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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:50:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Boring. Do Harvard, a $42 billion tax-free investment and government control entity masquerading as a university. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now do the Vatican!  Boring. Do Harvard, a $42 billion tax-free investment and government control entity masquerading as a university. This is a rounding error to the LDS church. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:53:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And this Saturday you’re assigned to clean the church because it’s too expensive to hire custodians. Time to get on hands and knees to scrape play-dough out of the nursery carpet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From the documents: p.3 The Church created Ensign Peak in 1997 as an integrated auxiliary of the Church to manage the Church’s investment securities. Ensign Peak has no shareholders or members. The securities portfolio managed by Ensign Peak consists of what the Church calls “reserve funds” or “reserves,” which include U.S. equity and debt securities purchased with excess tithing, income and returns generated by Ensign Peak, and the assets of other Church integrated auxiliaries. Ensign Peak does not charge the Church management fees. To prevent disclosure of the securities portfolio managed by Ensign Peak, the Church approved Ensign Peak’s plan of using other entities, instead of Ensign Peak, to file Forms 13F. The Church was concerned that disclosure of the assets in the name of Ensign Peak, a known Church affiliate, would lead to negative consequences in light of the size of the Church’s portfolio. Ensign Peak did not have the authority to implement this approach without the approval of the Church’s First Presidency. I'm LDS. This is a problem. And this Saturday you’re assigned to clean the church because it’s too expensive to hire custodians. Time to get on hands and knees to scrape play-dough out of the nursery carpet. Not my week. 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:59:11 PM EDT
[#3]
I live amongst Mormons but I don't belong to their church. For the most part the members of the Mormon church are good people. Very faithful to their religion, almost to a fault.
The money thing has always bothered me. I see families struggling to make ends meet while paying two taxes- one to their church and one to the government. It shouldn't be that way. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:00:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now do the Vatican! X1000 |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:02:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now do Scientology. X1,000,000 |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:12:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow, OP really has a hardon for the mormons.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:18:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is correct. Employed building custodians went away many years ago. Now they assign several members a week to clean the churches on Saturday. It’s an opportunity for more service. IIRC the volunteer/service work that members provide for charity is assigned a dollar value and included when announcing the church’s charitable outreach. Need to find verification on that one, so take it as speculation. Wrong. Not speculation, just flat out not true. Just like much of the church criticism you see out there. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:19:32 PM EDT
[#8]
John Moses Browning was LDS. The company that bears his name is still in Ogden UT, a suburb of SLC.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:21:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Desert Tech is owned by the Kingston polygamist crime family. Small but important distinction. Fundamentalist LDS offshoot and not mainstream Mormon church. Think closer to OG Joseph Smith and not nearly as rich or influential as the Salt Lake church. But they are following the exact same doctrine, with the exact same books, right? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:25:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's just a big investment firm making a few people rich Who is getting rich off of it? Real names, please. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:28:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I live amongst Mormons but I don't belong to their church. For the most part the members of the Mormon church are good people. Very faithful to their religion, almost to a fault. The money thing has always bothered me. I see families struggling to make ends meet while paying two taxes- one to their church and one to the government. It shouldn't be that way. What other core doctrines and principles of various religions are okay to overlook because they are a struggle for some individuals to follow? Any of the 10 commandments on that list? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:34:22 PM EDT
[#12]
IRS will not get involved once the LDS pays their tithe (with accrued interest) to the "Big Man"
