Federal Court Strikes Down NFA Registration on "untaxed" firearms (Page 125 of 195)
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Originally Posted By Coati: When I pulled up the case in PACER, it was labeled "closed." There is nothing pending. It is not pending litigation unless they file an appeal. Pending litigation is factually false. It is a bizarre way of characterizing it that is better understood in the context those are the magic words officials say when you're not going to get anything out of them. How about these? Brown v. ATF (E.D. Missouri, 8th Circuit) Roberts v. ATF (E.D. Kentucky, 6th Circuit) |
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: Unless, as stated above, he's not referring specifically to the SSF vs ATF case. There are other pending cases. Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By Coati: Originally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By Zap_Rowsdower: Pending litigation??? Fuck this guy!. There is no pending litigation. The court case is settled, and the DOJ has not filed an appeal to date. When I pulled up the case in PACER, it was labeled "closed." There is nothing pending. It is not pending litigation unless they file an appeal. It is a bizarre way of characterizing it that is better understood in the context those are the magic words officials say when you're not going to get anything out of them. It's clear from context what he was referring to. No one thinks eforms is being changed due to the actually pending litigation with no injunction. Officials are very adept at using language where you know damn well what they're saying, but could be tortured to mean something else if they need to CYA. |
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: First FTF private suppressor transaction conducted an hour ago with a fellow GOA member and FL resident. https://media3.giphy.com/media/w370Abr1SDvalxR6vs/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cebcmj67tfra0emicyjf0jghxft0nvq8m25zf2aad&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g Did you sell it to him out of your trunk?  I remember buying those battle packs from you back in the day in Mississippi. Good times (back when Nolo was just a wee lad in law school having drinks at my house 
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What have the Romans ever done for us?
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Originally Posted By HKH: Tell that to TN FFLs There are some attorneys who would love to see that ATF messaging. Local field office is not far away, I might go ask.
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Panem et Circenses
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. - Churchill
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. - Churchill
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Originally Posted By HKH: Did you sell it to him out of your trunk? I remember buying those battle packs from you back in the day in Mississippi. Good times (back when Nolo was just a wee lad in law school having drinks at my house Originally Posted By HKH: Originally Posted By Cypher214: First FTF private suppressor transaction conducted an hour ago with a fellow GOA member and FL resident. https://media3.giphy.com/media/w370Abr1SDvalxR6vs/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cebcmj67tfra0emicyjf0jghxft0nvq8m25zf2aad&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g Did you sell it to him out of your trunk? I remember buying those battle packs from you back in the day in Mississippi. Good times (back when Nolo was just a wee lad in law school having drinks at my house
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Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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So, anyone who knows more about this stuff...from what I can see these are the current cases relating to this and their respective initial filing dates: Silencer Shop Foundation v ATF - (5th circuit) July 4, 2025 Brown v ATF - (8th circuit) August 1, 2025 Roberts v ATF - (6th circuit) February 26, 2026 Is it reasonable to expect these cases to take about the same amount of time to get a resolution or does SSF v ATF have a chance to expedite a favorable decision in other 2A friendly circuits? If this injunction is allowed to run out the full 60 days (October 5th, I believe) will we expect to possibly see motion then in other cases or a 14A challenge by GOA et al? ETA: I know SSF v ATF is a district court ruling, but it's in the 5th circuit. |
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Originally Posted By st33ve0: So, anyone who knows more about this stuff...from what I can see these are the current cases relating to this and their respective initial filing dates: Silencer Shop Foundation v ATF - (5th circuit) July 4, 2025 Brown v ATF - (8th circuit) August 1, 2025 Roberts v ATF - (6th circuit) February 26, 2026 Is it reasonable to expect these cases to take about the same amount of time to get a resolution or does SSF v ATF have a chance to expedite a favorable decision in other 2A friendly circuits? If this injunction is allowed to run out the full 60 days (October 5th, I believe) will we expect to possibly see motion then in other cases or a 14A challenge by GOA et al? ETA: I know SSF v ATF is a district court ruling, but it's in the 5th circuit. Plaintiffs in both Brown and Roberts have now cited the Texas ruling. Hopefully that expedites things, but judges are fickle beasts so who knows. |
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Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: nra members chose and supported the corrupt nra. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: Originally Posted By Lone_Eagle: Originally Posted By willi3d: What does the NRA have that's worth the GOA spending any money on? Members. Grandfather them all in, and merge the two orgs. Fire all the C Suite people. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. Sometimes the stupid in this place is so strong it burns. |
Not fly enough to be halal....
