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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:22:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
WELCOME BACK ARFCOM PROJECT ENTHUSIASTS!
   It's that time of year again! A week from now students will be here and we will begin this whole craziness once again.  Some of you have contributed, followed along, and read these threads for the last 10yrs now. I can't imgine taking on another project without you all here to help us along and make this project better than we could ever imagine.  A brief history for those who are new to these threads...... ARFCOM has been an essential part of the adventure my students' experience with the building of permanent large installation projects here at our high school. I know that this year and next will be no different, and our success will be attributable to the incredible help that so many of you provide. These projects have rejuvenated my teaching style, given students something they love coming to school for, and providing experiences that they truly value. Thank you all, again, for being such a great community. My Art classes will again work with CAD students, Welding students, Woodworking students, and Robotic students to try to create our next display. For those new to our adventures, roughly 60-80 students from grades 9-12 will work the entire school year to build from scratch a permanent 3D display in an area roughly 17’wide x 17'long x 20’high. Some students might only spend an hour working on this, some three weeks, and some might spend several hours every day the entire year. Our last three projects have ended up costing about $2500-2900 each. The generosity in both funds, equipment, and advice in our previous years have made all the difference in being able to spend that much money on such a project. We will again have to have a t-shirt sale(later, much later  ) to celebrate the adventure and raise the funds needed. The fundraiser will be near the end of the project, so not for almost a year. Now for the important part. Our new subject will be themed around Firebombers and Smoke Jumpers. That may seem a bit odd for a topic, but our space is once again dictating a bit of our topic. We are going to be working in the breakout area that currently displays our taxidermy creations. These are all taxidermy projects that have been created by students over the last 10yrs. I think having to work with the animals and possibly moving them around a bit to create our display may lead to a much more original composition and I know ARFCOM's brainstorming will be at the center of much of that creation, and is one of the most important parts of this adventure. The space is much smaller than last year's F-22 display. I'm sure we will come up with more ideas to add as the display starts to come together. Feel free to share them in this thread. For our display I want us to build a "firebomber" aircraft, possibly 1/6th scale, but I think I'd like to see us only build half of it; left or right side, and have it up against the wall with a wing sticking out over the area. We want to see the propellers spin, and robotics is again on board to help us with that. We have our Senate Page back from D.C. so it should be easier with that integration. We also want to do some "smoke jumper" wild lands firefighters. I was thinking one that was fairly large in scale, and several that are 12", 1/6th scale that might retract and decend from the ceiling. We might build a platform(covered with clouds and smoke) that would hang from the ceiling to make this work. The structual pole in the hallway would become a "U.S. Forest Service Watch Tower". There are several somewhat local, now turned into overnight rentals. Arfcomer's have even stayed in the one near my cabin. The background would have smoke jumpers on the ground working a ridge. Fire, both painted, and 3D. Trees, both painted and 3D. Clouds. Smoke. Possible old fire fighting equipment. We talked in the last year's thread a bout a memorial to some of the smoke jumpers who have lost their lives. The Blackwater Fire of 1937 is a local fire that has a memorial up the North Fork of the Shoshone. https://www.wyohistory.org/field-trips/blackwater-firefighters-memorial That might be an option, but of course, The Yarnell Hill Fire and Granite Mountain Hotshots would be something the students might find more recognizable with the recent movie, "Only The Brave". Here is our new display area:      Normally, I'd try to get everything in my room all unpacked and ready, but since this project is essential to my class curriculum, I need help right off the bat and need some advice and suggestions from ARFCOM. For our Firebomber, I need to get some model aircraft ordered so they are here and we can start figuring out how to scale them to that 1/6th size. I don't want a repeat of last year, where we used an online CAD drawing that turned out to be pretty off.  