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Originally Posted By ske714: I don't agree at all. It's well proven and documented that LS has not and will not result in more accidents. If it did, it simply would not exist. Nobody anywhere ever made a decision that two people dying is okay, but four is too many. That's just silly. Daytime-only makes perfect sense because flying at night is much more difficult with much higher risk, and requires specific training that sport pilots do not have. There are real flight safety reasons. Having people in the back seat adds no additional risk to safety. I don't disagree with you at all. LS is inherently safe. Ultimately though people in the FAA make decisions based on risks and risk profiles. Old guys moving to LS is thing. For example over the weekend one old guy I know who hasn't flown for 3 years is now going to get his 172 annualed. He is in a wheelchair but has a driver's license and can sort of control the pedals. That dude is gonna hop in and ride. He couldn't even get BasicMed. Someone at the FAA is thinking about this guy when they set the rules. If you want to fill the seats get more training(PPL) and get a medical(BasicMed). Personally if his family wants to hop in I don't care. |
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Originally Posted By stillerfan: I don't disagree with you at all. LS is inherently safe. Ultimately though people in the FAA make decisions based on risks and risk profiles. Old guys moving to LS is thing. For example over the weekend one old guy I know who hasn't flown for 3 years is now going to get his 172 annualed. He is in a wheelchair but has a driver's license and can sort of control the pedals. That dude is gonna hop in and ride. He couldn't even get BasicMed. Someone at the FAA is thinking about this guy when they set the rules. If you want to fill the seats get more training(PPL) and get a medical(BasicMed). Personally if his family wants to hop in I don't care. Originally Posted By stillerfan: Originally Posted By ske714: I don't agree at all. It's well proven and documented that LS has not and will not result in more accidents. If it did, it simply would not exist. Nobody anywhere ever made a decision that two people dying is okay, but four is too many. That's just silly. Daytime-only makes perfect sense because flying at night is much more difficult with much higher risk, and requires specific training that sport pilots do not have. There are real flight safety reasons. Having people in the back seat adds no additional risk to safety. I don't disagree with you at all. LS is inherently safe. Ultimately though people in the FAA make decisions based on risks and risk profiles. Old guys moving to LS is thing. For example over the weekend one old guy I know who hasn't flown for 3 years is now going to get his 172 annualed. He is in a wheelchair but has a driver's license and can sort of control the pedals. That dude is gonna hop in and ride. He couldn't even get BasicMed. Someone at the FAA is thinking about this guy when they set the rules. If you want to fill the seats get more training(PPL) and get a medical(BasicMed). Personally if his family wants to hop in I don't care. IMO, the rule is for the sake of the AME's. They did a lot of hand wringing over LS and basic med. It could be just to keep "sport" in Sport Pilot". It's one of the few remaining things separating it from Private Pilots. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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It is not just about getting a medical. I fly Basic Med. I could probably get a first class but would have some hoops to jump through and I don't want to risk getting denied and then never flying again. So Basic Med allows me almost everything a third class can do. If you have a heart attack, stroke or mental issue you would need to get an SI or essentially a third class again. Say you have a mild heart attack or a stroke and you recover. Now you can just go Sport Pilot and limit to one passenger. I am hoping although probably unlikely my 172 will get more valuable and Champs will get cheaper when all the guys who were flying Champs to use DL medical decide to "upgrade" to a 172. |
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Originally Posted By Meathook: It is not just about getting a medical. I fly Basic Med. I could probably get a first class but would have some hoops to jump through and I don't want to risk getting denied and then never flying again. So Basic Med allows me almost everything a third class can do. If you have a heart attack, stroke or mental issue you would need to get an SI or essentially a third class again. Say you have a mild heart attack or a stroke and you recover. Now you can just go Sport Pilot and limit to one passenger. I am hoping although probably unlikely my 172 will get more valuable and Champs will get cheaper when all the guys who were flying Champs to use DL medical decide to "upgrade" to a 172. IMO, there will probably be a short term price spike in newly-eligable aircraft, but I think it will fall off pretty quick. There will be more buyers this year, but once the new demand is satisfied, the number of people shopping won't be all that much greater than it has been. I would guess that it's a pretty stable market. As for Champs, I don't know how much cheaper they could really get. Even a drop of 20% wouldn't amount to much in dollars. Average price now is probably only around 25k. