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Posted: 4/13/2022 4:46:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're the top of your class and get to choose, why would you pick anything else? Different goals or preferences for some I suppose. Air Force needs at the time you graduate have a bearing too. If there’s not a slot for what you want it may not matter if you’re top. I believe there were instances where the Navy sent entire classes to helo or multi-engine because there was a greater need to fill slots in those communities than open pointy nose slots. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 4:46:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I look forward to B-21 CAS. I want to see a gazillion 500 pounders wipe out a couple grid squares. The jtac who gets that approved --> 
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Posted: 4/13/2022 4:51:40 PM EDT
[#3]
A-10s are the battleships of the air.
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:04:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to see a gazillion 500 pounders wipe out a couple grid squares. The jtac who gets that approved --> Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I look forward to B-21 CAS. I want to see a gazillion 500 pounders wipe out a couple grid squares. The jtac who gets that approved -->  Record Breaking B-52 Strike - 24 Precision Guided Munitions Although I suspect this one was a deliberate strike rather than XCAS. 
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:16:56 PM EDT
[#5]
With Indiana being an interior state. Wouldn’t an A10 be more effective to subdue a situation over an F16? This is national Guard after all
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:20:33 PM EDT
[#6]
More decisions being made by old men who don't understand what the people at the bottom of the pyramid need.
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:21:04 PM EDT
[#7]
A-10s needed to be retired 2 decades ago.
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:22:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With Indiana being an interior state. Wouldn’t an A10 be more effective to subdue a situation over an F16? This is national Guard after all Indiana would be one of the states from which F-16s would be taking off to intercept Russian bombers over the Arctic, in the event of nuclear war. This decision may be related to Ukraine. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:24:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indiana would be one of the states from which F-16s would be taking off to intercept Russian bombers over the Arctic, in the event of nuclear war. This decision may be related to Ukraine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: With Indiana being an interior state. Wouldn’t an A10 be more effective to subdue a situation over an F16? This is national Guard after all Indiana would be one of the states from which F-16s would be taking off to intercept Russian bombers over the Arctic, in the event of nuclear war. This decision may be related to Ukraine. They won't be IOC on F-16s for a couple of years. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:27:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snooze and Trip were both F-16 guys. Neither flew the A-10 that I'm aware of. Trip went on to be an F-16 Weapons School grad. If you listen to the catalog of their songs, you'll note that they're equal-opportunity criticizers and admirers of all the airframes. One of those dudes is the OG at Shaw. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:29:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any military official suggesting to retire A-10s should be fired with prejudice. lol |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:32:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The unit in Springfield, OH got drones to replace their F-16's also. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah they took our 10’s from the 188th and gave us…drones It can absolutely be worse than 16’s lol The unit in Springfield, OH got drones to replace their F-16's also. Easy for DC to take over a drone to kill its citizens then a pilot who refuses those orders… |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:35:33 PM EDT
[#13]
I was in the Illinois Air Guard in Peoria many years ago. After I left in 1991, the Air Force finally replaced our very outdated and obsolete OA-37's (we were the only unit in the entire USAF to still have them) with F-16's. After one plane had something go wrong on a cross country flight and the pilot had to bail out, and on another flight 2 hit wings in flight with one crashing and the pilot bailing out (other one landed, the base commander was flying it) the Air Force pulled the base's F-16's and gave them C-130's which is what they still have. The base commander also stepped down.
F-16's apparently can be a temperamental aircraft and requires a lot of pilot training, the Air Guard does not always get that. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:37:27 PM EDT
[#14]
I've recently grown fond of the a10 playing it on dcs. The hmcs system is amazing. Look at something either make it a mark point or spi turn in and launch your mavericks, jdams, or laser guided bomb on that one area in no time or give it the brrrrrrrrrrrt
Makes you wonder how advanced the f35 hmcs is. But as far as close air support hard to beat the a10 |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:38:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was in the Illinois Air Guard in Peoria many years ago. After I left in 1991, the Air Force finally replaced our very outdated and obsolete OA-37's (we were the only unit in the entire USAF to still have them) with F-16's. After one plane had something go wrong on a cross country flight and the pilot had to bail out, and on another flight 2 hit wings in flight with one crashing and the pilot bailing out (other one landed, the base commander was flying it) the Air Force pulled the base's F-16's and gave them C-130's which is what they still have. The base commander also stepped down. F-16's apparently can be a temperamental aircraft and requires a lot of pilot training, the Air Guard does not always get that. It could be a real challenge for this ANG unit to fly planes that the old hats already have hundreds of hours in. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:51:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Sioux City group swapped F-16s for KC-135 several years ago. The Des Moines unit swapped F-16s for drones some years after that. They got our E's than they got our R's than we got Associated in the ass.
