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Lots of lights still on in those video feeds.
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Originally Posted By AZNetEng: Interesting... H and H using the same tactics and equipment... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AZNetEng: Originally Posted By Anastasios: Originally Posted By DCV_117: Don't know how credible this is but Ben Shapiro just shared it
Newsmax just reported multiple paragliders and drones coming in from Lebanon. Well, yeah. That's how joint operations usually work. |
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So when Japan attacked PH, a perfectly valid military target despite being done as underhanded as possible, did we respond 'proportionally'... just bomb a few ships, shoot up a port and call it day once we got there? Were we primarily concerned with the civilian losses and how to reduce them to as close to zero as possible.
Fuck right the hell off with 'proportional response'. Hamas declared absolute total war here. That is exactly how it should be responded to. |
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Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL: It was verified by French and other media on site. I would not be surprised to see photos of that not shared. There were independent journalists there to see. They reported on it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL: Originally Posted By AK47_COMMBLOC: Originally Posted By DonS: The videos of the attacks on civilians, many made by the terrorists, are helping galvanize people against Gaza. Very useful IMO. where is the video of 40 babies being beheaded? ive heard it was fake news then keeps getting reported. which is it? It was verified by French and other media on site. I would not be surprised to see photos of that not shared. There were independent journalists there to see. They reported on it. there was already pictures of cribs, car seats snd childrens beds covered in blood. |
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Originally Posted By texashomeserver: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8K3AiKWYAAvFdp?format=jpg&name=900x900 Hezbollah has claimed at least 250,000 missiles/drones ready to launch. View Quote at some point someone will decide to use nukes. hope it's the Israelis and not the Iranians. NATO's doctrine of using tactical nukes against massed Soviet tanks kept them in their borders for 50 years. if deterrence doesn't work any more you have to use one or two to put the fear back into them. |
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~3:20 video right from the mouth of HAMAS brought to you by the fine folks at RT about their planning, rationale, and support for the attack on Israel. |
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If NATO continues to obstruct Israel and enable HAMAS, the leadership must be branded as terrorists and removed from position.
They are either with us or they are against us. |
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In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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View Quote Thank you |
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Originally Posted By Grunteled: So when Japan attacked PH, a perfectly valid military target despite being done as underhanded as possible, did we respond 'proportionally'... just bomb a few ships, shoot up a port and call it day once we got there? Were we primarily concerned with the civilian losses and how to reduce them to as close to zero as possible. Fuck right the hell off with 'proportional response'. Hamas declared absolute total war here. That is exactly how it should be responded to. View Quote |
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Documenting the decline of Earth since 2801 A.D.
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Originally Posted By Grunteled: So when Japan attacked PH, a perfectly valid military target despite being done as underhanded as possible, did we respond 'proportionally'... just bomb a few ships, shoot up a port and call it day once we got there? Were we primarily concerned with the civilian losses and how to reduce them to as close to zero as possible. Fuck right the hell off with 'proportional response'. Hamas declared absolute total war here. That is exactly how it should be responded to. View Quote proportionality has come to be interpeted as a requirement in the rules of war, as it is written when conducting actions you take into account the anticipated incidental loss of human life and damage to civilian objects and should not be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage expected from the destruction of a military objective. there is no requirement to meet force with like force |
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In the real world off-campus, good marksmanship trumps good will.
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Don't you tell me about galaxies! I walk them in the timeline.
