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Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:07:12 PM EST
[#1]
Tucker Carlson Talks War With Iran


Sobering.  Disturbing.  

Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:07:34 PM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By odiedodi:
I know, but making them poorer and more miserable probably won't help the matter. I'm just having trouble understanding Israel's long term plan, post war (if they even have one). Understandably, they don't really have any good options.
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Originally Posted By odiedodi:
Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy:


Their charter is based around "all jews must die", how much more radicalized could they be?
I know, but making them poorer and more miserable probably won't help the matter. I'm just having trouble understanding Israel's long term plan, post war (if they even have one). Understandably, they don't really have any good options.


They have options, no one else wants to entertain them, push them into an actual Muslim country, make them their problem, and Israel take their land back

The problem with palis is Muslims don't want them either
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:10:37 PM EST
[#3]
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Originally Posted By macro:
Ive said for decades....and since early in this thread....Israel needs to eventually fight its own battles...the US cant be the safety net forever. If this were a conventional conflict I wouldn't even be following this thread. In this case, Israel was attacked by savages who have no regard for civility. Thats a line for me, and at least in my opinion, that justifies US support. But...all that said...our response to Iran needs to stand alone as it isn't connected to Israel. We are a fucking superpower and have what is arguably the most elite fighting force on the planet. Who the fuck is Iran to make threats against us? Fuck Iran. A real president would call their leader and tell them straight, if they fire a fucking bottle rocket in our general direction we will turn Tehran into a fucking glass sculpture.

I am sick and fucking tired of rhetoric from tribal leaders who haven't led their followers out of the darks ages. It is well beyond time to smack the shit out of Iran. If they attack us in any way, the response needs to be overwhelming and without any mercy.
View Quote

You and I originate from the same tribe.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:13:14 PM EST
[#4]
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Originally Posted By Ascendent:

You and I originate from the same tribe.
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Originally Posted By Ascendent:
Originally Posted By macro:
Ive said for decades....and since early in this thread....Israel needs to eventually fight its own battles...the US cant be the safety net forever. If this were a conventional conflict I wouldn't even be following this thread. In this case, Israel was attacked by savages who have no regard for civility. Thats a line for me, and at least in my opinion, that justifies US support. But...all that said...our response to Iran needs to stand alone as it isn't connected to Israel. We are a fucking superpower and have what is arguably the most elite fighting force on the planet. Who the fuck is Iran to make threats against us? Fuck Iran. A real president would call their leader and tell them straight, if they fire a fucking bottle rocket in our general direction we will turn Tehran into a fucking glass sculpture.

I am sick and fucking tired of rhetoric from tribal leaders who haven't led their followers out of the darks ages. It is well beyond time to smack the shit out of Iran. If they attack us in any way, the response needs to be overwhelming and without any mercy.

You and I originate from the same tribe.



The US should not be involved in Ukraine.  The US should not be involved in Israel.  

The US Navy should be anchored in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of California and should be shelling the area immediately south of the US border.  The Army and Marine Corps should be on the border.  The Air Force should be conducting recon and gun runs on the border.

We have problems at home that need addressing first.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:13:41 PM EST
[#5]
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Originally Posted By st0newall:
whilst the world is wondering what is going on in gaza and hamas sits in their tunnels this is what is coming for them....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/79ZxTL7NXaM/hqdefault.jpg
View Quote



What is that?  It looks tall.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:15:47 PM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:



Dude spent part of his first and good chunk of his second term working that Iran deal with the portions of the IC that seem to have this Shia/Iran love.  A lot of IC resources including FISA warrants and wiretaps were used to spy on Israeli/Jewish targets and their supporters within the US to get that nuclear deal done.  It caused stress on the Israeli/US relations and prior to Obama's departure we were planting the seeds in Israel of the just prior to this terrorist attack "color revolution" against Netanyahu with some of Israel's elites including their military and IC.  It didn't make the news all that much but the riots and violence happening was reminiscent of our happy 2020 color revolution.

On top of that it caused a pretty good split with the Saudis and MBS just cleaned house and now he's hanging out with Russia and letting China broker deals with Iran before the US can step in.  He was a monumental failure in just about everything to do with foreign policy and his staff wonks and those directing them are even worse.
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Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Originally Posted By AZNetEng:
Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Originally Posted By cyclone:
Originally Posted By Rebel31:
NYT

The Biden administration is concerned that Israel lacks achievable military objectives in Gaza, and that the Israel Defense Forces are not yet ready to launch a ground invasion with a plan that can work, senior administration officials said.

