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Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:13:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:14:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:15:15 PM EDT
[#3]
To be fair, the police have stood by and watched someone in distress die because 1) we thought he was faking 2) we didn't know that not breathing was a bad thing  and 3) we're not doctors.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:16:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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I am talking about the CO on the video only. I am not talking about the county or any other person. The problem with video cameras is it doesn't show what it doesn't show. That CO could very well have called a supervisor, medical or both. We don't know. Somebody is liable for sure. I am just unwilling to place the blame on the CO without more evidence than this video which does not document his actions after he left the cell area.
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The county will have the opportunity to show that they did take action during the trial.
I am talking about the CO on the video only. I am not talking about the county or any other person. The problem with video cameras is it doesn't show what it doesn't show. That CO could very well have called a supervisor, medical or both. We don't know. Somebody is liable for sure. I am just unwilling to place the blame on the CO without more evidence than this video which does not document his actions after he left the cell area.
All of that will come out as the music stops playing and everyone tries to find a chair.  Finding evidence that he didn't do anything is going to be rather tough since it's disproving a negative.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:18:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:19:16 PM EDT
[#6]
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@QCMGR

Screw? What were you convicted of? You good with people using the word Pig to describe police officers?
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Every screw I met was there because they couldn't be a police officer.
@QCMGR

Screw? What were you convicted of? You good with people using the word Pig to describe police officers?
Police Officer is an honorable profession.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:19:37 PM EDT
[#7]
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@QCMGR

Screw? What were you convicted of? You good with people using the word Pig to describe police officers?
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Every screw I met was there because they couldn't be a police officer.
@QCMGR

Screw? What were you convicted of? You good with people using the word Pig to describe police officers?
GG Liddy fan!
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:23:25 PM EDT
[#8]
I'd like to know more about the victim. The 'victim' and 'child porn' could be a 17 year old girlfriend who sent him nudes.

...

Benzodiazepine withdrawal is the deadliest drug withdrawal that exists, exceeding even that of alcohol.

If you take someone who's been on a moderate-to-high dose benzo med long term and put them through abrupt withdrawal, then risk of death is very high and  putting them through a horrifying nightmarish torture is 100% guaranteed as is some level of brain damage.

If you're on a benzo med(valium, xanax, ativan, klonopin, librium) then I'd consider getting off of it by talking to your doctor about it and reading about tapering plans and tapering down slowly over time as to how advised by your doctor.

Benzos should be outlawed for all but emergency and very short-term usage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

also, anyone using benzos and/or alcohol regularly and long-term should know this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hypnotic_withdrawal) cliffs: each withdrawal gets worse and worse until your brain and body is FUBAR'd or you die.

There are a great many people in jails, prisons, with criminals records, in mental institutions, and graves because of the dangerous effects of benzo medications.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:44:43 PM EDT
[#9]
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Me and it was very rewarding, much more so than being a cop.
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Who goes into a job field thinking, "I'm going to have to deal with the scum of the earth everyday for the next twenty years."
Me and it was very rewarding, much more so than being a cop.
Interesting. Honest question how was it more rewarding?  Even a cop, seeing the scum of the earth still interacts with decent people.
Your life was supervising people every day in a place they didn't want to be.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:45:31 PM EDT
[#10]
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Police Officer is an honorable profession.
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Every screw I met was there because they couldn't be a police officer.
@QCMGR

Screw? What were you convicted of? You good with people using the word Pig to describe police officers?
Police Officer is an honorable profession.
So is corrections.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 12:56:40 PM EDT
[#11]
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fify
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All of that will come out as the music stops playing and everyone tries to find a chair.  Finding evidence that he didn't do anything is going to be rather tough since it's disproving a negative.administration looks for a scapegoat in order to avoid the pending litigation
fify
Synonymous
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:43:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Call the medics.

Shrug if he dies after you activate emergency services.

