How come Socialism/Communism always fails? (Page 5 of 5)
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All government is an attempt to counter the nature of man and impose limits on his will. Communism just goes to the extreme of make believing self interest of any kind a sin. Socialists think they can cure that sinful nature by making property ownership illegal. And the children born into such a system would be "new men" full of ant-like collective ethics. Of course, they also thought simply planting orange seeds in cold climates would magically make cold resistant orange trees (genetics was capitalist bullshit science). In short, Communism fails for the same reason it keeps getting tried. Terminal wishful thinking. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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It fails in practice....it doesn't fail in methodology If it did we wouldn't hear about it anymore, it would die off like the wig party. We wouldn't have college kids jonesing for it, billionaires quietly funding it, and China spreading it around the globe. If it truly failed it would be gone. Communist are mental, have a better propaganda system, and play the long version. Freedom and liberty have bleeding hearts and placation, we have no widespread well funded drive to stomp out communism. |
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Originally Posted By staringback05: It fails in practice....it doesn't fail in methodology If it did we wouldn't hear about it anymore, it would die off like the wig party. We wouldn't have college kids jonesing for it, billionaires quietly funding it, and China spreading it around the globe. If it truly failed it would be gone. Communist are mental, have a better propaganda system, and play the long version. Freedom and liberty have bleeding hearts and placation, we have no widespread well funded drive to stomp out communism. We've had people trying versions of it centuries before Karl Marx was born. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By neuromancer1970: I wouldn’t call China successful because of socialism I would say they are successful in spite of socialism China’s economy only began growing after we began trading and offshoring our manufacturing capacity to them They are notorious for stealing IP. They got rich manufacturing things for capitalist countries not their own people. The government controls most of the wealth. Most if not all products china produces are designed in the west. 1960 Chinas gdp 60 billion 1960 us gdp 542 billion China’s growth only started as a result of market reforms in 1978 Private property Market completion and foreign trade I'm just vibe researching using ChatGPT but apparently all this is consistent with Marxism and could be the transition period that is allowed for by Marx and Engels in the Communist Manifesto. Marxism does not require elimination of all personal property but eventually would require state control of the means of production. However, in the transition period businesses could still be privately owned but state controlled. The end goal would be complete state ownership of the means of production but that ownership didn't have to be immediate. It could be argued that the successful communist nations are in this transition period. Also, as with religion there could be various sects that differ in how strictly they interpret the bible, in this case the bible being the Communist Manifesto. Cuba may be like the fundamentalist Babtists while China may be like the Lutherans. However, just as the fundamentalist Babtists and the Lutherans are both Christians, Cuba and China are both communist states. |
| Is there several European countries that have successful socialist governments? Not advocating for it but the DSA always cites those countries. |
“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.” James 1:8 KJV
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"Can a man who's warm understand one who's freezing?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Originally Posted By staringback05: And yet the idea is still here and growing Rich and powerful people behind the scenes influencing rubes to grow it regardless of its failed nature Originally Posted By staringback05: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: We've had people trying versions of it centuries before Karl Marx was born. And yet the idea is still here and growing Rich and powerful people behind the scenes influencing rubes to grow it regardless of its failed nature Yes, people are largely terminal wishful thinkers. They believe all kinds of dumb shit on the strength of how nice it sounds to them. Thats not new. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By DevilsEggAdvocate: If China's economy one day surpasses the US then it will have demonstrated that there can be a successful system that is not based on democracy and free markets. The fact that they've made as much progress as they've had in areas we think only advanced economies can (e.g. cars, AI, solar energy, nuclear energy, weapons, etc.) already suggests it's a successful alternative system. Under tyrannical rule. They surely aren't free people |
“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.” James 1:8 KJV
"Can a man who's warm understand one who's freezing?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
"Can a man who's warm understand one who's freezing?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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the term capitalism may be only 250 years old. (actually capitalism goes back much further) But whether through bartering, trading, cowrie shells, tulips, capitalism has been around forever. Acquisition of land for profit, slaves for profit, tulips, silver, gold, is but the basis of empires. Morice and de Beauchamp defined the term in their writings in the 19th century, but, building financial empires goes back much further than 250 years; think Venice, think the Netherlands, trading hot spots, think the Knights Templar, think Switzerland; consider the development of Islam and the trade routes from the East and the responding Crusades. |
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2: All government is an attempt to counter the nature of man and impose limits on his will. Communism just goes to the extreme of make believing self interest of any kind a sin. Socialists think they can cure that sinful nature by making property ownership illegal. And the children born into such a system would be "new men" full of ant-like collective ethics. Of course, they also thought simply planting orange seeds in cold climates would magically make cold resistant orange trees (genetics was capitalist bullshit science). In short, Communism fails for the same reason it keeps getting tried. Terminal wishful thinking. I don't even think Lysenko would have been as confused about gender as modern ideology has made things. |
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Originally Posted By zeekh: Under tyrannical rule. They surely aren't free people I agree, but it doesn't mean the the system isn't offering an alternative model to democracy/free market capitalism and appears to be succeeding. How do most people live their daily lives? Are they exercising political freedom daily, or are they going to work, going shopping, eating lunch and dinner, watching TV and just living daily life? Do most people REALLY care about political freedom or would most people be satisfied to live a reasonably prosperous, happy and FREE daily life even if they don't have political freedom and have to live by some strict rules? |
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Originally Posted By AlvinYork: How come they nearly always start with millions dying? If communism and socialism are so great how come they have to be lied about to come to fruition, how come they have to be enforced through violence and often with millions dying? They kill off those who were beneficiaries of the old system. To end the memories of a better time. And the Commies are ageists. They kill off the old ones who know how things work from experience by sending them to die in camps. Or working them to death for being bourgeoisie. 'Former people'. Or just kill them outright. It's always about punishment, humiliation, and death. Of creating and making way for a new 'enlightened' generation. Because that's what commies do. |
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*Do not Karen-tinize the Eschaton!!!*