Have any of you rewatched Star Trek TNG recently? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/25/2024 1:17:53 AM EDT
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For Christmas the family bought me the TNG blu ray set and the DS9 set. I loved ST when I was a little kid. I’m not quite old enough to remember seeing any original run TOS. As a little kid in the early 70s I remember seeing episodes on TV on the weekends. And the Saturday morning cartoon when it originally ran. I don’t recall TNG when it started. I lived in the barracks and didn’t have cable and was like a PFC in Ranger Bn or in Ranger school or whatever when it started. Around Sep. 1990 to 1994 is when I was in a situation where I caught TOS and saw every episode, started watching that season of TNG, and also caught up on the rebroadcasts of the first few seasons. I started watching DS9 when it came out and also Voyager. I never caught all the episodes or completed those series. My plan is to little by little to through TNG and start DS9 mixed in just like it was when originally aired. Then go with DS9 until Voyager and mix them in, then finish that. I have seen all the movies. And, paradoxically, streamed enterprise a while back. As far as TNG blurays- They look amazing. Yes, it is dated sfx, and still in classic broadcast TV ratio, but everthing looks far better than the 19 inch color TV I saw them on. Amusingly, my modern big flat screen is feeding into the same analog amp and out the same speakers as when I first saw the episodes air. And the same VCR I taped many an episode on is still running. (The tv finally died around 2008, after about 20 years of service.) And it sounds great. And is neat still “feeling” the hum of the engines through those same speakers. |
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I went with TNG on DVD. I want the quality the same. Watching it on a 65" tv in hi def4k or whatever vs 24" tv on broadcast tv are very different quality. Red Letter Media did a whole video on the little things they can see, like set repairs and things. I don't need to see that, nor do I want to. That's not what the show was. I feel the same about ToS, TAS, DS9, Babylon 5, and Voyager. I have no opinion on Enterprise. TNG Season 1 is bad. Writing sucks. Season 2 less so. The thing I have noticed more and more is that Worf is always right, and always ignored, and every episode would be 5 minutes long if they listened to his security advice. With the exception of Drumhead, where he's probably got so much pent up security angst he goes nuts. |
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Originally Posted By Sirveaux: I went with TNG on DVD. I want the quality the same. Watching it on a 65" tv in hi def4k or whatever vs 24" tv on broadcast tv are very different quality. Red Letter Media did a whole video on the little things they can see, like set repairs and things. I don't need to see that, nor do I want to. That's not what the show was. I feel the same about ToS, TAS, DS9, Babylon 5, and Voyager. I have no opinion on Enterprise. TNG Season 1 is bad. Writing sucks. Season 2 less so. The thing I have noticed more and more is that Worf is always right, and always ignored, and every episode would be 5 minutes long if they listened to his security advice. With the exception of Drumhead, where he's probably got so much pent up security angst he goes nuts. |
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Originally Posted By TheLASwamp: It took a while for TNG to find its sea legs, so to speak. The first season, they were trying to figure out a lot of details about who they were and what they were doing as a series. By the end of the second season, they seemed to have an idea about where they wanted to go with the show. I recall B5 was much the same way. Both shows got much better as they got into the series. I remember TNG being a much better show by the third season. It was far more cohesive and enjoyable. It seemed to me that the trend for Star Trek is that the first 2 seasons are usually mediocre at best, but th start picking up on around season 3. There are exceptions, but from where I stand TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT all suffered from it. I cant speak for anything after ENT, though it sounds like PIC did the same (for different reasons). B5 was kind of that way as well, but S1 and 2 were more worldbuilding/story setup for later seasons than anything else so it makes a little more sense in that context. |
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There are individual episodes in early TNG seasons that are good, and the massive plot arc through season 1 is pretty damned good, though tragically it wasn't really revisited. It's just stuck in there with a whole lot of "Wesley does a science experiment for class that almost destroys the ship" and "planet of the stereotypes" episodes. Between Angel One and Code of Honor, I'm not sure if they're stupidly offensive, offensively stupid, or both. For all their failures, they still have charm, and did lead to some of the greatest sci-fi on TV. Though those two episodes are noteable for being the kind of thing that would have been tone-deaf on the original series. |
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Originally Posted By Sirveaux: There are individual episodes in early TNG seasons that are good, and the massive plot arc through season 1 is pretty damned good, though tragically it wasn't really revisited. |
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Originally Posted By darkpaladin1: It seemed to me that the trend for Star Trek is that the first 2 seasons are usually mediocre at best, but th start picking up on around season 3. There are exceptions, but from where I stand TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT all suffered from it. I cant speak for anything after ENT, though it sounds like PIC did the same (for different reasons). B5 was kind of that way as well, but S1 and 2 were more worldbuilding/story setup for later seasons than anything else so it makes a little more sense in that context. Picard seasons 1 and 2 were off, I think, because they wanted the show to be entirely about Picard. What made TNG special was the chemistry of the cast. It was a brilliant move bringing them back for season 3. It really redeemed the series. Watching the season really made everyone realize how much we had missed these characters. It was a joy to see them all together again. When Picard and Crusher see each other again for the first time in 20 years on the bridge of the Titan, neither of them say a word to each other. But so much was said between them in the moment anyway. Just great character moments. |