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: LOL, the Commie Bus Driver kills his own people. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: There's a way to solve it. Measuring Against The Linchpin Itwas a method of determining which enemy civilians would be beheaded, used by the Mongols and other tribes that lived in the Mongolian plateau. Genghis Khan used this brutal method against Jamukha's coalition of tribes in 1202. All male captives were forced to walk beside a wagon wheel. If their heads were higher than the linchpin (a pin inserted at the end of the axle) they were immediately executed. The wagon wheel was a large wheel used to transport yurts and other goods. This technique was probably used to preempt against revenge attacks that were common between tribes at this time. If one tribe were to attack another, there was always the possibility that there would be a revenge attack soon after. By eliminating the older males, there was less chance of a counterattack from tribes that were in perpetual conflict due to centuries of distrust and robbery. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5413_jpeg-2987104.JPG Maduro is useful as a reverse barometer; whatever he says is 180 degrees from reality. In other words, as worthless as a Venezuelan Bolivar |
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Originally Posted By Ascendent: If NATO continues to obstruct Israel and enable HAMAS, the leadership must be branded as terrorists and removed from position. They are either with us or they are against us. View Quote |
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"You just flipped the safety selector on this thread from "Stupid' to "Full Retard" and started spraying lunacy from the hip in all directions."LoganSackett"
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Originally Posted By gettysburg30: there was already pictures of cribs, car seats snd childrens beds covered in blood. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By gettysburg30: Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL: Originally Posted By AK47_COMMBLOC: Originally Posted By DonS: The videos of the attacks on civilians, many made by the terrorists, are helping galvanize people against Gaza. Very useful IMO. where is the video of 40 babies being beheaded? ive heard it was fake news then keeps getting reported. which is it? It was verified by French and other media on site. I would not be surprised to see photos of that not shared. There were independent journalists there to see. They reported on it. there was already pictures of cribs, car seats snd childrens beds covered in blood. The report was 40 babies killed some decapitated. It's been the helmet headed, crayon eaters, of ARFCOM and Social Media that have landed on "40 decapitated babies in piles" and who need to see them all lined up on table with today's newspaper in the background or "it's all lies, remember the incubators". |
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Originally Posted By fike: Calm down. All NATO can do is complain. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By Ascendent: If NATO continues to obstruct Israel and enable HAMAS, the leadership must be branded as terrorists and removed from position. They are either with us or they are against us. Calm down. All NATO can do is complain. You don't find it concerning that NATO leadership is more aligned with Islamists? NATO may soon be at war with BRICS at this rate, the last thing I want to hear is support for terrorism. They should be the loudest voice calling for their elimination. |
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In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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Originally Posted By gettysburg30: there was already pictures of cribs, car seats snd childrens beds covered in blood. View Quote they were there to take hostages, babies make bad hostages. if anyone thinks the give a damn about babies and wouldn't just kill them like anyone else has not paid attention to what they're doing. |
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[Deleted]
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You should refurb one of those boats uxb was on when he got a lift from some guys who weren't really there to where he wasn't going from where he never was. - Kitties with Sigs
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Long thread here from an IDF veteran that tries to shed some light on, among other things, the terms proportionality and the moral framework the IDF and Israeli leaders use to conduct military actions. Also discusses the social aspect of Israeli units and how that factor in to how ops are planned and conducted. Things will be different this time it stands to reason, but we are in uncharted territory so buckle up.