I only want to make the fuselage once this year. I need to order one of these in the next few days. I might end up ordering one of each and display the others in their own right. That would be pretty cool too.  I know our WY National Guard was pretty enthusiastic when we discussed this project at the end of last year. They have C-130s that do this job. This would seem to be an excellent choice for our aircraft. Models are plenty, and I found a 1/48th scale on Amazon for $113. The C-130 is such an iconic aircraft that we should probably just go with it. There are several in a boneyard in Greybull, WY.    Our other options might be something like the Lockheed P2V Neptune. WWII era platform. Cool factor is pretty high, and I think there is one in Greybull, WY, 45min from here. The problem is, models seem to be scarce. I found none on Amazon.   Consolidated PB4Y-2 Privateers also seemed to be used as firebomers. I know I've seen one in Greybull, but it may be long gone now. Greybull, WY used to be a base for firebombers for much of the N. West U.S. It was pretty awesome to drive by when planes were refueling, landing and taking off, during big fire events.    How about a B-25? Such a sexy aircraft.  Something more modern? I don't even know what this is.    Share with me your thoughts, and ideas. We won't get everything in, but I'm always astonished by what we end up with in the display. Enjoy the adventure ARFCOM! |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:28:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By guns762: WELCOME BACK ARFCOM PROJECT ENTHUSISTS! Now we know why you're an art teacher, and not an English teacher.  Yay, the fun begins again for another year, eagerly awaiting the day that t-shirts are offered, and Arfcommers giving their time, ideas, and money to help with the project. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:31:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MissileCop: Now we know why you're an art teacher, and not an English teacher. Yay, the fun begins again for another year, eagerly awaiting the day that t-shirts are offered, and Arfcommers giving their time, ideas, and money to help with the project. Me no rite, just drwa pitchr. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:32:22 PM EDT
[#4]
IN on this!
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: elcope]
[#5]
Yes!!! Another T-shirt.
I have a fire thread in the MT HTF with some cool pictures of aerial firefighting.           
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:33:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By guns762: WELCOME BACK ARFCOM PROJECT ENTHUSIASTS! https://i.imgur.com/QYNXCMI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/y92aIn5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ELlBM03.jpg It's that time of year again! A week from now students will be here and we will begin this whole craziness once again. Some of you have contributed, followed along, and read these threads for the last 10yrs now. I can't imgine taking on another project without you all here to help us along and make this project better than we could ever imagine. A brief history for those who are new to these threads...... ARFCOM has been an essential part of the adventure my students' experience with the building of permanent large installation projects here at our high school. I know that this year and next will be no different, and our success will be attributable to the incredible help that so many of you provide. These projects have rejuvenated my teaching style, given students something they love coming to school for, and providing experiences that they truly value. Thank you all, again, for being such a great community. My Art classes will again work with CAD students, Welding students, Woodworking students, and Robotic students to try to create our next display. For those new to our adventures, roughly 60-80 students from grades 9-12 will work the entire school year to build from scratch a permanent 3D display in an area roughly 17’wide x 17'long x 20’high. Some students might only spend an hour working on this, some three weeks, and some might spend several hours every day the entire year. Our last three projects have ended up costing about $2500-2900 each. The generosity in both funds, equipment, and advice in our previous years have made all the difference in being able to spend that much money on such a project. We will again have to have a t-shirt sale(later, much later ) to celebrate the adventure and raise the funds needed. The fundraiser will be near the end of the project, so not for almost a year. Now for the important part. Our new subject will be themed around Firebombers and Smoke Jumpers. That may seem a bit odd for a topic, but our space is once again dictating a bit of our topic. We are going to be working in the breakout area that currently displays our taxidermy creations. These are all taxidermy projects that have been created by students over the last 