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Originally Posted By scuba_steve: Certainly could have impacted items not on display, and I can see why owners of items on loan may have wanted to retrieve them when the NRA announced restructuring plans and a plan to move to Texas, but I haven't noticed much impact to the items on display. BTW, I don't believe member rongorongo was ever the director. Phil Schreier was, who passed away last year. I believe rongo was a senior curator. And also very critical of Phil and how the artifacts were being maintained after rongo was terminated, but there are two sides to every story. That said, I would not be surprised if the collection was not being maintained as well as it was when they had a larger staff. That department was likely one of the first to see cuts. I keep recommending friends take the time to visit the museum while it is still there, because I would not be surprised to see it close. You are right, he was a curator, it's been a number of years. |
| My dealer (always honest and straightforward with me) said they are expecting some guidance tomorrow from their IOI as the IOI said they will have something by EOD Wednesday. I don’t know what the value of that statement is and how much a random IOI really knows, but I thought I would throw that into the pile here. |
"Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense" -UCMJ ART. 125
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Originally Posted By MaxSpeed74: Wrong. We are forced to be NRA members so our ranges and clubs can purchase insurance. Originally Posted By MaxSpeed74: Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: nra members chose and supported the corrupt nra. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. We are forced to be NRA members so our ranges and clubs can purchase insurance. Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. |
I can’t stand it to think my life is going so fast and I’m not really living it.
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Originally Posted By Dissident: Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. Originally Posted By Dissident: Originally Posted By MaxSpeed74: Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: nra members chose and supported the corrupt nra. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. We are forced to be NRA members so our ranges and clubs can purchase insurance. Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. Show me where the NRA sells insurance for ranges. |
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Originally Posted By shadycoh: maybe the insurance companies require member of the club also be NRA members. or they will not insure them Originally Posted By shadycoh: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Show me where the NRA sells insurance for ranges. maybe the insurance companies require member of the club also be NRA members. or they will not insure them Not a thing anymore |
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: I'll buy them back from you for whatever you paid. It was like 25 bucks for South African 762 I accidentally ended up with one pack of that hot as shit +p+++++ Hirtenberger artic 9mm My mp5 F gun ate that like m&ms |
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Originally Posted By 20andOUT: My dealer (always honest and straightforward with me) said they are expecting some guidance tomorrow from their IOI as the IOI said they will have something by EOD Wednesday. I don’t know what the value of that statement is and how much a random IOI really knows, but I thought I would throw that into the pile here. Chomping at the bit here. The suspense is killing me. I hope they're right. 
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Originally Posted By Zap_Rowsdower: Pending litigation??? Fuck this guy!. There is no pending litigation. The court case is settled, and the DOJ has not filed an appeal to date. That’s just legal speak for not committing to anything at the present time. Saying they haven’t filed an appeal “to date” means just that. They haven’t filed until October 5 to file an appeal if they decide to. |
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Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Show me where the NRA sells insurance for ranges. Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Originally Posted By Dissident: Originally Posted By MaxSpeed74: Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: nra members chose and supported the corrupt nra. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. We are forced to be NRA members so our ranges and clubs can purchase insurance. Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. Show me where the NRA sells insurance for ranges. I don't know what to tell you. I will bring it up with them at renewal as I would love to not have to be a NRA member. |
I can’t stand it to think my life is going so fast and I’m not really living it.