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Originally Posted By TheLASwamp: There was a theory that season 3 of Picard might involve them in some fashion but that didn't happen. It would have been interesting to see that story continued. The premise was introduced and then subsequently dropped the next season, never to be mentioned again. They tortured Icheb from Voyager because the actor said something slightly less left of center. All nutrek sucks and hates the source material, and no amount of pandering late matters. Federation has a case over Data in Measure of A Man, "you ask us to seek out new life well there it sits!" And then the Federation has android slaves they abuse as a basis for their economy. Then Picard is dead and a clone android. [Critical drinker]Fuck off, film![/criticsl drinker] |
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Originally Posted By TheLASwamp: It took a while for TNG to find its sea legs, so to speak. The first season, they were trying to figure out a lot of details about who they were and what they were doing as a series. By the end of the second season, they seemed to have an idea about where they wanted to go with the show. I recall B5 was much the same way. Both shows got much better as they got into the series. I remember TNG being a much better show by the third season. It was far more cohesive and enjoyable. Yeah, it’s painful. When TNG originally aired/premiered I was in a Ranger Bn and lived in the barracks, didn’t have cable, was in Ranger school, deployed, training, etc. so, I don’t really recall ever seeing it until maybe summer of ‘88 and saw it playing on TV. It was basically a bald captain, some dude with an air cleaner on his head, on the bridge and the minute or few I saw just wasn’t interested/seemed virtually unrelated to TOS. (Don’t get me wrong, TOS had some stinker episodes, etc.). But when you are a little kid in the early 70s TOS was about as good as it got for sci Fi popping up on TV. In the summer of ‘90, I had finished a 4 year enlistment, was in the guard/reserves, had an apartment, was about to start college. Some local station aired the current episodes as they came out once a week, and also repeats of the current season, nightly TOS syndication, and nightly repeats/syndication or whatever of past seasons and the current season. So, I guess a repeat of the current, just finished season was on. It had a romulan defector, Klingon warbirds surprise arrive to back the enterprise against the romulans, a suicide, etc. and I was like- This is pretty good. So, over a couple of years I ended up seeing all TOS episodes, the repeats of the first few TNG episodes, and got current and finished TNG. Maybe I missed a few TNG episodes, and DS9- I’ll see as I go through them. I caught most of seasons 1-4 of DS9 and 1 of Voyager, but really missed most past that. But yeah, I’m part way through S1 of TNG and how many reused scripts, holodeck episodes, etc… |
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Originally Posted By Sirveaux: I went with TNG on DVD. I want the quality the same. Watching it on a 65" tv in hi def4k or whatever vs 24" tv on broadcast tv are very different quality. Red Letter Media did a whole video on the little things they can see, like set repairs and things. I don't need to see that, nor do I want to. That's not what the show was. I feel the same about ToS, TAS, DS9, Babylon 5, and Voyager. I have no opinion on Enterprise. TNG Season 1 is bad. Writing sucks. Season 2 less so. The thing I have noticed more and more is that Worf is always right, and always ignored, and every episode would be 5 minutes long if they listened to his security advice. With the exception of Drumhead, where he's probably got so much pent up security angst he goes nuts. I understand that and respect that. I saw TOS on a black and white 13 inch TV. And TNG on a 19” color TV OTA broadcast. While I would not want to see a crazy update like they did with the original Star Wars trilogy, I’m pretty happy with how it’s looking. |
| Season one of TNG contained several stories based on re-worked scripts intended for season three of TOS. Some even resemble the material that was re-worked for the Animated Series. Wesley was supposed to be part of a trinity involving Riker and Picard: each character having a different outlook based on their maturity and life experience. The writers never really embraced that idea and wrote for his character as if he was 12 years old rather than a young adult of 16 or 17. |
If you watch Chaos on the Bridge, it explains a lot about why stuff was the way it was. It's free on several streaming services. William Shatner Presents: Chaos on the Bridge |
If you are putting a lot of effort into arguing with me, you are probably really just wasting your time, sorry.
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Originally Posted By zentradi: If you watch Chaos on the Bridge, it explains a lot about why stuff was the way it was. It's free on several streaming services.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfYfeWEgnxUYeah, it sounds horrible, and I appreciate GR coming up with the concept for ST. But…. I always got the vibe he was kind of a hack and ego type whose writing and weird, perfect future, despite being a greedy, hard drinking, womanizing type… Really detracted from the future of the franchise. It might not be fair, But after his end with the involvement, the break away from trying to recycle scripts, etc. made for a much better show/future. |
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I love STNG, and it has one of the greatest endings ever. I consider DS9 part 2 of STNG, and the Dominion Wars are awesome. My theory is that if Q never intervened with the Borg stuff, the Federation would have been wasted by the Dominion. It's all one giant story arc. Ain't nothing perfect, but there is so much of it I enjoy. |
If you are putting a lot of effort into arguing with me, you are probably really just wasting your time, sorry.
