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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:10:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should have bought it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mid 1970's. Local gun shop. Went in and saw a nice M1 Carbine. Picked it up and noticed an extra switch on the side of it. Well I was 12 at the time. I didn't know what it was until years later after reading an article about the M2. I was already a gun nut then. I would go and check out all if the used guns. I did see my first polymer handgun. The HK Vp70z. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:11:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Is 2000ish I won a "pre-ban" ar off gunbroker for a ridiculous low price. It was from one of the companies that went out of business before the awb went into effect. I picked it up from my local dealer and went straight to the range with some buddies.
The safety only had two positions but the "fire" position was full auto. We shot about 1000 rounds as fast as we could load the magazine. I called the dealer and he told me how illegal it was and said I should turn it in. I took it apart but didn't know what I was looking at in the trigger. I called the regional atf office from a pay phone and the guy there recommended changing the trigger and destroying the old one. I didn't know what I was doing so I took it to a gunsmith. The ATF was waiting when I went to pick it up..... Long story short, they kept the old trigger, I kept the rifle, no dogs were shot. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:14:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll bet there is a good story about the fallout from that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A gun shop owner who is now a congressmen thought he saw a couple and cut up two MP5's, they did get a bunch of police trade ins that they demilled and sold off as parts kits, turns out they were there as transfers. Not sure what he did to make it up or how much it cost him but I know it wasn't cheap. I wish I had the rest of the story, a close friend was working for him and saw the tail end of it happening before anyone could stop him. Pretty sure it was embarrassing enough he didn't want anyone else to know and would probably be pissed at it being told online. He's a dickhead anyhow so I don't really care. That friend was their top optics salesman and wanted to get into gunsmithing so he left on friendly terms for another job, not competition. He had worked for him multiple times over the past decade and was well liked enough he could return whenever he wanted. Only thing was their main perk was getting free gear for selling enough stuff and he had special ordered a 3k scope as the free swag which came in a few weeks after he left. The owner told him to get bent and kept the free scope and sold it. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:16:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Cobray streetsweeper with a 10" barrel
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:17:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I swear I'd shut up and take that home if I found it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A Norinco with thumbhole stock and 3rd hole at a gun show a while back Well, I considered it.......someone bought it before I went back |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:22:33 AM EDT
[#6]
This thread is full of
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:13:05 AM EDT
[#7]
An entire container load of Saiga-12 shotguns were imported by Russian American Armory around 2007.....with 17" barrels.
RAA shipped them to dealers and dealers sold them to end users before I got my hands on one and notified RAA of the issue. I didn't notice the issue either, until I went to cut one to 16" for a pin & weld job. There was much less to cut off than normal........... Tony Rumore Tromix |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:14:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: can't be said enough. so called greatest generation gave us this shit sandwich. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Repeal the NFA. can't be said enough. so called greatest generation gave us this shit sandwich. Most of the Greatest Generation was in their teens in 1934. I seriously doubt they were the problem. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:18:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A pawn shop one time with a stainless steel Mini-14 SBR with a folding stock and a 5.5” compensator, but not permanently attached. Fair price, too. Should have bought it and Form 1 it. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:31:03 AM EDT
[#10]
In the ‘80’s, a buddy bought an XM177 Commando ‘look alike’ at the Ft Worth gun show. It had the long flash suppressor to supposedly get to 16”. He didn’t realize until the first time we took it out to shoot that it had a happy switch. Yep, third hole and all. No idea what he did with it, but he never brought it out again.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:34:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gun shop I worked at had a 177e1 clone in the rack, 10 1/2 barrel, long flash hider, not P&W, in fact just hand tight. Also had none of the third hole parts, but the safety would move past fire. Saw it and told them they took it off the rack and parted it out ASAP. You didn’t happen to be working in Texas at the time? |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:05:17 AM EDT
[#12]
1989, gun shop in Huntington WV (that was subsequently raided by ATF).