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Originally Posted By MannyRibera: And to KY's as well. Some ass told me on the phone that the ruling was a very small ruling that only allowed a small amount of people only in the state of Texas. Cunt Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Originally Posted By HKH: Tell that to TN FFLs And to KY's as well. Some ass told me on the phone that the ruling was a very small ruling that only allowed a small amount of people only in the state of Texas. Cunt |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By HKH: It was like 25 bucks for South African 762 I accidentally ended up with one pack of that hot as shit +p+++++ Hirtenberger artic 9mm My mp5 F gun ate that like m&ms Originally Posted By HKH: Originally Posted By Cypher214: I'll buy them back from you for whatever you paid. It was like 25 bucks for South African 762 I accidentally ended up with one pack of that hot as shit +p+++++ Hirtenberger artic 9mm My mp5 F gun ate that like m&ms |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By wherewildthingsare: It does. In the event of a judicial reversal, there will be no easy, legal off-ramp for the (likely thousands of) individuals in violation of the NFA. Originally Posted By wherewildthingsare: Originally Posted By thesquidliest: Originally Posted By wherewildthingsare:
This sounds ominous. It does. In the event of a judicial reversal, there will be no easy, legal off-ramp for the (likely thousands of) individuals in violation of the NFA. Ominous as in the DOJ left it open as to filing an appeal....I guess? Not worried about it, myself. As for an "off-ramp" should the DOJ appeal this and win at the appellate level, they would have already surmised the other side would ask for and probably get, a stay on THAT action as GOA, PSA SS Et:al appeals THAT decision. This won't be done done until the USSC sees it and takes action. Until then, everybody involved is going to be in a holding pattern. Should the courts ultimately rule against the people, those who have already purchased suppressors on 4473's are already on record. Most likely the ATF would give people a grace period to register these on a form 4 or they come get them. Been done before. Easy enough to do an Eform4 and done. Simple. Of course they could go the other way. Just my take. God Bless |
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Originally Posted By ODA_564:
I hypothesized that might happen a few pages back and was told "nah". ATF has no idea who is a plaintiff they are enjoined from enforcing the enjoined laws against. Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Accepting the form could be seen as a violation of the injunction against a covered party. No acceptance means "we ain't touching that" and guidance is imminent. ATF has no idea who is a plaintiff they are enjoined from enforcing the enjoined laws against. |
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Originally Posted By smokinghole:
Every rumor of guidance coming “by tomorrow” is basically the same as the “free beer tomorrow” signs bars have. |
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
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Originally Posted By Dissident: I don't know what to tell you. I will bring it up with them at renewal as I would love to not have to be a NRA member. Originally Posted By Dissident: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Originally Posted By Dissident: Originally Posted By MaxSpeed74: Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: nra members chose and supported the corrupt nra. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. We are forced to be NRA members so our ranges and clubs can purchase insurance. Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. Show me where the NRA sells insurance for ranges. I don't know what to tell you. I will bring it up with them at renewal as I would love to not have to be a NRA member. The NRA hasn't sold range insurance since around 2018 I believe. As a member of the club you should be entitled to know who the insurer is, I wouldn't be confrontational, just ask them who the current insurer is and go from there. ETA: I wouldn't say it's impossible I'm wrong, they may have started back up, but I can't find any reference about them currently offering anything. We had the same argument at our club when the board informed the membership that there was no such thing as NRA insurance anymore and with that the resistance to us dropping the requirement went away. I could see Fudd's fighting this and using the lie about insurance to force the membership numbers up. There are also grants a club can apply for if they require membership but that's purely a pay to play deal where you have to send them a lot of money to get anything. ETA2: @Dissident The only thing offered is an affiliation link with Lockton Affinity so the NRA gets a kickback. I would strongly suggest the club shop around for insurance if they have that requirement. |
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Originally Posted By thesquidliest: This. Where is that .gif of Stanley(?) from South Park wheeling around his giant blue balls? Originally Posted By thesquidliest: Originally Posted By smokinghole: Every rumor of guidance coming "by tomorrow" is basically the same as the "free beer tomorrow" signs bars have. This. Where is that .gif of Stanley(?) from South Park wheeling around his giant blue balls?  |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
What have the Romans ever done for us?