10yrs. I think having to work with the animals and possibly moving them around a bit to create our display may lead to a much more original composition and I know ARFCOM's brainstorming will be at the center of much of that creation, and is one of the most important parts of this adventure. The space is much smaller than last year's F-22 display. I'm sure we will come up with more ideas to add as the display starts to come together. Feel free to share them in this thread. For our display I want us to build a "firebomber" aircraft, possibly 1/6th scale, but I think I'd like to see us only build half of it; left or right side, and have it up against the wall with a wing sticking out over the area. We want to see the propellers spin, and robotics is again on board to help us with that. We have our Senate Page back from D.C. so it should be easier with that integration. We also want to do some "smoke jumper" wild lands firefighters. I was thinking one that was fairly large in scale, and several that are 12", 1/6th scale that might retract and decend from the ceiling. We might build a platform(covered with clouds and smoke) that would hang from the ceiling to make this work. The structual pole in the hallway would become a "U.S. Forest Service Watch Tower". There are several somewhat local, now turned into overnight rentals. Arfcomer's have even stayed in the one near my cabin. The background would have smoke jumpers on the ground working a ridge. Fire, both painted, and 3D. Trees, both painted and 3D. Clouds. Smoke. Possible old fire fighting equipment. We talked in the last year's thread a bout a memorial to some of the smoke jumpers who have lost their lives. The Blackwater Fire of 1937 is a local fire that has a memorial up the North Fork of the Shoshone. https://www.wyohistory.org/field-trips/blackwater-firefighters-memorial That might be an option, but of course, The Yarnell Hill Fire and Granite Mountain Hotshots would be something the students might find more recognizable with the recent movie, "Only The Brave". Here is our new display area: https://i.imgur.com/gBGLFwd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FCFiiNv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/uXgceI8.jpg https://i.imgur.com/9No1kXS.jpg https://i.imgur.com/pbVcDci.jpg Normally, I'd try to get everything in my room all unpacked and ready, but since this project is essential to my class curriculum, I need help right off the bat and need some advice and suggestions from ARFCOM. For our Firebomber, I need to get some model aircraft ordered so they are here and we can start figuring out how to scale them to that 1/6th size. I don't want a repeat of last year, where we used an online CAD drawing that turned out to be pretty off. I only want to make the fuselage once this year. I need to order one of these in the next few days. I might end up ordering one of each and display the others in their own right. That would be pretty cool too. I know our WY National Guard was pretty enthusiastic when we discussed this project at the end of last year. They have C-130s that do this job. This would seem to be an excellent choice for our aircraft. Models are plenty, and I found a 1/48th scale on Amazon for $113. The C-130 is such an iconic aircraft that we should probably just go with it. There are several in a boneyard in Greybull, WY. www.amazon.com/dp/B00KAC04K4 https://i.imgur.com/kRsZf1q.jpg https://i.imgur.com/J21WCqA.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7aFiS0e.jpg Our other options might be something like the Lockheed P2V Neptune. WWII era platform. Cool factor is pretty high, and I think there is one in Greybull, WY, 45min from here. The problem is, models seem to be scarce. I found none on Amazon. https://i.imgur.com/CqX77j5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/az0y3AA.jpg B-24s also seemed to be used as firebomers. Their legendary history of WWII would also make a fun topic. Models are easy to find. I know I've seen one in Greybull, but it may be long gone now. Greybull, WY used to be a base for firebombers for much of the N. West U.S. It was pretty awesome to drive by when planes were refueling, landing and taking off, during big fire events. https://i.imgur.com/FYgSKLr.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3x0OFqD.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3U4WEiw.jpg How about a B-25? Such a sexy aircraft. www.amazon.com/dp/B0006JNS4U https://i.imgur.com/8yyE7HJ.jpg Something more modern? I don't even know what this is. https://i.imgur.com/j3W8z3i.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ftkl6ij.jpg Share with me your thoughts, and ideas. We won't get everything in, but I'm always astonished by what we end up with in the display. Enjoy the adventure ARFCOM! I believe the last one is a P-3 variant, but I don't have the info in front of me. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:36:14 PM EDT
[#7]
P-3 Orion conversion would be awesome.
