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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5704_jpeg-2989496.JPG View Quote Are they lying to is or themselves? |
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Originally Posted By R0N: Probably more than academic. They know at the end of a empire's life all that is necessary is the right nudge to cause its collapses, and empires tend to collapse because their economies cannot support both its domestic spending and its overseas commit View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By R0N: Originally Posted By Rifle_length: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz: North Korean weapons, that lines up well with this being a Chinese/Iran backed operation. China has no interest in this fight. If anything, I would say Russia instead of China, as Russia has been tight with Kim Jong-Un procuring arms shipments for their continuing war in Ukraine. Probably more than academic. They know at the end of a empire's life all that is necessary is the right nudge to cause its collapses, and empires tend to collapse because their economies cannot support both its domestic spending and its overseas commit |
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Israel has no choice now but to make an example out of Gaza. Any sign of weakness or backing down will only lead to more attacks. This is the fight that will determine the destiny of their grandchildren.
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Originally Posted By millfire517: Still some good people left here View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By millfire517: Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8ROyg3XYAAyJ2C?format=jpg&name=small Until they don't. |
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Originally Posted By texashomeserver: Amnesty International states "We have verified that the Israeli military units striking Gaza are equipped with white phosphorus artillery shells" "We are investigating what appears to be Israel's use of white phosphorus in Gaza, including a raid near a hotel in the city" "The Israeli authorities must immediately restore electricity supplies in Gaza and lift the illegal siege on the Strip for 16 years" "Collective punishment of civilians in Gaza is inhumane and amounts to a war crime" View Quote They can eat a dick too |
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The best way to help yourself is to help others. -unknown
Before you ask, Biden sucks, Putin sucks, Zelensky sucks, Ukraine is a giant money laundering scheme, and Trump sucks I'm voting for Camacho '24 |
Originally Posted By Scar811: Are they lying to is or themselves? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Scar811: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5704_jpeg-2989496.JPG Are they lying to is or themselves? Yes |
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Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. Psalm 144:1
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Originally Posted By The_Like_Button: Israel has no choice now but to make an example out of Gaza. Any sign of weakness or backing down will only lead to more attacks. This is the fight that will determine the destiny of their grandchildren. View Quote From what I'm hearing, I don't think they have a plan. I hope they come up with one soon... |
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Originally Posted By texashomeserver: Amnesty International states "We have verified that the Israeli military units striking Gaza are equipped with white phosphorus artillery shells" "We are investigating what appears to be Israel's use of white phosphorus in Gaza, including a raid near a hotel in the city" "The Israeli authorities must immediately restore electricity supplies in Gaza and lift the illegal siege on the Strip for 16 years" "Collective punishment of civilians in Gaza is inhumane and amounts to a war crime" View Quote AI can get fucked. As can the UN and NATO. |
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VCDL Executive Member - JOIN VCDL: https://vcdl.org/page/join
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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A Grendel's Love is different from a 5.56's Love
SC, USA
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I would not put it past Hamas to try a dirty bomb in the near future. I am surprised they haven’t done it already.
You can make them with common goods. They aren’t tactically effective but the psychological effects would be huge. |
Leave me alone. I’m a libertarian. CW vet x7, give away a kidney to a loved one if they need it.