Walk in see SGW XM177 lookalike on the wall. Check it out, seems good, purchase. Go to range, shoot, go home, start to clean, realize the faux moderator is not pinned, oops. NO ATF I DON'T STILL HAVE IT! 
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:11:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Was at the range about 12-15 years ago when those GSG MP5s were all the rage. There were 2 models 16in with a PDW stock and a pistol.
Anyway, guy at the rage had an SBR, short barrel, PDW stock. At a lull in the shooting, I wander over and ask how long his tax stamp took to come back cuz I was considering a class 3. “Tax stamp?” Record scratch. I explain to him what the rules are for short barreled rifles and that he could potentially get in a lot of trouble for putting a rifle stock on a pistol. He says “Ok. Thanks for letting me know.” and goes back to shooting. I hope one day to have the same level of chill as that man. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:25:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Saw a non pinned/welded 14.5 M4 upper on a CAR stocked lower at a GS. Guy manning the table pulled the it's legal routine with me.
After that I don't even bother saying anything. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:44:42 AM EDT
[#15]
When I bought my first handgun (a Ruger P90) I remember poking around Army/Navy in Whitehall while I was waiting. I remember very clearly picking up a select-fire M4 off the rack (bottom shelf, no less) with an undermount shotgun. I wouldn't have known the difference back then between an M4 and a 4gery, or an M26 and a Masterkey. But it definitely had a third hole drilled, and it definitely had positive engagement on the selector in that position. The guy there even tried to tell me it was good for turkey hunting.
It was $1500. Man, what I wouldn't do to have that opportunity again. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:45:22 AM EDT
[#16]
ive seen gun shops posts stuff on FB all the time thats NFA violations, the funny part is they sell suppressors and SBR's.
They will get something in like Vector, CZ scorpion pistol or whatever. Then they take accessories they have in store and try to deck it out and make it look cool. Almost always ends with a VFG on a pistol. Several years ago at knob creek I saw a dude with a table selling lightning links. probably an agent. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:48:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Junior G Man Badge thread
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:49:09 AM EDT
[#18]
I dont have enough innternet posts to be an expert on everything guns.
That’s why I don’t believe we have all these heroes in GD. Now, if you have over 50k posts I may believe you. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:49:53 AM EDT
[#19]
No...?
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:52:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Not technically an NFA violation without the DIAS... But I found an AR15 at a gun store that had all M16 parts, all it needed was a drop in sear to be rock and roll.
Was a POS though. Looked like it had been spray painted black or something. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:57:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used to see tons of them at gun shows. Not any of my business. You know there had to be ATF at those shows too.  Must have been looking for bigger fish.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:05:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Man y’all are the equivalent of a shitty hoa
Mind your fucking business |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:09:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Years ago i found a ar57 in a shop. 10-12" ar57 / 5.7 upper that takes p-90 mags, the upper was on a standard ar15 lower with m4 collapsible stock. Dude assured me it was legal, and all i needed to buy it was $500, a 4473 and done, haul it out. Have to pay that $200 fed tax, right? He looks confused, no just pay 6% ky state tax, thats it. Simply refused to believe it was somehow special / needed special paperwork etc to be set up with a 12" barrel. Fine whatever, good luck. Then a few days ago im in my favorite pawn shop, and i basically find this. Looks exactly like this, except its a anderson lower with 12.5" upper, with folding rear sight. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92687/20230909_112901_jpg-2950313.JPG Except its got a m4 collapsible stock on it.  