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Originally Posted By ramairthree: I understand that and respect that. I saw TOS on a black and white 13 inch TV. And TNG on a 19” color TV OTA broadcast. While I would not want to see a crazy update like they did with the original Star Wars trilogy, I’m pretty happy with how it’s looking. The DVDs I have for ToS have the remastered effects, which are okay when dealing with scenes with people, but the ship CGI effects don't have the same charm. But they're still ok. What I did notice that threw me off was they rerecorded the score. It took me a while to notice it, but it didn't sound the same. The rerecorded score had a new chick singing who didn't have the same period kind of sound, like they were doing something new and weird. For the modern singer, she'd heard the theme a million times and it wasn't the same, and thus it didn't have that strange quality to it of doing something wild and 60s. They also put it over Kirk's voiceover too loud. It's like the difference between one of those famous "they just did it live at the studio and took the take from 2AM" stories vs the version made decades later. Sometimes subtle things, but I just kinda like the original the way it was experienced. Same for TNG. |
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TNG didn't get consistently good until Gene Roddenberry was too ill to manage it. Seasons 3 - 6 are some of the best TV ever, and the graphics don't even matter. You can listen to episodes in the car with no video and they come across great as an audio drama because they're so well-written. Season 1 is pretty painful. Men in skirts, Captain Picard apologizing profusely in every episode to everyone in sight for how bad humans used to be, Wesley Crusher might have been the worst TV mistake in all of the 20th century, and then they killed off the only character I found relatable (Tasha Yar) with the most pointless death ever. But about halfway through Season 3 it just suddenly gets very, very good. |
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Originally Posted By ramairthree: And, as much crap as he has gotten, and as painful as seeing him become Wesley Sue instantly, I don’t find the character AS annoying as I did on first watch decades ago. Maybe having raised kids to adulthood, I’m just more tolerant of some teenager now, than say in my 20s. It's because comparable films and shows today are so much worse. I forget if it's STD or one of the other shit treks where they have the porcine-looking flab-based female human lifeform yell "fuck yeah, science", which is just bonesnappingly insipid. Compare that to Wesley and his constant endangering of the ship through dangerously reckless things, but in those events at least he doesn't look like a denizen of the idiocracy world dropped into a flashy sci-fi background. This makes him not look quite so bad. It's like forgetting how bad the ewoks were in Jedi because you have Gungans to compare them to, or worse yet, porgs. It's not that Wesley isn't an insufferable douche, it's that in old trek, he was terrible. Now, there's so much vile shit in nutrek that he seems positively tame. |
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Originally Posted By Sirveaux: It's because comparable films and shows today are so much worse. I forget if it's STD or one of the other shit treks where they have the porcine-looking flab-based female human lifeform yell "fuck yeah, science", which is just bonesnappingly insipid. Compare that to Wesley and his constant endangering of the ship through dangerously reckless things, but in those events at least he doesn't look like a denizen of the idiocracy world dropped into a flashy sci-fi background. This makes him not look quite so bad. It's like forgetting how bad the ewoks were in Jedi because you have Gungans to compare them to, or worse yet, porgs. It's not that Wesley isn't an insufferable douche, it's that in old trek, he was terrible. Now, there's so much vile shit in nutrek that he seems positively tame. I can’t 100% discount your theory - But I think it was more of- JFC, this 15 year old is just plopped in with everything handed to him on a silver plater, and he’s already smarter than all the smart people he is surrounded by, but let’s set him up with hints of being the ultimate Uber-ascending evolving into a god prodigy extra, super special… But he gets googly eyed around girls, can’t get into Star fleet, but gets a commission, but gets kicked out of star fleet, but… |
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Originally Posted By ramairthree: I can’t 100% discount your theory - But I think it was more of- JFC, this 15 year old is just plopped in with everything handed to him on a silver plater, and he’s already smarter than all the smart people he is surrounded by, but let’s set him up with hints of being the ultimate Uber-ascending evolving into a god prodigy extra, super special… But he gets googly eyed around girls, can’t get into Star fleet, but gets a commission, but gets kicked out of star fleet, but… I use one specific episode of TNG as an example of some of the symptoms of how Wesleys writing is bad. In one episode the Enterprise squares up to conduct a 1v1 combat exercise against a much older Federation ship (already dubious, but 'ok). While preparing for this Wesley manages to get his science experiment brought onboard the OPFOR ship (with the specific intention of using it to cheat the military exercise); an experiment that contains anti-matter of all things. Ferengi shenanigans transpire and the anti-matter in Wesleys expermient is key in saving the day. So, your telling me that someone in a position of power and that should know better... gave a kid enough anti-matter to allow a starship to go to warp... even if only for an instant? Considering how dangerous anti-matter is (and is in universe), how is that anything but criminal negligence of the highest order? Thats like a scientist from a national lab giving a teenage kid a pellet of weapons grade plutonium to play with for a science fair. On top of that, nobody really seemed to care in the end that he and the rest knowingly attempted to subvert a military exercise (thus invalidating any findings from the exercise)? But hey, it works as a way to make Wesley the hero of the story and show just how brilliant he is. |
