Indoor range shoes (Page 2 of 3)
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Originally Posted By ALostKey: Honestly not the worst idea to wear a pair of shit kickers to the range. Half of GD needs to get their lead levels checked based on some of the replies in this thread. the other half of gd seems to have a standing monthly appointment at their 'gynacologist 
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Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: If you have young children you'd be stupid to pick them up in the clothes you just left the range with, they're much, much more susceptible to brain damage from lead ingestion than adults. You don't need to be extreme about it, but some caution is warranted. I don't, but I still clean up when I get home. My buddies and I head to a local cigar bar for lunch after the range each week, and even though I don't smoke with them, I come home smelling awful according to my wife, so I drop those clothes in the laundry room and shower when I get home ...and I get a shower twofer. 
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You dont want to go home and track lead around the house or transfer it from your clothing to the inside of the house. I dont have a special pair of range boots but I also take my footwear off inside my house and the clothes go in the laundry as soon as I get home |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By pr24guy: I don't shoot from between my feet, so no concern. At least take your shoes off before you come inside and rinse them off. |
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It is my understanding that indoor ranges have air circulation systems that draw air forward, away from the shooting lanes. That air is filtered. From what I understand, most potential lead exposure is from primer compounds and lead bullet "gas cutting" of bullets at firing. The latter effect lessened by the use of copper clad projectiles. If there was vaporized lead residue on the floor space at the shooter's booths, it seems to me you'd be OK if you don't lick the floor and benches. A hand wash on the way out would cover hand to food exposure. |
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How many of you experts actually shoot and get your Blood Lead Level tested? From the majority of replies, I am guessing not many. It is an issue for those that do shoot regularly. Lead levels are cumulative. Any way to reduce that exposure helps. |
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Originally Posted By Flysc:It is my understanding that indoor ranges have air circulation systems that draw air forward, away from the shooting lanes. That air is filtered. From what I understand, most potential lead exposure is from primer compounds and lead bullet "gas cutting" of bullets at firing. The latter effect lessened by the use of copper clad projectiles. If there was vaporized lead residue on the floor space at the shooter's booths, it seems to me you'd be OK if you don't lick the floor and benches. A hand wash on the way out would cover hand to food exposure. |
| My only concern is to not wear flip flops. Made that mistake once and a 5.56 case somehow ended up landing/stuck between the strap and my foot. I had a burn the exact outline of said casing. Obviously mild, but still very clearly a cartridge casing. Now I wear closed toe shoes. |
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Originally Posted By Gotterdammerung: How many of you experts actually shoot and get your Blood Lead Level tested? From the majority of replies, I am guessing not many. It is an issue for those that do shoot regularly. Lead levels are cumulative. Any way to reduce that exposure helps. I've had my levels checked a few times. Even when I was shooting thousands of rounds a month at an indoor range, I was never elevated. I know high volume shooters can get elevated levels, but it's expensive to get there if you're paying for the ammo. Practicing hand hygiene and not eating, drinking, or smoking while shooting goes a long way to limit exposure from ingestion. The much bigger issue is inhalation of vaporized lead and lead particulate from combusted primer compounds, unjacketed or exposed base bullets passing through the barrel, and disturbed particulates. Lead passes more easily from the lungs to the bloodstream than it does from the gut to the bloodstream. It's one of the reasons I don't like it when people "help" by sweeping the range after they're done. They're throwing all the settled dust back into the air for me to breathe. |
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Originally Posted By bjkb1f: My only concern is to not wear flip flops. Made that mistake once and a 5.56 case somehow ended up landing/stuck between the strap and my foot. I had a burn the exact outline of said casing. Obviously mild, but still very clearly a cartridge casing. Now I wear closed toe shoes. On this front and not directed at you, when bringing a woman to the range, make sure she doesn’t wear a low cut top. Hot brass and boobs don’t mix well. |