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-hamas-war-other-fronts-iran-minister-amir-abdollahian-hezbollah-warning/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5708_jpeg-2989566.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5709_jpeg-2989567.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5710_jpeg-2989568.JPG View Quote Gaza 1st. Syria after if they don't sit the fuck still. Iran had best do the same. |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: reported ~1 hr ago View Quote That will take about 10 seconds to turn into a riot. |
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Originally Posted By texashomeserver: Amnesty International states "We have verified that the Israeli military units striking Gaza are equipped with white phosphorus artillery shells" "We are investigating what appears to be Israel's use of white phosphorus in Gaza, including a raid near a hotel in the city" "The Israeli authorities must immediately restore electricity supplies in Gaza and lift the illegal siege on the Strip for 16 years" "Collective punishment of civilians in Gaza is inhumane and amounts to a war crime" View Quote |
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lol |
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Originally Posted By Scar811: Are they lying to is or themselves? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Scar811: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_5704_jpeg-2989496.JPG Are they lying to is or themselves? |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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I'm a good listener
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Originally Posted By Voland: From what I'm hearing, I don't think they have a plan. I hope they come up with one soon... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Voland: Originally Posted By The_Like_Button: Israel has no choice now but to make an example out of Gaza. Any sign of weakness or backing down will only lead to more attacks. This is the fight that will determine the destiny of their grandchildren. From what I'm hearing, I don't think they have a plan. I hope they come up with one soon... Zero chance the IDF doesn't have an off-the-shelf plan for reoccupying Gaza. They didn't just start figuring out what targets to hit in the air campaign the morning after the attacks. |
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ABC has a Palestinian journalist cock sucker on there right now. These people are completely delusional. He says the news is lying and no got raped, etc. GTFO.
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You should refurb one of those boats uxb was on when he got a lift from some guys who weren't really there to where he wasn't going from where he never was. - Kitties with Sigs
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: lol View Quote Hey, why not? If Fetterman (or whoever is pretending to be Fetterman, right now) can advertise for Carhartt, I have no problem with this. |
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Originally Posted By HighLighter: I predict a nothing burger. Just like Rumsfeld’s “shock and awe” just a big let down. Israel will stop short of solving the problem like they always do. View Quote Yeah, I’m not sure about that, they just endured the worst massacre of their history. Sure they’ve had losses before but the cruelty and savagery of this one isn’t even over with the hostages still in danger. |
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I've been battling some internal demons this week, so far I'm 0 for 6.
كافر. |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Anyone want to speculate what's taking Israel so long to go into Gaza? You would think living next to a neighbor you're 24/7 at war with, you would have plans for a full-scale ground operation ready to go at a moments notice.
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Israeli army spokesman said they are having all the Israeli troops drive through Re'im kibbutz(where the supernova festival massacre was) on the way towards gaza to see first hand the massacre. Says they are going to make hamas pay dearly.
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: If you have the time add in some calls and written stamped letters. Those staffers report volume to the reps they work for. "Congressman Bob we got 10,000 calls or emails or letters today about ___X___" when they get overwhelmed that's when there's more of a chance of getting reps attention View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By dogsplat: Emailed congressman yesteryday. Subject- immigration Title- Palestinian refugees Comment- zero. Zilch. Nada. I would email my senators but . You know .. If you have the time add in some calls and written stamped letters. Those staffers report volume to the reps they work for. "Congressman Bob we got 10,000 calls or emails or letters today about ___X___" when they get overwhelmed that's when there's more of a chance of getting reps attention |
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: lol View Quote I wonder if he still supports banning "assault weapons" after what just happened.... |
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Originally Posted By cXpSRi3x: Anyone want to speculate what's taking Israel so long to go into Gaza? You would think living next to a neighbor you're 24/7 at war with, you would have plans for a full-scale ground operation ready to go at a moments notice. View Quote Tell me you’ve never been in combat without actually telling me you’ve never been in combat. |
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Originally Posted By texashomeserver: Iraq protest - https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/13/15/76523099-0-image-m-13_1697206224595.jpg View Quote Japan? |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By HIPPO: lol View Quote Originally Posted By craig19: Hey, why not? If Fetterman (or whoever is pretending to be Fetterman, right now) can advertise for Carhartt, I have no problem with this. View Quote LOL my ass. He volunteered with the IDF before he became a congressman. |