Jailer needs jail time for wanton disregard of his charges health.  A prisoner is essentially your child. He neglected his duty.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:44:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:45:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:45:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:50:49 PM EDT
[#16]
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GG Liddy fan!
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Having a stroke?  Sorry you did time.  Hopefully the corrections officers were professional while you were confined.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:53:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:55:44 PM EDT
[#18]
They failed to do their jobs.  End of story.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:56:22 PM EDT
[#19]
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A few reasons. The biggest being the unsung heroes who fight and survive terrible attacks or who run to the rescue of others, or who save the lives of inmates and staff who would otherwise die. They never get mentioned in the news, or have a movie made about them. The only time they are mentioned is when they screw up or when Hollywood demonizes them. I have seen acts of heroism that rival any in war. Prisons have plenty of decent people. Sometimes even the crooks are decent. many years ago i was terribly injured and in danger of dying. A double murderer in his 17th year of incarceration ran over a mile to call for help. My agency, through individual voluntary employee donations has raised millions of dollars for Special Olympics. You will never see that in the paper. Then, sometimes you get to see or be a part of a real subhuman piece of shit get a big chunk of karma rammed right up his ass, or through his veins.

Then there is the comedy of the institutions. There is nowhere on earth funnier than a prison.

I could go on, but i think that suffices.
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Interesting. Honest question how was it more rewarding?  Even a cop, seeing the scum of the earth still interacts with decent people.
Your life was supervising people every day in a place they didn't want to be.
A few reasons. The biggest being the unsung heroes who fight and survive terrible attacks or who run to the rescue of others, or who save the lives of inmates and staff who would otherwise die. They never get mentioned in the news, or have a movie made about them. The only time they are mentioned is when they screw up or when Hollywood demonizes them. I have seen acts of heroism that rival any in war. Prisons have plenty of decent people. Sometimes even the crooks are decent. many years ago i was terribly injured and in danger of dying. A double murderer in his 17th year of incarceration ran over a mile to call for help. My agency, through individual voluntary employee donations has raised millions of dollars for Special Olympics. You will never see that in the paper. Then, sometimes you get to see or be a part of a real subhuman piece of shit get a big chunk of karma rammed right up his ass, or through his veins.

Then there is the comedy of the institutions. There is nowhere on earth funnier than a prison.

I could go on, but i think that suffices.
Interesting.  We may not always agree here, but I consider you and your vocation LE brothers.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:57:12 PM EDT
[#20]
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Once you're in custody. They're responsible for that person.
Doesn't matter what they did to get there.
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Don't do shit that gets you sent to jail!
Once you're in custody. They're responsible for that person.
Doesn't matter what they did to get there.
Yep.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 1:57:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:00:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:05:00 PM EDT
[#23]
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They're expecting a CO to have the same medical knowledge as an MD.
Got it.
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I think most people would expect a damned hasty call to that medical expert.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:07:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Who cares? Prison should be hell.

I don’t care one bit nor would I reprimand the guard.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:16:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:18:24 PM EDT
[#26]
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Who cares? Prison should be hell.

I don’t care one bit nor would I reprimand the guard.
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Even as much of a prick as I can be, I recognize not everybody doing prison time is an irredeemable scum bag.  
While they deserve to be in prison, not all inmates are in there for crimes causing bodily injury to others.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 2:44:55 PM EDT
[#27]
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Who cares? Prison should be hell.

I don’t care one bit nor would I reprimand the guard.
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What a surprising post from such a rational poster.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:13:15 PM EDT
[#28]
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I would be shocked if the jail didn't have a Doctor that made that decision, and if the inmate's Doctor did not know the jail's (apparent) policy.
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You can't expect people working in jails to be nurses and doctors. These addicts are having serious withdrawal reactions from very toxic chemicals and drugs and everyone wants to stick them in jail to get them off the streets.