In phone conversations with his Israeli counterpart, Yoav Gallant, Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III has stressed the need for careful consideration of how Israeli forces might conduct a ground invasion of Gaza, where Hamas maintains intricate tunnel networks under densely populated areas.

Biden administration officials insisted that the United States had not told Israel what to do and still supported the ground invasion. But the Pentagon has sent a three-star Marine, Lt. Gen. James Glynn, along with other officers to help the Israelis with the challenges of fighting an urban war.

A Pentagon official said on Monday that the deployment of General Glynn, reported earlier by Axios, did not mean the Pentagon was making decisions for Israel. General Glynn, the official said, would not be on the ground in Israel if an incursion into Gaza begins.

Israeli officials in Washington did not immediately respond to requests for comment. But on Sunday, a diplomat from the Israeli Embassy denied that the U.S. government was advising the Israelis to delay the ground invasion. "The U.S. is not pressing Israel in regards to the ground operation," the diplomat said.

Reactions to the Conflict in the U.S.
Jewish Americans: For many American Jews, there have been too many emotions to process. Young people spoke of fear, shock, solidarity and helplessness, while some progressives said they were feeling abandoned by their left-wing allies.
Palestinian Americans: Palestinians in the United States are dismayed by the violence, but some said that politicians and news outlets were overlooking historical context.
In New York: Tensions are high in Muslim and Jewish communities around New York City, with impassioned protests and rallies on both sides drawing thousands.
In his conversations with Mr. Gallant, Mr. Austin has described the hard-fought campaign to clear the Iraqi city of Mosul of Islamic State fighters in 2016 and 2017. At the time, Mr. Austin was the head of United States Central Command, and American troops were backing their Kurdish and Iraqi counterparts in the fight.

"The first thing that everyone should know, and I think everyone does know, is that urban combat is extremely difficult," Mr. Austin told ABC News's "This Week" on Sunday.

He said that he had "encouraged" Mr. Gallant to "conduct their operations in accordance with the law of war." American officials have become increasingly concerned that a ground invasion in Gaza could lead to a huge loss of civilian lives.

He was on the phone again with Mr. Gallant on Monday, Pentagon officials said, emphasizing "the importance of civilian protection." In an emailed statement, Brig. Gen. Patrick S. Ryder, the Pentagon press secretary, said that the two men also discussed American security assistance to Israel.

But the administration is also concerned, the officials said, that the Israel Defense Forces do not yet have a clear military pathway to achieve Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's goal of eradicating Hamas. In conversations with Israeli officials since the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7, American officials said they have not yet seen an achievable plan of action.

President Biden has alluded to that publicly. During his speech in Tel Aviv last week, he warned that Israel would need "clarity about the objectives and an honest assessment about whether the path you're on will achieve those objectives."

American officials said that the Israel must decide whether, for instance, to try to take out Hamas by using surgical airstrikes combined with targeted raids by special operations troops   as American warplanes and Iraqi and Kurdish troops did in Mosul   or to roll into Gaza with tanks and infantry, as American Marines and soldiers, along with Iraqi and British forces, did in Falluja in 2004.

Both tactics will result in heavy losses, U.S. officials said, but a ground operation could be far bloodier, for troops and civilians. At the Pentagon, many officials believe that the Mosul and Raqqa clearing operations in Iraq more than a decade after Falluja are a better model for urban warfare.

"One of the things we've learned is how to account for civilians in the battle space, and they are a part of the battle space, and we, in accordance of the law of war, we've got to do what's necessary to protect those civilians," Mr. Austin said on Sunday.

But both Mosul and Raqqa resulted in significant civilian casualties. While such figures can vary widely, The Associated Press put the number of civilians killed during the effort to rid Mosul of Islamic State fighters at between 9,000 and 11,000. And the Islamic State had only two years to prepare defenses in Mosul, argued Michael Knights, a fellow with The Washington Institute.

"Hamas has had 15 years to prepare a dense 'defense in depth' that integrates subterranean, ground-level and aboveground fortifications, communication tunnels, emplacements and fighting positions," Mr. Knights wrote in an analysis earlier this month, "as well as potential minefields, improvised explosive devices, explosively formed penetrator anti-armor mines and buildings rigged as explosive booby traps."

Senator Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat who heads the Armed Services Committee, called on Israel on Monday to delay a ground invasion of Gaza to buy time for hostage negotiations, allow more humanitarian aid to reach Palestinians civilians and give Israeli commanders more opportunity to fine-tune their urban-combat planning.