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Semper Fi Dog Rescue adopter
Bullets, blades, bourbon, and buoyancy. Not necessarily in that order. |
Originally Posted By cXpSRi3x: Anyone want to speculate what's taking Israel so long to go into Gaza? You would think living next to a neighbor you're 24/7 at war with, you would have plans for a full-scale ground operation ready to go at a moments notice. View Quote No hurry. Not like they are going anywhere. Let them enjoy waiting for their destruction. |
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Originally Posted By Birddog1911: LOL my ass. He volunteered with the IDF before he became a congressman. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8U0ac-W0AAATfJ?format=jpg&name=900x900 View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Drsalee: I don't get it. I thought the Jews controlled the media. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Drsalee: Originally Posted By CouchCommando22: Yup. There is an outcry when Israel defends itself. They just gloss over the fact that less than a week ago 1300 were killed in the most brutal ways possible. It is pathetic how anti-Semitic the world is. Our media is just as bad I don't get it. I thought the Jews controlled the media. Liberalism is a cancer. That comment was for the site because I know you already know that. |
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100%-PureBlood-100%
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Turning to the Middle East, there are two nations that have a history of engaging in proliferation activities with North Korea that are becoming increasingly estranged from the international community: Iran and Syria
.. North Korea’s illicit arms dealing with Iran began in the early 1980s. During the Iran-Iraq war, about 90 percent of North Korea’s arms exports were destined for Iran. Missile cooperation began during this time period. https://warontherocks.com/2023/09/north-koreas-coming-breakout/ |
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American by birth. Southern by the grace of God.
Any opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect upon any agency or organization with which I may be employed or affiliated. |
Originally Posted By Zhukov: Of the West (as a whole), yes. Of the region that supplies the oil that keeps their economy going? Not so much. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By mooreshawnm: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz: North Korean weapons, that lines up well with this being a Chinese/Iran backed operation. China has no interest in this fight. If anything, I would say Russia instead of China, as Russia has been tight with Kim Jong-Un procuring arms shipments for their continuing war in Ukraine. Disagree. China has a very real interest in disruption, division and distraction in the west. Of the West (as a whole), yes. Of the region that supplies the oil that keeps their economy going? Not so much. This spring the Chinese hosted a shotgun wedding with Iran and Saudi Arabia reestablishing diplomatic ties, topped this summer by announcement of a "joint naval force" between them. I never believed that would last more than about ten minutes, but China apparently thought they could achieve some regional stability. However a couple months later Israel and the Saudis were approaching a normalization of relations agreement that suggested an imminent alliance against Iran, which was also occurring while Chinese economic power was waning and their oil imports were shifting gradually from SA to Russia. The Saudis were feeling pretty naked since Iranian nukes are either almost done or exist in small numbers and they were no longer under the US conventional and nuclear umbrella due to their relations with the Biden administration. Russia was embarrassing itself in Ukraine, the Chinese can't project force for shit and have divided interests, so the Israelis with their SSBN's and F-35's were plan B. The Hamas attack disrupted the formation of an Israeli/Saudi alliance that was forming against Iran. The Chinese may have taken Iran's side after feeling betrayed by SA and Israel clearly approaching alliance against Iran, against Chinese wishes for stability. The Chinese might think that distracting Israel now in Palestine delays an Israeli/SA vs Iran war that would disrupt oil production. Distract Israel long enough and the Iranian nuclear program matures to the point that they have a robust nuclear deterrent that can't be taken out by an Israeli/SA preemptive strike. True the risk of a limited Israel vs Iran war has skyrocketed, but neither of them produce much oil for China, while the risk of an Israeli/SA alliance war vs Iran, which would spread to oil fields producing ~40% of China's oil supply, has fallen. Perhaps the Chinese prefer that their oil supply lie threatened by a regional MAD cold war rather than destroyed by a hot conventional war. |
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Originally Posted By fadedsun: That would cause Tehran to get flashed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By FMJ0311: Pure speculation. Iran smuggled a crude nuke into Gaza. They plan to draw as many IDF in as possible and detonate. That would cause Tehran to get flashed. They should have been flashed in 1979! |
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Originally Posted By AlamTX: It's akin to pointing a gun at a threat to your life and having the mercy to give them time to run. I'm humbled by their kindness. Long live Israel. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AlamTX: Originally Posted By YAT_YAS: Fo Time soon?