I take it to the owner, tell him im trying to save him some legal issues, and this isnt legal. He thanks me and tells me hes having trouble understanding the nfa, braces, whats ok, whats not, whats legal, whats not. I tell him i understand, and most cops or atf agents dont know either. Lol He asks, so, How do i make it legal ? I separated the upper and lower, told him " all legal ",  Just dont assemble it again, sell them as separate assemblies, all fine. He thanks me, and says, i want it gone. $300 its yours. Me... I just spent $1500 on transmission work yesterday and tapped out right now. All iv got on me is $10 bucks, can i lay it away for $10? Be a nice addition to my collection. He says SURE ! I say thanks, ill try and get it off layaway fast. He says no hurry, take as long as you need, hell take a year, or two if you want, i dont care, as kong as you pay somethingeach month. He even let me take home the bolt carrier group, charging handle and sling for safe keeping.  Cool post fedboy |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:09:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As opposed to what? The tender loving embrace that the government will give you? Body cavity searches, rights lost, fines you can never hope to pay? Hey, sometimes a simple heads up is cool, you ever flash your high beams at a car with a cop in your rear view ? This is simple. In the OP's tale, he found 2 different "dealers", one a gun shop and the other a pawn shop with guns. Both of these entities are FFL's. And they have firearms for sale that are in an NFA state of build. Yet they don't know that they are NFA items? This works for us. In our favor. If the laws are so complex, so arcane and capricious that government licensed gun dealers don't understand them well enough to comply, that creates an excellent defense for the common man. Same goes for glock switches in the hood. We want this. Ignorance of stupid laws, outright defiance of stupid laws, this is the way. This is the way that the people who had enough of the govts bullshit about weed laws won. This is our way to win. Going in and educating and encouraging FFL's to comply, yeah, that doesn't sound like a very good strategy to win our freedoms to me. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:17:41 AM EDT
[#25]
can I buy that 57 upper?
LOL Red |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:20:34 AM EDT
[#26]
At least 20 years ago at Knob Creek I saw full-auto AK-47 receiver flats for sale cash and carry. 'merica!
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:36:52 AM EDT
[#27]
I have two Masters' Degrees from The School of Hard Knocks. One is STFU about things that don't concern you. The other is Don't be a fucking NARC. When >30 round mags were Machine Guns by statute in OH, A well known and respected shop who deals in NFA stuff wanted to sell me a factory new PS90 rifle with 50 round mags. I told counter goon that it was verboten. He said since it's factory, it's cool. Yeah, right.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:47:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A couple of years ago at a local gun shop in King George, VA. They had barrels with "police trade in" pump shotguns, every one of which was under an 18" barrel. I wiped the one I pulled out of the barrel free of my fingerprints and put it back. They must have had 15-20 of them. Good luck to the future buyers! My brother just ran across something like that. Dude swore up and down that it was legal for him to sell them like that, but anyone buying them would have to remove the stock or some shit like that to maintain legality. I'll have to ask him exactly what the guy said, but it sounded a lot like an ATF sting. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:00:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is full of https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/416/725/for_gallery_v2/b05ea0d6.jpg?1579720414 Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is full of https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/416/725/for_gallery_v2/b05ea0d6.jpg?1579720414 How do you figure telling gunshops that they have illegal firearms is being a buddy fucker?  tHe nFa iS uNcOnStItUtIoNaL if it was, you'd think it'd have been struck down sometime in the last 90 years *shrug* Quoted: My brother just ran across something like that. Dude swore up and down that it was legal for him to sell them like that, but anyone buying them would have to remove the stock or some shit like that to maintain legality. I'll have to ask him exactly what the guy said, but it sounded a lot like an ATF sting. I think they were legitimately too dumb to know. It wasn't the first wtf moment in that gunshop. After the bulk unregistered SBS incident I never stepped foot in there again. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:13:14 AM EDT
[#30]