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: IMO, there will probably be a short term price spike in newly-eligable aircraft, but I think it will fall off pretty quick. There will be more buyers this year, but once the new demand is satisfied, the number of people shopping won't be all that much greater than it has been. I would guess that it's a pretty stable market. As for Champs, I don't know how much cheaper they could really get. Even a drop of 20% wouldn't amount to much in dollars. Average price now is probably only around 25k. Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Meathook: It is not just about getting a medical. I fly Basic Med. I could probably get a first class but would have some hoops to jump through and I don't want to risk getting denied and then never flying again. So Basic Med allows me almost everything a third class can do. If you have a heart attack, stroke or mental issue you would need to get an SI or essentially a third class again. Say you have a mild heart attack or a stroke and you recover. Now you can just go Sport Pilot and limit to one passenger. I am hoping although probably unlikely my 172 will get more valuable and Champs will get cheaper when all the guys who were flying Champs to use DL medical decide to "upgrade" to a 172. IMO, there will probably be a short term price spike in newly-eligable aircraft, but I think it will fall off pretty quick. There will be more buyers this year, but once the new demand is satisfied, the number of people shopping won't be all that much greater than it has been. I would guess that it's a pretty stable market. As for Champs, I don't know how much cheaper they could really get. Even a drop of 20% wouldn't amount to much in dollars. Average price now is probably only around 25k. I would like a Champ. |
"According to Argonne National Laboratory, it takes 100 pounds of battery in an EV to go a distance achieved by only one pound of gasoline in an ICE vehicle"
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Originally Posted By _DR: I would like a Champ. Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Meathook: It is not just about getting a medical. I fly Basic Med. I could probably get a first class but would have some hoops to jump through and I don't want to risk getting denied and then never flying again. So Basic Med allows me almost everything a third class can do. If you have a heart attack, stroke or mental issue you would need to get an SI or essentially a third class again. Say you have a mild heart attack or a stroke and you recover. Now you can just go Sport Pilot and limit to one passenger. I am hoping although probably unlikely my 172 will get more valuable and Champs will get cheaper when all the guys who were flying Champs to use DL medical decide to "upgrade" to a 172. IMO, there will probably be a short term price spike in newly-eligable aircraft, but I think it will fall off pretty quick. There will be more buyers this year, but once the new demand is satisfied, the number of people shopping won't be all that much greater than it has been. I would guess that it's a pretty stable market. As for Champs, I don't know how much cheaper they could really get. Even a drop of 20% wouldn't amount to much in dollars. Average price now is probably only around 25k. I would like a Champ. There's plenty of them out there. I see them come up for sale all the time. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: Yes, they pretty much DID rewrite the entire part. Light sport never allowed complex or high performance, either. Now it does. Two people made sense when there was only two seats and a weight restriction. What additional skill is required to fly with four people in a plane vs. two? What additional training is required? "They never did allow it" is not the answer, because they changed almost everything else. Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Rbass: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: So 4 seaters and 4 passengers are ok now? No, 4 seats, 2 souls. That part makes zero sense to me. I would like to know the reasoning. Maybe they just wanted to open up cargo carrying ability But why does it matter whether you have one passenger or three? If they let you have 4 seats, why can't you put people in them? It has to be to simply get more airplane types usable under the rules, like 172's and such. As in, they still don't want to allow any more than one passenger for sport pilots, but they know there needs to be more aircraft available. Allowing current four seat aircraft that qualify is an instant way to get more airplanes flying under these rules. But why? You haven't answered the question. He doesn't need to answer the question. FAA Sport pilot certificate rules have never allowed more than 1 passenger for sport pilot. They modified the rules, they didn't rewrite the entire part. They just removed the weight restriction, to complexity restriction and set max stall speeds. Yes, they pretty much DID rewrite the entire part. Light sport never allowed complex or high performance, either. Now it does. Two people made sense when there was only two seats and a weight restriction. What additional skill is required to fly with four people in a plane vs. two? What additional training is required? "They never did allow it" is not the answer, because they changed almost everything else. New skill: performing a weight and balance. I'm more serious than not. |
Keep your powder dry, and watch your back trail.
I'm watching my back trail.
I'm watching my back trail.