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Originally Posted By thesquidliest: This. Where is that .gif of Stanley(?) from South Park wheeling around his giant blue balls? Season 14, Episode 3 
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Panem et Circenses
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. - Churchill
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. - Churchill
Professional Skater (as in being lazy)
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Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Randy Marsh https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o6ZtrbzjGAAXyx2WQ/200.webp?cid=8dc8958ciktt2txlx7l8c6le092024d573e85erzc3ld9y4z&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g |
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: Dealers, especially minimum wage counter jockeys, love to speak as though they're some sort of authority because a lot of gun buyers treat them like they are. The power trip is real and they speak with confidence even when they're completely fucking wrong because average Joe customer doesn't know any better. It's ridiculous. Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Originally Posted By HKH: Tell that to TN FFLs And to KY's as well. Some ass told me on the phone that the ruling was a very small ruling that only allowed a small amount of people only in the state of Texas. Cunt Or, ATF people are actually telling dealers that. That's more or less what the ATF told my LGS when they called for clarification the day after the stay expired. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: Dealers, especially minimum wage counter jockeys, love to speak as though they're some sort of authority because a lot of gun buyers treat them like they are. The power trip is real and they speak with confidence even when they're completely fucking wrong because average Joe customer doesn't know any better. It's ridiculous. Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Originally Posted By HKH: Tell that to TN FFLs And to KY's as well. Some ass told me on the phone that the ruling was a very small ruling that only allowed a small amount of people only in the state of Texas. Cunt Local ffl here tried to tell me ATF would break down my door as an unregistered manufacturer if I filed too many F1s for 3d printed suppressors. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By 20andOUT: My dealer (always honest and straightforward with me) said they are expecting some guidance tomorrow from their IOI as the IOI said they will have something by EOD Wednesday. I don’t know what the value of that statement is and how much a random IOI really knows, but I thought I would throw that into the pile here. We're hearing the same info. We haven't changed any business processes because we don't trust ATF and we know how the feds work; decisions don't get made overnight and the ATF is not sympathetic AT ALL to the 2A. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By HKH: It was like 25 bucks for South African 762 I accidentally ended up with one pack of that hot as shit +p+++++ Hirtenberger artic 9mm My mp5 F gun ate that like m&ms Originally Posted By HKH: Originally Posted By Cypher214: I'll buy them back from you for whatever you paid. It was like 25 bucks for South African 762 I accidentally ended up with one pack of that hot as shit +p+++++ Hirtenberger artic 9mm My mp5 F gun ate that like m&ms |
You must play the game. You can't win. You can't break even. You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: We're hearing the same info. We haven't changed any business processes because we don't trust ATF and we know how the feds work; decisions don't get made overnight and the ATF is not sympathetic AT ALL to the 2A. This |
I'm Buddy Rich when I fly off the handle.