"From an operational standpoint, this is very complicated, and the more intelligence you gather and your troops can take into urban combat, the better," Mr. Reed said by phone from Cairo, where he and other senators were wrapping up a trip to Saudi Arabia, Israel and Egypt. "A little extra time might be helpful. There are so many factors. Rushing into this probably is not the best approach."

The Biden administration has given the same advice to Israel. Like U.S. officials, Mr. Reed said he also still supports the ground invasion to destroy Hamas. But he warned that a block-by-block urban fight in Gaza would be "a long-term effort," noting that it took the Iraqi army, assisted by the United States, nine months to rout the Islamic State from Mosul.

Michael Crowley contributed reporting from Washington.



We tend to interfere and screw everything up


Obama's first two terms were indeed him distancing the US/Israel (along with Saudi Arabia) relationship and in term courting Iran.  

At this point anything Obama is saying is designed to make Israel doing what they should be doing more difficult.

I miss the days when former presidents kept their mouths shut.



Dude spent part of his first and good chunk of his second term working that Iran deal with the portions of the IC that seem to have this Shia/Iran love.  A lot of IC resources including FISA warrants and wiretaps were used to spy on Israeli/Jewish targets and their supporters within the US to get that nuclear deal done.  It caused stress on the Israeli/US relations and prior to Obama's departure we were planting the seeds in Israel of the just prior to this terrorist attack "color revolution" against Netanyahu with some of Israel's elites including their military and IC.  It didn't make the news all that much but the riots and violence happening was reminiscent of our happy 2020 color revolution.

On top of that it caused a pretty good split with the Saudis and MBS just cleaned house and now he's hanging out with Russia and letting China broker deals with Iran before the US can step in.  He was a monumental failure in just about everything to do with foreign policy and his staff wonks and those directing them are even worse.


Every bit of that is true. I just tire of hearing him. He planted the seeds of this bullshit. He needs to go the fuck away.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:17:28 PM EST
[#7]
More short bursts of MG fire on feed.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:17:32 PM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tucansam:



What is that?  It looks tall.
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Originally Posted By tucansam:
Originally Posted By st0newall:
whilst the world is wondering what is going on in gaza and hamas sits in their tunnels this is what is coming for them....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/79ZxTL7NXaM/hqdefault.jpg



What is that?  It looks tall.



Tunnel boring machine
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:17:49 PM EST
[#9]
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Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy:


Their charter is based around "all jews must die", how much more radicalized could they be?
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Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy:
Originally Posted By odiedodi:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
SHUT UP BARRY.

To be honest, some of what he said is true. The way they're (Israel) talking, they plan to annex an amount of Gaza and leave them with less land. Even if they fully dismantle Hamas now, I am not particularly optimistic that Palestinians are going to just be content with being shoehorned into an even smaller geographic area. It's not America's fight so I'm not necessarily saying they shouldn't do so, just that I can see that plan resulting in further radicalization down the road. I guess we'll see what happens though.


Their charter is based around "all jews must die", how much more radicalized could they be?


They might get radicalized as far as suicide bombings! We just have to make Israel treat them better and they'll become modern people who just want peace!

Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:18:35 PM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tucansam:



What is that?  It looks tall.
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Originally Posted By tucansam:
Originally Posted By st0newall:
whilst the world is wondering what is going on in gaza and hamas sits in their tunnels this is what is coming for them....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/79ZxTL7NXaM/hqdefault.jpg



What is that?  It looks tall.


Big Bertha.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:19:03 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tucansam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOtspoeBSkc

Sobering.  Disturbing.  

View Quote


And the laughing winner will be the Russians since they have oil and gas and can deliver. Perfect setup!
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:20:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: st0newall] [#12]
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Originally Posted By tucansam:



What is that?  It looks tall.
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Originally Posted By tucansam:
Originally Posted By st0newall:
whilst the world is wondering what is going on in gaza and hamas sits in their tunnels this is what is coming for them....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/79ZxTL7NXaM/hqdefault.jpg



What is that?  It looks tall.

tunnel boring machine. would be an interesting tactic. google tunnel boring machine for some examples. they could go down and bore tunnels directly under gaza city. i mean hamas has its tunnels yes, but as an example in wwI both sides tunneled towards each other.

big bertha

Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:24:26 PM EST
[#13]
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Originally Posted By BM1455:
More short bursts of MG fire on feed.
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which feed?
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:25:36 PM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

Yall reminded me to check, and cg is discussing why they haven't gone in yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AplKa35pS68

So far she has been one of the more interesting commentators on the war.
View Quote


It's amazing that everything that the left touches turns to shit; in Israel, in Europe and here in America.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:26:19 PM EST
[#15]
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Funny, the UN didn't say a word about this launch site
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:28:21 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tucansam:



The US should not be involved in Ukraine.  The US should not be involved in Israel.  