Unrolled thread here - thread content also in spoiler tags belowClick To View Spoiler Jay Donde Some more perspective from my days in the IDF: In the weeks ahead, you'll struggle to reconcile your anger at Hamas with awful images of civilian casualties in Gaza. To help you arrive at your own conclusions, here's a primer on the IDF's moral framework for urban combat. 1/x It's worth noting that most of what I'm about to cover applies to all western militaries, not just the IDF. 2/x It's also worth noting that I think the reason that many folks struggle with this stuff is because the moral vocabulary of war is ugly, and people would rather not become conversant in it. 3/x Unfortunately, if you don't learn that vocabulary, you'll end up either unable to resolve your conflicting moral intuitions, or at the mercy of propagandists. 4/x Americans, especially, are vulnerable to this, because they're fundamentally good people and love rooting for the underdog. 5/x But the real world is not Braveheart. It's not always the case that the side with more dead, or the side that's not wearing fatigues, is the side of the morally superior freedom fighter. Again, what's needed is a moral vocabulary not derived from Hollywood blockbusters. 6/x So, let's start with some sociological context about the Israeli military. The vast majority of combat operations in the Occupied Territories are conducted by IDF regular army units, whose personnel are drafted from a broad cross section of Israeli society. 7/x Another major component of the Israeli security apparatus, particularly in and around Jerusalem, is the MAGAV, the Border Police, whose personnel primarily come from disadvantaged socioeconomic backgrounds. 8/x Finally, you have the elite special forces units (many of which can be identified by having the term "Sayeret" (reconnaissance) in their name) and the air force. 9/x What surprises many people about that last group is that most of its personnel come from the upper echelons of Israeli society, in particular communities like Kibbutzim that have traditionally been identified with the Left. 10/x There’s a ton of social cachet in having served in one of these units. Having Sayeret Matkal or Shayetet 13 on your resume in Israel is like having Harvard or Yale on your resume in the US. 11/x So, unlike the dynamic in the US, the Israeli left (again, particularly the Kibbutz community) considers itself the intellectual, social, and spiritual vanguard of Zionism and there's a sort of noblesse oblige around serving in elite combat roles. 12/x This has changed a bit in the last couple decades, with many sayeret recruits now coming from the religious nationalist and Russian immigrant communities, but it still largely holds true amongst the pilot and officer corps. 13/x Why am I mentioned all this? Because the moral calculus the IDF makes when considering whether to undertake operations that put civilian lives at risk isn't solely based on legal or philosophical treatises. It also has to consider what soldiers are actually willing to do. 14/x In multiple instances just in the last 20 years, the strange dynamic of the most educated and cosmopolitan members of Israeli society also being those serving in the most high-speed combat units has led to some strange outcomes. 15/x For example, there have been multiple protests -- some internal and some made public -- by both active duty and reservist soldiers in IAF and sayeret units against what they saw as illegal or immoral Israeli policies toward the Palestinians. 16/x This is why I always find claims of "Israeli commando death squads" and the like so laughable. The people making those claims have based their entire conceptualization of special forces soldiers around John J. Rambo. Sorry to disappoint y'all. First Blood was just a movie. 17/x I don't blame folks for falling for these claims, of course. Liberal Americans' heads would probably explode if they opened the NYT website one morning to the headline "Delta Force operators refuse to deploy in protest of administration policy towards Iraqi civilians." 18/x What can I say? Israel is a strange country. 19/x OK, but what about the actual framework under which operational decisions are made in light of risk to civilians? Pretty much every explanation of this you'll hear -- whether in regards to the IDF or another western military -- will focus on necessity and proportionality. 20/x These are bedrock concepts in international humanitarian law that dictate that a combat action must be necessary to achieve a legitimate military aim, and that the benefit derived from that action must be proportional to the risk to civilians. 21/x For example, let's say Israel identifies a tunnel under an apartment building in Gaza used to smuggle weapons. 22/x It could collapse the tunnel by bombing the apartment building, or it could do so by bombing an air vent for the tunnel in an unpopulated area. Let's also say that the tunnel is used to smuggle in heavy artillery, and the apartment is empty save for 10 civilians. 