I am not a Mason, but both my grandfathers were. I would like to sell their rings, but to who? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/26/2022 5:15:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tspike][Edited]
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Both of my grandfathers were Masons in Wisconsin back in the 30's thru 70's and I am in possession of several rings and a Grand Master medallion. I really don't want to sell them to a pawn shop or some random buyer of gold in a strip mall or on eBay and my kids have no interest in them. Are there collectors or such that anyone knows of that may be interested in them? Any help would be appreciated Thanks. |
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For the medallion, does it say presented to the Grand Master or by the Grand Master? If presented to a Grand Master, sometimes they are property of Grand Lodge and the expectation is that they are returned upon death. If presented by, it was most likely for meritorious service. Either way, contact the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. They may have a museum to display such pieces. Any chance you are in the vicinity of Crystal Gateway Marriott? An international Masonic conference will be held there Feb 17-23. There is always a vendor who deals in antique Masonic jewelry. He may buy the Scottish Rite ring from you and perhaps that medallion. If I can remember his name I'll shoot you an IM. I'm sure he has a website. |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: For the medallion, does it say presented to the Grand Master or by the Grand Master? If presented to a Grand Master, sometimes they are property of Grand Lodge and the expectation is that they are returned upon death. If presented by, it was most likely for meritorious service. Either way, contact the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. They may have a museum to display such pieces. Any chance you are in the vicinity of Crystal Gateway Marriott? An international Masonic conference will be held there Feb 17-23. There is always a vendor who deals in antique Masonic jewelry. He may buy the Scottish Rite ring from you and perhaps that medallion. If I can remember his name I'll shoot you an IM. I'm sure he has a website. The inscription on the back of the medallion says "Presented by the Grand Lodge F.&M. to Harry Speich Grand Master 1955-1956" I know he was the Grand Master, my sister has the Oct 8 1956 Life Magazine with all the Grand Masters and he was in the picture (red circle). I'm in the Hampton Roads area, not close to where it will be held. If you do remember his name, I'd appreciate you passing it along to me. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Number1gun: I just put them in a pile of scrap gold that got weighed. Done. The medallion was appraised back in 2011 for $3000, but I would rather sell it to someone who would appreciate it rather than scrap it. |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: For the medallion, does it say presented to the Grand Master or by the Grand Master? If presented to a Grand Master, sometimes they are property of Grand Lodge and the expectation is that they are returned upon death. If presented by, it was most likely for meritorious service. Either way, contact the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. They may have a museum to display such pieces. Any chance you are in the vicinity of Crystal Gateway Marriott? An international Masonic conference will be held there Feb 17-23. There is always a vendor who deals in antique Masonic jewelry. He may buy the Scottish Rite ring from you and perhaps that medallion. If I can remember his name I'll shoot you an IM. I'm sure he has a website. Your grandfather was the Grand Master of Freemans of Wisconsin. The Past Grand Master jewel is the property of the Grand Lodge. When a PGM dies the jewel is returned and it will be presented to another GM when he leaves office. A hinged plate will be attached over the back with the new recipient’s information engraved on it. That way it maintains the heritage of the PGM’s. My Grand Council Past Most Illustrious Grand Master’s jewel is very precious to me. It was originally presented to a wonderful man who was one of my mentors. When I pass my family will return it to preserve its legacy. These jewels are worth much more than their monetary value. The Grand Lodge isn’t going to sue you or come after it, obviously because they haven’t. Let your conscience be your guide on what to do. |
When you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries as you rejoice.