The US Navy should be anchored in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of California and should be shelling the area immediately south of the US border.  The Army and Marine Corps should be on the border.  The Air Force should be conducting recon and gun runs on the border.

We have problems at home that need addressing first.
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Originally Posted By tucansam:
Originally Posted By Ascendent:
Originally Posted By macro:
Ive said for decades....and since early in this thread....Israel needs to eventually fight its own battles...the US cant be the safety net forever. If this were a conventional conflict I wouldn't even be following this thread. In this case, Israel was attacked by savages who have no regard for civility. Thats a line for me, and at least in my opinion, that justifies US support. But...all that said...our response to Iran needs to stand alone as it isn't connected to Israel. We are a fucking superpower and have what is arguably the most elite fighting force on the planet. Who the fuck is Iran to make threats against us? Fuck Iran. A real president would call their leader and tell them straight, if they fire a fucking bottle rocket in our general direction we will turn Tehran into a fucking glass sculpture.

I am sick and fucking tired of rhetoric from tribal leaders who haven't led their followers out of the darks ages. It is well beyond time to smack the shit out of Iran. If they attack us in any way, the response needs to be overwhelming and without any mercy.

You and I originate from the same tribe.



The US should not be involved in Ukraine.  The US should not be involved in Israel.  

The US Navy should be anchored in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of California and should be shelling the area immediately south of the US border.  The Army and Marine Corps should be on the border.  The Air Force should be conducting recon and gun runs on the border.

We have problems at home that need addressing first.

here's the issue (i think). israel is gonna go hard in gaza. they expect unprecedented responses from multiple groups, especially iran. the izzies have told bidet that if things go south with israel, they will use nukes on iran (samson option). to deal with this issue, bidet has told israel that they will step in with conventional force before it gets to that point. its why bidet went to israel.. to talk about israels nuclear options
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:29:46 PM EST
[#17]
This one.  Not hearing at the moment now though.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedZgZtQbsQ
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:30:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: FlashMan-7k] [#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By macro:
Realistically, what is Israels end game? What does success look like here? And what is realistic?...
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Random thought:

In pure brute law of the jungle terms ...

Kill all the people that came across the border and killed israelis and others and everyone directly responsible for sending them, so those individual people can't do it again.

Than put up a border that cannot be breached in the same way.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:33:43 PM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL:


My man. They don't want any solution that includes live Jews on Muslim soil.  
Free Palestine means Judenrein Palestine.
View Quote

In the original plan of 1948 the Brits proposed Jews and Palestinians both live in Israel but separated by a border.  The Jews went along with it and Palestinians would not.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:34:29 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dashender:


Well you're a special kind of morally disoriented now aren't you?
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Thought the same
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:35:16 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tucansam:



The US should not be involved in Ukraine.  The US should not be involved in Israel.  

The US Navy should be anchored in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of California and should be shelling the area immediately south of the US border.  The Army and Marine Corps should be on the border.  The Air Force should be conducting recon and gun runs on the border.

We have problems at home that need addressing first.
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Originally Posted By tucansam:
Originally Posted By Ascendent:
Originally Posted By macro:
Ive said for decades....and since early in this thread....Israel needs to eventually fight its own battles...the US cant be the safety net forever. If this were a conventional conflict I wouldn't even be following this thread. In this case, Israel was attacked by savages who have no regard for civility. Thats a line for me, and at least in my opinion, that justifies US support. But...all that said...our response to Iran needs to stand alone as it isn't connected to Israel. We are a fucking superpower and have what is arguably the most elite fighting force on the planet. Who the fuck is Iran to make threats against us? Fuck Iran. A real president would call their leader and tell them straight, if they fire a fucking bottle rocket in our general direction we will turn Tehran into a fucking glass sculpture.

I am sick and fucking tired of rhetoric from tribal leaders who haven't led their followers out of the darks ages. It is well beyond time to smack the shit out of Iran. If they attack us in any way, the response needs to be overwhelming and without any mercy.

You and I originate from the same tribe.



The US should not be involved in Ukraine.  The US should not be involved in Israel.  

The US Navy should be anchored in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of California and should be shelling the area immediately south of the US border.  The Army and Marine Corps should be on the border.  The Air Force should be conducting recon and gun runs on the border.

We have problems at home that need addressing first.

We have citizens who are hostages that hamas took. Double digits worth last I saw.

