User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:48:33 PM EST
First off, I'm a civilian and always have been.
Question for those who know: How are conflicting orders handled in the military? Say an O-3 approaches an E-3 and tells him to stand guard on the north wall of the firebase until dawn. The E-3 does just that. 15 minutes after he's set up on the north wall, an O-1 tells him to stand guard on the east wall until dawn. What happens? How is this handled? Let's look at three different scenarios: 1. The E-3 tells the O-1 about the captain's order. The O-1 tells the E-3 that he doesn't care and that his order to stand guard on the east wall still stands. The E-3 relocates to the east wall. 2. Same as #1 above, but after the O-1 leaves, the E-3 does not relocate to the east wall. 3. The E-3 never tells the O-1 about the captain's order. The E-3 follows the new order to move to the east wall. In case you're wondering where I got the ranks from (see the first sentence in this post):  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:50:19 PM EST
[#1]
E3 asks his supervisor who is an NCO.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:51:51 PM EST
[#2]
That's not really how orders are given. Tasks go down the chain of command.
ETA- if, for some odd reason, your scenario did happen, PFC would say, "sir, the CO tasked me with guarding the north wall. Take it up with him." Then, he'd tell his NCOIC that the O-grades are fucking with him and NCOIC makes sure that fucked up shit doesn't happen again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:52:22 PM EST
[#3]
0-1 gets raped by E9.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:53:06 PM EST
[#4]
Listen to your chain of command.
Some random O-3 isn’t going to tell some random E-3 to do anything. If your company commander tells you to do something, you do it. If your platoon leader comes up later and says do something else, you do that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:53:34 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 0-1 gets raped by E9. It could happen |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:54:29 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: E3 asks his supervisor who is an NCO. Wrong.. but yes |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:54:36 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your company commander tells you so do something, you do it. If your platoon leader comes up later and says do something else, you do that. I don't think that came out the way you meant it to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:55:02 PM EST
[#8]
E-3 chuckles and disregards the O-1's orders because he knows better and continues doing what the O-3 said......
but it would never happen like that....the O-3 would have tasked the E-3's platoon sgt, who in turn would have tasked the squad leader.....who in turn would have tasked the team leader of the E-3 to do the job....the O-1 can fuck off somewhere |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:55:23 PM EST
[#9]
They do the hokey pokey and they turn themselves around.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:56:15 PM EST
[#10]
Quoted: First off, I'm a civilian and always have been. Question for those who know: How are conflicting orders handled in the military? Say an O-3 approaches an E-3 and tells him to stand guard on the north wall of the firebase until dawn. The E-3 does just that. 15 minutes after he's set up on the north wall, an O-1 tells him to stand guard on the east wall until dawn. What happens? How is this handled? Let's look at three different scenarios: 1. The E-3 tells the O-1 about the captain's order. The O-1 tells the E-3 that he doesn't care and that his order to stand guard on the east wall still stands. The E-3 relocates to the east wall. 2. Same as #1 above, but after the O-1 leaves, the E-3 does not relocate to the east wall. 3. The E-3 never tells the O-1 about the captain's order. The E-3 follows the new order to move to the east wall. In case you're wondering where I got the ranks from (see the first sentence in this post): https://chainofcommand.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/2/4/12240927/578726924.gif?513 Option one is how it will play out... Trust me 0-3 will rape 0-1 in front of everyone.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:01:03 PM EST
[#11]
You are forgetting the whole concept of being in someones 'chain of command', i.e. in that persons organizational unit.