| I recently binge watched Enterprise. I've been leapfrogging around Voyager but find many of the episodes unwatchable. TNG and DS9 will probably wait until next winter at this point |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By darkpaladin1: I use one specific episode of TNG as an example of some of the symptoms of how Wesleys writing is bad. In one episode the Enterprise squares up to conduct a 1v1 combat exercise against a much older Federation ship (already dubious, but 'ok). While preparing for this Wesley manages to get his science experiment brought onboard the OPFOR ship (with the specific intention of using it to cheat the military exercise); an experiment that contains anti-matter of all things. Ferengi shenanigans transpire and the anti-matter in Wesleys expermient is key in saving the day. So, your telling me that someone in a position of power and that should know better... gave a kid enough anti-matter to allow a starship to go to warp... even if only for an instant? Considering how dangerous anti-matter is (and is in universe), how is that anything but criminal negligence of the highest order? Thats like a scientist from a national lab giving a teenage kid a pellet of weapons grade plutonium to play with for a science fair. On top of that, nobody really seemed to care in the end that he and the rest knowingly attempted to subvert a military exercise (thus invalidating any findings from the exercise)? But hey, it works as a way to make Wesley the hero of the story and show just how brilliant he is. Of course. There’s even an episode where he makes a pair of nano bots that almost destroy the ship and von Neumann their asses into an entire new race of sapient beings. Because a kid fell asleep doing his homework/side genius hobby/between shifts on the bridge, etc. What I’m saying is even though I despised the very concept of the character decades ago, And would angrily think he should have got the death penalty for almost destroying the ship, etc. Like, the entire concept I wish was not a part of the show. I more see now how he was a teenager in over his head - often in horribly written scenarios they would not possibly be in, etc. And, if he had just been a regular 15 year old caught up in stuff it would have been an interesting concept. (Regular for ST, where every single human seems to have an IQ of at least 130 and does calculus in grade school-for all their anti-eugenics and genetic engineering talk something has gone on.)w |
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Originally Posted By darkpaladin1: I use one specific episode of TNG as an example of some of the symptoms of how Wesleys writing is bad. In one episode the Enterprise squares up to conduct a 1v1 combat exercise against a much older Federation ship (already dubious, but 'ok). While preparing for this Wesley manages to get his science experiment brought onboard the OPFOR ship (with the specific intention of using it to cheat the military exercise); an experiment that contains anti-matter of all things. Ferengi shenanigans transpire and the anti-matter in Wesleys expermient is key in saving the day. So, your telling me that someone in a position of power and that should know better... gave a kid enough anti-matter to allow a starship to go to warp... even if only for an instant? Considering how dangerous anti-matter is (and is in universe), how is that anything but criminal negligence of the highest order? Thats like a scientist from a national lab giving a teenage kid a pellet of weapons grade plutonium to play with for a science fair. On top of that, nobody really seemed to care in the end that he and the rest knowingly attempted to subvert a military exercise (thus invalidating any findings from the exercise)? But hey, it works as a way to make Wesley the hero of the story and show just how brilliant he is. Originally Posted By darkpaladin1: Originally Posted By ramairthree: I can’t 100% discount your theory - But I think it was more of- JFC, this 15 year old is just plopped in with everything handed to him on a silver plater, and he’s already smarter than all the smart people he is surrounded by, but let’s set him up with hints of being the ultimate Uber-ascending evolving into a god prodigy extra, super special… But he gets googly eyed around girls, can’t get into Star fleet, but gets a commission, but gets kicked out of star fleet, but… I use one specific episode of TNG as an example of some of the symptoms of how Wesleys writing is bad. In one episode the Enterprise squares up to conduct a 1v1 combat exercise against a much older Federation ship (already dubious, but 'ok). While preparing for this Wesley manages to get his science experiment brought onboard the OPFOR ship (with the specific intention of using it to cheat the military exercise); an experiment that contains anti-matter of all things. Ferengi shenanigans transpire and the anti-matter in Wesleys expermient is key in saving the day. So, your telling me that someone in a position of power and that should know better... gave a kid enough anti-matter to allow a starship to go to warp... even if only for an instant? Considering how dangerous anti-matter is (and is in universe), how is that anything but criminal negligence of the highest order? Thats like a scientist from a national lab giving a teenage kid a pellet of weapons grade plutonium to play with for a science fair. On top of that, nobody really seemed to care in the end that he and the rest knowingly attempted to subvert a military exercise (thus invalidating any findings from the exercise)? But hey, it works as a way to make Wesley the hero of the story and show just how brilliant he is. Wesley still sucks. Nutrek is just worse. The joking SFDebris theory is Picard just wants to bang his mom and puts up with a lot of shit. Also she's a good doc he doesn't want to alienate. And again, wants to bone her. |
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And, if he had just been a regular 15 year old caught up in stuff it would have been an interesting concept. (Regular for ST, where every single human seems to have an IQ of at least 130 and does calculus in grade school-for all their anti-eugenics and genetic engineering talk something has gone on.)w Then he'd be Jake Sisko. Or better yet, Nog. |
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Originally Posted By 2ANut: TNG didn't get consistently good until Gene Roddenberry was too ill to manage it. Seasons 3 - 6 are some of the best TV ever, and the graphics don't even matter. You can listen to episodes in the car with no video and they come across great as an audio drama because they're so well-written. Season 1 is pretty painful. Men in skirts, Captain Picard apologizing profusely in every episode to everyone in sight for how bad humans used to be, Wesley Crusher might have been the worst TV mistake in all of the 20th century, and then they killed off the only character I found relatable (Tasha Yar) with the most pointless death ever. But about halfway through Season 3 it just suddenly gets very, very good. Tasha Yar was under-utilized on the show. I recall seeing an interview with Crosby where she hated having very few lines, and they could've had a double or a set of prop legs at her station and no one would've noticed she wasn't there. I don't feel Wesley was a mistake. I get the impression there were several young men in real life sci-fi nerds who were brighter than average, and the writers did injustice to them by the poor writing for Wesley. In the same way Spock's logic and McCoy's compassion were there for Kirk, Wesley's uncorrupted ambition and idealism could've played a role in a storie's outcome. |