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Saturday_comes_Sunday
After Saturday comes Sunday (Arabic: min sallaf es-sabt lāqā el-ḥadd qiddāmūh, lit. 'When Saturday is gone, one will find Sunday') is a traditional Middle Eastern proverb.[citation needed] It has been documented in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon, albeit in the form sállẹf ẹs-sábt bẹtlâqi l-ḥádd qẹddâmẹk (lit. 'Loan Saturday [out], and you will find Sunday before you').[1][2] According to some journalist accounts, the proverb is prominent among the Maronites with the meaning that the Muslims will do away with the Christians after they have dealt with the Jews, implying the pending elimination or expulsion of minorities living in the Muslim world.[3][4] Israeli folklorist Shimon Khayyat has interpreted it as a threatening message, stating: "Since the Jews are now persecuted, it is as inevitable that the Christians' turn will come next as it is Sunday that will follow Saturday".[5][6] Recent uses of the proverb have been attributed to Arab Christians expressing a fear that they might soon be ostracized on a scale akin to that which was seen during the Jewish exodus from Muslim-majority countries. It is often reported to be used by Muslim fundamentalists as a slogan to intimidate local Christian communities.[5][7][6]


https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/10/first-the-saturday-people-then-the-sunday-people-2/

After little satan (israel) the great satan (usa) is next.

This is law of the jungle level stuff.

We should have doable realistic goals ... IMO: get our people out, and than see to it that israel can clean house. Not more, not less.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:36:45 PM EST
[#22]
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Originally Posted By Ozgur:


It's amazing that everything that the left touches turns to     ; in Israel, in Europe and here in America.
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Originally Posted By Ozgur:
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

Yall reminded me to check, and cg is discussing why they haven't gone in yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AplKa35pS68

So far she has been one of the more interesting commentators on the war.


It's amazing that everything that the left touches turns to     ; in Israel, in Europe and here in America.

The left flows with the bad desires and impulses of human nature. It does not constrain them.  

Anyone that's been a parent will know how badly that fails.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:38:24 PM EST
[#23]
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Originally Posted By tnwalker10:

In the original plan of 1948 the Brits proposed Jews and Palestinians both live in Israel but separated by a border.  The Jews went along with it and Palestinians would not.
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Originally Posted By tnwalker10:
Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL:


My man. They don't want any solution that includes live Jews on Muslim soil.  
Free Palestine means Judenrein Palestine.

In the original plan of 1948 the Brits proposed Jews and Palestinians both live in Israel but separated by a border.  The Jews went along with it and Palestinians would not.

I believe the palestinians rejected the same thing once or twice more after that.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:38:58 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:


Random thought:

In pure brute law of the jungle terms ...

Kill all the people that came across the border and killed israelis and others and everyone directly responsible for sending them, so those individual people cant' do it again.

Than put up a border that cannot be breached in the same way.
View Quote

How would that prevent future conflict based on the exact same underlying issue? Sounds like it just kicks the can down the road a few years. In complete transparency, I don't think that its possible to change the fundamental ideology of a society through diplomacy. Israel is never going to convince its neighbors that the have earned the land they exist on. In a very ironic way, the muslim world is passing judgement on the Israelis in the way that the Pharisees passed judgment on Jesus.

Jesus took his faith to the grave. Im really hoping that the Israelis don't do the same.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:40:29 PM EST
[#25]
From Amir Tsarfati

According to security sources, the terrorist organization is threatening the Palestinian public not to
evacuate south, and has gathered 30,000 residents around the “Shifa” hospital. Israel estimates that
the main headquarters and senior officials of the Nazi organization are hidden under the hospital.

--

Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:41:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: Rebel31] [#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tnwalker10:

In the original plan of 1948 the Brits proposed Jews and Palestinians both live in Israel but separated by a border.  The Jews went along with it and Palestinians would not.
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Originally Posted By tnwalker10:
Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL:


My man. They don't want any solution that includes live Jews on Muslim soil.  
Free Palestine means Judenrein Palestine.

In the original plan of 1948 the Brits proposed Jews and Palestinians both live in Israel but separated by a border.  The Jews went along with it and Palestinians would not.

The two-state solution is a dead end and always has been because it's never been something the muslims have ever wanted.

They've had multiple chances and rejected it every time.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:41:22 PM EST
[#27]
Special Middle East Update: The War in Israel

Special Middle East Update: The War in Israel | Oct. 23, 2023
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:42:46 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fullmetaledges:
When assholes collide. Fuck hamas and they deserve to be wiped out, unfortunately this isn’t realistic. Fuck Israel for trying to start WW3 over their wants to kill everyone in the region. Both sides increasingly just fuck with one another constantly. It’s obviously more complicated than that, but seriously fuck them both.
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Maybe you are seeing something different than the rest of us.  We saw Hamas attack Israel not the other way around.  They started WW3, if that is what this leads to, not Israel.

