sander and drill press. Would outsource the grips. |
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[#27]
There are quite literally 1000's of companies who sell precut blanks. Most offer a selection that would probably be close enough to your design. Some offer custom shapes. I know a couple of guys who make nice stuff. All in the $300-500/ea range. They farm out the blanks and the heat/cyro treat.
You could spend 100's of hours watching youtubers like JohnGrimsmo to get an idea of how much you could do yourself before you ever spend a dime. He does amazing cnc work. |
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A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. IG @jimstagramguns
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[#28]
Originally Posted By AFCarbon15: There are quite literally 1000's of companies who sell precut blanks. Most offer a selection that would probably be close enough to your design. Some offer custom shapes. I know a couple of guys who make nice stuff. All in the $300-500/ea range. They farm out the blanks and the heat/cyro treat. You could spend 100's of hours watching youtubers like JohnGrimsmo to get an idea of how much you could do yourself before you ever spend a dime. He does amazing cnc work. View Quote You can make knife blanks on a haas, a clapped out haas that got dropped. nice knives, but his social media work must pay part of those bills. |
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[#29]
Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Shifting on this possibly. Now looking into drop forging. Up front cost would be significant, but finishing and production thereafter would be minimal. Would basically get a heat treated product that at worst needs a few minutes of belt time, a blast, and final edge put on it. All I’d have to invest in tooling wise on my end would be a belt sander and drill press. Would outsource the grips. View Quote You're going the wrong direction imo. Why compete with CRKT for low margin sales? |
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#30]
Originally Posted By Kuraki: You're going the wrong direction imo. Why compete with CRKT for low margin sales? View Quote There’s no one that I’m aware of making US made drop forge knives on any sort of scale. Even stamped knives are rare. Kabar being the biggest manufacturer of such now that Ontario is defunct. They’re not doing anything I’d be directly competing with anyway. It would take awhile to see ROI due to initial mold and dye design costs, but once that’s achieved it becomes massively profitable in the long haul if they sell. Drop forging would allow for significantly lower prices to move product fast. Drop forging also makes my design concepts cheaper and stronger too, as stuff like guards and pommels can be forged directly into the design instead of machined and attached. |
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[#31]
Originally Posted By xd341: Grimsmo also has a Kern. Which is the equivalent of swatting flys with a B-61. You can make knife blanks on a haas, a clapped out haas that got dropped. nice knives, but his social media work must pay part of those bills. View Quote He has 70k followers on YouTube over like 15 years. It ain't social media. |
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[#32]
Originally Posted By BobbyHill: He has 70k followers on YouTube over like 15 years. It ain't social media. View Quote That's a lot of $700 knives. |
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[#33]
Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: There's no one that I'm aware of making US made drop forge knives on any sort of scale. Even stamped knives are rare. Kabar being the biggest manufacturer of such now that Ontario is defunct. They're not doing anything I'd be directly competing with anyway. It would take awhile to see ROI due to initial mold and dye design costs, but once that's achieved it becomes massively profitable in the long haul if they sell. Drop forging would allow for significantly lower prices to move product fast. Drop forging also makes my design concepts cheaper and stronger too, as stuff like guards and pommels can be forged directly into the design instead of machined and attached. View Quote This seems like a step 2 not a step 1. |
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[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#34]
Originally Posted By xd341: Dies aren't cheap. Forging equipment isnt either. You're going to be fronting some serious capital. This seems like a step 2 not a step 1. View Quote I would be sourcing the work to a domestic forge. Dies run about $1500-$2500, of which I’d need two. One for the forging and one for the cutting dies to trim the flash off. I’d be going closed die and everything I’ve read says size dictates cost and knives would be on the lower end. How long the dies last is a significant question I need to get answered. I know with lower carbon steels they’ll go thousands upon thousands of cycles. Something like 5160 I have no idea and haven’t found any good data on it. If I have to replace $4000 in dies every couple hundred knives it would stop my ambitions in their tracks. Funny thing is when I was searching for a forge, in China they charge the same cost up front but all die maintenance is covered by the forge thereafter. I’d walk away from the idea before I’d use China though. |
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