I'm humbled by their kindness. Long live Israel. They’re getting their three steps towards the door and it appears that Israel is angry enough this time that they better take them. |
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Click To View Spoiler Hamas Attack on Israel Brings New Scrutiny of Group’s Ties to Iran Officials from Iran and Hezbollah helped plan the attack, people familiar with the operation said, but the U.S. and its allies have not found evidence directly linking Tehran. 1m ago Hamas rockets launching toward Israel last weekend from Gaza. Iran has helped Hamas design and produce a domestic missile and rocket system. Hamas rockets launching toward Israel last weekend from Gaza. Iran has helped Hamas design and produce a domestic missile and rocket system.Fatima Shbair/Associated Press Oct. 13, 2023, 5:48 a.m. ET Last weekend’s attack on Israel by Hamas has brought renewed scrutiny of the armed Palestinian group’s longstanding relationship with Iran, and questions about whether the Gaza-based group could have pulled off such a sophisticated and devastating operation on its own. Iran has a long history of training and arming proxy militia groups in the region, from Gaza to Lebanon, Iraq and Syria. It supports Hamas militarily and has helped it design and produce a domestic missile and rocket system to match the capabilities and material available in Gaza — an impoverished, densely populated coastal strip that has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt for the past 16 years. And over the past year, there have been signs that Iran and its proxies were preparing to take a more aggressive approach toward Israel. Gen. Esmail Ghaani, who is in charge of supervising Iran’s network of proxy militias as head of the country’s paramilitary Quds Force, repeatedly traveled to Lebanon for covert sessions with leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah, a Shiite Lebanese militia that Iran also supports. Over the past year, Mr. Ghaani worked to coordinate and unify all of Iran’s proxies, according to public statements from Iranian analysts and five Iranians familiar with the work of the country’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, held an hourslong online meeting in March with an elite group of strategists from all the Iran-backed militias and told them to get ready for a war with Israel with a scope and reach — including a ground invasion — that would mark a new era, according to two participants from Iran and Syria. The participants spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the meeting. There are conflicting accounts of whether these activities were leading specifically toward last week’s attack by Hamas, which left 1,200 Israelis dead and shattered the country’s sense of security. Some people familiar with the operation said that a tight circle of leaders from Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas helped plan the attack starting over a year ago, trained militants and had advanced knowledge of it. That account is based on interviews with three Iranians affiliated with the Revolutionary Guards, one Iranian connected to senior leadership and a Syrian affiliated with Hezbollah. Other people say they believe Iran had some involvement but it was not as deep. “The implementation was all Hamas, but we do not deny Iran’s help and support,” said Ali Barakeh, a senior Hamas official based in Beirut. Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has publicly denied the country played a role, even as he and other Iranian leaders praised the carnage. “We kiss the foreheads and arms of the resourceful and intelligent designers,” Mr. Khamenei said this week in his first televised speech since the attack. But he added: “Those who say that the recent saga is the work of non-Palestinians have miscalculated.” The United States, Israel and key regional allies have said they have not found evidence in early intelligence gathering that Iran directly helped plan the attack. The United States has collected multiple pieces of intelligence that show that key Iranian leaders were surprised by it, according to several American officials, including people who would typically be aware of operations involving the Quds Forces. Israel has also been examining what it knew. “Israeli intelligence does not have any information according to which Iran initiated or was involved or directly assisted in the terrible attack,” said Nir Dinar, a spokesman for Israel’s military. “On the other hand, one has to be naïve to think that those in Tehran woke up on Saturday morning and were surprised to hear the news about what happened.” It may take months or years to learn all that went into planning the attack, and why Israel’s sophisticated intelligence operation missed it. Many parties have incentives to spread disinformation or emphasize different aspects of the narrative; some may want to expand the war as others seek to limit it. “We obviously don’t know what happened behind the scenes. This is going to be privileged, secret information that was meant to be kept secret,” said Afshon