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Originally Posted By tspike: The inscription on the back of the medallion says "Presented by the Grand Lodge F.&M. to Harry Speich Grand Master 1955-1956" I know he was the Grand Master, my sister has the Oct 8 1956 Life Magazine with all the Grand Masters and he was in the picture (red circle). I'm in the Hampton Roads area, not close to where it will be held. If you do remember his name, I'd appreciate you passing it along to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/wnt6g_jpg-2649873.JPG There are a couple of copies of that circulating in our Grand Lodge Library. I believe they are recreating that picture February 2023 at the Conference of Grand Masters in Virginia. |
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Originally Posted By PSI: The Past Grand Master jewel is the property of the Grand Lodge. When a PGM dies the jewel is returned and it will be presented to another GM when he leaves office. Same in Utah. Sadly many widows/children/heirs are not aware of that and we lose many. The number left in the vault is dwindling. Occasionally they show up in pawn shops or eBay and we can rescue them (for a price). I wear a PGM jewel from Parley L. Williams who was the only one in our history to serve three consecutive terms (1885-1887). As far as I can tell no one has worn it since. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: The inscription on the back of the medallion says "Presented by the Grand Lodge F.&M. to Harry Speich Grand Master 1955-1956" I know he was the Grand Master, my sister has the Oct 8 1956 Life Magazine with all the Grand Masters and he was in the picture (red circle). I'm in the Hampton Roads area, not close to where it will be held. If you do remember his name, I'd appreciate you passing it along to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/wnt6g_jpg-2649873.JPG Originally Posted By tspike: Originally Posted By medicmandan: For the medallion, does it say presented to the Grand Master or by the Grand Master? If presented to a Grand Master, sometimes they are property of Grand Lodge and the expectation is that they are returned upon death. If presented by, it was most likely for meritorious service. Either way, contact the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. They may have a museum to display such pieces. Any chance you are in the vicinity of Crystal Gateway Marriott? An international Masonic conference will be held there Feb 17-23. There is always a vendor who deals in antique Masonic jewelry. He may buy the Scottish Rite ring from you and perhaps that medallion. If I can remember his name I'll shoot you an IM. I'm sure he has a website. The inscription on the back of the medallion says "Presented by the Grand Lodge F.&M. to Harry Speich Grand Master 1955-1956" I know he was the Grand Master, my sister has the Oct 8 1956 Life Magazine with all the Grand Masters and he was in the picture (red circle). I'm in the Hampton Roads area, not close to where it will be held. If you do remember his name, I'd appreciate you passing it along to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/wnt6g_jpg-2649873.JPG |
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OP, I found your grandfather’s obituary. As an interesting point, the lodge he was Master of is #1. Attached File |
When you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries as you rejoice.
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: Reach out to Michael DeWolf at the link I posted and talk to him. Wonderful man. Thank you, I will indeed reach out to him. I do appreciate your assistance in this, very much. @medicmandan |
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Originally Posted By PSI: OP, I found your grandfather’s obituary. As an interesting point, the lodge he was Master of is #1. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105210/C5307F5A-B548-46D2-A41C-AEF4466F75A1_jpe-2650017.JPG Wow. Yeah, that's him. I've never actually seen this, thank you! @PSI |
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Originally Posted By tspike: Thank you, I will indeed reach out to him. I do appreciate your assistance in this, very much. He may well have photos as well. Annual session in which he was installed Grand Master (official portrait on page 5): http://gwm.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/GWM~79~79~107~290324?sort=year&qvq=sort:year;lc:GWM~79~79&mi=106&trs=152 And this will be an account of the annual session that he presided over as Grand Master: http://gwm.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/GWM~79~79~108~290320?sort=year&qvq=sort:year;lc:GWM~79~79&mi=107&trs=152 |
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Originally Posted By OverScoped: why don't you join the Freemasons, then become a Scottish Rite Mason and then you can wear the SR ring? I'm 63 and past the point in my live where I'd fell comfortable taking on a quest such as that. |
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Tag for info. I have a bunch of my fathers and grandfathers masonic stuff, including a copper setting maul, jewels and aprons. Also have a bunch of the little cipher books. Grandfather was master of Joppa lodge in Brooklyn and dad was master of Darien lodge in Panama, both non existent now. Seems like they should be worth something. I don't want to toss them if they have some value to a lodge, or can be sold. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: I'm 63 and past the point in my live where I'd fell comfortable taking on a quest such as that. Originally Posted By tspike: Originally Posted By OverScoped: why don't you join the Freemasons, then become a Scottish Rite Mason and then you can wear the SR ring? I'm 63 and past the point in my live where I'd fell comfortable taking on a quest such as that. Perfect age to join. |