Don't forget a marker plane. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:38:06 PM EDT
[#9]
The bottom plane looks like a p-3 orion.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:38:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: P-3 Orion conversion would be awesome. Don't forget a marker plane. Help me out here? |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:40:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Martin Mars
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:40:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: buckstrucks]
[#12]
Grumman S-2T trackers are the quienticential fire fighting aircraft in California. First to the fight almost every time.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:40:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR45fan]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Help me out here? They have a small plane / helicopter to guide the tanker in. Also makes sure the lake or wherever the tanker is going to scoop water from is clear of boats. 
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:41:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Woo hoo!
In for a shirt.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:43:50 PM EDT
[#15]
The more modern one in the OP is a P-3A fyi.
There’s always the air tractor fireboss, they’re super common up here. Photo off Google. 
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:44:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Good to see a new year starting!
Where should the funding be sent? |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:45:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Tagscribed!
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USA
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:46:35 PM EDT
[#18]
I have yet to see one of the WY Guard C-130s on a fire here. They’re pretty expensive. We did have the “Super Scoopers” flying a few fires down here a couple of years ago. They were scooping out of Flaming Gorge, which was a logistical nightmare but cool to see.
They are Canadair CL-415 Bombardiers and are really the most iconic planes we have flying right now. They are some decent models of them on the internet. There’s also P2V’s and MD-87s On the heaviest side we see a lot of DC-10s and on the light side we have Single Engine Air Tankers which are usually an Air Tractor platform (we see way more of these since they’re cheap and have a super quick turn around). |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:47:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Tagged for another year!
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:49:23 PM EDT
[#20]
In on one!
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MT, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:51:45 PM EDT
[#21]
I'd go with one of the iconic/historical water bombers that were used in this region: B-26, P-2V. Not a C-130, and definitely not one of the jets (such the BAE-146, otherwise known as the Burner of Taxpayer Dollars).
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:52:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frank_B: Good to see a new year starting! Where should the funding be sent? PHS Art Guild Powell High School 1151 E. 7th St. Powell, WY 82435 |
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USA
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:53:42 PM EDT
[#23]
The C-130's are cool, but I'm a big S2 fan myself. The pilots have balls like grapefruits and they swarm like locusts all over the state
Not sure if this link will work, but its a PDF of air tanker ID over the last few decades: https://www.fire.ca.gov/media/4950/aviation-guide-2019-access.pdf |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:54:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Cool! Exciting new project!
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USA
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:54:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MtnMusic: I'd go with one of the iconic/historical water bombers that were used in this region: B-26, P-2V. Not a C-130, and definitely not one of the jets (such the BAE-146, otherwise known as the Burner of Taxpayer Dollars). I like the Neptune a lot. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:54:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Fantastic photos....saved! They will make great references. Cool, glad you can use them. They are all from the Elmo fire on the west side of Flathead Lake. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:55:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MtnMusic: I'd go with one of the iconic/historical water bombers that were used in this region: B-26, P-2V. Not a C-130, and definitely not one of the jets (such the BAE-146, otherwise known as the Burner of Taxpayer Dollars). I hear you, but I need a model in 1/48th or 1/72 scale we can work from. The B-26 might not be too bad to find. The Neptune I've yet to find. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:55:29 PM EDT
[#28]
In for another epic thread and shirt
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:56:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Oh boy! One of my favorite arf threads ever!
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:56:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope: Cool, glad you can use them. They are all from the Elmo fire on the west side of Flathead Lake. I recognized the area. I flew in there way, way back to pick up my first new vehicle, a 95' black Toyota 4runner. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:57:14 PM EDT
[#31]
After WW2, a number of B-17 Flying Fortresses were converted itno firebombers.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:57:53 PM EDT
[#32]
In on another awesome year!
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Posted: 8/17/2022 4:58:52 PM EDT
[#33]
How's Nora?