Ostovar, an expert on Iran’s military and proxies and an associate professor at Naval Postgraduate School. He added that it was safe to assume “some level of coordination,” because Iran and Lebanon would not have wanted to be caught off guard by the attack. Hamas gunmen captured and interrogated by Israel said they had been training for the latest operation for a year, according to Israeli defense officials. Abu Ubaida, the Hamas spokesman in the Gaza Strip, said in a televised speech that the group had organized a 3,000-person battalion for the attack and had another 1,500 backup fighters. On Tuesday, Israel said it had killed close to 1,600 of those attackers. Mr. Barakeh, the Hamas official in Beirut, said in an interview that the attack plans were so tightly held that he only found out about the assault when he received a slew of text messages early on Saturday morning. Still, training had been taking place in Lebanon and Syria, and a secret joint command center had been set up in Beirut, according to the Iranians and the Syrian familiar with the operation. Hezbollah’s top commandos, experienced in urban guerrilla warfare, trained Hamas members in Syria and Lebanon, according to two Iranians. Paragliders trained in Lebanon, they said, while in Syria, the Hamas members were trained to raid Israeli communities and take civilians hostage. Hezbollah has helped train other Iran-backed militias from the region before, such as the Houthis in Yemen. The Lebanese group also deployed fighters to Syria during the war there, where they trained and fought alongside Syria’s army. Over the past six months, Hezbollah created provocations meant to mislead and distract Israel along its northern border with Lebanon and in Syria so it would think the real threat was coming from those areas, according to two Iranians briefed after the attack. An Israeli intelligence official confirmed that hundreds of Palestinian fighters from Hamas and other groups, and possibly even more, have been trained in Hezbollah camps in Syria and Lebanon over the past years. While they may have been trained on skills used in the recent attack, he said, that does not mean that the Iranians knew how and when they would use that training. One of the Iranians briefed on the operation said that four days before the attack, all those participating were rounded up by Hamas commanders and isolated. Their electronic devices were confiscated and they had no contact with the outside world, something that could help explain why Israel was blindsided. On Oct. 7, several hours before launching the operation, this person said, Hamas commanders informed the attackers that they would be invading Israel on speedboats, on paragliders and over land by breaking through the barbed wire fence along the territory’s border using tractors. This account of how the attack was carried out could not be independently verified. In retrospect, some warning signs that Israel missed may now be more apparent. In September, Israeli intelligence officials told The New York Times that they had intelligence suggesting Mr. Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, had ordered a wide campaign against Israel including targeting its citizens abroad, conducting sabotage inside its borders, and smuggling sophisticated weapons to the Palestinians to ignite a civil war in the West Bank. That was in retaliation for shadow war operations conducted by Israel in Iran, they said. It was not the only talk of broad action. In various meetings of Iran’s proxy militias, several attendees said, the emphasis from leaders was that it was time to take advantage of Israel’s seething internal divisions over the judicial overhaul pushed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right coalition. In the meeting Mr. Nasrallah held in March, he told militants to prepare for a war on a scale that would mark a turning point in the decades-long Arab-Israeli conflict (though it is unclear whether he had last week’s attack in mind). Similarly, in audio reviewed by The Times of an April discussion among members of the Revolutionary Guards, including those involved with proxies in the region, a speaker said, “The message that is being communicated from Iran these days to the resistance is that we showcase a military maneuver to make the Zionist regime understand it is surrounded from every side.” Even before the Hamas attack, some Israeli intelligence officials said that in hindsight, they regretted their support for Israeli targeted killings in Iran and operations to sabotage its nuclear and military facilities, because they had not been a significant deterrent to either Iran’s nuclear program or its regional activities. In fact, they had put Iran and Israel on a path of direct confrontation, one of the officials said. On Oct. 3, four days before Hamas launched its attack on southern Israel, Mr. Khamenei’s official account in Farsi posted a message on X, formerly known as Twitter, that said: “Israel will be gone.” The planners of the terror attack on Israel most certainly knew that it carried the risk of igniting a wider regional