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Originally Posted By entropy: Tag for info. I have a bunch of my fathers and grandfathers masonic stuff, including a copper setting maul, jewels and aprons. Also have a bunch of the little cipher books. Grandfather was master of Joppa lodge in Brooklyn and dad was master of Darien lodge in Panama, both non existent now. Seems like they should be worth something. I don't want to toss them if they have some value to a lodge, or can be sold. The cipher books may have historical value to a lodge or Grand Lodge if they are previous editions. The personal items (gavel, aprons) would have more personal value than to the fraternity. Jewels are always of interest as they are very expensive to replace. Some of us love the history behind the jewels. |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: He may well have photos as well. Annual session in which he was installed Grand Master (official portrait on page 5): http://gwm.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/GWM~79~79~107~290324?sort=year&qvq=sort:year;lc:GWM~79~79&mi=106&trs=152 And this will be an account of the annual session that he presided over as Grand Master: http://gwm.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/GWM~79~79~108~290320?sort=year&qvq=sort:year;lc:GWM~79~79&mi=107&trs=152 Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By tspike: Thank you, I will indeed reach out to him. I do appreciate your assistance in this, very much. He may well have photos as well. Annual session in which he was installed Grand Master (official portrait on page 5): http://gwm.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/GWM~79~79~107~290324?sort=year&qvq=sort:year;lc:GWM~79~79&mi=106&trs=152 And this will be an account of the annual session that he presided over as Grand Master: http://gwm.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/GWM~79~79~108~290320?sort=year&qvq=sort:year;lc:GWM~79~79&mi=107&trs=152 It's been many years since I've seen a picture of young Harry, absolutely heart warming.. That smile. He was a no nonsense kind of man but very kind and gentle to us grandkids. I had just turned 18 when he passed and had zero understanding of the reasoning behind the multitude of people attending his funeral service and burial. Now it all makes sense. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: It's been many years since I've seen a picture of young Harry, absolutely heart warming.. That smile. He was a no nonsense kind of man but very kind and gentle to us grandkids. I had just turned 18 when he passed and had zero understanding of the reasoning behind the multitude of people attending his funeral service and burial. Now it all makes sense.  And that is the best thing I have heard today. Glad I could provide a little bit of a connection to someone I have no doubt was an amazing man. |
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Originally Posted By telemarker: All I have to say is that there was a lot of work and dedication that went into those rings. Please don't melt them and follow the advice from those posters above. I'm in no need of money and I never ask for advice and then walk away from it. |
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The medallion will be going back to the Grand Lodge in Wisconsin. I am 100% sure this is what my grandfather would have wanted. Thank you to all of you who gave me input on this, especially @medicmandan for getting me in touch with them. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: The medallion will be going back to the Grand Lodge in Wisconsin. I am 100% sure this is what my grandfather would have wanted. Thank you to all of you who gave me input on this, especially @medicmandan for getting me in touch with them. You're a good man. Generally when these are passed on to the next recipient the name of the prior holder is left intact on the medallion, preserving his legacy and memory. |
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Originally Posted By PepePewPew: Shouldn't the GMs write special items like this into their wills to prevent confusion of this sort? I'm sure some do. For many, due to their age and cognitive decline it may have been years since they last attended a meeting and wore the jewel. It goes into a drawer and is forgotten about. A surviving spouse may be aware of the significance and need to return it, but their own health decline or early passing may impede that. Children/grandchildren find them and have no idea what the significance is and donate them to goodwill, sell them or sadly melt them down. It can be an uncomfortable discussion for some of our leaders as well at the time of their passing. Heirs quite frequently drop off numerous other artifacts they believe are significant to the larger body such as aprons, gavels, books, plaques, etc. We have more copies than I care to count of Pike's Morals and Dogma in the library and other storage areas. Most Masons have a copy of that so few have any real value unless they are a very early addition. I did come across one that was signed by J.C. Penney when he went through the Scottish Rite degrees in Utah. I added that to my personal collection so it does not disappear or deteriorate in storage. Few will find any value in that one, but I do. A few of us here in Utah frequent pawn shops and watch ebay for these things and will buy them back when we can. |