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So, I’m still plugging along. In dec/jan/feb/March I had made it through season 1 and 2 and toward the end of season 3. I had said the seasons wrong somewhere above but in the beginning of April I had reached the point where howling mad Murdock was getting hooked on the holodeck, Troi’s mother was back yet again, etc. God some of those episodes were crap. And also picking up little things I didn’t catch on over air standard def 19 inch TV like betazoids have black irises. Since then, in the past two months or so I have finished season 3, with the big Picard Borg arc, and through season four into the first few of 5. So, the klingon civil war arc, and the darmok episode. I didn’t really like the episode when it first aired, but really appreciated it this time. I find season 3 better than 1 and 2, and 4 better than 3. Off the top of my head, looking back to when they first aired, and I saw seasons 4,5,6,7 in real time, I rember thinking the first three seasons I was seeing as reruns were weak. Season 4 in real better than all of those, season five better than four- And that was peak. I remember thinking season 6 and 7 were not as good as 5, and at best tied with four but probably not. It will be interesting to see what I think now. There have also been a few episodes I realize I missed and have never seen. Before long I will be coming up on where DS9 will start. I’ll probably just keep one series in the blu ray player and another in a second player and alternate episodes. Which will take me to the end of TNG the first two seasons of DS9. And in real time decades ago I saw almost all of the episodes. Possibly all. Then dual player Voyager and DS9. I’m guessing I saw around 2/3 of seasons 3 and 4 of DS9, And seasons 1 and 2 of Voyager. Then maybe 1/3 of season 5 and 6 of DS9 and season 3 and 4 of voyager. I don’t think I saw any of season 7 or DS9 or season 5 of voyager. Then maybe 20% of seasons 6 and 7 of voyager. So it will be interesting catching those. |
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DS9 is pretty good, and you may as well watch Babylon 5 while you're at it. Comparisons will be made, in no small part because DS9 did rip off Bab5. DS9 was still good on its own. Voyager is summed up frequently by SFDebris as "wasted potential". Voyager often has interesting ideas that just go nowhere, or interesting premise that's completely ignored in favor of something dumb. It still feels like Trek, but it's frequently weak. I'd recommend looking up the SFDebris reviews of any Trek you liked or disliked a lot. Frequently he fills in the backstory. Before his reviews, I never processed the idea that the title credits with "screenplay by x, y, z, and v" would frequently be such bad news. His review of the Voyager "year of hell" episodes really make the point on the wasted potential. Sometimes they also explain bad episodes or good ones, too, as he frequently covers behind the scenes things on writing or production events leading to episodes. |
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I have reached that point of say late ‘93/about to be 1994. DS9 is in its second season / first full season and TNG is in its 7th/final season, So far, after the DS9 necessary evil episode, and coming up on halfway through the final TNG season- I remember the real time thoughts well. Some guy at the gym had the hots for Major Kira, which I did t understand. She seemed like she would be more at home in a Subaru or Saturn blaring Indigo Girls or KD Lang while hanging out with Ellen than a good time. He also liked Ensign Ro. Which I could more see. Regardless, Dax had the hotness. Around this time, back in late ‘93- I had the vibe that DS9 had the potential to be a really good show, and that TNG was just phoning it in. In retrospect, rewatching it- That’s even more obvious. Combined with knowing now that they were concurrently filming Generations and knew they were wrapping it up. |
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I rewatch DS9 every year. This year I added TNG and Voyager to the mix. I skip the first season on all 3 though. The juice just isn’t worth the squeeze. TNG is better than I remember 9 episodes out of 10. DS9 hardly ever misses. VOY is…. Voyager just misses. Almost every episode. |
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Originally Posted By 2ANut: TNG didn't get consistently good until Gene Roddenberry was too ill to manage it. Seasons 3 - 6 are some of the best TV ever, and the graphics don't even matter. You can listen to episodes in the car with no video and they come across great as an audio drama because they're so well-written. Season 1 is pretty painful. Men in skirts, Captain Picard apologizing profusely in every episode to everyone in sight for how bad humans used to be, Wesley Crusher might have been the worst TV mistake in all of the 20th century, and then they killed off the only character I found relatable (Tasha Yar) with the most pointless death ever. But about halfway through Season 3 it just suddenly gets very, very good. "Geordie, tell me about...Tashar Yar." |
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Ok, so in the past nine to 10 months I have finished ST TNG seasons 1-7, And yeah, they really just phoned in the last season. And the first two season of DS9. Where it is starting to find its footing. We don’t quite “know” Sisko yet. Dax I think would have been a far more interesting and charismatic character with a little less weirdness about some of her previous hosts. Kira also I never quite warmed up to. O’Brien was never a favorite of mine and his wife drove me up a wall. I do find it interesting having a less senior, more junior medical officer winging it in the middle of nowhere. Quark is starting to get beyond comic relief, and making a bad species of the weak/failed new nemesis species have a more interesting, filled out role. And the Cardassians are becoming a more complex empire, that while not the Klingons, Romulans, or Vulcans, are now well beyond 2D. Sure, they had a head start in TNG. Basically I am where I was 30 years ago in real time. TNG is over. First two, well one and a half seasons of DS9 done. Season 3 of DS9 about to start. A movie with both TOS and TNG characters about to come out in a few months. (I’ll watch it about 8 episodes into S2 of DS9 like it would have been) There are rumors of a new ST series with a female captain that will spin off from some threads/elements from both TNG and DS9. |