war. But the parties have long wanted to avenge an accumulation of grievances — from Israeli airstrikes on Gaza and Syria, to the long blockade of Gaza, to the covert war against Iran — amid a long-held collective determination to destroy Israel. They may also have hoped to force Israel into major concessions, like lifting the blockade or keeping Israeli forces from entering the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem’s Old City — one of Islam’s holiest sites. Hamas named its operation against Israel “The Aqsa Flood.” Hwaida Saad contributed reporting from Beirut. Farnaz Fassihi is a reporter for The New York Times based in New York. Previously she was a senior writer and war correspondent for the Wall Street Journal for 17 years based in the Middle East. More about Farnaz Fassihi Ronen Bergman is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, based in Tel Aviv. His latest book is “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations,” published by Random House. More about Ronen Bergman View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By HIPPO:
New York Times: "Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, held an hourslong online meeting in March with an elite group of strategists from all the Iran-backed militias and told them to get ready for a war with Israel with a scope and reach — including a ground invasion — that would mark a new era, according to two participants from Iran and Syria" https://nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/hamas-iran-israel-attack.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
New York Times: "Training had been taking place in Lebanon and Syria, and a secret joint command center had been set up in Beirut, according to the Iranians and the Syrian familiar with the operation. Hezbollah’s top commandos, experienced in urban guerrilla warfare, trained Hamas members in Syria and Lebanon, according to two Iranians. Paragliders trained in Lebanon, they said, while in Syria, the Hamas members were trained to raid Israeli communities and take civilians hostage."
"In September, Israeli intelligence officials told The New York Times that they had intelligence suggesting Mr. Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, had ordered a wide campaign against Israel including targeting its citizens abroad, conducting sabotage inside its borders, and smuggling sophisticated weapons to the Palestinians to ignite a civil war in the West Bank."
New York Times: "In various meetings of Iran’s proxy militias, several attendees said, the emphasis from leaders was that it was time to take advantage of Israel’s seething internal divisions over the judicial overhaul pushed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right coalition. In the meeting Mr. Nasrallah held in March, he told militants to prepare for a war on a scale that would mark a turning point in the decades-long Arab-Israeli conflict (though it is unclear whether he had last week’s attack in mind)."
Click To View Spoiler Hamas Attack on Israel Brings New Scrutiny of Group’s Ties to Iran Officials from Iran and Hezbollah helped plan the attack, people familiar with the operation said, but the U.S. and its allies have not found evidence directly linking Tehran. 1m ago Hamas rockets launching toward Israel last weekend from Gaza. Iran has helped Hamas design and produce a domestic missile and rocket system. Hamas rockets launching toward Israel last weekend from Gaza. Iran has helped Hamas design and produce a domestic missile and rocket system.Fatima Shbair/Associated Press Oct. 13, 2023, 5:48 a.m. ET Last weekend’s attack on Israel by Hamas has brought renewed scrutiny of the armed Palestinian group’s longstanding relationship with Iran, and questions about whether the Gaza-based group could have pulled off such a sophisticated and devastating operation on its own. Iran has a long history of training and arming proxy militia groups in the region, from Gaza to Lebanon, Iraq and Syria. It supports Hamas militarily and has helped it design and produce a domestic missile and rocket system to match the capabilities and material available in Gaza — an impoverished, densely populated coastal strip that has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt for the past 16 years. And over the past year, there have been signs that Iran and its proxies were preparing to take a more aggressive approach toward Israel. Gen. Esmail Ghaani, who is in charge of supervising Iran’s network of proxy militias as head of the country’s paramilitary Quds Force, repeatedly traveled to Lebanon for covert sessions with leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah, a Shiite Lebanese militia that Iran also supports. Over the past year, Mr. Ghaani worked to coordinate and unify all of Iran’s proxies, according to public statements from Iranian analysts and five Iranians familiar with the work of the country’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, held an hourslong online meeting in March with an elite group of strategists from all the Iran-backed militias and told them to get