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Originally Posted By st33ve0: So, anyone who knows more about this stuff...from what I can see these are the current cases relating to this and their respective initial filing dates: Silencer Shop Foundation v ATF - (5th circuit) July 4, 2025 Brown v ATF - (8th circuit) August 1, 2025 Roberts v ATF - (6th circuit) February 26, 2026 Is it reasonable to expect these cases to take about the same amount of time to get a resolution or does SSF v ATF have a chance to expedite a favorable decision in other 2A friendly circuits? If this injunction is allowed to run out the full 60 days (October 5th, I believe) will we expect to possibly see motion then in other cases or a 14A challenge by GOA et al? ETA: I know SSF v ATF is a district court ruling, but it's in the 5th circuit. This happened with Rare Breed's twin litigation in Texas and New York. Basically it is the job of the judge being asked to rule to rule in a way that does not conflict with the other ruling. So, for instance, a judge in the 8th or 6th Circuit (are these on appeal or just in District Courts in those circuits?) may rule in a different way, but he is supposed to carve out the relief granted in the N.D. Tx as best he can. That is what the judge in Texas did with the contrary preliminary injunction that a judge had previously entered against Rare Breed in the EDNY. |
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Originally Posted By Dissident: Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. Originally Posted By Dissident: Originally Posted By MaxSpeed74: Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: nra members chose and supported the corrupt nra. GOA doesn't need that kind of members. We are forced to be NRA members so our ranges and clubs can purchase insurance. Yep. I even spoke with some board members at my private range about this and was told they understood my position but too bad-so sad, there were a few public ranges that I could frequent if I didn't like it. PSC in Friendswood, TX rescinded the mandate of NRA membership to renew. At least for this past renewal season. I was shocked. (In a good way.) |
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Originally Posted By Freyja_75: The part I'm confused about is: "are permanently enjoined from enforcing the following additional challenged NFA provisions." My limited ability to translate lawyer into rational human English tells me that the Jensen plaintiffs have the protections from the first case, plus additional protections. I'm sure I've missed things in 119 pages, but I haven't seen anyone address that particular word, and one word can entirely change meanings. If Jensen includes only protections for the two parts listed, why would the judge call them "additional challenged NFA provisions?" It seems the usual imprecision of English language, and the opacity of legalese, is making this whole situation clear as mud, and the ATF will absolutely take advantage of that. It is what it is. Perhaps you could email the judge ask for an explanation, then share the answer with us. |
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Originally Posted By wherewildthingsare: Allegedly, Silencer Shop is informing in-network FFLs that there soon will be a “process” in place to resolve inventory registration discrepancy for a Form 3 -> 4473 disposition. We shall wait and see. I (an FFL) just got a survey emailed from Palmetto. It asked "Are you an FFL/SOT" and "Are you willing to make transfers". So they're probably forming a "network" as well. |
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Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Show me where the NRA sells insurance for ranges. The NRA used to insure ranges u til around 2018 or so. Alot of the must be an NRA member rules are left over from those days. Now NRA has a special deal with lockton affinity to give affiliated ranges better rates/coverage. https://locktonaffinityoutdoor.com/firearm-business-landing-page/?utm_source=business+paid+search+land+page+2023&utm_medium=impact&utm_campaign=2023+lao+paid+search&segmentcode=kia05958&keyword=gun%20range%20insurance&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20550139156&gbraid=0AAAAACUUVOjQpxp8WrbfNO4PdFZYa7Wx8&gclid=CjwKCAjwhZDUBhBGEiwAbi5bjrJssrBOS6AVl1JvaRfljPydVu_rk0tm-yfcUeiQ-7TaSGCmShGFGhoC3Q4QAvD_BwE |
Even though it may seem that the OP is mentally disabled, calling him a "retard" is a personal attack. -DKProf
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This is bud light marketing, meets Ocean Gate engineering with Sig public relations level of quality. -RC03
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Originally Posted By wherewildthingsare: Allegedly, Silencer Shop is informing in-network FFLs that there soon will be a "process" in place to resolve inventory registration discrepancy for a Form 3 -> 4473 disposition. We shall wait and see. Updating Your NFRTR After a 4473-Only Transfer August 17, 2026 One question we've heard a lot this past week: "If I transfer a suppressor using a 4473 instead of a Form 4, how do I update the NFRTR?" ATF has confirmed that a process to update the NFRTR through eForms is coming at some point. As soon as that process is available, Silencer Shop will handle the automation for you, so this won't be a manual step on your end. Here's how to get ready now: make sure your Dealer Portal inventory is current. When you sell an item, mark it as Transferred in either My Inventory or Assign Inventory. You'll be asked to select a reason for the transfer, and that reason is what feeds the NFRTR update once the eForms process is live. If the item came from Silencer Shop originally, that reason will already be filled in for you. Keeping your inventory marked correctly now means the NFRTR update will happen automatically and accurately once ATF's process is ready, no extra work required on your part. |
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