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:00:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JCoop: How's Nora? I will check. I have not heard anything over the summer. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:01:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR45fan: They have a small plane / helicopter to guide the tanker in. Also makes sure the lake or wherever the tanker is going to scoop water from is clear of boats. https://wildfiretoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Firewatch-76.jpg Exactly. A marker plane will show the tankers exactly where to drop the water. They will have a smoke emitter to mark the area where the retardant or water needs to be dropped. We ran a King Air for it but a large variety of aircraft are now used. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:04:10 PM EDT
[#36]
C-130 is the only option!
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:09:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Strela]
[#37]
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:12:00 PM EDT
[#38]
I look forward to this thread (and the T-Shirt) every year. In for another adventure.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:12:27 PM EDT
[#39]
In for another great t-shirt and another great art project from another class of great freshmen & an outstanding teacher.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:12:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#40]
A friend of mine (retired Special Forces and Master Parachute Rigger) lives in Missoula up the road from the Smoke Jumper School. His wife (a Ph.D) was one of the very first woman Smoke Jumpers. One of my mentors teaches and leads new Smoke Jumpers. I'll let them know about this thread.
Love your projects! Lots of different Smoke Jumper planes: DC-3, Skyvan, Twin Otter, CASA-212, several more:   :format(webp)/arc-anglerfish-tgam-prod-tgam.s3.amazonaws.com/public/YOMVTOZTTFBFHICVIRPGXFQDLY.jpeg)    Attached File |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JCoop: How's Nora? Just checked. She is doing great!  She will be enrolled at the S.L.C, an alternative school here in Powell, to finish up her Senior year. One of the secretaries said Nora walked up to her and gave her a big hug this summer. She still has some difficulties that she is dealing with, and can't drive right now. I looked through my roster and don't see her there yet, but that could change. I get many S.L.C students here to fulfill their Fine Arts credit. Nora may not have time this semester to take another Art class. We will see. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:20:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela: Go big! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/6163/martinmarsairventure16_jpg-2492759.JPG And show the kids "Always." https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/6163/500px-Always053consolidatedpbgh7_jpg-2492771.JPG Fantastic movie. 
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:21:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Big OST.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:28:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RUM]
[#45]
As cool as the the other places are, considering the sizable soft spot I have for piston driven twin engine aircraft like the Neptune the WYANG C-130 is the obvious choice.
Aesthetically the paint scheme is great, high contrast orange details against the dark great paint scheme. It’s begging for a huge highly detailed model with a plume of orange fire retardant out behind it. On top of the the C-130 is an classic American, rugged, purposeful, all while being beautifully proportioned. Don’t forget the spotter plane, do they operate with those in WY? Great project as always OP |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:42:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: After WW2, a number of B-17 Flying Fortresses were converted itno firebombers. https://www.air-and-space.com/19830710%20SBA/19830710%20SBA%2083296%20B-17F-70-BO%20N17W%2042-29782%2004%20right%20front%20take-off%20l.jpg https://i0.wp.com/www.aerovintage.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/civil-32.jpg?fit=1200%2C775&ssl=1 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHG7YnN70D36pW0c3tveXskgTYvuLQgC7HKkGSkChemQeYxjf2tM66S8JR05CzTG02dqc&usqp=CAU Oh man......... |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:46:02 PM EDT
[#47]
awesome! Another shirt!
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Posted: 8/17/2022 5:51:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Tag for updates and t-shirt.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 6:05:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Exactly. A marker plane will show the tankers exactly where to drop the water. They will have a smoke emitter to mark the area where the retardant or water needs to be dropped. We ran a King Air for it but a large variety of aircraft are now used. Cal Fire uses OV-10s in that role (amongst others).  https://www.fire.ca.gov/media/kkfd4s40/ov-10-2020-1.pdf |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 6:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NotAFudd]
[#50]
Current Smoke Jumpers there use a DHC-8-100
Personally I’d do a Twin Commander lead plane and a tanker behind it. |
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