23/x Arguably, bombing the apartment building would be proportional. Considerably more lives would be saved by preventing heavy artillery to be used against Israeli towns than would be lost by bombing the building. But it wouldn't be necessary! The IDF could've bombed the vent. 24/x Conversely, let's say the tunnel was used to smuggle in small arms only, that there was no air vent to bomb, and the apartment building is full of 2,000 people (there are skyscrapers in this version of Gaza). Necessary? Maybe. Proportional? Ehhh, probably not. 25/x The point is, you need to satisfy both prongs. But this works both ways... 26/x If there's no air vent to bomb, the apartment building is full of 2,000 civilians, and the tunnel is being used to smuggle in large numbers of missiles to be fitted with chemical warheads? Bombing the apartment is almost certainly valid under international law. 27/x This is what I meant when I said earlier that the moral vocabulary of war is ugly. It's also why "vocabulary" is precisely the key concept. If the IDF did bomb that building, you'd hear a lot of people, many of whom should know better, talk about "disproportionate response." 28/x But proportionality in war isn't, NOR SHOULD IT BE, a simplistic concept of tallying up deaths on one side and tallying up deaths on another side, comparing the two numbers, and saying that one number is too big or too small. 29/x I think it's worth expanding on this, because it's so fundamental to why discussions of wars in the Middle East, or anywhere, are so rife with misunderstanding and dishonesty. 30/x You can take issue with how the IDF makes these types of decisions. And you can certainly take issue with how, after the decisions are made, the IDF ensures orders are followed and violations are punished. 31/x But if you want to argue that what Israel did in X operation is wrong, you have to do better than just "too many civilians died." 32/x You need to explain whether you think the operation was conducted in violation of the IDF's moral framework, and why; or you need to explain why you think that framework is flawed, and what alternative framework you suggest. 33/x You don't need to know all the operational details, and you don't need to have a PhD in philosophy. Reasonable laypeople can make reasonable objections. 34/x But you do have to do better than circulate context-free charts on Twitter comparing Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths and claiming that, ipso facto, Israel is in the wrong. 35/x Exercising a modicum of seriousness about this topic should be table stakes. Those who don't take it seriously by making specific objections or bothering to formulate alternative frameworks (and explaining why they're better) are doing a grave disservice. 36/x Lack of seriousness on this topic in the public discourse leads on the one hand to such a hands off approach that terrorists have free rein to murder thousands of civilians, or on the other hand to illegal collective punishment of entire populations. 37/x This is already getting long, so let me just tease part 2, which I'll try to post tomorrow. In practice, a number of other considerations come into play beyond necessity and proportionality, because those concepts are simply to broad to serve as the sole criteria. 38/x So, stay tuned and I'll explain what those other considerations are, and how they played out in different ways when Israel was wrestling with the legitimacy of two effective tactics the IDF developed in the early 2000s: wall tunneling and neighbor protocol. 39/39 • • • Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh |
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“...in the hands of politicians grand designs achieve nothing but new forms of the old misery...”
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Originally Posted By Naporter: Well, yeah. That's how joint operations usually work. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Naporter: Originally Posted By AZNetEng: Originally Posted By Anastasios: Originally Posted By DCV_117: Don't know how credible this is but Ben Shapiro just shared it
Newsmax just reported multiple paragliders and drones coming in from Lebanon. Well, yeah. That's how joint operations usually work. |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: ~3:20 video right from the mouth of HAMAS brought to you by the fine folks at RT about their planning, rationale, and support for the attack on Israel. View Quote All the wailing and gnashing of teeth about Iran and Hamas and to a lesser degree Syria but GD has danced around mentioning their boyfriend Putin, the man at the top of the shit-state food chain. |
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: ~3:20 video right from the mouth of HAMAS brought to you by the fine folks at RT about their planning, rationale, and support for the attack on Israel. View Quote |
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Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
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NY Post Reporter SLAMS Karine Jean-Pierre For Blacklisting Him From Asking Questions
Chaos Ensues As NY Post Reporter SLAMS Karine Jean-Pierre For Blacklisting Him From Asking Questions |
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Originally Posted By AgeOne: they were there to take hostages, babies make bad hostages. if anyone thinks the give a damn about babies and wouldn't just kill them like anyone else has not paid attention to what they're doing. View Quote There are a lot of smooth brains out there who would not believe it with even pictures and video. |
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Originally Posted By Ascendent: If NATO continues to obstruct Israel and enable HAMAS, the leadership must be branded as terrorists and removed from position. They are either with us or they are against us. View Quote |
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Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
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Land of the once free & the home of the narrative.