You poison yourself and get arrested then you are responsible for your death.
He was like that because the staff abruptly discontinued one of his meds without informing his doctor.  He wasn't some junkie.
I would be shocked if the jail didn't have a Doctor that made that decision, and if the inmate's Doctor did not know the jail's (apparent) policy.
That would be very difficult since meds by fed law must be passed by licensed medical staff. If the nurse discontinued his meds without consulting medical authority, she is 100% liable.
As for the DO, two phrases come to mind, and the BIG one is Deliberate Indifference, then add Conditions of Confinement. Throw as little CRIPA, or Constitutional Rights for Incarcerated Persons Act, and you have a shit stew that is going to drown everyone involved in this incident.
As for what the inmate DID - I don't care.  It doesn't mean i don't care about the victims, or am an inmate lover or any crap like that - the cornerstone of corrections is Firm, Fair, and Consistent. The best way to accomplish that is to NOT look up who you are dealing with unless it's germane to the situation at hand. Some you can't help but know due to notoriety, but you work past it, because no matter what they did, we are charged with keeping them alive and unharmed until their sentence is over. There are many inmates that if they died I wouldn't shed a tear, (got a little hammered the night Manson went to Hell), but I will do everything within my lawful authority and power to keep them alive and kicking while in my care and custody.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:14:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:17:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:22:33 PM EDT
[#31]
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.... You do know a presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of our nation, and how it was created, correct?

You also do understand that not everyone who goes to jail has actually broken a law, and that many are simply suspected of it, right?

Furthermore, you also understand that a lot of people who go to jail have charges dropped right?
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I mean, if you bothered to read the article, the guy was already convicted and was in jail on a probation violation.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:24:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:27:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Local PD here in RI had to pay out 7 million for standing around a guy in custody not breathing and waiting for an ambulance.

This prisons insurance rates are going to skyrocket.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:28:21 PM EDT
[#34]
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something something "special relationship" something "duty to protect" something
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exactly.

Family will get a nice check, so will their lawyer.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 3:29:00 PM EDT
[#35]
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Still might be cheaper than the cost for jailing the guy 5-10yrs.

Saving some kid from him is worth the cost.
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absolutely.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 4:18:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Not much of bad behavior for public officials (all public officials, not just police) will change as long as the agency pays for any lost law suits.  When the agency pays the award for a lawsuit, it is actually the public paying the lawsuit.

What needs to change is that not only would the agency and it's supervising officials be liable, but the individual public official would be PERSONALLY liable, as in they could loose their house, pension, bank accounts.  Only then would the public officials begin to really worry about being sued.

In stead of a bureaucrat at the planning division ignoring citizens because the agency would pay any suits, they would pay attention if they knew they could loose their pension if they don't do their job properly.  It would be unfair to just apply this logic to the police, and I want all public officials to be responsible for their actions.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 5:55:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 5:58:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Deliberate indifference to what a reasonable person should have recognized was a serious medical condition will likely result in liability in this case.

It does not require doctor level medical knowledge to seek medical attention.  Waiting two hours to seek medical attention is just plain stupid.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 6:48:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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That's muh baaaaby boy! He was my everything and YOU killed him!

Ma'am, you have not visited him in the 19 years he has been incarcerated. There are no letters from you in his property. You have never sent money to his commissary account.

You don't know me! You bastard!
eta: I want his property, all of it, right now.

Okay m'am, here it is.

Property inventory

Gay porn magazine 2
1 old sock he jerked off into
Drawings of Satan fucking a baby
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Link Posted: 6/12/2019 9:13:45 PM EDT
[#40]
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Indeed.  Get medical. Let them decide.
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It doesn't matter, honestly.

Even if your dealing with someone you believe is 100% FOS, based on your knowledge or their past behavior, leaving someone who looks to be in distress is going to get you or your department's ass burned.

Especially if you have medical staff available at the time.