ready for a war with Israel with a scope and reach — including a ground invasion — that would mark a new era, according to two participants from Iran and Syria. The participants spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the meeting. There are conflicting accounts of whether these activities were leading specifically toward last week’s attack by Hamas, which left 1,200 Israelis dead and shattered the country’s sense of security. Some people familiar with the operation said that a tight circle of leaders from Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas helped plan the attack starting over a year ago, trained militants and had advanced knowledge of it. That account is based on interviews with three Iranians affiliated with the Revolutionary Guards, one Iranian connected to senior leadership and a Syrian affiliated with Hezbollah. Other people say they believe Iran had some involvement but it was not as deep. “The implementation was all Hamas, but we do not deny Iran’s help and support,” said Ali Barakeh, a senior Hamas official based in Beirut. Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has publicly denied the country played a role, even as he and other Iranian leaders praised the carnage. “We kiss the foreheads and arms of the resourceful and intelligent designers,” Mr. Khamenei said this week in his first televised speech since the attack. But he added: “Those who say that the recent saga is the work of non-Palestinians have miscalculated.” The United States, Israel and key regional allies have said they have not found evidence in early intelligence gathering that Iran directly helped plan the attack. The United States has collected multiple pieces of intelligence that show that key Iranian leaders were surprised by it, according to several American officials, including people who would typically be aware of operations involving the Quds Forces. Israel has also been examining what it knew. “Israeli intelligence does not have any information according to which Iran initiated or was involved or directly assisted in the terrible attack,” said Nir Dinar, a spokesman for Israel’s military. “On the other hand, one has to be naïve to think that those in Tehran woke up on Saturday morning and were surprised to hear the news about what happened.” It may take months or years to learn all that went into planning the attack, and why Israel’s sophisticated intelligence operation missed it. Many parties have incentives to spread disinformation or emphasize different aspects of the narrative; some may want to expand the war as others seek to limit it. “We obviously don’t know what happened behind the scenes. This is going to be privileged, secret information that was meant to be kept secret,” said Afshon Ostovar, an expert on Iran’s military and proxies and an associate professor at Naval Postgraduate School. He added that it was safe to assume “some level of coordination,” because Iran and Lebanon would not have wanted to be caught off guard by the attack. Hamas gunmen captured and interrogated by Israel said they had been training for the latest operation for a year, according to Israeli defense officials. Abu Ubaida, the Hamas spokesman in the Gaza Strip, said in a televised speech that the group had organized a 3,000-person battalion for the attack and had another 1,500 backup fighters. On Tuesday, Israel said it had killed close to 1,600 of those attackers. Mr. Barakeh, the Hamas official in Beirut, said in an interview that the attack plans were so tightly held that he only found out about the assault when he received a slew of text messages early on Saturday morning. Still, training had been taking place in Lebanon and Syria, and a secret joint command center had been set up in Beirut, according to the Iranians and the Syrian familiar with the operation. Hezbollah’s top commandos, experienced in urban guerrilla warfare, trained Hamas members in Syria and Lebanon, according to two Iranians. Paragliders trained in Lebanon, they said, while in Syria, the Hamas members were trained to raid Israeli communities and take civilians hostage. Hezbollah has helped train other Iran-backed militias from the region before, such as the Houthis in Yemen. The Lebanese group also deployed fighters to Syria during the war there, where they trained and fought alongside Syria’s army. Over the past six months, Hezbollah created provocations meant to mislead and distract Israel along its northern border with Lebanon and in Syria so it would think the real threat was coming from those areas, according to two Iranians briefed after the attack. An Israeli intelligence official confirmed that hundreds of Palestinian fighters from Hamas and other groups, and possibly even more, have been trained in Hezbollah camps in Syria and Lebanon over the past years. While they may have been trained on skills used in the recent attack, he said, that does not mean that the Iranians knew how and when they would use that training. One of the Iranians briefed on the operation said that four days before the attack, all those participating were rounded up by Hamas commanders and isolated. Their electronic devices were confiscated and they had no contact with the outside world, something that could help explain why Israel was blindsided. On Oct. 7, several hours before launching the operation, this person said, Hamas commanders informed the attackers that they would be invading Israel on speedboats, on paragliders and over land by breaking through the barbed wire fence along the territory’s border using tractors. This account of how the attack was carried out could not be independently verified. In retrospect, some warning signs that Israel missed may now be more apparent. In September, Israeli intelligence officials told The New York Times that they had intelligence suggesting Mr. Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, had ordered a wide campaign against Israel including targeting its citizens abroad, conducting sabotage inside its borders, and smuggling sophisticated weapons to the Palestinians to ignite a civil war in the West Bank. That was in retaliation for shadow war operations conducted by Israel in Iran, they said. It was not the only talk of broad action. In various meetings of Iran’s proxy militias, several attendees said, the emphasis from leaders was that it was time to take advantage of Israel’s seething internal divisions over the judicial overhaul pushed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right coalition. In the meeting Mr. Nasrallah held in March, he told militants to prepare for a war on a scale that would mark a turning point in the decades-long Arab-Israeli conflict (though it is unclear whether he had last week’s attack in mind). Similarly, in audio reviewed by The Times of an April discussion among members of the Revolutionary Guards, including those involved with proxies in the region, a speaker said, “The message that is being communicated from Iran these days to the resistance is that we showcase a military maneuver to make the Zionist regime understand it is surrounded from every side.” Even before the Hamas attack, some Israeli intelligence officials said that in hindsight, they regretted their support for Israeli targeted killings in Iran and operations to sabotage its nuclear and military facilities, because they had not been a significant deterrent to either Iran’s nuclear program or its regional activities. In fact, they had put Iran and Israel on a path of direct confrontation, one of the officials said. On Oct. 3, four days before Hamas launched its attack on southern Israel, Mr. Khamenei’s official account in Farsi posted a message on X, formerly known as Twitter, that said: “Israel will be gone.” The planners of the terror attack on Israel most certainly knew that it carried the risk of igniting a wider regional war. But the parties have long wanted to avenge an accumulation of grievances — from Israeli airstrikes on Gaza and Syria, to the long blockade of Gaza, to the covert war against Iran — amid a long-held collective determination to destroy Israel. They may also have hoped to force Israel into major concessions, like lifting the blockade or keeping Israeli forces from entering the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem’s Old City — one of Islam’s holiest sites. Hamas named its operation against Israel “The Aqsa Flood.” Hwaida Saad contributed reporting from Beirut. Farnaz Fassihi is a reporter for The New York Times based in New York. Previously she was a senior writer and war correspondent for the Wall Street Journal for 17 years based in the Middle East. More about Farnaz Fassihi Ronen Bergman is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, based in Tel Aviv. His latest book is “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations,” published by Random House. More about Ronen Bergman A ground war with Iran seems inevitable now. |
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Capitalism: God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor.
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Originally Posted By cXpSRi3x: Anyone want to speculate what's taking Israel so long to go into Gaza? You would think living next to a neighbor you're 24/7 at war with, you would have plans for a full-scale ground operation ready to go at a moments notice. View Quote I wonder if they are seeing so much response (in the form of movements, organization, positioning, etc) to the anticipation of the invasion that they are happy with bombing and surveilling until they have as much information as possible. Almost like using motion in football to help identify the defense. Also, I'd assume it takes a while to get a big number of people organized... |
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This commentary provides an excellent facts-based review of the centuries old history of Israel, as well as ethnic cleansing performed after 1948 against jews and christians, as well as other non-muslim minorities present in Arab and muslim countries.
Free Palestine? No thanks! (The Israeli perspective you’ve probably never heard.) |
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