AL, USA
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"Whoever makes himself great will be made humble. Whoever makes himself humble will be made great." -Jesus
"if it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth" - Linus from Charlie Brown |
Originally Posted By Grunteled: So when Japan attacked PH, a perfectly valid military target despite being done as underhanded as possible, did we respond 'proportionally'... just bomb a few ships, shoot up a port and call it day once we got there? Were we primarily concerned with the civilian losses and how to reduce them to as close to zero as possible. Fuck right the hell off with 'proportional response'. Hamas declared absolute total war here. That is exactly how it should be responded to. View Quote Hamas declared that civilians and non-combatants, especially the most vulnerable like children and elderly were specifically the target in this new war they have declared. I say CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!! I want to see every single (surviving) resident of Gaza walk out single file with their hands above their heads and be processed as EPW's. |
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Originally Posted By Ascendent: You don't find it concerning that NATO leadership is more aligned with Islamists? View Quote |
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Documenting the decline of Earth since 2801 A.D.
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Originally Posted By ChrisLe: NATOs warning is the UN equivalent of a strongly worded letter of condemnation. It isn't worth the paper its printed on.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ChrisLe: Originally Posted By Ascendent: If NATO continues to obstruct Israel and enable HAMAS, the leadership must be branded as terrorists and removed from position. They are either with us or they are against us. Now, NATO bases that we may want to use may become an issue, but if we decide NATO needs to go, they are gone. No US dollars, no NATO. |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: ~3:20 video right from the mouth of HAMAS brought to you by the fine folks at RT about their planning, rationale, and support for the attack on Israel. View Quote Interesting. Can the US military industrial base support two major conflicts simultaneously? |
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Velocitas, Incursio, Vis
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Originally Posted By R0N: proportionality has come to be interpeted as a requirement in the rules of war, as it is written when conducting actions you take into account the anticipated incidental loss of human life and damage to civilian objects and should not be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage expected from the destruction of a military objective. there is no requirement to meet force with like force View Quote Well, I may be taking it outside it's clinical definition as you indicate but the way they are trotting it out right now makes it sound like there are defined military installations in Gaza, that once subdued they should back off and let the IC go in and begin this cycle anew. This is a cancerous population that overwhelmingly supports the genocide of Israel's population and this proves fencing that off and leaving it to fester inside your country isn't viable. So I have no idea how anyone expects them to truly sift the wheat from chaff here to be honest. There is no real solution but the elimination of that carve-out completely. Fight till the resistance ends and then evacuate it. |
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Aljazeera:
More rocket sirens in southern Israel, clash reported By Mohammed Jamjoom in Ashdod, southern Israel More rocket sirens sounding in towns and cities and villages in southern Israel on the border with Gaza, included among those towns and villages are Strodt as well as Nir Am. In Nir Am, the Israeli army says there have been clashes going on in the last hour between the Israeli army and between what the Israeli army describes as a vehicle that was filled with Hamas fighters. Earlier, a rocket which had been launched from Gaza hit a hospital in Ashkelon. What we’ve been told is that, further south from Ashkelon, that sort of a military barrier has now been established so that if people are going to the south, as a civilian, or as a journalist, you may be able to get into Ashkelon, but you cannot go any further. |
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"The beginning of freedom from anger is stillness of the mouth when the heart is troubled"- Saint John Climacus
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The Hirohima/Nagasaki model of Proportionality is one the Israelis need to be prescribing to.