Because if someone in a unit is directed by a unit superior to stand a watch / duty, IDGAF what anyone else "senior" to the person standing the watch / duty says, it doesn't mean dick unless they are in that person's organizational unit AND have the responsibility / position to change the previous order. For example, the watch / duty supervisor tells your E-3 to stand guard. The O-1 in charge of the mess all / supply can say whatever he wants, but it's not in his job to change the watch / guard rotation. So even if you are senior, you can't go fucking with individuals from other units without a true reason. People don't blindly follow orders because someone is senior, they have to be in their chain of command as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:02:53 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are forgetting the whole concept of being in someones 'chain of command', i.e. in that persons organizational unit. Because if someone in a unit is directed by a unit superior to stand a watch / duty, IDGAF what anyone else "senior" to the person standing the watch / duty says, it doesn't mean dick unless they are in that person's organizational unit AND have the responsibility / position to change the previous order. So even if you are senior, you can't go fucking with individuals from other units without a true reason. IN bold no 03 would order an E3 without good cause. But rank has no boundaries... the Army is one |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:04:31 PM EST
[#13]
No offense OP, but yes, it's clear you HAVEN'T ever been in the military.
What really happens is, everyone, after the fact, tries to associate themselves with the decision to guard the CORRECT wall, as determined through hindsight, and to distance themselves as far as possible from any decision or order to guard the INCORRECT wall. The O-1, and likewise the O-3, live in fear of the O-6 or, God forbid, O-7 (or above), i.e., "the Old Man," who can end their career by merely twitching his eyebrow if something displeases him. O-1s generally try to remain "seen but not heard" if at all possible. Oh, and bossing someone else's E-3 around? That's just plain tacky. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:05:37 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 0-1 gets raped by E9.  Until he or she learns her lesson and never ever ever ever speaks to the troops without my permission - and in my presence*. * That cuts through all the "did you hear what the LT said at quarters yesterday" stories second hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:07:02 PM EST
[#15]
To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the Commanding Officer, Command Duty Officer, Officer of the Deck, and Officers and Petty Officers of the Watch only
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:08:14 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the Commanding Officer, Command Duty Officer, Officer of the Deck, and Officers and Petty Officers of the Watch only Navy 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:08:57 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: E-3 chuckles and disregards the O-1's orders because he knows better and continues doing what the O-3 said...... but it would never happen like that....the O-3 would have tasked the E-3's platoon sgt, who in turn would have tasked the squad leader.....who in turn would have tasked the team leader of the E-3 to do the job....the O-1 can fuck off somewhere Bingo! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:09:37 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are forgetting the whole concept of being in someones 'chain of command', i.e. in that persons organizational unit. Because if someone in a unit is directed by a unit superior to stand a watch / duty, IDGAF what anyone else "senior" to the person standing the watch / duty says, it doesn't mean dick unless they are in that person's organizational unit AND have the responsibility / position to change the previous order. For example, the watch / duty supervisor tells your E-3 to stand guard. The O-1 in charge of the mess all / supply can say whatever he wants, but it's not in his job to change the watch / guard rotation. So even if you are senior, you can't go fucking with individuals from other units without a true reason. People don't blindly follow orders because someone is senior, they have to be in their chain of command as well. /this I've stopped the commanding officer, the admiral ... and had to put a shotgun in the ear of an 0-5 once. Positional authority of the officer of the deck is all that and a bag of chips. You gotta' know your shit because you're acting under the direction and authority of the standing watch orders so you best know them inside and out. But I always walked my beat in a military manner, keeping alert at all times ... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:11:08 PM EST
[#19]
Id just say “respectfully sir captain dicktickler told me to stand watch here. Go talk to him about it.”
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:13:55 PM EST
[#20]
O-1 fucks off and hides because he heard that the CAPT gave the order, not the Capt.
Lol nobody knows Navy ranks outside the Navy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:14:00 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No offense OP, but yes, it's clear you HAVEN'T ever been in the military. What really happens is, everyone, after the fact, tries to associate themselves with the decision to guard the CORRECT wall, as determined through hindsight, and to distance themselves as far as possible from any decision or order to guard the INCORRECT wall. The O-1, and likewise the O-3, live in fear of the O-6 or, God forbid, O-7 (or above), i.e., "the Old Man," who can end their career by merely twitching his eyebrow if something displeases him. O-1s generally try to remain "seen but not heard" if at all possible. Oh, and bossing someone else's E-3 around? That's just plain tacky. This is no shit. I literally hid in the motor pool with the recovery unit. and every time we get a call to go get a busted track I was gone.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:14:30 PM EST
[#22]
Also general civilian with no experience. Not sure how it's handled but I am positive the decentralized nature of how we train our military would come into play.