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I'm not sure how my sister came into my grandfathers (my fathers, father) medallion or the rings (from my mothers father). Shortly after Harrys funeral I went to boot camp and was not a part of the will reading or the distribution of his things. I think... my grandmother may have kept it and she may have given it to my sister. I didn't ask how she acquired it and I won't. I'm sure she thought (as I did) it was just some sort of Masons flair. Now I know differently and am happy to get it back where it belongs. As I stated, the rings were from my other grandfather, Ivor Gunnison who passed in 1956 (before I was born). He was from Baraboo Wisconsin and I can only guess that my sister acquired them from my grandmother Vivian Gunnison before she passed in 92. |
Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: I'm sure some do. For many, due to their age and cognitive decline it may have been years since they last attended a meeting and wore the jewel. It goes into a drawer and is forgotten about. A surviving spouse may be aware of the significance and need to return it, but their own health decline or early passing may impede that. Children/grandchildren find them and have no idea what the significance is and donate them to goodwill, sell them or sadly melt them down. It can be an uncomfortable discussion for some of our leaders as well at the time of their passing. Heirs quite frequently drop off numerous other artifacts they believe are significant to the larger body such as aprons, gavels, books, plaques, etc. We have more copies than I care to count of Pike's Morals and Dogma in the library and other storage areas. Most Masons have a copy of that so few have any real value unless they are a very early addition. I did come across one that was signed by J.C. Penney when he went through the Scottish Rite degrees in Utah. I added that to my personal collection so it does not disappear or deteriorate in storage. Few will find any value in that one, but I do. A few of us here in Utah frequent pawn shops and watch ebay for these things and will buy them back when we can. J.C. Penney’s hometown is about 15 miles north of me the local high school is named for him |
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Originally Posted By OverScoped: . Perfect age to join. Originally Posted By OverScoped: Originally Posted By tspike: Originally Posted By OverScoped: why don't you join the Freemasons, then become a Scottish Rite Mason and then you can wear the SR ring? I'm 63 and past the point in my live where I'd fell comfortable taking on a quest such as that. Perfect age to join. It really is. A lot of the older guys have more free time to hang out together more. It is a good outlet to get them out of the house more and socialize. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: I'm 63 and past the point in my live where I'd fell comfortable taking on a quest such as that. Before you get rid of the rings, be absolutely certain that you don't want to become a mason. If you change your mind, you'll regret letting then go. Also, 63 is definitely not too old to become a mason. Your grandfathers got a lot out of masonry. Maybe they were on to something. One of the things that I really like about masonry is the connection to the previous generations of my family who have been brothers. I don't know what it was like being a stone mason in the 19th century in Ayrshire. I probably don't have many similar interests or hobbies as my ancestors. If I were somehow transported back in time, I'm not sure we would have much to talk about. But we would share the masonic experience. There are some differences between my Grand Lodge's ritual and theirs, but we all knocked on a closed door. My journey through the degrees of masonry was largely the same as my great-great-great-grandfather's. It's worth looking into. Don't assume you're too old or that it's too much to take on. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: I'm 63 and past the point in my live where I'd fell comfortable taking on a quest such as that. You're exactly what the Fraternity needs right now. You can't believe the number of young Mason who are joining just so they can join the Shrine and Shrine Clubs. I have sent you an IM about the SR ring. |
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A little update. The PGM medallion is finally back at the Grand Lodge Free and Accepted Masons of Wisconsin, the Scottish Rite ring is with an ARFCOM Team Member Mason, and the Elks ring is with a friend who in an Elks member. I honestly appreciate all the help I received from the members here. Thank you! |
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Originally Posted By tspike: A little update. The PGM medallion is finally back at the Grand Lodge Free and Accepted Masons of Wisconsin, the Scottish Rite ring is with an ARFCOM Team Member Mason, and the Elks ring is with a friend who in an Elks member. I honestly appreciate all the help I received from the members here. Thank you! 
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@tspike Thanks for returning it. It’ll mean a lot to the next recipient. . @medicmandan I imagine Utah does something similar. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
When you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries as you rejoice.
