But if you give them time to get help you're promoting a weak woke army.

In the DAF, after one year on a limited duty profile, a member is automatically referred to a medical board.  The outcome of that board can be retention, retention with a permanent restriction, medical seperation, or medical retirement.

A commander or medical provider can also refer to the board before one year, depending on the individual case.

Being on a limited duty profile does not exempt a member from basic standards, and if there are discipline or other issues adverse administrative actions and potential admin seperation are certainly possible.

My experience is old and dated; but even back in the day they were treated fairly. Everyone, no matter who you are has a breaking point; but everyone’s breaking point is different. The Military knows this. At this point they have a known commodity. If there is a slot open for him he can fit in they will keep him. If not, he is gone.

So, oddly, both of these assertions are true.

The “mission at all costs/fuck it/ drive on” attitude did cause problems to get bigger down the road, sometimes at great cost to the unit and the individual troop.

On the other hand, the “taking care of soldiers is the primary mission” attitude  does create weak coddled soldiers and soft units who aren’t any kind of resilient.

There’s always two sides to every coin.

30 days in the brig in the electric chair at low voltage and a sex change operation.  

mental "health" ain't what it used to be

This is absolutely untrue and perpetuates the fallacy that any sort of BH visit equates a review for separation based on performance.  This is in no way the case.

If you don't know what the fuck you are talking about keep it to yourself.  


I have personally dealt with tons of soldiers with BH issues from Private to Colonel.  It will start with an assessment of the overall issue, and if it's a self-referral or directed.  There are hundreds of pathways in between telephone counseling to various forms of therapy, to in-patient off-site programs that can be several months long.

As with any personal or medical scenario, there is no cookie cutter answer, it's a combination of local leadership, peers, and military and civilian health resources that combine to tailor a solution that is hopefully what's best for the soldier.  There are civilian programs available to soldiers, plus specific new treatment facilities dedicated to treatment areas such as the correlation between TBI and depression or OPTEMPO/work stress, among other things.

At no point was separation ever discussed unless well into the treatment the soldier/provider felt they could no longer perform their duties, or there was violence or criminal behavior attached.  Even suicidal ideation is not a direct path to separation. I've taken a Sergeant Major to BH for suicidal ideation and temporarily stored his guns for him, he's doing great now and still in. I've done the same for many soldiers and lower ranks as well.

I have had a half dozen active duty friends of mine kill themselves partially because of stigma related to seeking care, there is zero need for that ignorance.  The only people I have seen separated had violence or criminal activities involved, some of which were the result of a BH condition but for a few the BH condition was used to justify their actions.  In a couple instances I had soldiers that were going through some BH issues and determined the Army was the root cause of their family issues, which created personal issues.... and they wanted out.  It took them a long time and a lot of flags to throw to do so, the Army didn't just throw a medical discharge at them due to any of these concerns.  I had something like 30-40 medical appointments up on the board for them for months before they were allowed to medboard.

The Army health system generally just ridicules you until you suck it up and stop telling people that you’re depressed. If that doesn’t work they discharge you.

Not true, I was evac'd for SI from Kuwait in 2014, later that year I pinned E8 as a Master Sergeant, about a month after that I was assigned as an HHC 1SG where I served until retirement.  It depends on your past service, current chain of command, and compliance with treatment.  

Where people get fucked up for mental health issues is when they violate the UCMJ prior to or after seeking help.  Mental Health issues do not absolve you from your military duties or following the UCMJ and the orders of your Chain of Command.

I have known good Soldiers who broke for whatever reason- typically after a few deployments. They all got the help they needed with no blemishes on their record. Some even went inpatient for a few months. The ones that remained in service are all senior NCOs or officers now.

This.

Are we talking crying at work and walking into MH on your own or threading self harm or harm towards others?

I hope your friend is ok and gets the help he needs. The military can be seriously stressful and there’s nothing wrong with asking for help.

This, not trying to be a jerk, but this is the answer.

You forgot the water, and plenty of it.

OP, I want to clarify, the army is supposed to be comprised of people ready to go to war. If someone is unable to do that, then they need to get out.

A long podcast, but well worth it.   The Canadians just showed her the door!

Did we ever find out if she was legit or just a lunatic seeking attention?

Apparently many of her stories are suspicious.

It's nowhere near that simple.  Most issues for soldiers are the same issues that stress non-military people, except they are exacerbated by the military and things like PCS or OPTEMPO.  Family problems are the number one driver.

I've been to war lots of times with lots of pipe-hitting studs, almost all of whom would turn around and go back in a heartbeat. I see some of these guys that perform 120% for their country get kneecapped by a issue with a spouse or child while stateside and having little to nothing they can do to address the situation. That stress can be exponentially worse than a lot of PTSD cases.

The military needs to address these issues timely and correctly so that when the time comes to go back and do the mission soldiers are in the best possible situation to do so.  Blowing them off because "war is harder than your bullshit problems" is probably the stupidest take one could have on this.

With that said, combat is actually easier and less stressful than my CONUS military job, and I would argue I have one of the highest intensity jobs in the military while deployed.

Everything I've heard working with the military. If you seek help they help. If you're forced to get help then it's not as good.

No offense, but if he had something like a specific incident, PTSD, trauma, change in family situation, one of several triggers that are generally briefed to people, then that is really what the chain of command is trained to handle.  

Your words, he was working too hard.  How do you fix him? How do you rehab that?  If he deploys, he is working 24/7/365.  Someone is picking up his slack.

Its a lot easier to sell a treatment when there are concrete causes, effects, fixes, outcomes.  

I would recommend reclass to a softer MOS and tell him we recommend he not reenlist.   Unless he goes back to work and really busts his ass to prove me wrong.

I don't disagree, but if you have a high performing soldier who has family problems and child problems, it is much easier to address that then a soldier who has stress at work problems.   A soldier who is good at work but has other issues is actually easy or the CoC to justify treatment and care for.  

It could be that there are many details teh OP isnt providing, but Ive seen more then my share of these events and this one is coming in unusual and without details, triggers, and an obvious cause/effect/fix/solution.

Why dont we let a health care professional decide what the true reason why he's having mental health issues is. Maybe its something else thats underlining and not that he's just working to hard.

Im not a psychiatrist, therapist or a counselor. I rather stay in my lane than make assumptions about someones mental health. I've seen to many Soldiers and friends end their life to make assumptions.

Being that I have yet to see a legit "stress at work" case that did not have several additional contributing layers I tend to take a back seat and just let the pros do their job. I've had close friends that still weren't comfortable putting their issues on the table.

The one good thing about the backlog for health care related services for the military is that they are fairly quick to try and close cases if they aren't warranted.  Usually at that point if it's bullshit the soldier goes on a quest chasing any other issue that will get the what they want, making intent somewhat transparent.

Point being, I don't make that call at face value. If the soldier has a BH concern and it's CONUS meaning lives aren't on the line if they take some time to deal with it....let them go handle business without any threat of retribution. Squad leaders and Battalion commanders playing doctor and shrink on the side created a lot of the problems we face as a force today.

This is 100% wrong

1992..3-327...guy I knew, having mental issues,  gained weight. 1SG starts chapter paperwork to boot him out..1SG keeps stringing it along to fuck with him. We come out of the field, kid walks into C Co area, shoots 1SG an supply sgt, then kills himself..

Just one example.

As an outside person looking in, I see them evaluated in er, sent to a in hospital psych facility. And if needed transferred to civilian side and probably medically discharged if necessary.
VA also has their own in patient psych facilities as well.