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:36:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Now do the biggest shadow group of "persecuted" religious folk that has nefariously infiltrated almost every pillar of money, power, and control in the world. The group that hates everyone, even themselves when they have a moment of reflection.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:46:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. Not speculation, just flat out not true. Just like much of the church criticism you see out there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is correct. Employed building custodians went away many years ago. Now they assign several members a week to clean the churches on Saturday. It’s an opportunity for more service. IIRC the volunteer/service work that members provide for charity is assigned a dollar value and included when announcing the church’s charitable outreach. Need to find verification on that one, so take it as speculation. Wrong. Not speculation, just flat out not true. Just like much of the church criticism you see out there. I have not been able to find any complete itemized breakdown in church reports going as far back as 2011. In the absence of that, neither your nor my position can be proven. However, I said that mine needed verification and was based in memory. You made a statement of fact, which as a STEM educated professional you know requires documentation. I would be happy to find something more concrete than statements of combined giving. You will find your literature review to be more convoluted since they recently consolidated reports to include internal welfare along with humanitarian outreach. Please @ me when you have the citation, Doctor. Page 7 of this pdf includes at least some services with the dollar figure on expenditures. Based on that at least, my position is supported. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/english/charities/pdf/2021/PD60013504_CaringForThoseInNeed_Annual_Report_2021_mobile_eng.pdf?lang=eng All of the above notwithstanding, conservative estimates on tithing and other contributions are on the order of several billion dollars a year. Reported charitable outreach is about $900M a year, and the EPA fund essentially self-sustaining, what happens to the excess contributions? If the whistleblower report to the IRS is accurate, “excess tithing” is allocated to the EPA fund. That should be transparent to the membership who are led to believe they’re donating to charity. IME, most members probably believe that tithing and fast offerings are both used for welfare and humanitarian aid. I was under that impression in my younger years. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:49:13 PM EDT
[#15]
LDS just doing the needful
What’s surprising about the big dogs scrapping |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:21:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not been able to find any complete itemized breakdown in church reports going as far back as 2011. In the absence of that, neither your nor my position can be proven. However, I said that mine needed verification and was based in memory. You made a statement of fact, which as a STEM educated professional you know requires documentation. I would be happy to find something more concrete than statements of combined giving. You will find your literature review to be more convoluted since they recently consolidated reports to include internal welfare along with humanitarian outreach. Please @ me when you have the citation, Doctor. Page 7 of this pdf includes at least some services with the dollar figure on expenditures. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/english/charities/pdf/2021/PD60013504_CaringForThoseInNeed_Annual_Report_2021_mobile_eng.pdf?lang=eng All of the above notwithstanding, conservative estimates on tithing and other contributions are on the order of several billion dollars a year. Reported charitable outreach is about $900M a year, and the EPA fund essentially self-sustaining, what happens to the excess contributions? If the whistleblower report to the IRS is accurate, “excess tithing” is allocated to the EPA fund. That should be transparent to the membership who are led to believe they’re donating to charity. If you polled most members, most probably believe that tithing and fast offerings are both used for welfare and humanitarian aid. I know it is false because I have been involved in both the planning of and carrying out meetinghouse cleaning. There is no reporting of how long it takes to clean or how many people are involved. It is left up to individual units to decide how to clean. I know some units that have families receiving church welfare assistance involved in much of the cleaning. That is one difference between government welfare and church welfare. Government is a free handout with nothing expected in return. The Church expects those that receive assistance to do some form of service in return. It could be cleaning the building, it could be mowing an elderly persons lawn for them. I have seen a bishop ask a member family receiving assistance to go to a local nursing home and visit those residents without families to visit them. It lets them do something for the help they receive and not simply become dependent. Any "excess" funds are invested to have for when times become more difficult. There will be times in the future when more will be spent. The church is not like the government that spends more then it takes in. It saves so when needed it is available. With 128 temples in various stages of construction or renovation, you could say there is probably not much excess. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:32:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it is false because I have been involved in both the planning of and carrying out meetinghouse cleaning. There is no reporting of how long it takes to clean or how many people are involved. It is left up to individual units to decide how to clean. I know some units that have families receiving church welfare assistance involved in much of the cleaning. That is one difference between government welfare and church welfare. Government is a free handout with nothing expected in return. The Church expects those that receive assistance to do some form of service in return. It could be cleaning the building, it could be mowing an elderly persons lawn for them. I have seen a bishop ask a member family receiving assistance to go to a local nursing home and visit those without families to visit them. It lets them do something for the help they receive and not simply become dependent. Any "excess" funds are invested to have for when times become more difficult. There will be times in the future when more will be spent. The church is not like the government that spends more then it takes in. It saves so when needed it is available. With 128 temples in various stages of construction or renovation, you could say there is probably not much excess. I’ve been involved in the meetinghouse cleaning, too. That’s not what I’m discussing. I’m referring to things like documented hours donated to working in the cannery, service hour reports from missionaries, donated professional services and even unskilled labor, etc. Look at the rules for filing IRS form 990. Volunteer hours are explicitly disallowed from being listed as contributions in parts 1 and 2. They ARE allowed to be described as expenses in part 3, statement or program service announcements. General volunteer hours for charities are estimated around $30, with professional hours being higher values. It is entirely legal for a tax exempt organization to report volunteer hours. That’s several orders of magnitude less complicated than the actions described in the SEC notice, and it’s not even questionably legal. It’s overtly legal on the IRS page. It doesn’t take a consultation with a law firm. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:39:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember hearing at one time how much money passes through the LDS church. I don't recall exactly what the numbers were, but it was jaw-dropping. figure 10 million members (low) , income of 30k per member, 10% tithe.. BIG money quick. 3000x10million incomes. is that 3 billion a year?, say 50% compounding after 10+ years you are talking serious money. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:52:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve been involved in the meetinghouse cleaning, too. That’s not what I’m discussing. I’m referring to things like documented hours donated to working in the cannery, service hour reports from missionaries, donated professional services and even unskilled labor, etc. Look at the rules for filing IRS form 990. Volunteer hours are explicitly disallowed from being listed as contributions in parts 1 and 2. They ARE allowed to be described as expenses in part 3, statement or program service announcements. General volunteer hours for charities are estimated around $30, with professional hours being higher values. It is entirely legal for a tax exempt organization to report volunteer hours. That’s several orders of magnitude less complicated than the actions described in the SEC notice, and it’s not even questionably legal. It’s overtly legal on the IRS page. It doesn’t take a consultation with a law firm. Your statement made it seem that is what you were discussing. You talked about members cleaning the chapels for more "service", and then stated right after that the church counts service hours towards it's charitable donations. I have also been involved with planning and leading service functions after natural disasters and am not aware of any reporting of service hours that is used to add to it's charity count. Funds spent for relief aid and supplies would be. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:59:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it is false because I have been involved in both the planning of and carrying out meetinghouse cleaning. There is no reporting of how long it takes to clean or how many people are involved. It is left up to individual units to decide how to clean. I know some units that have families receiving church welfare assistance involved in much of the cleaning. That is one difference between government welfare and church welfare. Government is a free handout with nothing expected in return. The Church expects those that receive assistance to do some form of service in return. It could be cleaning the building, it could be mowing an elderly persons lawn for them. I have seen a bishop ask a member family receiving assistance to go to a local nursing home and visit those residents without families to visit them. It lets them do something for the help they receive and not simply become dependent. Any "excess" funds are invested to have for when times become more difficult. There will be times in the future when more will be spent. The church is not like the government that spends more then it takes in. It saves so when needed it is available. With 128 temples in various stages of construction or renovation, you could say there is probably not much excess. That is not how it works around here. The takers take until they wear out their welcome, then move to an adjacent ward and start over again. These are the same people that call on thanksgiving to cry about not having anything to eat, then bitch when you show up with generics. FTN. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:59:57 PM EDT
[#21]
This is a bit of a non sequitir, but a few of the nurses I’m working with got in a discussion about how many times they’ve had to help patients with strokes or heart attacks during sacrament meeting.
