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Posted: 10/7/2018 4:20:30 PM EDT
Ian and Larry Vickers go over a very rare, American made FAL.
 The American FAL: Harrington & Richardson T48 (w/ Larry Vickers) |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:22:18 PM EDT
[#1]
DSA did a run of T48 clones a while back. If I get another FAL it will be something along those lines.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:55:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Isnt it better we didnt adopt in the long run? This might have delayed our adoption of of the m16. But also didnt we doom the FAL into 7.62, maybe in the original cartridge this site would be called T48.com
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:58:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DSA did a run of T48 clones a while back. If I get another FAL it will be something along those lines. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:07:00 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:12:22 PM EDT
[#5]
A little too pro-FAL for me. It's a dead rifle that has zero significance in modern times. If it was adopted by 90 countries it's been abandoned by 90 countries.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:17:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote History |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:28:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A little too pro-FAL for me. It's a dead rifle that has zero significance in modern times. If it was adopted by 90 countries it's been abandoned by 90 countries. One thing I wish they had demonstrated and at least mentioned was the forward assist function I've read that the H&R T-48 charging handle had. My understanding is that when the retention pin hits the ramp that it engages the bolt carrier, allowing it to be pushed forward. Once it pas the ramp it disengages and the pin retains the charging handle in the forward position. Some H&Rs also had an adaptation for mounting the sling swivel to the triangular handguard instead of the barrel like what FN did for most of the T-48s it delivered to the Army. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:30:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What else is in that pic? Quote HistoryQuoted:
What else is in that pic? The T48 in that picture is an FN-made rifle rather than an H&R-made rifle like the one in the video. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:43:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A little too pro-FAL for me. It's a dead rifle that has zero significance in modern times. If it was adopted by 90 countries it's been abandoned by 90 countries. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:45:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Perhaps, at some US Armory, they still sit, waiting...
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:53:41 PM EDT
[#11]
The T-25 was an interesting rifle from that time as well but the game was rigged for the M-14 and it had no chance.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m14-development/t25/ 
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:03:11 PM EDT
[#12]
I would have hated to have dragged that pig around in the delta for a year.
The Aussies we came across wanted very much to trade their FALs for our M-16's. I thought they were pretty cool rifles...in my 19yr old brain...when in Germany some German soldiers lent me their HKs to examine thought those were cool too.. But slogging the mud,rice paddies,canals,and rivers with one + ammo....no thank you...humped the M60 a few times back to extraction points after we had gunners wounded and dusted off...that was plenty bad enough. M-16 all the way...and in light wt configuration to boot thank you. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:05:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps, at some US Armory, they still sit, waiting... https://preview.ibb.co/giVRjU/USMC_FALs.jpg Used to see similar pics of H&R T-48s on FAL Files. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:14:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a book title Random Shots - Episodes in the Life of a Weapons Developer, by Roy E. Rayle. Roy was an engineer at Springfield Armory for many years, and I believe (unless I'm mistaken) that he was eventually promoted to Director of Engineering before it closed in 1968. He details the competition between the M14 and the FAL, and contrary to popular opinion, the M14 soundly beat the FAL during testing. Apparently the FAL is not very tolerant to foreign debris.
