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Posted: 5/23/2024 11:34:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: If Boeing kills those astronauts the company will go under. They can't afford that public safety blemish on top of the door blowing off the 37 and the Max safety problems related to the engine mounting location. Following all those mergers and aquisitions in the 90s Boeing is too big to fail. The government would step in and put someone in charge of the company with "ink and ice water in their veins" to attempt to unfuck the company. Maybe they would do something silly like hang a new name on the front door. But this country cannot afford to have a military contractor that big and the biggest builder of airliners go belly up. Killing 2 astronauts would be the perfect cherry on top of the hot fudge🍨 of fail that Boeing has become. So it comes across that Boeing is being very careful with this. I mean, one is Butch and the other has a name that sounds a little like Sundance? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2024 12:16:00 PM EDT
[#2]
I hope each of the crew is given a free parachute, Boeing is loaded with woke engineers, that don't know the difference between a broomstick and a buttstock.
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Posted: 5/24/2024 6:24:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By warlord: I hope each of the crew is given a free parachute, Boeing is loaded with woke engineers, that don't know the difference between a broomstick and a buttstock. As if that would help. Boeing had nearly a 1 year stand down for parachute issues and wiring harness tape issues right before the scheduled launch of this crew flight test June of last year. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:11:07 AM EDT
[#4]
NASA says Boeing’s Starliner crew capsule can safely fly ‘as is’ with propulsion system helium leak
"After nearly three weeks of exhaustive tests and data analysis, NASA managers said Friday they are confident Boeing’s oft-delayed Starliner crew capsule can safely launch “as is” June 1, saying a small helium leak in the ship’s propulsion system does not pose a flight safety concern. Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, said even if a suspect shirt-button-size rubber seal in the plumbing leading to one specific thruster failed completely in flight — resulting in a leak rate 100 times worse than what’s been observed to date — the Starliner could still fly safely. “Should we be wrong about something, we could handle up to four more leaks,” he said. “And we could handle this particular leak if that leak rate were to grow, even up to 100 times in this one (propulsion module).” What will now be a nearly one-month-long launch delay was required because “we needed to take the time to work through this analysis, and to understand the helium leak and understand the ramifications of that,” Stich said."  Boeing’s Starliner capsule atop the Atlas 5 rocket inside United Launch Alliance’s Vertical Integration Facility (VIF) at Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral. Image: United Launch Alliance. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:14:27 AM EDT
[#5]
this is sounding a lot like the management failures right before the 1986 and 2003 loss of crew incidents.
I'll make sure to be recording that liftoff. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:23:25 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:37:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fulcrum-5: https://j.gifs.com/ApDdzL.gif An amusing line I heard recently. "Rockets that Wiley Coyote wouldn't fuck with." |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 9:09:56 AM EDT
[#8]
NASA, mission partners answer questions behind Starliner scrub
Managers from NASA, Boeing, and ULA (United Launch Alliance) hosted a media teleconference to discuss ongoing work ahead of sending NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams to the International Space Station as part of the agency’s Boeing Crew Flight Test. The media event provided an update on a valve ULA replaced on the Centaur upper stage of the Atlas V rocket, as well as a small helium leak in the spacecraft’s service module, and a propulsion system assessment to understand potential helium system impacts on some Starliner return scenarios.  NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test Update |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:18:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: NASA says Boeing's Starliner crew capsule can safely fly 'as is' with propulsion system helium leak "After nearly three weeks of exhaustive tests and data analysis, NASA managers said Friday they are confident Boeing's oft-delayed Starliner crew capsule can safely launch "as is" June 1, saying a small helium leak in the ship's propulsion system does not pose a flight safety concern. Steve Stich, manager of NASA's Commercial Crew Program, said even if a suspect shirt-button-size rubber seal in the plumbing leading to one specific thruster failed completely in flight resulting in a leak rate 100 times worse than what's been observed to date the Starliner could still fly safely. "Should we be