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Originally Posted By gtsteve03: Do you have any concerns about your footwear at indoor ranges? Between lead and powder residue, I'm erring on the side of not wearing my normal shoes and using a dedicated old pair that are for yardwork only. Are these concerns overblown? Do you just full send in regular shoes? Do you clean them off after an indoor range session and call it good? Would you use de-leading wipes on shoes? Tactical tennis shoes are what you seek, just like what the hi-speed, low-drag honchos wear on deployments. |
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Depends on how often you are in there. Normally, just clean them on the sticky pad, maybe wash them off. My work boots never got worn very far inside before being removed, due to lead, blood, dog crap, occasionally brains and skull fragments, etc getting on them. Washing them off only does so much after all! Coworker brought home enough lead on his work boots to end up with his baby picking up a noticeable amount and having issues over it, this was when teaching firearms a lot at both indoor and outdoor ranges. Kid basically crawled over the floor, picking up lead that way. Now my own lead level went way up because of shitty ventilation at one indoor range. So don’t shoot at indoor ranges unless they have good airflow towards the backstop. And the floors in front of the shooting line are much worse than if you just shoot from the benches. Most of the lead exposure comes from the primer compound, not the bullets. So everything in front of the muzzle gets it…. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: I don't shoot enough at indoor ranges for it to matter. If I worked in one, I might be concerned. Also, all my kids are out of the crawling phase, so I don't have to worry about them ingesting lead from crawling around and licking their hands. I also don't wear my shoes in the house. They come off at the front door. If you're worried about lead exposure, one of the members (@chase45 I think?) had one of his kids come up hot on a routine blood lead test, and it turned out it was the root vegetables in the home made baby food they were feeding. Part of his investigation led him to lead test the surfaces of his house, and he was surprised by how little even his bullet casting area popped for lead. That is to say, lead exposure from shooting isn't a big deal unless you're licking the floor of the range or constantly shooting in a cloud of gun smoke. Reloading (knocking out fired primers) will give more exposure than bullet casting. Fine dust particles are the problem, not big chunks of metal. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By TOTSA: Do you also strip butt nekkid and change clothes, wash your hair (or shave it off), and shower before leaving the range? Sorry for the snark, but to be serious no that never crossed my mind. The couple of indoor ranges near me that I’ve gone to must have pretty good filtration - I don’t usually notice much gunpowder smell or anything. As others have said - hours per day, every day maybe I’d think about it but you’d probably have elevated lead from breathing it for that long than from shoes or clothing. Well at any range (indoor or outdoor) if you go downrange at all, your shoes will get the most exposure. But firing line benches and chairs are usually coated pretty well, along with any cleaning areas… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By gtsteve03: Do you have any concerns about your footwear at indoor ranges? Between lead and powder residue, I'm erring on the side of not wearing my normal shoes and using a dedicated old pair that are for yardwork only. Are these concerns overblown? Do you just full send in regular shoes? Do you clean them off after an indoor range session and call it good? Would you use de-leading wipes on shoes? Only if you do the Mr Rodgers song and theatrics while changing shoes in the range lobby. Aren't you the same guy that washed his sling and had sticky stuff everywhere for months, allegedly? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else |
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Originally Posted By Gotterdammerung: How many of you experts actually shoot and get your Blood Lead Level tested? From the majority of replies, I am guessing not many. It is an issue for those that do shoot regularly. Lead levels are cumulative. Any way to reduce that exposure helps. Link to reading material on lead levels for people that shoot regularly? Are we talking people that test firearms at the factory, people that shoot competitions, regular arfcomers that fire one mag a year while sitting in their rascal scooter? |