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@PSI I hope if it is does go to another recipient, he is as good a man as I knew Grandpa Harry was. Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By PSI: @tspike Thanks for returning it. It’ll mean a lot to the next recipient. . @medicmandan I imagine Utah does something similar. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105210/IMG_6979_jpeg-2825796.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105210/IMG_6983_jpeg-2825799.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105210/IMG_6981_jpeg-2825800.JPG @PSI We do. The PGM jewel on loan to me was worn by the only PGM to serve three consecutive terms in the 1890s. We are down to just a few in the vault even with several PGMs passing away in recent years. They go into drawers, shoeboxes, and get forgotten. Every once in a great while they pop up on eBay or in a local pawn or antique store and we try to purchase them back. I'm sure a few have been melted down for their gold. |
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Originally Posted By tspike: @PSI I hope if it is does go to another recipient, he is as good a man as I knew Grandpa Harry was. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/IMG_2111_jpg-2825877.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/IMG_2110_jpg-2825878.JPG There are very few privileged to attain the rank and honor of Grand Master. The next man privileged to wear that will most likely be a very good, honorable and decent man and Mason. Much like I expect your Grandfather was. |
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The PGM jewel I am privileged to wear. Other than the new name plate it is original. I will have the back engraved with the previous holder's name and years to preserve the lineage. My PGM apron was custom made by Brother Sid from Pin World and is a work of art. He did an absolutely amazing job with it.  |
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Originally Posted By tspike: The inscription on the back of the medallion says "Presented by the Grand Lodge F.&M. to Harry Speich Grand Master 1955-1956" I know he was the Grand Master, my sister has the Oct 8 1956 Life Magazine with all the Grand Masters and he was in the picture (red circle). I'm in the Hampton Roads area, not close to where it will be held. If you do remember his name, I'd appreciate you passing it along to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/wnt6g_jpg-2649873.JPG Originally Posted By tspike: Originally Posted By medicmandan: For the medallion, does it say presented to the Grand Master or by the Grand Master? If presented to a Grand Master, sometimes they are property of Grand Lodge and the expectation is that they are returned upon death. If presented by, it was most likely for meritorious service. Either way, contact the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. They may have a museum to display such pieces. Any chance you are in the vicinity of Crystal Gateway Marriott? An international Masonic conference will be held there Feb 17-23. There is always a vendor who deals in antique Masonic jewelry. He may buy the Scottish Rite ring from you and perhaps that medallion. If I can remember his name I'll shoot you an IM. I'm sure he has a website. The inscription on the back of the medallion says "Presented by the Grand Lodge F.&M. to Harry Speich Grand Master 1955-1956" I know he was the Grand Master, my sister has the Oct 8 1956 Life Magazine with all the Grand Masters and he was in the picture (red circle). I'm in the Hampton Roads area, not close to where it will be held. If you do remember his name, I'd appreciate you passing it along to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4164/wnt6g_jpg-2649873.JPG Master masons made a lopsided triangle for the picture?! |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: @PSI We do. The PGM jewel on loan to me was worn by the only PGM to serve three consecutive terms in the 1890s. We are down to just a few in the vault even with several PGMs passing away in recent years. They go into drawers, shoeboxes, and get forgotten. Every once in a great while they pop up on eBay or in a local pawn or antique store and we try to purchase them back. I'm sure a few have been melted down for their gold. I like your use of the term, “on loan”. That’s exactly what I consider my Past Grand High Priest and Past Most Illustrious Grand Master jewels to be. They’ve simply in my care until I move on. We’re out of PGHP and PMIGM jewels. Every year we purchase a new one. They’re pricey. The apron, however, is the property of the Past. |
When you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries as you rejoice.
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: Those were all Grand Masters, can't make them do anything they don't want to.  Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By PewPewPew1212: Master masons made a lopsided triangle for the picture?! Those were all Grand Masters, can't make them do anything they don't want to. Especially if they want to talk. 🤣 |
When you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries as you rejoice.
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Originally Posted By entropy: Tag for info. I have a bunch of my fathers and grandfathers masonic stuff, including a copper setting maul, jewels and aprons. Also have a bunch of the little cipher books. Grandfather was master of Joppa lodge in Brooklyn and dad was master of Darien lodge in Panama, both non existent now. Seems like they should be worth something. I don't want to toss them if they have some value to a lodge, or can be sold. They will definitely be valuable to the lodge. Especially one where he was a member. When a Mason dies, his family often brings his rings to the Lodge, where they are put in a special place for a while, then other members may have them if they will wear them. I have one from a member of my original Lodge from 1904. I am the 4th Mason to wear it and when I am gone it will go back to the Lodge, if it still exists, so another Mason may wear it. I currently wear a ring my Grandpa wore from his lodge. |
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