My opinion is that the M16A1 is phenomenally better than both. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:40:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isnt it better we didnt adopt in the long run? This might have delayed our adoption of of the m16. But also didnt we doom the FAL into 7.62, maybe in the original cartridge this site would be called T48.com |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:51:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of countries still use it. Some are modernizing it instead of adopting something new (Brazil and Argentina, for example; Peru as well, having cancelled its plan to replace the FAL with the SCAR after a few thousand units had been delivered). It's still a capable combat rifle today, even though it's been surpassed in a number of areas by other rifles. Heck, it's what I use as my go-to defensive rifle at home, on road trips, etc. As far as non-AR 7.62mm rifles go, Vickers seems to really like the FAL. One thing I wish they had demonstrated and at least mentioned was the forward assist function I've read that the H&R T-48 charging handle had. My understanding is that when the retention pin hits the ramp that it engages the bolt carrier, allowing it to be pushed forward. Once it pas the ramp it disengages and the pin retains the charging handle in the forward position. Some H&Rs also had an adaptation for mounting the sling swivel to the triangular handguard instead of the barrel like what FN did for most of the T-48s it delivered to the Army. Now, if you are Kenya and getting US funds for CT, hey, let’s buy a SCAR-H. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:06:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quite a few African countries have had DSA come over a do work/improve their FALs, even to the point of supplying them with rifles. For some countries that are fighting limited actions and have limited money, staying with the FAL is just fine, same with the AK. Now, if you are Kenya and getting US funds for CT, hey, let’s buy a SCAR-H. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: A lot of countries still use it. Some are modernizing it instead of adopting something new (Brazil and Argentina, for example; Peru as well, having cancelled its plan to replace the FAL with the SCAR after a few thousand units had been delivered). It's still a capable combat rifle today, even though it's been surpassed in a number of areas by other rifles. Heck, it's what I use as my go-to defensive rifle at home, on road trips, etc. As far as non-AR 7.62mm rifles go, Vickers seems to really like the FAL. One thing I wish they had demonstrated and at least mentioned was the forward assist function I've read that the H&R T-48 charging handle had. My understanding is that when the retention pin hits the ramp that it engages the bolt carrier, allowing it to be pushed forward. Once it pas the ramp it disengages and the pin retains the charging handle in the forward position. Some H&Rs also had an adaptation for mounting the sling swivel to the triangular handguard instead of the barrel like what FN did for most of the T-48s it delivered to the Army. Now, if you are Kenya and getting US funds for CT, hey, let’s buy a SCAR-H. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:13:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote History |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:15:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of people agree with this. That if we had not adopted the dumb M14 and got the FAL. It would have taken a lot longer to get the M16. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Isnt it better we didnt adopt in the long run? This might have delayed our adoption of of the m16. But also didnt we doom the FAL into 7.62, maybe in the original cartridge this site would be called T48.com |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:19:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A little too pro-FAL for me. It's a dead rifle that has zero significance in modern times. If it was adopted by 90 countries it's been abandoned by 90 countries. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:20:30 PM EDT
[#21]
We would have dumped the fal in Vietnam just like we did the m14. Ymmv.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:52:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aside from cost, one of the problems the Peruvians had with the SCAR was that the stocks kept breaking. Not the first time I've heard of there being an issue with that. Are SCAR stocks really that fragile? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: A lot of countries still use it. Some are modernizing it instead of adopting something new (Brazil and Argentina, for example; Peru as well, having cancelled its plan to replace the FAL with the SCAR after a few thousand units had been delivered). It's still a capable combat rifle today, even though it's been surpassed in a number of areas by other rifles. Heck, it's what I use as my go-to defensive rifle at home, on road trips, etc. As far as non-AR 7.62mm rifles go, Vickers seems to really like the FAL. One thing I wish they had demonstrated and at least mentioned was the forward assist function I've read that the H&R T-48 charging handle had. My understanding is that when the retention pin hits the ramp that it engages the bolt carrier, allowing it to be pushed forward. Once it pas the ramp it disengages and the pin retains the charging handle in the forward position. Some H&Rs also had an adaptation for mounting the sling swivel to the triangular handguard instead of the barrel like what FN did for most of the T-48s it delivered to the Army. Now, if you are Kenya and getting US funds for CT, hey, let’s buy a SCAR-H. Plastic receivers, lol.... |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:11:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Interesting video.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:19:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's reasonable to think we would have never seen the M16 in that case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isnt it better we didnt adopt in the long run? This might have delayed our adoption of of the m16. But also didnt we doom the FAL into 7.62, maybe in the original cartridge this site would be called T48.com |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:28:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Love the FAL. Would love to have aT48 clone.