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Originally Posted By AeroE: New skill: performing a weight and balance. I'm more serious than not. Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Rbass: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: So 4 seaters and 4 passengers are ok now? No, 4 seats, 2 souls. That part makes zero sense to me. I would like to know the reasoning. Maybe they just wanted to open up cargo carrying ability But why does it matter whether you have one passenger or three? If they let you have 4 seats, why can't you put people in them? It has to be to simply get more airplane types usable under the rules, like 172's and such. As in, they still don't want to allow any more than one passenger for sport pilots, but they know there needs to be more aircraft available. Allowing current four seat aircraft that qualify is an instant way to get more airplanes flying under these rules. But why? You haven't answered the question. He doesn't need to answer the question. FAA Sport pilot certificate rules have never allowed more than 1 passenger for sport pilot. They modified the rules, they didn't rewrite the entire part. They just removed the weight restriction, to complexity restriction and set max stall speeds. Yes, they pretty much DID rewrite the entire part. Light sport never allowed complex or high performance, either. Now it does. Two people made sense when there was only two seats and a weight restriction. What additional skill is required to fly with four people in a plane vs. two? What additional training is required? "They never did allow it" is not the answer, because they changed almost everything else. New skill: performing a weight and balance. I'm more serious than not. Lol. There's an app for that. 
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9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
 Here's the trap, if the FAA decides to enforce paragraph (b)(4), especially if the pilot had special issuance medical certificates prior:I have never heard of an action against a glider or balloon pilot over the last five decades. They are rare at worst and non existent at best. Disqualifying Conditions https://www.faa.gov/faq/what-medical-conditions-does-faa-consider-disqualifying-0 I haven't looked at this list for at least two years. I am no longer disqualified. I'm tempted to talk to an AME about another class 2 medical. The next obstacle is insurance companies and their policy toward "old" pilots. |
Keep your powder dry, and watch your back trail.
I'm watching my back trail.
I'm watching my back trail.
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Originally Posted By AeroE: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/348/1000001822-3599822.pngHere's the trap, if the FAA decides to enforce paragraph (b)(4), especially if the pilot had special issuance medical certificates prior: I have never heard of an action against a glider or balloon pilot over the last five decades. They are rare at worst and non existent at best. Yep, but then again, there is a counter argument. How would you know the affliction renders you unsafe to fly if no one tells you you are unsafe to drive? I think the point of being able to use your DL is that if you're safe to drive a car, you ARE safe to fly LS. The disqualifying conditions list is for an FAA medical, not flying light sport. A suggestion - talk to the AOPA medical people about your class 2. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: Yep, but then again, there is a counter argument. How would you know the affliction renders you unsafe to fly if no one tells you you are unsafe to drive? I think the point of being able to use your DL is that if you're safe to drive a car, you ARE safe to fly LS. The disqualifying conditions list is for an FAA medical, not flying light sport. A suggestion - talk to the AOPA medical people about your class 2. Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By AeroE: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/348/1000001822-3599822.pngHere's the trap, if the FAA decides to enforce paragraph (b)(4), especially if the pilot had special issuance medical certificates prior: I have never heard of an action against a glider or balloon pilot over the last five decades. They are rare at worst and non existent at best. Yep, but then again, there is a counter argument. How would you know the affliction renders you unsafe to fly if no one tells you you are unsafe to drive? I think the point of being able to use your DL is that if you're safe to drive a car, you ARE safe to fly LS. The disqualifying conditions list is for an FAA medical, not flying light sport. A suggestion - talk to the AOPA medical people about your class 2. I did a quick review of part 61 and part 67. Part 61 references the list above, but does not specifically apply it to Sport Pilot, and Sport Pilot requirements are handled separately in a different paragraph. Part 67 doesn't address Sport Pilot as far as I read. I haven't looked at any of this for a while, so I don't have an idea about revisions over many years. Next obstacle is my wife. We can afford to own an aeroplane, I'll probably stick to another antique or classic, and I might need to wait for a CD to mature in December. There's also a spot in a local RV-12, but I'm not a fan of clambering over the leading edge to enter and exit. |
Keep your powder dry, and watch your back trail.
I'm watching my back trail.
I'm watching my back trail.
| So what's the poison pill of this? Never failed a med, keep a CDL, have my PPL, stopped flying due to not wanting to rent, no parking/hangar space local especially for a fabric aircraft. Last time I was at a local airport, still had boats/campers with a waiting list. |