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:00:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snooze and Trip were both F-16 guys. Neither flew the A-10 that I'm aware of. Trip went on to be an F-16 Weapons School grad. If you listen to the catalog of their songs, you'll note that they're equal-opportunity criticizers and admirers of all the airframes. Thanks for confirming! I knew they were definitely F-16 guys, so got my wires crossed on the A-10. One of the guys at work was an F16 crew chief prior to working with us, and he turned me on to those guys. Love their stuff! He said their song "I'm a pilot" was pretty spot on from most of his experiences. 
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:16:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They got our E's than they got our R's than we got Associated in the ass. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Sioux City group swapped F-16s for KC-135 several years ago. The Des Moines unit swapped F-16s for drones some years after that. They got our E's than they got our R's than we got Associated in the ass. But at least you get to play with MPRS. And SUX went from Vipers to R models. Not sure who got your old Es. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:21:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flaming a10 wreckage would be falling out of the sky like rain. Russia's Slavshit AA can't even do that reliably to those Turkish piston engine drones. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:22:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing you would see would be them getting swatted out of the sky by MiGs and SAMs. They can't survive in non-permissive environments. We can get cheaper options for strafing mud huts. Of course they’d need some air superiority and some additional support… I just like the idea of seeing the end results on YouTube… |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:23:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They won't be IOC on F-16s for a couple of years. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: With Indiana being an interior state. Wouldn’t an A10 be more effective to subdue a situation over an F16? This is national Guard after all Indiana would be one of the states from which F-16s would be taking off to intercept Russian bombers over the Arctic, in the event of nuclear war. This decision may be related to Ukraine. They won't be IOC on F-16s for a couple of years. Does that really mean anything? The military never gets shit done in any semblance of timeliness. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:26:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia's Slavshit AA can't even do that reliably to those Turkish piston engine drones. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:31:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course they’d need some air superiority and some additional support… I just like the idea of seeing the end results on YouTube… Even in uncontested airspace, A-10s don’t do much that can’t be done better by somebody else. Exceptions being CSAR and FAC-A. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 6:51:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, do a little research and you will learn why. Ukraine sent a pair of Hinds 50 miles into Russia and blew up an oil depot. Russia's air defense sucks ass. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 6:07:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But at least you get to play with MPRS. And SUX went from Vipers to R models. Not sure who got your old Es. They converted to E models first. They got both the E's and R's from the 141ARW. 185th has good article on their website on retiring 57-2606. I would have to look but I think 2606 was with 141st from start in 1974 as a A model than converted to E (NJ may have got it after that but it eventually came back to 141st in a shuffle ) and finally to a R. Was a good tanker. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 8:12:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Close Air Support is a mission, not a weapon system. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Retire the F16. Keep the Warthog. Of course, as an 11B, I am always in favor of close air support.  Close Air Support is a mission, not a weapon system. Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 8:46:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even in uncontested airspace, A-10s don’t do much that can’t be done better by somebody else. Exceptions being CSAR and FAC-A. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Of course they’d need some air superiority and some additional support… I just like the idea of seeing the end results on YouTube… Even in uncontested airspace, A-10s don’t do much that can’t be done better by somebody else. Exceptions being CSAR and FAC-A. How about columns of stalled vehicles waiting for fuel? A-10s wouldn’t be good for that? I’d think that would be an a-10 driver’s wet dream. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 8:47:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Doesn't mention what block of F-16 we are talking about.
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Posted: 4/15/2022 8:50:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Retire the F16. Keep the Warthog. Of course, as an 11B, I am always in favor of close air support. Close Air Support is a mission, not a weapon system. Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. They should set requirements, not direct the solution. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 8:52:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. Being a receiver of a service does not make one an expert on execution of that service. No more than me being a pilot who flies CAS makes me an expert on ground scheme of maneuver. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 8:57:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Weren't the F-16s were taken b/c Bathhouse Barry didn't want ANG to have fighters?
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:01:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weren't the F-16s were taken b/c Bathhouse Barry didn't want ANG to have fighters? He did a pretty poor job if that was the plan because there are tons of guard units with fighters. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:11:41 AM EDT
[#33]
Retire all of the A-10s. Every one of them. Yesterday.