If the cartels start lobing thousands of rockets into the US and then capture and kill thousands of our citizens, it will be the fault of the cartels if that leads to us wiping them off the face of the Earth.  It won't be the fault of the US.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:42:53 PM EST
[#29]
Help me out here....

We keep hearing Iran backed militia or Iran backed drones doing something. If a person puts out a hit on someone else, the person putting out the hit is charged with murder. The one completing it gets a lesser charge.

So is the rules of war different? Have others to do your killing like Iran, but we do nothing to them? What gives?
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:43:02 PM EST
[#30]
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Originally Posted By sierra-def:

while Biden sits on the beach contemplating who shit his pants.
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I laughed way too hard at that. Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:46:02 PM EST
[#31]
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Originally Posted By cyclone:

Imagine that...........
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Captured weapons yo.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:47:43 PM EST
[#32]
A 2 state solution isn't in the cards. The Palis would rather see ISR die than for the Palis to prosper. Said another way, they hate the Jews more than they love their children. The 2 state solution died at Camp David with Clinton and Arafat.

And if you waved a magic want, and made Gaza a nation, it's still a failure. The economy doesn't suddenly start working. There are no resources to speak of. The population doesn't gain skills. Hamas or Islamic Jihad is the government, and those guys aren't exactly your good civics boys. Like Afghanistan, it's hopeless. Hard for the western mind to understand that.

It's an open air prison not exclusively because Israel has a closed border with them, but every Arab country does. They all know the people are bad news, and they don't want them any more than ISR does.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:48:47 PM EST
[#33]
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Originally Posted By yodude:
Help me out here....

We keep hearing Iran backed militia or Iran backed drones doing something. If a person puts out a hit on someone else, the person putting out the hit is charged with murder. The one completing it gets a lesser charge.

So is the rules of war different? Have others to do your killing like Iran, but we do nothing to them? What gives?
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The same way US munitions have killed thousands of Russians in Ukraine.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:50:36 PM EST
[#34]
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Originally Posted By yodude:
Help me out here....

We keep hearing Iran backed militia or Iran backed drones doing something. If a person puts out a hit on someone else, the person putting out the hit is charged with murder. The one completing it gets a lesser charge.

So is the rules of war different? Have others to do your killing like Iran, but we do nothing to them? What gives?
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Iran could attack us directly and the administration and their media lapdogs will go out of their way to play it down and not say "Iran did it". The US Government is compromised, taken over by muslims, communists, and sympathizers.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:50:40 PM EST
[#35]
I just wonder how many in this wonderful administration is pro Hamas.





Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:50:51 PM EST
[#36]
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Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy:


They have options, no one else wants to entertain them, push them into an actual Muslim country, make them their problem, and Israel take their land back

The problem with palis is Muslims don't want them either
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Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy:
Originally Posted By odiedodi:
Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy:


Their charter is based around "all jews must die", how much more radicalized could they be?
I know, but making them poorer and more miserable probably won't help the matter. I'm just having trouble understanding Israel's long term plan, post war (if they even have one). Understandably, they don't really have any good options.


They have options, no one else wants to entertain them, push them into an actual Muslim country, make them their problem, and Israel take their land back

The problem with palis is Muslims don't want them either


While slightly true you have to realize that many of these “moderate” Muslim countries have ulterior motives and also hate Jews. They can’t appear crazed but they still hate them and having the Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad groups all around Israel as a thorn in their sides is something they would like to continue.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:50:56 PM EST
[#37]
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:


Random thought:

In pure brute law of the jungle terms ...

Kill all the people that came across the border and killed israelis and others and everyone directly responsible for sending them, so those individual people can't do it again.

Than put up a border that cannot be breached in the same way.
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By macro:
Realistically, what is Israels end game? What does success look like here? And what is realistic?...


Random thought:

In pure brute law of the jungle terms ...

Kill all the people that came across the border and killed israelis and others and everyone directly responsible for sending them, so those individual people can't do it again.

Than put up a border that cannot be breached in the same way.

Then it will happen again.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:51:35 PM EST
[#38]
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Originally Posted By PeepEater:

The same way US munitions have killed thousands of Russians in Ukraine.
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Originally Posted By PeepEater:
Originally Posted By yodude:
Help me out here....

We keep hearing Iran backed militia or Iran backed drones doing something. If a person puts out a hit on someone else, the person putting out the hit is charged with murder. The one completing it gets a lesser charge.