A guy had some business cards at a gun show that were laser cut in steel, they were unmistakable lightning links if you bent them apart at the tabs. I saw a few people grab a handful, some were sneaky about it too.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:15:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have two Masters' Degrees from The School of Hard Knocks. One is STFU about things that don't concern you. The other is Don't be a fucking NARC. When >30 round mags were Machine Guns by statute in OH, A well known and respected shop who deals in NFA stuff wanted to sell me a factory new PS90 rifle with 50 round mags. I told counter goon that it was verboten. He said since it's factory, it's cool. Yeah, right. I had a local shop sell me a C93 with two 40 round mags before that law got corrected. Didn't say shit, but I did let my brother know, as he bought one, too. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:19:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you figure telling gunshops that they have illegal firearms is being a buddy fucker? tHe nFa iS uNcOnStItUtIoNaL if it was, you'd think it'd have been struck down sometime in the last 90 years *shrug* I think they were legitimately too dumb to know. It wasn't the first wtf moment in that gunshop. After the bulk unregistered SBS incident I never stepped foot in there again. Very possible. I've seen a lot of "common sense" violations, like the > 30 round mag thing above. Stuff that really shouldn't be an issue and the gun store can't know everything. The SBS guy got really squirrly when asked about them. I think he probably had an inkling but was hoping no one would ask. Kind of a dangerous game for him. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:19:49 AM EDT
[#33]
One of the first ARs I bought was an Eagle Arms M4A1C and the flash hider/barrel extension wasnt pinned/soldered on. QC issue, but made it an unregistered SBR for sure.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:38:26 AM EDT
[#34]
There are some good stories here. Nobody is snitching. Lighten up Francis'sssss
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:41:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man y’all are the equivalent of a shitty hoa Mind your fucking business  Who has posted in this thread that went to "The Man"? Also, be careful badmouthing HOAs. Got an account warning for saying someone was "The President of the HOA"
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:46:41 AM EDT
[#36]
At a shop ? no . but tons of SBR's at the gun show over here. No one cares. Living in SE PA I have seen TONS of illegal sales at shops and gun shows though usually to NY and NJ residents. the best one was a young guy buying 2 AR's and and shockwave and a bunch of 30 round mags and ammo his address on his ID was Brooklyn NY LOL I have no problem with it ( Fuck NY ) but i hope he didn't get pulled over with it in NJ OR NY or he will be in prison for the next 5 years. also have seen a bunch of BLATANT straw purchases ( I live in philly ) so this is common around here but again i couldn't care less .. also true story .. I grew up in NJ
 and convinced had a family member buy me a 10/22 at a Walmart in PA when i was 16 despite the fact they did not have the NJ FID permit . this was 15 years ago though. still have the rifle too .
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:54:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Anybody posted up the reason why shotguns are 18” and rifles are 16”
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:14:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, this site has always been full of snitches and bitches, but the know-it-all busybodies are really over the top. It sounds like most of the ‘snitches’ are simply fellow gun owners trying to keep a like minded individual from getting but trapped by ATF. I haven’t seen a single person suggest snitching or similar.. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:20:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody posted up the reason why shotguns are 18” and rifles are 16” IIRC rifles were originally 18 but some kind of widely popular .22 was shorter so they quickly changed it. Oh to live in a time when the government was simply incompetent rather than malicious. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:21:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a bunch of "Hi-caps" out there for the 10/22. Am I missing something? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A 10/22 with a giggle switch sounds like a lot of fun, but a lack of larger magazines would be pretty frustrating. There's a bunch of "Hi-caps" out there for the 10/22. Am I missing something? If there were bigger mags at the time, I imagine there would be many more transferables today. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:26:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody posted up the reason why shotguns are 18” and rifles are 16” Dumb law. Dumb govt sales. Dumb law amended to 16". |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:28:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I did I would shut my fucking mouth. This is the correct answer. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:31:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cobray streetsweeper with a 10" barrel Like this? 