wrong about something, we could handle up to four more leaks," he said. "And we could handle this particular leak if that leak rate were to grow, even up to 100 times in this one (propulsion module)." What will now be a nearly one-month-long launch delay was required because "we needed to take the time to work through this analysis, and to understand the helium leak and understand the ramifications of that," Stich said." https://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/20240524-Starliner-Feature-Image.jpg Boeing's Starliner capsule atop the Atlas 5 rocket inside United Launch Alliance's Vertical Integration Facility (VIF) at Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral. Image: United Launch Alliance. I worked the qual testing of the containers for the first Laser JDAM equipment. If the gaskets were in perfect condition, perfectly placed, and the mating surfaces surgically clean, the containers would seal water tight under pressure. I guarantee the containers in the field are not air or water tight at any inside or outside pressure. This is a relatively low performance sealing requirement. The current Starliner launchers have featured constant rolling leaky joints and valves. I'm really curious about the management of those parts, especially the qual testing imposed on the vendors, and then the follow up verification by Boeing. Including an in depth look into the supplier management group and decisions that were not passed back through engineering. I despised free lancing by vendors, and supplier management seems to believe they have more flexibility than engineering grants. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:26:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Is so safe the President of Boeing or Bill Nelson should go up to prove it.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:41:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: I worked the qual testing of the containers for the first Laser JDAM equipment. If the gaskets were in perfect condition, perfectly placed, and the mating surfaces surgically clean, the containers would seal water tight under pressure. I guarantee the containers in the field are not air or water tight at any inside or outside pressure. This is a relatively low performance sealing requirement. The current Starliner launchers have featured constant rolling leaky joints and valves. I'm really curious about the management of those parts, especially the qual testing imposed on the vendors, and then the follow up verification by Boeing. Including an in depth look into the supplier management group and decisions that were not passed back through engineering. I despised free lancing by vendors, and supplier management seems to believe they have more flexibility than engineering grants. The long term... "Plan" for Starliner if it isnt cancelled is for it to go up on the new Vulcan rocket. But with the newer generation of reusable rockets going into service over the foreseeable future I don't see Vulcan being economically viable over the long term. I expect it to fly, maybe 20 times carrying oddball cargo that won't fit on a Falcon 9. Too bad, it seems like they put a lot of work into that thing. 
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Posted: 5/25/2024 5:37:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: NASA says Boeing’s Starliner crew capsule can safely fly ‘as is’ with propulsion system helium leak "After nearly three weeks of exhaustive tests and data analysis, NASA managers said Friday they are confident Boeing’s oft-delayed Starliner crew capsule can safely launch “as is” June 1, saying a small helium leak in the ship’s propulsion system does not pose a flight safety concern. Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, said even if a suspect shirt-button-size rubber seal in the plumbing leading to one specific thruster failed completely in flight — resulting in a leak rate 100 times worse than what’s been observed to date — the Starliner could still fly safely. “Should we be wrong about something, we could handle up to four more leaks,” he said. “And we could handle this particular leak if that leak rate were to grow, even up to 100 times in this one (propulsion module).” What will now be a nearly one-month-long launch delay was required because “we needed to take the time to work through this analysis, and to understand the helium leak and understand the ramifications of that,” Stich said." https://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/20240524-Starliner-Feature-Image.jpg Boeing’s Starliner capsule atop the Atlas 5 rocket inside United Launch Alliance’s Vertical Integration Facility (VIF) at Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral. Image: United Launch Alliance. Okay. I wonder how much pressure management placed on the engineering team to assess this as “use as is” vs. changing the seal. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 5:51:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: The long term... "Plan" for Starliner if it isnt cancelled is for it to go up on the new Vulcan rocket. But with the newer generation of reusable rockets going into service over the foreseeable future I don't see Vulcan being economically viable over the long term. I expect it to fly, maybe 20 times carrying oddball cargo that won't fit on a Falcon 9. Too bad, it seems like they spent a lot of taxpayer money for likely minimal improvement Opinion. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 6:30:38 PM EDT