So is the rules of war different? Have others to do your killing like Iran, but we do nothing to them? What gives?

The same way US munitions have killed thousands of Russians in Ukraine.

One is a country defending itself and one is a terrorist organization.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:52:57 PM EST
[#39]
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Originally Posted By BM1455:
More short bursts of MG fire on feed.
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could be that one of the feeds is located near the IDF firing range.  by Zikim beach.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:53:12 PM EST
[#40]
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:55:13 PM EST
[#41]
Top Biden Spokesman John Kirby Does Not Rule Out "A U.S. War Against Iran"
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:55:35 PM EST
[#42]
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:

We have citizens who are hostages that hamas took. Double digits worth last I saw.

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Saturday_comes_Sunday
After Saturday comes Sunday (Arabic: min sallaf es-sabt lāqā el-ḥadd qiddāmūh, lit. 'When Saturday is gone, one will find Sunday') is a traditional Middle Eastern proverb.[citation needed] It has been documented in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon, albeit in the form sállẹf ẹs-sábt bẹtlâqi l-ḥádd qẹddâmẹk (lit. 'Loan Saturday [out], and you will find Sunday before you').[1][2] According to some journalist accounts, the proverb is prominent among the Maronites with the meaning that the Muslims will do away with the Christians after they have dealt with the Jews, implying the pending elimination or expulsion of minorities living in the Muslim world.[3][4] Israeli folklorist Shimon Khayyat has interpreted it as a threatening message, stating: "Since the Jews are now persecuted, it is as inevitable that the Christians' turn will come next as it is Sunday that will follow Saturday".[5][6] Recent uses of the proverb have been attributed to Arab Christians expressing a fear that they might soon be ostracized on a scale akin to that which was seen during the Jewish exodus from Muslim-majority countries. It is often reported to be used by Muslim fundamentalists as a slogan to intimidate local Christian communities.[5][7][6]


https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/10/first-the-saturday-people-then-the-sunday-people-2/

After little satan (israel) the great satan (usa) is next.

This is law of the jungle level stuff.

We should have doable realistic goals ... IMO: get our people out, and than see to it that israel can clean house. Not more, not less.
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:
Originally Posted By tucansam:
Originally Posted By Ascendent:
Originally Posted By macro:
Ive said for decades....and since early in this thread....Israel needs to eventually fight its own battles...the US cant be the safety net forever. If this were a conventional conflict I wouldn't even be following this thread. In this case, Israel was attacked by savages who have no regard for civility. Thats a line for me, and at least in my opinion, that justifies US support. But...all that said...our response to Iran needs to stand alone as it isn't connected to Israel. We are a fucking superpower and have what is arguably the most elite fighting force on the planet. Who the fuck is Iran to make threats against us? Fuck Iran. A real president would call their leader and tell them straight, if they fire a fucking bottle rocket in our general direction we will turn Tehran into a fucking glass sculpture.

I am sick and fucking tired of rhetoric from tribal leaders who haven't led their followers out of the darks ages. It is well beyond time to smack the shit out of Iran. If they attack us in any way, the response needs to be overwhelming and without any mercy.

You and I originate from the same tribe.



The US should not be involved in Ukraine.  The US should not be involved in Israel.  

The US Navy should be anchored in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of California and should be shelling the area immediately south of the US border.  The Army and Marine Corps should be on the border.  The Air Force should be conducting recon and gun runs on the border.

We have problems at home that need addressing first.

We have citizens who are hostages that hamas took. Double digits worth last I saw.

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Saturday_comes_Sunday
After Saturday comes Sunday (Arabic: min sallaf es-sabt lāqā el-ḥadd qiddāmūh, lit. 'When Saturday is gone, one will find Sunday') is a traditional Middle Eastern proverb.[citation needed] It has been documented in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon, albeit in the form sállẹf ẹs-sábt bẹtlâqi l-ḥádd qẹddâmẹk (lit. 'Loan Saturday [out], and you will find Sunday before you').[1][2] According to some journalist accounts, the proverb is prominent among the Maronites with the meaning that the Muslims will do away with the Christians after they have dealt with the Jews, implying the pending elimination or expulsion of minorities living in the Muslim world.[3][4] Israeli folklorist Shimon Khayyat has interpreted it as a threatening message, stating: "Since the Jews are now persecuted, it is as inevitable that the Christians' turn will come next as it is Sunday that will follow Saturday".[5][6] Recent uses of the proverb have been attributed to Arab Christians expressing a fear that they might soon be ostracized on a scale akin to that which was seen during the Jewish exodus from Muslim-majority countries. It is often reported to be used by Muslim fundamentalists as a slogan to intimidate local Christian communities.[5][7][6]


https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/10/first-the-saturday-people-then-the-sunday-people-2/

After little satan (israel) the great satan (usa) is next.