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VOY is…. Voyager just misses. Almost every episode. Voyager was too much like STNG. Hit the reset button and reset the ship and crew each week. It would've been better if it was more like DS9 and had a more serial approach. Voyager is more of a short haul ship intended for duty within the Federation space. After 7 years in the Delta quadrant, the ship should look like it was patched with duct tape and zip ties. Over the period of the series, it would've been neat to see it slowly get modified and refitted with alien technology. |
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Originally Posted By Moondog: Voyager was too much like STNG. Hit the reset button and reset the ship and crew each week. It would've been better if it was more like DS9 and had a more serial approach. Voyager is more of a short haul ship intended for duty within the Federation space. After 7 years in the Delta quadrant, the ship should look like it was patched with duct tape and zip ties. Over the period of the series, it would've been neat to see it slowly get modified and refitted with alien technology. Originally Posted By Moondog: VOY is…. Voyager just misses. Almost every episode. Voyager was too much like STNG. Hit the reset button and reset the ship and crew each week. It would've been better if it was more like DS9 and had a more serial approach. Voyager is more of a short haul ship intended for duty within the Federation space. After 7 years in the Delta quadrant, the ship should look like it was patched with duct tape and zip ties. Over the period of the series, it would've been neat to see it slowly get modified and refitted with alien technology. I've mentioned it before, but Chuck from SFDebris calls Voyager wasted potential. So many episodes could have gone one way and don't. The reset button wastes things, the falling back to familiar like using the kazons/poor man's klingons, forgetting the Maquis/Federation split in the crew, etc. He makes a good case that the "year of hell" episodes are what the series was supposed to be, but it was viewed as too dark. Hence, reset, and made to be like TNG just to keep the "fuck convenience store in space" fans happy. I also agree SFDebris' argument that keeping the Harry Kim from "year of hell" would've been an awesome way to keep the character relevant, as well as add some harsh depth to the story. Kim as a 1000-yard stare lost man from a doomed ship where he has seen everyone around him die, watching everyone he passes in the halls and knowing he's seen them die once, would have been awesome. A Harry Kim who would just put on Lt Commander rank and when someone tells him off for him being an ensign in this world he just says "I saw your guts strewn from engineering to cargo bay 1, pulled out by an extradimenional entity that lived on fear" and then walk off, would have been fucking awesome. There are some really good episodes of Voyager, and usually they're the ones that involve Voyager the least. "Living Witness" is great, where anthropologists of the future analyze the impact a visit from Voyager has. Voyager is so many episodes of "what if this didn't suck?" But it also isn't people taking pictures of their asshole as a plot point, mocking the rest of the entire genre, two dicked alien pissing, "fuck yeah science" or any other lens flare woke garbage of today. |
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PlutoTV has trek on stream on 3 different channels TOS/TNG/Enterprise Voyager DS9 I agree with all the above posts for the most part. However, I still enjoy watching all of the various series except TOS. I just haven't gotten in to them. Grew up with TNG and newer, so going back to TOS looks dated and I have trouble getting in to them. I've probably re-watched Voyager and DS9 the most. I can critique Voyager the most. A lot of episodes are the same formula (meet aliens, misunderstanding, conflict, resolution) and I get tired of the time travel fixes for everything. I think all of the major characters time travel to save the ship at one point or another during the series. |
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Ok, I’ve finished TNG- With a small number of pleasant surprises with episodes I had not seen. I thought I had caught all of them. I’m in that window where DS9 is the lone show, and Voyager coming up. It’s definitely found its feet. A few more pleasant surprises of episodes I had never seen. That’s going to be even more surprises from now on as I missed a lot of DS9 and Voyager from ‘94- ‘01. Missed more than I saw. I need to squeeze in some of the movies as well as with the expedition of First Contact I have not seen them since they were released. I have mixed feelings about starting Voyager. It could have been great. Before I start, my recollection is the NeeliX and elf girl characters drove me up a wall. The went full retard on NA stuff with the first officer- who lacked stature, physique, charisma, looks, - basically everything. Maybe on rewatch or with seeing all the episodes that will change. It took me a while to warm up to Riker. The Captain- my recollection is they were a dutiful, just , trim and fit Captain entering middle age with no family / kids- not ugly but not too good looking- But also completely devoid of any charisma. I recall liking their take on the medical officer, the addition of the Borg years into the series, - but, just as with TNG and DS9- WTF was with all the hologram episodes? With an unlimited potential of aliens, worlds, etc. If TOS and TNG were the prototype starship series and its successor, and DS9 a mix of starship/space station/and star gate genre, I guess voyager kind of fell into the lost in space/star ship/ space 1999 genre. None of which had a hologram need for plots. It will be interesting as I will be seeing a lot of episodes I have never seen, and have never seen either DS9 or Voyager through like I did with TOS and TNG. Now, I never saw Enterprise when it aired, but did binge it over a year maybe a decade ago. It- aside from some weird history/ret con kind of stuff- seem enjoyable for the most part and went heavy into fan service in the later part. |
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Originally Posted By zentradi: I love STNG, and it has one of the greatest endings ever. I consider DS9 part 2 of STNG, and the Dominion Wars are awesome. My theory is that if Q never intervened with the Borg stuff, the Federation would have been wasted by the Dominion. It's all one giant story arc. Ain't nothing perfect, but there is so much of it I enjoy. I've never thought of DS9 being a part 2, but it kind of makes sense. Off I go to rewatch both. |
DeltaElite777: It's not enough to just para bellum. If you really vis pacem, you gotta convince any potential troublemaker that not only can you push their shit in Genghis Khan-style, but you will.