| I maintain a pair of shoes I only wear inside my home, i try to leave the outside world's outside contamination outside, or at least keep it off my floors. Having indoor shoes is pretty easy to maintain without much time/ effort. Keeps the floors a lot easier to clean. No rugs or carpets, hard flooring only, so it is nice to wear shoes indoors. I wash range clothes separate from any other items upon arriving home, and shower. I shoot suppressed often, AR-type rifles even w 'gas-buster' ch and whatnot tend to leave me feeling like my face is covered in chemicals. I developed these habits when I had young children. My thinking that fits w/ many things - I don't worry about it, I do things to mitigate risk, they tend not to have negative impact and might have positive impact, so it seems reasonable. |
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Originally Posted By maxima2: My indoor range has a large sticky pad that you walk across at the doors to the ranges. Anything on the bottom of your shoes will get stuck on the pads. I do not use special shoes - I shoot in whatever I am wearing. Just don't lick your shoes. This. Most decent ranges have a sticky pad you walk on that will trap a decent amount of lead/whatever you may pick up. OP is overthinking it |
"That pistol just kept saying, let go of my ears, you don't know what you're doing." - thehellbringer
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Originally Posted By maxima2: My indoor range has a large sticky pad that you walk across at the doors to the ranges. Anything on the bottom of your shoes will get stuck on the pads. I do not use special shoes - I shoot in whatever I am wearing. Just don't lick your shoes. This. Most decent ranges have a sticky pad you walk on that will trap a decent amount of lead/whatever you may pick up. OP is overthinking it |
"That pistol just kept saying, let go of my ears, you don't know what you're doing." - thehellbringer
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Originally Posted By AttachedFile: Link to reading material on lead levels for people that shoot regularly? Are we talking people that test firearms at the factory, people that shoot competitions, regular arfcomers that fire one mag a year while sitting in their rascal scooter? Most of the research is aimed at kids because developing brains are especially vulnerable. All the literature I can find for adults assumes it's from workplace exposure so OSHA (and state equivalents) require high risk employees to be tested regularly. States have different guidelines but most require employees be removed from the workplace above 10-15 µg/dL until their levels come down, and chelation therapy above 50 or 60. I average 3 matches a week, don't reload, rarely pick up brass and wear gloves when I do. I use D-lead wipes after shooting outdoors, immediately wash my hands after shooting indoors, change and wash my clothes, and shower when I get home after shooting. My BLL has varied between 8 and 16 over the last 3 years (despite all my precautions) so I can't say I am an expert on what works to get it down but reducing exposure as much as possible is common sense. I've stopped doing indoor matches and basically only use an indoor range to test and zero now. An instructor I know, says he can tell when he gets over 20. Symptoms include: High blood pressure, Joint and muscle pain, Difficulties with memory or concentration, Headache, Abdominal pain, Mood disorders, etc. Most doctors don't have a clue how to deal with it. Mine showed some mild concern but then joked about it later. A Navy doctor of an acquaintance on Active Duty freaked out at his test results and his numbers were at the bottom of my range. |
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: I've had my levels checked a few times. Even when I was shooting thousands of rounds a month at an indoor range, I was never elevated. I know high volume shooters can get elevated levels, but it's expensive to get there if you're paying for the ammo. Practicing hand hygiene and not eating, drinking, or smoking while shooting goes a long way to limit exposure from ingestion. The much bigger issue is inhalation of vaporized lead and lead particulate from combusted primer compounds, unjacketed or exposed base bullets passing through the barrel, and disturbed particulates. Lead passes more easily from the lungs to the bloodstream than it does from the gut to the bloodstream. It's one of the reasons I don't like it when people "help" by sweeping the range after they're done. They're throwing all the settled dust back into the air for me to breathe. I agree on all points but you must have a great indoor range. I tested a rifle, zeroed a pistol and ran some drills last week at my indoor range. Was there maybe an hour and when I blew my nose after it was full of dark gray snot and dust. Most of my shooting is done at outdoor matches and I go through a little over a thousand rounds a month and my levels have been high for years. |