Probably our biggest strength is individuals, so I'm not sure how it would work out but I'm pretty sure that guy would cover himself administratively while also taking advice from someone he trusted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:14:55 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Navy I just copied and pasted the first "general orders" I searched. Does it still not apply to the ops scenario? Or did I read it wrong. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:16:22 PM EST
[#24]
We argue about black and white horses and slap each other usually
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:16:33 PM EST
[#25]
What happened to follow the last order given?
When I was in, we were told to follow the last order given. If a Captain gave me an order as a lowly E3 I would have damn well followed it until told differently. If an O1 would have come by later and told me different, I would have followed that. If something was fucked up and E3 is far too low not the totem pole to question it. It’ll get figured out. Now, in my experience I had an incident happen at NTC kind of like this. I was the gunner on a tank, when the Tank Commander is away, the gunner takes over. We were in our defensive position for the night and getting cleaned up before dark. A hummer pulled up behind the tank and the BN CSM stepped out and asked us where our fighting positions were. We were attached to an infantry battalion. I told him we were in our fighting position. He said, no, your individual fighting positions. I asked him why we would need something like that. He said if we started taking indirect fire we would need a fighting position. I told him, “Sgt Major, if we start taking indirect fire, standing orders are for us to take this tank and go about five miles toward Tiefort Mt. We are not staying here, therefore, individual fighting positions make no sense.” He grumped and pissed a little more, but no way in hell was I going to get the guys off the tank to dig stupid fucking foxholes. He finally left, and I never heard a thing about it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:17:19 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just copied and pasted the first "general orders" I searched. Does it still not apply to the ops scenario? Or did I read it wrong. Yes kinda.. the scenario he is offering would be remote at the least |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:21:18 PM EST
[#27]
E-3 tells O-3 to go read the fucking watch bill submitted by the Chief and signed by the XO/CDO
I was Navy. Your military experience may vary. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:23:25 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Id just say “respectfully sir captain dicktickler told me to stand watch here. Go talk to him about it.” Right answer. But politely. But a Captain wouldn't be posting guards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:25:36 PM EST
[#29]
Go ask the E-5.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:27:44 PM EST
[#30]
O1, nobody listens to butterballs.
E3 would probably follow last order from O3 or talk to his NCOIC for clarity. Just more motivation to make E4 and become a sham master. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:32:09 PM EST
[#31]
I don't recall who's next above a staff duty nco, but if I'm duty nco and the officer above sdnco told me to do something I'd say "aye sir", if later on sdnco finds me and says cpl solidstate go back to your post, I'd say "aye staff Sergent" and do it. If random gysgt or someone comes in and tells me I need to leave my post, I'd say "no gunny". If I'm on armory guard or port guard and anyone of any rank from outside that guard chain of command tells me to leave my post, I won't.
Only time I remember conflicting orders are drill instructors kicking recruits out of the platoon, which was funny. And cpls trying to be funny giving people conflicting orders to see who he'd follow, which was annoying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:32:56 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Option one is how it will play out... Trust me 0-3 will rape 0-1 in front of everyone.. Smart O-1 will not set himself up for that. Unless your CO is an alcoholic who is drinking in the field and can't remember his orders (yeah it happened). |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:37:10 PM EST
[#33]
Guard duty has it's own special rules.
1. I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved. 2. I will obey my special orders and perform all my duties in a military manner. 3. I will report violations of my special orders, emergencies, and anything not covered in my instructions to the commander of the relief. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:38:13 PM EST
[#34]
Second day in OCS I was a student 1SGT. TACs ambushed me while on the way to the company street to form the company. Four of those MFs screaming at me at the same time except for the Sr. TAC. I focused on him while blocking the others out and answered his questions. We had a laugh about it when I graduated.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:39:14 PM EST
[#35]
That’s how 2LT Neidermeyer got fragged.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:48:00 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right answer. But politely. But a Captain wouldn't be posting guards. My eyes have seen dumber shit than that To OPs question- theres a chain of command, a good soldier would politely inform the officer that his most recent was in conflict with his prior order |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:50:20 PM EST
[#37]
When I was an O1 and I had tasks to assign, I'd talk to my chief or LPO and they'd task out the sailors. Now that I'm an O3, I talk to my O1/O2s with what I need done and they take it to the chief/LPO.