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I like TNG, but… - the endless holodeck season sucked ass- in fact, any episode reliant on the holodeck sucked - Whoopi Goldberg sucked - Wesley Crusher sucked - there were about 2x too many Q episodes - using Q as a rhetorical “get out of jail free” card was weak - Ryker trying to “act” was mostly painful |
Not fly enough to be halal....
| I watched and re-watched TNG so much over the years I can almost quote lines from every episode. It's the one I grew up with a kid and is endlessly re-watchable especially since I've been able to expose my kids and wife to it. I watched a few episodes of DS9 and VOY when I was a kid but DS9 came on late at night and VOY was on UPN which we didn't have so I only caught an episode here and there. As I've gone back and watched the both of them again, I can appreciate DS9 more now and VOY way less so. VOY has a few good episodes but its A VERY FEW. Scrolling through the short episode descriptions on Netflix and now Paramount+ (which has got to be THE WORST streaming service in existence) I find myself only being interested in re-watching a couple of VOY episodes each season. As others have mentioned, it had a lot of potential and that sucks that we didn't get to see what could've been. Year of Hell was probably the peak of Voyager viewing for me and I see that I'm not alone in that but in the end, it's all still way better than anything NuTrek has to offer. |
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OK. I have made it through DS9. I had seen all of the 1993 Season when they aired. Almost all of the 93-94 season. And at least half or most of the 94-95 and 95-96. 96-97 and 97-98 def less than half. And virtually none of 98-99. Which was a weak season in some ways but There were some amazing episodes. With some absolute duds sprinkled in. The overall arc, tie ins, character development, shift to a federation at war, Vulcan, Romulan, Klingon, Cardassian interactions, shady “pope” subverting the Bajoran religion, etc. was incredible. TOS was essentially episodic. TNG was essentially episodic with a shift to arc, and I guess the recipe figured out but never had the full time in the oven. DS9 had its ups and downs, but it must have been an incredible experience in real time to follow it week by week and season by season. Life got so busy for me I didn’t catch how strong it got when it reached its peak back then. |
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Originally Posted By zach_: SEVEN!!! Yes, I saw a decent amount of the ‘95 season, And the 95-96 season when they aired. Half or less of the 96-97 and 97-98. Then virtually none of 98-99, 99-00, and 00-01. Back when they aired. So, I know and appreciated the great addition to the cast 7 of 9 was. I have watched the first two seasons of Voyager recently. I look forward to getting to the episodes with her in it. |
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We didn't have a VCR at home, so I only caught a few episodes of TNG when it first aired. It wasn't until the 2000's when I was able to DVR the show when the Sci-Fi network was having a Star Trek marathon. The first season is awful, but it got better over time. I also enjoyed watching season 3 of Picard. |
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Originally Posted By Ridgeline: Loved TNG as a teen. Tried to watch it again during the rona shut downs and couldn't believe how mind numbingly slow paced the show was. I bet I made it through 2 dozen and just couldn't go on. They are really slow. I found myself skipping some episodes entirely, or zoning out and realizing I was an episode or two later.  Voyager could be like that too. DS9 I feel like wasn't as bad, but probably 2-3 per season were slow paced or just down right boring. |
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Wesley was Roddenberry's self-insert Author Avatar. The kid he wanted* to be. Which is why Season 1 and 2 Wesley is so incredibly insufferable but isn't quietly murdered...and why Wesley starts showing up less and less as soon as Roddenberry was too sick to be involved in the Writing. Wesley (eventually) got largely rehabbed by nostalgia and Wil Wheaton apparently being a really nice guy. *-Seriously, read up on what Roddenberry really wanted to include in Star Trek (when the revival built enough momentum to bring him back and get Phase II/The Motion Picture rolling), but Paramount and CBS wouldn't let him. Everybody in the 24th Century is a nudist. Humans stay home and meditate, save for the lunatic thrill-seekers who join Starfleet. Hints at things like pedophilia being normalized and consent being automatic. If you've read his novelization of The Motion Picture....the Enterprise was basically there to transport Kirk to more and better supplies of receptive females. When they were putting TNG together, he went hard (LOL) into the Ferengi. How they used machines to control females of all species into mating with them, the size and shape of their dicks, their preferred sex positions, etc. Eventually, someone from the Studio had to sit him down and remind him that they were gonna be broadcasting this shit at 7:00 PM Eastern on Sunday nights, and he needed to stop subjecting the Writing staff to his jerkoff fantasies. Risa was rescued from his spank-heap, becoming the "Amusement Park/Resort Planet", instead of Gene's vision of "Orgy Planet". |