[#14]
It's becoming increasingly clear why space x just says "we are standing down for extra ground checks" and leaves it at that.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 10:49:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: Wait for stock to crash, buy on steep discount, too big to fail, profit. I had thought we werew already there. LOL |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 2:38:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: The long term... "Plan" for Starliner if it isnt cancelled is for it to go up on the new Vulcan rocket. But with the newer generation of reusable rockets going into service over the foreseeable future I don't see Vulcan being economically viable over the long term. I expect it to fly, maybe 20 times carrying oddball cargo that won't fit on a Falcon 9. Too bad, it seems like they put a lot of work into that thing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By AeroE: I worked the qual testing of the containers for the first Laser JDAM equipment. If the gaskets were in perfect condition, perfectly placed, and the mating surfaces surgically clean, the containers would seal water tight under pressure. I guarantee the containers in the field are not air or water tight at any inside or outside pressure. This is a relatively low performance sealing requirement. The current Starliner launchers have featured constant rolling leaky joints and valves. I'm really curious about the management of those parts, especially the qual testing imposed on the vendors, and then the follow up verification by Boeing. Including an in depth look into the supplier management group and decisions that were not passed back through engineering. I despised free lancing by vendors, and supplier management seems to believe they have more flexibility than engineering grants. The long term... "Plan" for Starliner if it isnt cancelled is for it to go up on the new Vulcan rocket. But with the newer generation of reusable rockets going into service over the foreseeable future I don't see Vulcan being economically viable over the long term. I expect it to fly, maybe 20 times carrying oddball cargo that won't fit on a Falcon 9. Too bad, it seems like they put a lot of work into that thing. 3 Starliners built, 2 flown with issues, and 1 retired after its pad abort test in 2019. Will this upcoming flight test leave them with a reuseable spacecraft that has alredy had issues or will it need to be 'retired' as well? Originally Boeing said the Starliner was only good for 10 flighs (wishful thinking at this point?). Better secure a few billion more in funding and another decade to build another ship.... |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 2:41:26 AM EDT
[#17]
I wouldn't fly on that thing.
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Posted: 5/29/2024 11:37:10 PM EDT
[#18]
May 29 14:10
NASA, mission partners 'Go' for Crew Flight Test launch NASA and Boeing teams polled “go” to proceed with plans to launch the agency’s Boeing Crew Flight Test to the International Space Station at 12:25 p.m. EDT Saturday, June 1. During a Delta-Agency Flight Test Readiness Review Wednesday at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida, leaders from NASA, Boeing, and ULA (United Launch Alliance) verified launch readiness, including all systems, facilities, and teams supporting the test flight. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 8:14:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Yeah… SpaceX and Elon whipped the Boeing / ULA team on Commercial Crew…
I see Boeing just eeking out their required missions and then Starliners will be in the museums in Houston and the Cape. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 8:50:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: this is sounding a lot like the management failures right before the 1986 and 2003 loss of crew incidents. I'll make sure to be recording that liftoff. No shit. :mcfly I've seen this before: We used to say if you live with deficiencies, you will be living with the fish in the seas. Probably works same as spacecraft as it does on submarines. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 9:13:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobalt135: 3 Starliners built, 2 flown with issues, and 1 retired after its pad abort test in 2019. Will this upcoming flight test leave them with a reuseable spacecraft that has alredy had issues or will it need to be 'retired' as well? Originally Boeing said the Starliner was only good for 10 flighs (wishful thinking at this point?). Better secure a few billion more in funding and another decade to build another ship.... They aren’t going to retire it over a valve. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 9:31:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Will launch be televised or online? This is first US launch of astronauts in many years, correct?
