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User Panel
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:09:01 AM EDT
[#1]
The families argued the government "lied and violated their rights through a secret process" and asked U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor to rescind Boeing's immunity from criminal prosecution - which was part of the $2.5 billion agreement - and order the planemaker publicly arraigned on felony charges. O'Connor ruled on Friday that "in sum, but for Boeing's criminal conspiracy to defraud the (Federal Aviation Administration), 346 people would not have lost their lives in the crashes." |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:22:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: The families argued the government "lied and violated their rights through a secret process" and asked U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor to rescind Boeing's immunity from criminal prosecution - which was part of the $2.5 billion agreement - and order the planemaker publicly arraigned on felony charges. O'Connor ruled on Friday that "in sum, but for Boeing's criminal conspiracy to defraud the (Federal Aviation Administration), 346 people would not have lost their lives in the crashes." How to become a M level manager or higher: learn creative ways of hiding, distorting, and obfuscating the truth, the more current business school buzzwords, the better. Clear and concise is not allowed, that is considered poor communication. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:25:48 AM EDT
[#3]
I mean I wouldn’t mind seeing Jim McNerney in prison, but that isn’t going to happen.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:28:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Corporations are people. Until they're just some vague idea that is only necessary because of paperwork or something. Not guilty.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:30:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just another routine day at Boeing. How to become a M level manager or higher: learn creative ways of hiding, distorting, and obfuscating the truth, the more current business school buzzwords, the better. Clear and concise is not allowed, that is considered poor communication. As a supplier, we find that often our project meetings are a medium to facilitate Boeing communicating with each other. It is hilarious to watch. We were wondering if we could assert for that.  |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:38:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Never mind, I need more coffee.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:53:56 AM EDT
[#7]
I have no doubt that an investigation could reveal individuals who made decisions that ultimately lead to the crash and deaths.
However I expect the attorneys would give a jury enough reasonable doubt to acquit all of them. Nothing meaningful would happen or change the way business operates. I just read about the Alaska airlines crash, because of maintenance cuts an elevator screw was not being greased, killed all those people over a dollars worth of gunk. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:59:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Everything is fine, its Boeing. Too big to fail and in bed with the all the right people
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:02:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: The families argued the government "lied and violated their rights through a secret process" and asked U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor to rescind Boeing's immunity from criminal prosecution - which was part of the $2.5 billion agreement - and order the planemaker publicly arraigned on felony charges. O'Connor ruled on Friday that "in sum, but for Boeing's criminal conspiracy to defraud the (Federal Aviation Administration), 346 people would not have lost their lives in the crashes." Good ruling and yup. When a corporation reaches a level that undermines the people's safety and puts profits first, it has to go. I don't say that lightly because I have friends that work at Boeing. Their idiotic execs and culture are destroying a once thriving company. That's a real fing shame. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:03:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good ruling and yup. When a corporation reaches a level that undermines the people's safety and puts profits first, it has to go. I don't say that lightly because I have friends that work at Boeing. Their idiotic execs and culture are destroying a once thriving company. That's a real fing shame. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The families argued the government "lied and violated their rights through a secret process" and asked U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor to rescind Boeing's immunity from criminal prosecution - which was part of the $2.5 billion agreement - and order the planemaker publicly arraigned on felony charges. O'Connor ruled on Friday that "in sum, but for Boeing's criminal conspiracy to defraud the (Federal Aviation Administration), 346 people would not have lost their lives in the crashes." Good ruling and yup. When a corporation reaches a level that undermines the people's safety and puts profits first, it has to go. I don't say that lightly because I have friends that work at Boeing. Their idiotic execs and culture are destroying a once thriving company. That's a real fing shame. So who do you think is getting charged with the crime? Let alone convicted and sentenced to prison time. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:13:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who do you think is getting charged with the crime? Let alone convicted and sentenced to prison time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The families argued the government "lied and violated their rights through a secret process" and asked U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor to rescind Boeing's immunity from criminal prosecution - which was part of the $2.5 billion agreement - and order the planemaker publicly arraigned on felony charges. O'Connor ruled on Friday that "in sum, but for Boeing's criminal conspiracy to defraud the (Federal Aviation Administration), 346 people would not have lost their lives in the crashes." Good ruling and yup. When a corporation reaches a level that undermines the people's safety and puts profits first, it has to go. I don't say that lightly because I have friends that work at Boeing. Their idiotic execs and culture are destroying a once thriving company. That's a real fing shame. So who do you think is getting charged with the crime? Let alone convicted and sentenced to prison time. No one, actually. But the point is holding a company liable for criminal negligence and conspiracy. If that ruling has the potential to undo their original agreement with the families and set legal precedence to prevent such things in the future, that's a step in the right direction. They'll get more money and make a statement. The whole point is that it never should've happened. Boeing did stupid things. You want to hold it accountable, not sweep it under the rug. Ethics must be a high priority for a defense contractor. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 12:49:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a supplier, we find that often our project meetings are a medium to facilitate Boeing communicating with each other. It is hilarious to watch. We were wondering if we could assert for that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just another routine day at Boeing. How to become a M level manager or higher: learn creative ways of hiding, distorting, and obfuscating the truth, the more current business school buzzwords, the better. Clear and concise is not allowed, that is considered poor communication. As a supplier, we find that often our project meetings are a medium to facilitate Boeing communicating with each other. It is hilarious to watch. We were wondering if we could assert for that. I have witnessed that in practice. If you're in one of the large conference rooms with stadium seating, nearly every person not at the main tables up front is surfing the internet. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 12:55:40 PM EDT
[#13]
All of the 737 Max litigation is BS.
Did you see any crashes in the US? No. Why not? Because the pilots here are well trained and not idiots All those foreign pilots needed to do to save themselves and everyone relying on them is flip the two stab cut-out switches on the center pedestal, push the nose over some to unload the stab trim actuator jackscrew, and manually crank the stab trim wheel back to nose up. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 12:57:34 PM EDT
[#14]
If they can get a billion from Alex Jones, this should net several trillion.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:08:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Good ruling.
At best it is criminal negligence. Fuck Boeing. Unfortunately the government will prevent them from facing any real consequences. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:13:09 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:20:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of the 737 Max litigation is BS. Did you see any crashes in the US? No. Why not? Because the pilots here are well trained and not idiots All those foreign pilots needed to do to save themselves and everyone relying on them is flip the two stab cut-out switches on the center pedestal, push the nose over some to unload the stab trim actuator jackscrew, and manually crank the stab trim wheel back to nose up. This.... And if I recall correctly there were a few incidences in the US (6 maybe?) where the US pilots did the correct thing and landed safely. I hate to spill the beans to all those not in the industry, but "pilot intervention" is a recognized and valid response to certain failures and conditions in the System Safety Assessment (SSA). A stuck trim switch on the yoke could have caused the same issues with the same results (and required the same corrective pilot intervention) as the auto-trim issue. We will never know if those foreign pilots would have handed that any better. That said... My personal feelings on using a single source of data for something that overrides the pilot's commands, not having auto-trim disable after pilot tries to use the trim switch on the yoke, and lack of trim runaway annunciation were bad decisions on Boeing's part. Even if they followed the correct processes and procedures while performing the SSA, someone should have stood up and said "This is new, and we need to make its operation abundantly clear". Criminal...probably not. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:24:45 PM EDT
[#18]
why doesn't the C Suite go to jail?
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:25:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a supplier, we find that often our project meetings are a medium to facilitate Boeing communicating with each other. It is hilarious to watch. We were wondering if we could assert for that. Thanks for the laugh!!! Its nice to know its not just me who sees this. 
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:45:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Now, do SLS.