If they want to save future lives, this must be dealt with once and for all. No backing down, no leaving unfinished business. Eliminate Gaza completely and shut it down for any use except Israeli interests. Iran has made it perfectly clear for Decades they want Israel wiped from the planet. You have seen evidence time and time again for this in destroyed Israeli lives and family. If Israel wants to heal this festering wound, they must do the needful starting with Gaza. Then move on to Iran. With NATO help if needed. Either we take care of this now, or we will succumb. We are getting weaker, rotting from the inside. In everything, Time is of the Essence. It has been and always will be the most important and most overlooked element of any equation. Edit: I'm logging off for awhile, my crossbow is waiting. |
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In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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Originally Posted By Anastasios: Aljazeera: In Nir Am, the Israeli army says there have been clashes going on in the last hour between the Israeli army and between what the Israeli army describes as a vehicle that was filled with Hamas fighters. View Quote It takes an hour to shwack one vehicle? |
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Originally Posted By realwar: NY Post Reporter SLAMS Karine Jean-Pierre For Blacklisting Him From Asking Questions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epa6y1VGjDQ View Quote Absolutely S L A M M E D. |
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9 sec video of launch and impact |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By VTD: Originally Posted By VACaver: Does anyone remember or have a link to an old video that supposedly showed Arab dead bodies covered with sheets, but one of them moves while the video was being shot? A friend needs to see how the Aras will fake videos to gain public support. https://twitter.com/rose_k01/status/1712097778695086113?s=20 This? No. The one I'm thinking of had bodies lined up under sheets and one of them moves to scratch his nose or something. |
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John Kirby Admits Hamas Couldn't "Function" Without Iran Even After Biden Gifted Iran $6 Billion
John Kirby Admits Hamas Couldn't "Function" Without Iran Even After Biden Gifted Iran $6 Billion John Kirby: Prepare For "Very Distinct Possibility" American Death Toll In Israel Will Keep Rising John Kirby: Prepare For "Very Distinct Possibility" American Death Toll In Israel Will Keep Rising |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By bikedamon: All the wailing and gnashing of teeth about Iran and Hamas and to a lesser degree Syria but GD has danced around mentioning their boyfriend Putin, the man at the top of the shit-state food chain. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By bikedamon: Originally Posted By HIPPO: ~3:20 video right from the mouth of HAMAS brought to you by the fine folks at RT about their planning, rationale, and support for the attack on Israel. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth about Iran and Hamas and to a lesser degree Syria but GD has danced around mentioning their boyfriend Putin, the man at the top of the shit-state food chain. There are people here that have too much invested in Russia “not being that bad”. They aren’t coming to terms with it easily (or will refuse to). |
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: 9 sec video of launch and impact View Quote Lil more impactful than the homemade ordinance Palis are launching. |
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Have another hit of sweet California sunshine
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Lots of artillery since this hour started.
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Originally Posted By Ascendent: The Hirohima/Nagasaki model of Proportionality is one the Israelis need to be prescribing to. If they want to save future lives, this must be dealt with once and for all. No backing down, no leaving unfinished business. Eliminate Gaza completely and shut it down for any use except Israeli interests. Iran has made it perfectly clear for Decades they want Israel wiped from the planet. You have seen evidence time and time again for this in destroyed Israeli lives and family. If Israel wants to heal this festering wound, they must do the needful starting with Gaza. Then move on to Iran. With NATO help if needed. Either we take care of this now, or we will succumb. We are getting weaker, rotting from the inside. In everything, Time is of the Essence. It has been and always will be the most important and most overlooked element of any equation. Edit: I'm logging off for awhile, my crossbow is waiting. View Quote |
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Documenting the decline of Earth since 2801 A.D.
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KIRBY: No Plans For State Dept To Airlift U.S. Citizens From Israel, Says They Should Book A Flight
KIRBY: No Plans For State Dept To Airlift U.S. Citizens From Israel, Says They Should Book A Flight Biden Spox John Kirby Brushes Off "Price" Iran Should Pay For Longstanding Support Of Hamas Top Biden Spox John Kirby Brushes Off "Price" Iran Should Pay For Longstanding Support Of Hamas Kirby Says Biden Has No Plans To Change His Energy Policies Amid Iran Oil Sales Biden Spokesman John Kirby Says Biden Has No Plans To Change His Energy Policies Amid Iran Oil Sales |
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