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:32:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dumb law. Dumb govt sales. Dumb law amended to 16". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anybody posted up the reason why shotguns are 18" and rifles are 16" Dumb law. Dumb govt sales. Dumb law amended to 16". Then .22 rimfires were excepted at 16". Then M1 carbines flooded the market. They were not excepted. The government changed the rule to 16" for all rifles to save face. The length alterations begin around 5:30  Why Are Short Barreled Rifles Actually Regulated in the US? |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:34:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC rifles were originally 18 but some kind of widely popular .22 was shorter so they quickly changed it. Oh to live in a time when the government was simply incompetent rather than malicious. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anybody posted up the reason why shotguns are 18” and rifles are 16” IIRC rifles were originally 18 but some kind of widely popular .22 was shorter so they quickly changed it. Oh to live in a time when the government was simply incompetent rather than malicious. Shortened to allow sutplus sales of m1 carbines. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:39:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC rifles were originally 18 but some kind of widely popular .22 was shorter so they quickly changed it. Oh to live in a time when the government was simply incompetent rather than malicious. M1 Carbine |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:45:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shortened to allow sutplus sales of m1 carbines. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anybody posted up the reason why shotguns are 18” and rifles are 16” IIRC rifles were originally 18 but some kind of widely popular .22 was shorter so they quickly changed it. Oh to live in a time when the government was simply incompetent rather than malicious. Shortened to allow sutplus sales of m1 carbines. Law changed after many M1 carbines released from DCM. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At about the same time as I was wondering why my M-11/9 didn't work, one of the other local shops got a shipment of Chinese AKs in that had an underfolding stock as well as a wood stock-- and a rivet through the third pin hole. Didn't take long for the locals to figure out that the wood stock would come off and the folder would then function-- this was bad enough in the early days of the Clinton ban, but then ATF decided that the rivet was insufficient and they were all machine guns (after approving their import) and demanded the shop return all the guns they still had in inventory AND that they had already sold. No recompense offered, give them up or draw felony charges. That was a soup sandwich. I nearly bought one myself-- if you guys ever run into one, remember that ATF still lists them as contraband. And screw the BATFE. And a few years later I found myself a partner in that gunshop for a few years. I thought I had had some assholes for bosses-- then I started working for myself-- Both Norinco and Izhmash have done this and slipped them into the US About 10-15 years back a big batch of Saigas made it here with both the third pin hole and the auto sear slot in the lower rail. Izhmash had just installed rivets into the third pin holes and left out the third pin and auto FCG. I guess Izhmash didn't understand the complexity of "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" either Someone posted a pic of theirs on Akfiles and asked "hey guys what's this about?" Not long after the ATF tracked down the sales and demanded that everyone who purchased one return it. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:03:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was at the range about 12-15 years ago when those GSG MP5s were all the rage. There were 2 models 16in with a PDW stock and a pistol. Anyway, guy at the rage had an SBR, short barrel, PDW stock. At a lull in the shooting, I wander over and ask how long his tax stamp took to come back cuz I was considering a class 3. “Tax stamp?” Record scratch. I explain to him what the rules are for short barreled rifles and that he could potentially get in a lot of trouble for putting a rifle stock on a pistol. He says “Ok. Thanks for letting me know.” and goes back to shooting. I hope one day to have the same level of chill as that man. I had an identical experience at a range here in WA. Guy with his two kids shooting a full stocked MP5 with the tri lug and all. SBRs weren't legal yet in WA. I went over and said hello, nice MP5 - I had never seen one myself so I wanted to look up close. He's super excited, he says he always wanted one. I was like, oh I figured you were a cop, because SBRs aren't legal in WA so I assumed that was a duty gun. "No I'm not a cop and what's an SBR? I just bought this from a guy in Seattle" So now I feel like an asshole and briefly explain the NFA to him and said, might want to be careful where you shoot that thing - though nobody at the range had even batted an eye at this guy and I was the only asshole who noticed. He was packed up and gone within 5 minutes... I ruined the guy's day with his kids, but not as bad as some just knowledgable enough cop or ATF guy would have. Imo there are tons and tons and tons of unregistered SBRs in this country (and I dont mean braces), many owned by people who have no idea at all, and it's complete bullshit that this rule still stands. The ATF would never admit it but they are likely VERY common, especially with the ease of ordering complete uppers online for years. That was almost 15 years ago... today I wouldn't say shit to the guy |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:08:36 PM EDT
[#50]
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