The M16 is better. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:30:35 PM EDT
[#26]
drool
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:40:05 PM EDT
[#27]
They made HK-93s too.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:54:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SCAR stocks? Hell man, SCAR receivers cracked when Army Rangers tried to employ them in Afghanistan. Plastic receivers, lol.... |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 9:57:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aside from cost, one of the problems the Peruvians had with the SCAR was that the stocks kept breaking. Not the first time I've heard of there being an issue with that. Are SCAR stocks really that fragile? I enjoy my SCARs, but if I was going to arm up a country with 7.62 guns, SCAR wouldn’t be my first choice. MK20 is badass though. I like the FAL. Fun fact, for those that don’t know. Germany fielded a few FALs, ut the. Elgies wouldn’t give them a license, so G3. Not an obscure fact, but some don’t know that. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 10:03:08 PM EDT
[#30]
FALs are like luxury cars while ARs are like typical daily driver cars.
The FAL is always going to be a bit bigger, more expensive to maintain and upgrade, and has a cult following. While the AR is cheap to produce in mass quantities, cheap to deck out, and cheap to run. Both are equally good at what they do. Just depends on the person operating it |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 5:08:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, for a $2400+ rifle, there sure are a lot of aftermarket replacement parts out there. I enjoy my SCARs, but if I was going to arm up a country with 7.62 guns, SCAR wouldn’t be my first choice. MK20 is badass though. I like the FAL. Fun fact, for those that don’t know. Germany fielded a few FALs, ut the. Elgies wouldn’t give them a license, so G3. Not an obscure fact, but some don’t know that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Aside from cost, one of the problems the Peruvians had with the SCAR was that the stocks kept breaking. Not the first time I've heard of there being an issue with that. Are SCAR stocks really that fragile? I enjoy my SCARs, but if I was going to arm up a country with 7.62 guns, SCAR wouldn’t be my first choice. MK20 is badass though. I like the FAL. Fun fact, for those that don’t know. Germany fielded a few FALs, ut the. Elgies wouldn’t give them a license, so G3. Not an obscure fact, but some don’t know that. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 5:09:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SCAR stocks? Hell man, SCAR receivers cracked when Army Rangers tried to employ them in Afghanistan. Plastic receivers, lol.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: A lot of countries still use it. Some are modernizing it instead of adopting something new (Brazil and Argentina, for example; Peru as well, having cancelled its plan to replace the FAL with the SCAR after a few thousand units had been delivered). It's still a capable combat rifle today, even though it's been surpassed in a number of areas by other rifles. Heck, it's what I use as my go-to defensive rifle at home, on road trips, etc. As far as non-AR 7.62mm rifles go, Vickers seems to really like the FAL. One thing I wish they had demonstrated and at least mentioned was the forward assist function I've read that the H&R T-48 charging handle had. My understanding is that when the retention pin hits the ramp that it engages the bolt carrier, allowing it to be pushed forward. Once it pas the ramp it disengages and the pin retains the charging handle in the forward position. Some H&Rs also had an adaptation for mounting the sling swivel to the triangular handguard instead of the barrel like what FN did for most of the T-48s it delivered to the Army. Now, if you are Kenya and getting US funds for CT, hey, let’s buy a SCAR-H. Plastic receivers, lol.... |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 5:48:09 AM EDT
[#33]
The M-14 beat the FAL for a variety of good and marginal reasons.
The AR-10 was better than both, and all three weapons are an interesting chapter in modern firearms development. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 6:55:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe that's MCB Quantico VA. Used to see similar pics of H&R T-48s on FAL Files. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Perhaps, at some US Armory, they still sit, waiting... https://preview.ibb.co/giVRjU/USMC_FALs.jpg Used to see similar pics of H&R T-48s on FAL Files. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 7:24:48 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We would have dumped the fal in Vietnam just like we did the m14. Ymmv. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 7:31:06 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 10/8/2018 7:36:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Many T48s ended up at the JFKSWS as weapons for the courses there.