I rarely EVER needed to directly task my junior sailors. That's not how it works. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:55:14 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: O-1 fucks off and hides because he heard that the CAPT gave the order, not the Capt. Lol nobody knows Navy ranks outside the Navy. CAPT is O6, not O3. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:57:50 PM EST
[#39]
Look, if we are going to do this subject, let's do it RIGHT!
 Jack Webb, The DI- General Orders |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:00:18 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: O-1 fucks off and hides because he heard that the CAPT gave the order, not the Capt. Lol nobody knows Navy ranks outside the Navy. I was an E-7 Chief Petty Officer working on an Air Force base. After about the fifth or sixth time the other engineers made me call for a favor from public works or another department I got to wonder. Man these Air Force guys sure go out of the way to please this USN Chief.  Years later I returned to the same base and I was an E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer and Master Chief Paul wasn't getting served. Then I remembered. Chief Paul ... oh hell yes. They saluted my car when I drove onto the base until September 11th.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:01:42 PM EST
[#41]
Sgt of the Guard?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:02:26 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go ask the E-5.  Amen. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:08:55 PM EST
[#43]
The answer essentially is #1 + some responsibility deflection aka CYA. E3 informs the O1 about the orders from O3. And clarifies that he IS intending to modify the Captain's prior order. Most LTs will let it go at this point and say "carry on".
But if he doesn't, then now the LT owns it if it goes South. The E3 is only one rank below an E4. Once he's a made man in the E4 Mafia, he's not taking the blame for anything. If the O3 chews him out, he just says "everything was going smoothly, just as you ordered sir. .....until the LT came over and screwed things up. I told him what you instructed me to do. You need to go speak with him, sir." 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:10:40 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: E-3 chuckles and disregards the O-1's orders because he knows better and continues doing what the O-3 said...... but it would never happen like that....the O-3 would have tasked the E-3's platoon sgt, who in turn would have tasked the squad leader.....who in turn would have tasked the team leader of the E-3 to do the job....the O-1 can fuck off somewhere lol, chuckle O-1's. The most hated men in America Women O-1s are most likely worse |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:11:39 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are forgetting the whole concept of being in someones 'chain of command', i.e. in that persons organizational unit. Because if someone in a unit is directed by a unit superior to stand a watch / duty, IDGAF what anyone else "senior" to the person standing the watch / duty says, it doesn't mean dick unless they are in that person's organizational unit AND have the responsibility / position to change the previous order. For example, the watch / duty supervisor tells your E-3 to stand guard. The O-1 in charge of the mess all / supply can say whatever he wants, but it's not in his job to change the watch / guard rotation. So even if you are senior, you can't go fucking with individuals from other units without a true reason. People don't blindly follow orders because someone is senior, they have to be in their chain of command as well. In my limited experience with .mil, I understand that rank does not always equal authority. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:13:02 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My eyes have seen dumber shit than that Yup. So many that I could write a book. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:16:58 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Women O-1s are most likely worse Probably the ones wearing blue cords now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:18:13 PM EST
[#48]
I'm an O-3E.
The correct answer for the E-3 in this odd scenario would be for the E-3 to tactfully inform the O-1 of his previous order. If the O-1 doesn't rescind his decision then the E-3 should follow the new O-1 order. The E-3 does not know what discussions or decisions the O-3 and O-1 have made. The E-3 has a duty to follow lawful orders, and there's nothing to indicate that the O-1's order is unlawful. Thankfully this kind of scenario is not a common thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:21:17 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CAPT is O6, not O3. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:22:57 PM EST
[#50]
The E-3 goes to the commanding general and asks what order he should follow.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