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:48:09 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 10/25/2022 1:58:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryI worked on that type aircraft for a very long time. Another example of absolute stupidity on the part of foreign pilots. What happened there? A faulty auto-feather unit shut down an engine, and the pilots shut down the remaining good engine. The captain had failed his flight exam several times. After that incident, so many of their pilots failed that they had to shut down. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 2:09:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I worked on that type aircraft for a very long time. Another example of absolute stupidity on the part of foreign pilots. What happened there? A faulty auto-feather unit shut down an engine, and the pilots shut down the remaining good engine. The captain had failed his flight exam several times. After that incident, so many of their pilots failed that they had to shut down. Yes, it boggles the mind. If you really want to get sporty, fly on a Pakistani or Indian airplane. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 2:17:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it boggles the mind. If you really want to get sporty, fly on a Pakistani or Indian airplane. Big pass on that dawg. I wouldn’t let most people from either of those areas work on my lawn mower. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 2:56:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of the 737 Max litigation is BS. Did you see any crashes in the US? No. Why not? Because the pilots here are well trained and not idiots All those foreign pilots needed to do to save themselves and everyone relying on them is flip the two stab cut-out switches on the center pedestal, push the nose over some to unload the stab trim actuator jackscrew, and manually crank the stab trim wheel back to nose up. That’s hubris. There’s a little bit of truth to it, but it’s a vast oversimplification. Yes, It’s easy to do Once you know about the system, and possibility of it happening. The Criminal aspect; is the fact that Boeing put MCAS on just One AOA, without any redundancy or fault monitoring/lockout. Then, they didn’t tell the pilots about MCAS, or the possibility of that scenario. And, they still didn’t tell anyone, even after they knew what caused the first crash. When the event occurred, the pilots thought they had a stall or Stab failure. It didn’t look like a runaway trim. If you’re a pilot, you understand how deceptive and treacherous that failure is, occurring at 1000’ and just as the flaps retract. On the wrong day, with the wrong crew, it could have happened here. I prefer Boeing over Airbus, but to this day, I still cannot believe they designed it that way, initially. For anyone interested, the problem was addressed, and the Max is a great airplane and safe. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 3:00:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This.... And if I recall correctly there were a few incidences in the US (6 maybe?) where the US pilots did the correct thing and landed safely. I hate to spill the beans to all those not in the industry, but "pilot intervention" is a recognized and valid response to certain failures and conditions in the System Safety Assessment (SSA). A stuck trim switch on the yoke could have caused the same issues with the same results (and required the same corrective pilot intervention) as the auto-trim issue. We will never know if those foreign pilots would have handed that any better. That said... My personal feelings on using a single source of data for something that overrides the pilot's commands, not having auto-trim disable after pilot tries to use the trim switch on the yoke, and lack of trim runaway annunciation were bad decisions on Boeing's part. Even if they followed the correct processes and procedures while performing the SSA, someone should have stood up and said "This is new, and we need to make its operation abundantly clear". Criminal...probably not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All of the 737 Max litigation is BS. Did you see any crashes in the US? No. Why not? Because the pilots here are well trained and not idiots All those foreign pilots needed to do to save themselves and everyone relying on them is flip the two stab cut-out switches on the center pedestal, push the nose over some to unload the stab trim actuator jackscrew, and manually crank the stab trim wheel back to nose up. This.... And if I recall correctly there were a few incidences in the US (6 maybe?) where the US pilots did the correct thing and landed safely. I hate to spill the beans to all those not in the industry, but "pilot intervention" is a recognized and valid response to certain failures and conditions in the System Safety Assessment (SSA). A stuck trim switch on the yoke could have caused the same issues with the same results (and required the same corrective pilot intervention) as the auto-trim issue. We will never know if those foreign pilots would have handed that any better. That said... My personal feelings on using a single source of data for something that overrides the pilot's commands, not having auto-trim disable after pilot tries to use the trim switch on the yoke, and lack of trim runaway annunciation were bad decisions on Boeing's part. Even if they followed the correct processes and procedures while performing the SSA, someone should have stood up and said "This is new, and we need to make its operation abundantly clear". Criminal...probably not. I’m not aware of any, but if you have instances, Post them up. If not, don’t just post any old shit you dreamed of. It’s hard enough to have a factual discussion, without people making up fake news. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 3:31:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not aware of any, but if you have instances, Post them up. If not, don’t just post any old shit you dreamed of. It’s hard enough to have a factual discussion, without people making up fake news. It's been a long time ago now but there were a few reports posted. They were pulled from some .gov database (I think) and published by one of the news outlets. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 4:21:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been a long time ago now but there were a few reports posted. They were pulled from some .gov database (I think) and published by one of the news outlets. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m not aware of any, but if you have instances, Post them up. If not, don’t just post any old shit you dreamed of. It’s hard enough to have a factual discussion, without people making up fake news. It's been a long time ago now but there were a few reports posted. They were pulled from some .gov database (I think) and published by one of the news outlets. It was said that one of the accident airplanes had a similar event, just prior to the accident flight. It was handled well, and then Maintenance did a quick “Can not duplicate, return to service”. Apparently, word didn’t get around the pilot group quick enough. |
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