This is law of the jungle level stuff.

We should have doable realistic goals ... IMO: get our people out, and than see to it that israel can clean house. Not more, not less.


Some people here have the thought process of a child then pat the ones that agree with them on the back as if enlightened.

When problems get ignored by only one party involved it ends up in deep shit.

Our border is one example. Kicking the can down the road on someone threatening you while shopping for nukes is another.

Dems and these people are the same.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:55:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: NY12ga] [#43]
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Originally Posted By DouglasQuaid:
Much of the success the Arabs had against Israel in the past was done with the element of surprise.  That is not the case now.  Israel is heavily mobilized and on high alert.  All of those fighters Hezollah has isn't that helpful if they're going to be sent against prepared positions covered by artillery and airpower.  They can lob some rockets and artillery, but they'll just get bombed 10x over.  And if it gets serious enough, US naval forces will join in.  The best Hezbollah can do if rattle the saber and tie down some troops on the border.

The biggest enemy Israel has now is world opinion.  Sadly, too many media outlets are broadcasting those tearjerker stories of civilians suffering in Gaza.  The same civilians that Hamas uses as human shields that is.  Israel should jam all communications out of Gaza so the news reporters can't report their nonsense.
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A large portion of the October 7 attackers WERE civilians. And they didn’t do any roof knocks or give Israeli civilians the chance to not be in their crosshairs. If you’re a civilian participating and/or are a soldier who isn’t in uniform international law is quite clear on your status as a combatant- and the consequences thereof. They sure as hell don’t get to claim victimhood or moral high ground
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:57:12 PM EST
[#44]
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Originally Posted By tucansam:



We have problems at home that need addressing first.
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This is how I know your opinion isnt serious.  The world does not stop.  This is a gigantic country with hundreds of millions of people and a govt large enough to deal wiith basically everything that it WANTS to.  There is no 'addressing MY problem first' there is only dealing with everything that needs dealing with. Period.

Israel-Hamas is intertwined with all other events that Russia, Iran, and China have a hand in. That includes illegal immigration and the fentanyl epidemic.  So please, if youre going to make arguments for isolationism please come up with something better than 'but we have problems HERE.'

Fact of the matter is the US pulling back from teh world has helped cause this bullshit.  Along with an incompetent diplomatic corps and executive we are in a political crisis of competence.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:57:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis] [#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By yodude:
Help me out here....

We keep hearing Iran backed militia or Iran backed drones doing something. If a person puts out a hit on someone else, the person putting out the hit is charged with murder. The one completing it gets a lesser charge.

So is the rules of war different? Have others to do your killing like Iran, but we do nothing to them? What gives?
View Quote


Proxy wars should only work for nuke armed countries.

Unless Iran has a nuke available to use Israel and us (they have threatened the US with “annihilation”) are fools for letting it continue.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:57:48 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:


While slightly true you have to realize that many of these “moderate” Muslim countries have ulterior motives and also hate Jews. They can’t appear crazed but they still hate them and having the Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad groups all around Israel as a thorn in their sides is something they would like to continue.
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Egypt and Jordan don't want Hama or Hezbollah. Their feelings on what Hamas does to Israel might be one thing, but their feelings toward Hamas being in their country is something else.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:58:17 PM EST
[#47]
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Originally Posted By realwar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhwSN_Zz--o
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Kirby is worse than useless. He actively hampers and prevents the US government from putting out a coherent plain language response.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:58:35 PM EST
[#48]
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Originally Posted By realwar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhwSN_Zz--o
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Two douchebags.


Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:59:37 PM EST
[#49]
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Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k:



600.
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not so sure that's true, when their avowed purpose in life is to kill all Jews.
Link Posted: 10/23/2023 8:59:46 PM EST
[#50]
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Originally Posted By Ozgur:

Maybe you are seeing something different than the rest of us.  We saw Hamas attack Israel not the other way around.  They started WW3, if that is what this leads to, not Israel.

If the cartels start lobing thousands of rockets into the US and then capture and kill thousands of our citizens, it will be the fault of the cartels if that leads to us wiping them off the face of the Earth.  It won't be the fault of the US.
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Fair enough, but would you kill everyone in Mexico to do it? I also agree that at some point they have to handle their own problems. Our relationship with Israel is quite one sided.
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