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 9:37:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Will launch be televised or online? This is first US launch of astronauts in many years, correct? Yes, the first US launch of astronauts since Space X launched 4 of them a couple months ago. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 9:40:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Will launch be televised or online? This is first US launch of astronauts in many years, correct? 😂 No the US launches astronauts about 2-3 times a year via SpaceX Dragon Capsules on F9 rockets. Hell, SpaceX tossed 4 civilians up last year for the fun of it.  Inspiration4 crew opens Dragon's cupola for the first time That Boeing ship is a POS Chevy Malibu while the Dragons are Model S Plaids. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 9:53:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: juan223]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Yes, the first US launch of astronauts since Space X launched 4 of them a couple months ago.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 9:55:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Will launch be televised or online? This is first US launch of astronauts in many years, correct? Read the first post..page 1. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 10:02:04 AM EDT
[#27]
While at work I frequently pass by one of their secondary landing sites, they've had a small advance element in position for a month or two.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 10:09:07 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Will launch be televised or online? This is first US launch of astronauts in many years, correct?  |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 10:10:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: While at work I frequently pass by one of their secondary landing sites, they've had a small advance element in position for a month or two. Knowing Boeing the Starliner is more likely to land on the power plant rather than the playa. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 12:08:52 PM EDT
[#30]
I am 5nm south of the launch site (in the Atlantic) and it looks like the rocket is on its side next to the launch towers.
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Posted: 5/30/2024 1:03:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackFox: I am 5nm south of the launch site (in the Atlantic) and it looks like the rocket is on its side next to the launch towers. If it toppled over, there would have been a rather large explosion. Hopefully you are just seeing a Falcon 9, it rolls horizontal. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 1:06:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: NASA says Boeing’s Starliner crew capsule can safely fly ‘as is’ with propulsion system helium leak "After nearly three weeks of exhaustive tests and data analysis, NASA managers said Friday they are confident Boeing’s oft-delayed Starliner crew capsule can safely launch “as is” June 1, saying a small helium leak in the ship’s propulsion system does not pose a flight safety concern. Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, said even if a suspect shirt-button-size rubber seal in the plumbing leading to one specific thruster failed completely in flight — resulting in a leak rate 100 times worse than what’s been observed to date — the Starliner could still fly safely. “Should we be wrong about something, we could handle up to four more leaks,” he said. “And we could handle this particular leak if that leak rate were to grow, even up to 100 times in this one (propulsion module).” What will now be a nearly one-month-long launch delay was required because “we needed to take the time to work through this analysis, and to understand the helium leak and understand the ramifications of that,” Stich said." https://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/20240524-Starliner-Feature-Image.jpg Boeing’s Starliner capsule atop the Atlas 5 rocket inside United Launch Alliance’s Vertical Integration Facility (VIF) at Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral. Image: United Launch Alliance. Almost sounds like Boeing said we need a few months and won't risk it.... NASA said we'll publicly put any risk on our own engineers so Boeing isn't blamed if something goes wrong. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 1:12:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Will launch be televised or online? This is first US launch of astronauts in many years, correct? They are putting disinformation out there to hype Boeing. It's the first time they've technically launched from the space force base. The last time was one of the first manned Saturn V's. It's literally a few thousand feet away from KSC land, but they've played with the names and ownership so much they can get away with calling it THE FIRST time since 1973ish |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 2:35:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperHeavy: They are putting disinformation out there to hype Boeing. It's the first time they've technically launched from the space force base. The last time was one of the first manned Saturn V's. It's literally a few thousand feet away from KSC land, but they've played with the names and ownership so much they can get away with calling it THE FIRST time since 1973ish There's been a separation between the Air Force facility at Cape Canaveral and NASA/KSC at Cape Kennedy for decades. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 2:38:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperHeavy]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rugerlvr: There's been a separation between the Air Force facility at Cape Canaveral and NASA/KSC at Cape Kennedy for decades. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rugerlvr: Originally Posted By SuperHeavy: They are putting disinformation out there to hype Boeing. It's the first time they've technically launched from the space force base. The last time was one of the first manned Saturn V's. It's literally a few thousand feet away from KSC land, but they've played with the names and ownership so much they can get away with calling it THE FIRST time since 1973ish There's been a separation between the Air Force facility at Cape Canaveral and NASA/KSC at Cape Kennedy for decades. Yes but the first reports were playing games with the names to make it seem like a historic event. Cape Canaveral has changed names a few times. I am referencing an article from the SpaceX launch thread Originally Posted By SuperHeavy: Originally Posted By KELBEAST: Originally Posted By SuperHeavy: Hopefully you guys got your tickets to this historic flight. First Human spaceflight from the space in 56 years.  Wtf? Is that true? Has Space X launched all their crewed flights from Vandenberg? Not it's retarded. I meant to type cape not space. I assume they mean the space force base, since I guess SpaceX is technically at KSC. The whole article is fubar. It's really a play on words. Space Force Didn't Exist, and they changed names around a few times. Changed Cape Canveral to Cape Kennedy, but changed back in 1973. So technically everything is wrong about that article. Apollo 8 launched from Cape Kennedy (on the air force base), it's been Cape Canaveral since 1973, when they changed it back. It was really only Cape Kennedy during the Apollo program |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 3:05:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Hi_Desert: Knowing Boeing the Starliner is more likely to land on the power plant rather than the playa. I heard they sent certified letters to those in a certain radius asking them to vacate themselves and pets on the proposed landing day. 
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Posted: 5/30/2024 3:13:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Starliner is back out at Pad 41.
Being the launch is scheduled for 12:25 p.m. EDT Saturday, it going to be very busy here this weekend. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 4:27:20 PM EDT
[#38]
 Boeing Starliner Returned to Pad for CFT Launch |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 5:19:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Weather looks great for Saturday, I'm predicting that it'll launch...
If it doesn't it'll be another ULA anomaly, if it doesn't due to a Starliner issue, that'll be one (more) HUMONGUS hurdle for Boeing to overcome, IF it can survive it. either way, NASA will spend a few more billions on it 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 5:26:05 PM EDT
[#40]
LOL, sure, OK.
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Posted: 5/30/2024 6:04:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RED_5: Weather looks great for Saturday, I'm predicting that it'll launch... If it doesn't it'll be another ULA anomaly, if it doesn't due to a Starliner issue, that'll be one (more) HUMONGUS hurdle for Boeing to overcome, IF it can survive it. either way, NASA will spend a few more billions on it It will not launch due to an issue found during one of the 30 built in holds and the lack of hot firing on the pad like SpaceX does with all their assembled rockets. |
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Posted: 5/30/2024 6:16:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: It will not launch due to an issue found during one of the 30 built in holds and the lack of hot firing on the pad like SpaceX does with all their assembled rockets. Atlas V has been a very reliable rocket. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 9:17:22 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: Atlas V has been a very reliable rocket. They will “find” an issue but blame it on the booster. I am honestly concerned for Sunni and her crew mate. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 10:20:25 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 5/31/2024 2:33:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: It will not launch due to an issue found during one of the 30 built in holds and the lack of hot firing on the pad like SpaceX does with all their assembled rockets. I’m pretty sure SpaceX has stopped the pre-flight hot fires. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 2:41:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HeavyMetal: I’m pretty sure SpaceX has stopped the pre-flight hot fires. Well all of the current boosters have multiple flights so that would make sense. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 7:52:23 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 5/31/2024 9:43:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Probably been said already but I really hope their space division is better run than the atmospheric aircraft division.
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Posted: 5/31/2024 9:47:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Madcat207: I just can't believe an Apollo-esq capsule is still the best Boeing can do since 1970. I know the shuttle had its issues, but it seems crazy that teardrop capsules are the norm still. (I know alot of form follows function, and i am happy that anything is still going to space.. just still). The next manned moon mission will be a capsule. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 9:47:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sharky30: Probably been said already but I really hope their space division is better run than the atmospheric aircraft division. It isn't. Starliner has been a cluster fuck for years. |
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