What block Viper would they be getting and how worn out are they? There's so much politics about keeping a flying unit, even if it is a shitty decision. Sometimes the answer is to shut down the unit. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:14:10 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Different goals or preferences for some I suppose. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you're the top of your class and get to choose, why would you pick anything else? Different goals or preferences for some I suppose. I guess homosexuality is a choice. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:15:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Do you think we are gonna fight cave people ir near peer
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:18:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should set requirements, not direct the solution. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Retire the F16. Keep the Warthog. Of course, as an 11B, I am always in favor of close air support. Close Air Support is a mission, not a weapon system. Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. They should set requirements, not direct the solution. Why not just keep it all in house? Let the AF focus on air superiority and sexy fighters. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:20:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being a receiver of a service does not make one an expert on execution of that service. No more than me being a pilot who flies CAS makes me an expert on ground scheme of maneuver. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. Being a receiver of a service does not make one an expert on execution of that service. No more than me being a pilot who flies CAS makes me an expert on ground scheme of maneuver. But wouldn't it help if the pilot at least spoke a little bit of the maneuver language? And wouldn't planning be easier if it's already in house? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:24:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia's Slavshit AA can't even do that reliably to those Turkish piston engine drones. Iraq did it pretty well back In 91. Russia is doing it pretty well now. The UAF lost 3 su35s in one day a few weeks ago |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:28:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not just keep it all in house? Let the AF focus on air superiority and sexy fighters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Retire the F16. Keep the Warthog. Of course, as an 11B, I am always in favor of close air support. Close Air Support is a mission, not a weapon system. Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. They should set requirements, not direct the solution. Why not just keep it all in house? Let the AF focus on air superiority and sexy fighters. That's a different discussion altogether and unrelated to your position that the supported role decides the means. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:37:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a different discussion altogether and unrelated to your position that the supported role decides the means. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Retire the F16. Keep the Warthog. Of course, as an 11B, I am always in favor of close air support. Close Air Support is a mission, not a weapon system. Who's being supported? They should be the proponent that controls the equipment that goes with the mission. They should set requirements, not direct the solution. Why not just keep it all in house? Let the AF focus on air superiority and sexy fighters. That's a different discussion altogether and unrelated to your position that the supported role decides the means. Fair enough. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:45:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Whatever better supports the missions for the projected threats.
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:52:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They took the 131st Fighter Wing’s F-15s from the Missouri Air National Guard, and now they are the 131st Bomb Wing sharing time flying the B2’s at Whiteman. It could always be worse. Guard is clown shoes and shouldn’t be included in any serious combat conversation. They should fly all the tanker and cargo missions. Leave the real shit to the pros. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:01:50 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guard is clown shoes and shouldn’t be included in any serious combat conversation. They should fly all the tanker and cargo missions. Leave the real shit to the pros. The pros that can barely keep a pilot past 10 years? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:03:28 AM EDT
[#44]
I'd rather see a bunch of deadwood generals ride off into the sunset than retire a single A-10. The troops need it. Russia has demonstrated their AF is of such low quality we can give the F-16s to Ukraine and get more good out of them.
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:17:42 AM EDT
[#45]
That's too bad.
Our probable enemy of the future is going to be a country that uses massive amounts of troops to overwhelm their enemy. I would imagine an airplane that can decimate huge numbers of crunchies will be a game changer. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:26:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A-10s needed to be retired 2 decades ago. Why? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:34:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even in uncontested airspace, A-10s don’t do much that can’t be done better by somebody else. Exceptions being CSAR and FAC-A. Who could do it better? lol A lot of ground-pounders would vigorously disagree. Fighter pilots want to be Aces and there are no points for popping a tank, so where is the training going to be focused? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:42:44 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retire all of the A-10s. Every one of them. Yesterday. What block Viper would they be getting and how worn out are they? There's so much politics about keeping a flying unit, even if it is a shitty decision. Sometimes the answer is to shut down the unit. And sometimes getting better decision-makers is the answer.
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:46:21 AM EDT
[#49]
No relevant experience at all but a serious question.
If the A-10 is as useless as some here claim it to be, then why are the AC-130's not lumped in for the exact same reason? I mean think about if for a second. The AC-130 from what I understand (I could be wrong) can't fly during the day because of the Spirt-03 shootdown. So its basically useless for the role its designed for, unless its night time? I get the cool factor but aren't there better methods for CAS since the 
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Posted: 4/15/2022 10:46:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pros that can barely keep a pilot past 10 years? And couldn't hit a womp rat flying at Mach 1 but an A-10 could hit them all day long. |
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