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Originally Posted By ramairthree: Ok, so in the past nine to 10 months I have finished ST TNG seasons 1-7, And yeah, they really just phoned in the last season. And the first two season of DS9. Where it is starting to find its footing. We don't quite "know" Sisko yet. Dax I think would have been a far more interesting and charismatic character with a little less weirdness about some of her previous hosts. Kira also I never quite warmed up to. O'Brien was never a favorite of mine and his wife drove me up a wall. I do find it interesting having a less senior, more junior medical officer winging it in the middle of nowhere. Quark is starting to get beyond comic relief, and making a bad species of the weak/failed new nemesis species have a more interesting, filled out role. And the Cardassians are becoming a more complex empire, that while not the Klingons, Romulans, or Vulcans, are now well beyond 2D. Sure, they had a head start in TNG. Basically I am where I was 30 years ago in real time. TNG is over. First two, well one and a half seasons of DS9 done. Season 3 of DS9 about to start. A movie with both TOS and TNG characters about to come out in a few months. (I'll watch it about 8 episodes into S2 of DS9 like it would have been) There are rumors of a new ST series with a female captain that will spin off from some threads/elements from both TNG and DS9. Yes, Keiko O'Brien and Miles had ZERO chemistry. Terrible casting choice for Keiko. |
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Originally Posted By Moondog: Voyager was too much like STNG. Hit the reset button and reset the ship and crew each week. It would've been better if it was more like DS9 and had a more serial approach. Voyager is more of a short haul ship intended for duty within the Federation space. After 7 years in the Delta quadrant, the ship should look like it was patched with duct tape and zip ties. Over the period of the series, it would've been neat to see it slowly get modified and refitted with alien technology. |
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Originally Posted By AV1611: Yes, Keiko O'Brien and Miles had ZERO chemistry. Terrible casting choice for Keiko. Originally Posted By AV1611: Originally Posted By ramairthree: Ok, so in the past nine to 10 months I have finished ST TNG seasons 1-7, And yeah, they really just phoned in the last season. And the first two season of DS9. Where it is starting to find its footing. We don't quite "know" Sisko yet. Dax I think would have been a far more interesting and charismatic character with a little less weirdness about some of her previous hosts. Kira also I never quite warmed up to. O'Brien was never a favorite of mine and his wife drove me up a wall. I do find it interesting having a less senior, more junior medical officer winging it in the middle of nowhere. Quark is starting to get beyond comic relief, and making a bad species of the weak/failed new nemesis species have a more interesting, filled out role. And the Cardassians are becoming a more complex empire, that while not the Klingons, Romulans, or Vulcans, are now well beyond 2D. Sure, they had a head start in TNG. Basically I am where I was 30 years ago in real time. TNG is over. First two, well one and a half seasons of DS9 done. Season 3 of DS9 about to start. A movie with both TOS and TNG characters about to come out in a few months. (I'll watch it about 8 episodes into S2 of DS9 like it would have been) There are rumors of a new ST series with a female captain that will spin off from some threads/elements from both TNG and DS9. Yes, Keiko O'Brien and Miles had ZERO chemistry. Terrible casting choice for Keiko. The more I think about it, the more I think that maybe it was a brilliant casting choice. The number of .mil senior enlisted folk I've seen who are unhappily married to a toxic spouse makes his situation seem pretty plausible to me. |
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Originally Posted By ramairthree: For Christmas the family bought me the TNG blu ray set and the DS9 set. I loved ST when I was a little kid. I’m not quite old enough to remember seeing any original run TOS. As a little kid in the early 70s I remember seeing episodes on TV on the weekends. And the Saturday morning cartoon when it originally ran. I don’t recall TNG when it started. I lived in the barracks and didn’t have cable and was like a PFC in Ranger Bn or in Ranger school or whatever when it started. Around Sep. 1990 to 1994 is when I was in a situation where I caught TOS and saw every episode, started watching that season of TNG, and also caught up on the rebroadcasts of the first few seasons. I started watching DS9 when it came out and also Voyager. I never caught all the episodes or completed those series. My plan is to little by little to through TNG and start DS9 mixed in just like it was when originally aired. Then go with DS9 until Voyager and mix them in, then finish that. I have seen all the movies. And, paradoxically, streamed enterprise a while back. As far as TNG blurays- They look amazing. Yes, it is dated sfx, and still in classic broadcast TV ratio, but everthing looks far better than the 19 inch color TV I saw them on. Amusingly, my modern big flat screen is feeding into the same analog amp and out the same speakers as when I first saw the episodes air. And the same VCR I taped many an episode on is still running. (The tv finally died around 2008, after about 20 years of service.) And it sounds great. And is neat still “feeling” the hum of the engines through those same speakers. It could have made a whole different direction for the series if they purused that tone and that conspiracy. Almost like the zentradi story arc in enterprise. |