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Originally Posted By Gotterdammerung: I agree but you must have a great indoor range. I tested a rifle, zeroed a pistol and ran some drills last week at my indoor range. Was there maybe an hour and when I blew my nose after it was full of dark gray snot and dust. Most of my shooting is done at outdoor matches and I go through a little over a thousand rounds a month and my levels have been high for years. Originally Posted By Gotterdammerung: Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: I've had my levels checked a few times. Even when I was shooting thousands of rounds a month at an indoor range, I was never elevated. I know high volume shooters can get elevated levels, but it's expensive to get there if you're paying for the ammo. Practicing hand hygiene and not eating, drinking, or smoking while shooting goes a long way to limit exposure from ingestion. The much bigger issue is inhalation of vaporized lead and lead particulate from combusted primer compounds, unjacketed or exposed base bullets passing through the barrel, and disturbed particulates. Lead passes more easily from the lungs to the bloodstream than it does from the gut to the bloodstream. It's one of the reasons I don't like it when people "help" by sweeping the range after they're done. They're throwing all the settled dust back into the air for me to breathe. I agree but you must have a great indoor range. I tested a rifle, zeroed a pistol and ran some drills last week at my indoor range. Was there maybe an hour and when I blew my nose after it was full of dark gray snot and dust. Most of my shooting is done at outdoor matches and I go through a little over a thousand rounds a month and my levels have been high for years. That sucks my friend. Might be worth it to throw on an N95 if you're already elevated, and you're getting that kind of exposure after an hour. Alternatively, skip the indoor range all together. Exposure goes down significantly outdoors. I hope you get it figured out. ETA: Thinking about this some more, have you tried not shooting for an extended period to see if your levels come down? Maybe you have something in your environment or diet that’s causing the problem. Soil conditions, potable water supply, lead paint exposure, improperly glazed ceramics, food supply contamination, etc are less likely causes than the shooting, but the process of elimination may reveal a surprise. |
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What the fuck? Jesus H. Christ, and holy shit! Have we really come to this? Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Gotterdammerung: How many of you experts actually shoot and get your Blood Lead Level tested? From the majority of replies, I am guessing not many. It is an issue for those that do shoot regularly. Lead levels are cumulative. Any way to reduce that exposure helps. I swear the amount of lead at a range is probably infinitesimal compared to the shit i've been exposed to over the course of my military career. Half of GD doesn't even wash their legs, let alone hear we are talking about shooting shoes versus house shoes. It makes you wonder what sex sanitization ritual does one perform being intimate with a actual female. |
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That’s completely unreasonable. Assuming you’re a hobbyist and shooting periodically at an indoor range, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Now, working at an indoor range, or training in one all day long five days a week, and maybe the air handling and filtration isn’t so good… you might want to get tested for lead exposure periodically, but it’s not going to have anything to do with your shoes. If anything you’ll probably expose your skin to additional lead which can then be ingested by playing musical chairs with your shoes… but even that’s unlikely unless you are always sticking your fingers in your orifices without washing your hands. Hobbyist shooters don’t get even near the level of exposure that’s worth even a moment of concern or precaution. Reloading can potentially cause some lead exposure, but just wet cleaning brass, wearing nitrile gloves during particularly dirty activities, and only smelting lead outdoors will avoid basically all realistic hazards there. If you actually want to do something that might make a theoretical difference you could choose ammunition with TMJ bullets so you aren’t getting the lead base of an FMJ exposed to the hot gasses and exposing you to vapors. Having dedicated shoes is way overkill for anyone who doesn’t work in a lead foundry. |
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Originally Posted By ALostKey: Honestly not the worst idea to wear a pair of shit kickers to the range. Half of GD needs to get their lead levels checked based on some of the replies in this thread. Some of us have had our lead levels checked. If you’re working 8-12 hours a day five days a week in an indoor range and on Fridays after closing empty the bullet traps… after doing that for many months you can display elevated levels on a blood test and only be allowed to work half shifts until they lower. A hobbyist can’t afford enough ammo to have elevated lead levels unless they’re eating off the floor at every range session before the floor is mopped. |