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Posted: 10/8/2018 7:57:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M-14 beat the FAL for a variety of good and marginal reasons. The AR-10 was better than both, and all three weapons are an interesting chapter in modern firearms development. The FAL has twice the parts as the M-14 Anyone who could was trained with the M-1 Garand could easily transition to the M-14. The Israelis had problems with reliability of the FAL hence the sand cuts in the bolt carrier One thing that people claim that makes the FAL better is that it was adopted by so many countries. It was sold on the world market The M-14 was only made for the US and never marketed A lot of countries had the M-1’s provided for them. I bet they would have picked the M-14 also for the same reasons listed above |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 8:10:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would have hated to have dragged that pig around in the delta for a year. The Aussies we came across wanted very much to trade their FALs for our M-16's. I thought they were pretty cool rifles...in my 19yr old brain...when in Germany some German soldiers lent me their HKs to examine thought those were cool too.. But slogging the mud,rice paddies,canals,and rivers with one + ammo....no thank you...humped the M60 a few times back to extraction points after we had gunners wounded and dusted off...that was plenty bad enough. M-16 all the way...and in light wt configuration to boot thank you. Someone heard him complain and made him a 60 gunner... |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 8:11:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M-14 was the logical pick. They were both comparable in reliability. The FAL has twice the parts as the M-14 Anyone who could was trained with the M-1 Garand could easily transition to the M-14. The Israelis had problems with reliability of the FAL hence the sand cuts in the bolt carrier One thing that people claim that makes the FAL better is that it was adopted by so many countries. It was sold on the world market The M-14 was only made for the US and never marketed A lot of countries had the M-1’s provided for them. I bet they would have picked the M-14 also for the same reasons listed above FNs manufacturing practices are apparent when you see one next to an Armalite AR10, and it becomes immediately clear what a revolution the Armalite rifles were. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 8:35:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Very cool!
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Posted: 10/8/2018 8:42:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Very Cool!
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Posted: 10/8/2018 8:58:32 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. The FAL and M14 are almost identical. The M16 would have appeared when it did either way. I wouldn’t claim the M14 and FAL are almost identical, however. I always am amused by the claim that the FAL was inferior to the M14 dues to debris when the FAL has been put to effective use in many, shall we say, “debris-rich” theaters. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 8:58:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My father used to jokingly said he complained about being a lefty and the shell casings hitting him in the face from his M16. Someone heard him complain and made him a 60 gunner... Didn't SA make a civilian SAR-48 in the 80's? Vaguely remember drooling over one. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 9:12:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Umm, I think it's more accurate to say that the advantages the M16 had over the M14 are basically the same as what they are over the FAL. So I agree that the M16 was coming either way. Our "rifleman culture" was only a temporary protest that was always going to lose out. I wouldn't claim the M14 and FAL are almost identical, however. I always am amused by the claim that the FAL was inferior to the M14 dues to debris when the FAL has been put to effective use in many, shall we say, "debris-rich" theaters. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 9:33:07 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some E-6 had a wicked sense of humor. Didn't SA make a civilian SAR-48 in the 80's? Vaguely remember drooling over one. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 9:55:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, we had and still have a big rifleman culture that tries to assert dominance over fire power and combined arms theory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isnt it better we didnt adopt in the long run? This might have delayed our adoption of of the m16. But also didnt we doom the FAL into 7.62, maybe in the original cartridge this site would be called T48.com The 38 had a problem with putting down the Moros and many switched back to the SAA Colt. One interesting fact I read about the development of the M-14. There was a argument about going to Box Magazines vs staying with Enbloc type clips The supporters of the Enbloc said that with those ammo could be stored nearly forever and dropped into battle ready to go. The magazine couldn't be stored loaded with ammo and needed to be loaded before going to the troops on the front line |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 12:44:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Years ago there was a Soldier on the FAL Files that worked in the armory where those T48s were at. He took a pic holding one and the rack of rifles.
Pics are probably around. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 1:04:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Springfield Armory Museum? |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 1:38:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Great video! Someday, I’ll get myself a FAL to keep my PTR91 Company. Either a Para model or full length with wood furniture.
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