CYA is the name of the game now-a-days. The 8th Amendment and Deliberate Indifference are a bitch.
This. I had one inmate have 4 "seizures" in a week. Everytime it happened I did the same thing, called for response staff and medical. I am not a doctor I don't get paid to decide if he is full of shit or having a real medical issue.
Indeed.  Get medical. Let them decide.
LOL...I got a story about a run to Level 4 security prison.  Absolutely no one cares.  Inmate could have been puking gallons of blood.  Didn't matter.  No one cares.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 11:13:55 PM EDT
[#41]
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You admit you don't know anything about corrections and you say it's not an option? Of course it is an option. I have seen it scores of times. You call medical and say I have a guy exhibiting X symptoms. the nurse says "tell him to put in a sick call" or "he's faking, we have seen him 3 times today". Then they don't show up. You send call the shift supervisor and say, "Hey Captain, inmates Smith is doing x in his cell, I called medical and they said they aren't coming, what should I do?" Captain " You have done your job, I'll call them." Nurse, backed by Health Administrator, "We dont work for you, are you a trained medical professional?"

I have a specific story about this I can tell, that scared me to death. At the time I was Chief of Security at a maximum security prison. if you want I can tell you about it.
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Medical goes to the cell and evaluates the prisoner. If they say the person is faking then I have it documented and move on.

If they say they cannot determine if the person is faking or not, I notify my supervisor who will then the majority of time, have an ambulance dispatched to the scene.

We will then either send an officer to the hospital with the prisoner or in some cases, get them a signature bond, a court date and send them on their way.
You must have missed where I said they don't come to the cell.
That's not an option unless there is a security issue.
You admit you don't know anything about corrections and you say it's not an option? Of course it is an option. I have seen it scores of times. You call medical and say I have a guy exhibiting X symptoms. the nurse says "tell him to put in a sick call" or "he's faking, we have seen him 3 times today". Then they don't show up. You send call the shift supervisor and say, "Hey Captain, inmates Smith is doing x in his cell, I called medical and they said they aren't coming, what should I do?" Captain " You have done your job, I'll call them." Nurse, backed by Health Administrator, "We dont work for you, are you a trained medical professional?"

I have a specific story about this I can tell, that scared me to death. At the time I was Chief of Security at a maximum security prison. if you want I can tell you about it.
Personally, I prefer funny prison stories. Got any of those?

When I was in grad school there was a legitimately crazy guy in the local jail who started going on one of his usual rants.  Only this time to drive the point home he stuck his thumb in an eye socket and popped out one of his eyes. He was going for the other eye when COs finally got in there to stop him.

Reportedly, after that happened the other inmates started calling him popeye.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 11:19:43 PM EDT
[#42]
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Who cares? Prison should be hell.

I don’t care one bit nor would I reprimand the guard.
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If they can't provide basic medical then the inmates should be released.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 11:20:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 11:42:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Well, he wanted to be a badass.
Link Posted: 6/12/2019 11:48:26 PM EDT
[#45]
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Even if the guy is a bad dude, if the prison staff are no better than the criminals what are we really achieving?
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Killin people who harm children
Pay fucking attention
Link Posted: 6/13/2019 12:03:07 AM EDT
[#46]
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Police Officer is an honorable profession.
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Every screw I met was there because they couldn't be a police officer.
@QCMGR

Screw? What were you convicted of? You good with people using the word Pig to describe police officers?
Police Officer is an honorable profession.
And a jailer isn't? Lot of Jailer hate in here, must be some disgruntled ex-inmates too?
Link Posted: 6/13/2019 12:19:20 AM EDT
[#47]
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Fixed.
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This will not turn out well for the Sheriff taxpayers..
Fixed.
The Sheriff as well.

The sheriff is generally sued individually in addition to the county.  Our last Sheriff was personally sued 13 times before he retired.  Just scumbags looking for a payout but they still need to be defended.
Link Posted: 6/13/2019 12:28:20 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 6/13/2019 12:39:18 AM EDT
[#49]
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Who cares? Prison should be hell.

I don’t care one bit nor would I reprimand the guard.
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You know, almost every one in prison is guilty.  Almost.
Link Posted: 6/13/2019 12:44:21 AM EDT
[#50]
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Who cares? Prison should be hell.

I don’t care one bit nor would I reprimand the guard.
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He wasn’t in prison, he was in jail.  Not everyone that’s locked up in jail deserves to die and some may not even be guilty and are awaiting trial.  It’s shouldn’t mimic a 4-star resort, but people should be given medical attention when necessary.
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