How many meetinghouses have an AED? None that I’ve ever seen. How many have any first aid supplies beyond the rusty metal wall mounted box in the custodial closet? None that I’ve ever seen. IIRC only temples have AEDs. This speaks to a level of regard for membership at large vs the PR & branding. I’ve picked up a high level Choir member who got flown to a meeting on a donated flight from a Learjet. His suit cost more than the Toyota I was driving. It would not be unreasonable to wonder why tithing funds or other surpluses aren’t used to have lifesaving equipment in general meetinghouses. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 5:10:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now do the biggest shadow group of "persecuted" religious folk that has nefariously infiltrated almost every pillar of money, power, and control in the world. The group that hates everyone, even themselves when they have a moment of reflection. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/tenor-132.gif Oy gevalt! |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 6:14:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I forget which leader said this but he suggested that instead of saying "church" replace it with "God". So God committed SCC violations. Well if that's true, then it's God's money anyway, we know the government is corrupt, so it's His to do with as He pleases |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 6:41:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well if that's true, then it's God's money anyway, we know the government is corrupt, so it's His to do with as He pleases Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I forget which leader said this but he suggested that instead of saying "church" replace it with "God". So God committed SCC violations. Well if that's true, then it's God's money anyway, we know the government is corrupt, so it's His to do with as He pleases And a little lightening smiting here and there wouldn't hurt anything either, while He's at it. 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 7:06:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a bit of a non sequitir, but a few of the nurses I’m working with got in a discussion about how many times they’ve had to help patients with strokes or heart attacks during sacrament meeting. How many meetinghouses have an AED? None that I’ve ever seen. How many have any first aid supplies beyond the rusty metal wall mounted box in the custodial closet? None that I’ve ever seen. IIRC only temples have AEDs. This speaks to a level of regard for membership at large vs the PR & branding. I’ve picked up a high level Choir member who got flown to a meeting on a donated flight from a Learjet. His suit cost more than the Toyota I was driving. It would not be unreasonable to wonder why tithing funds or other surpluses aren’t used to have lifesaving equipment in general meetinghouses. AED's? LOL. Our carpet is worn down to the backing and the HVAC doesn't work in half the building. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 7:27:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AED's? LOL. Our carpet is worn down to the backing and the HVAC doesn't work in half the building. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is a bit of a non sequitir, but a few of the nurses I’m working with got in a discussion about how many times they’ve had to help patients with strokes or heart attacks during sacrament meeting. How many meetinghouses have an AED? None that I’ve ever seen. How many have any first aid supplies beyond the rusty metal wall mounted box in the custodial closet? None that I’ve ever seen. IIRC only temples have AEDs. This speaks to a level of regard for membership at large vs the PR & branding. I’ve picked up a high level Choir member who got flown to a meeting on a donated flight from a Learjet. His suit cost more than the Toyota I was driving. It would not be unreasonable to wonder why tithing funds or other surpluses aren’t used to have lifesaving equipment in general meetinghouses. AED's? LOL. Our carpet is worn down to the backing and the HVAC doesn't work in half the building. HVAC never works in the relief society room if you’re teaching Sunday school. It’s in the handbook. Look it up. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:27:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HVAC never works in the relief society room if you're teaching Sunday school. It's in the handbook. Look it up. Holy cow, this is totally true! |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:35:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, are you saying the LDS church doesn't do real charity work as compared to the catholics? What would you call the $5,000,000 the Mormon's gave for the restoration of the Cathedral of the Madeleine? I'm saying the LDS church, for calling itself a church, does surprisingly little comparatively speaking compared to the catholic church. That $5 mil. is a tax deduction or rounding error compared the relative net worth of the enterprise, versus the catholic church. I don't recall the catholics being found to break securities law and be fined by the SEC for "investments" That's what i'm saying. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:44:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I live amongst Mormons but I don't belong to their church. For the most part the members of the Mormon church are good people. Very faithful to their religion, almost to a fault. The money thing has always bothered me. I see families struggling to make ends meet while paying two taxes- one to their church and one to the government. It shouldn't be that way. "Only contributors can receive blessings and achieve salvation" though, like buying a life insurance policy. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:46:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm saying the LDS church, for calling itself a church, does surprisingly little comparatively speaking compared to the catholic church. That $5 mil. is a tax deduction or rounding error compared the relative net worth of the enterprise, versus the catholic church. I don't recall the catholics being found to break securities law and be fined by the SEC for "investments" That's what i'm saying. The Church has had many high profile financial improprieties. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:47:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Mormons are Democrats in Republican clothing
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:49:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit. Jesus Christ is God, the Only-Begotten Son of our Heavenly Father. He is the Creator of this world and all that exists in it. He is the great I AM, Jehovah, the Lord of Hosts, the God of the Old Testament. He is our Savior, Redeemer, and Advocate to the Father. We do not believe Jesus, our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are the same being. So for the record: Heavenly Father = God. Jesus Christ = God. Holy Ghost = God. All members of the Godhead, but not the same being. But Jesus wasn't the only God according to mormons. They say there were many Gods before him, but before they were Gods they were men. It's also taught that a man can become God through the LDS church. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:57:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Is it possible to learn this power?
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:07:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Mittens got to be all up in there doing it family style.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:18:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But Jesus wasn't the only God according to mormons. They say there were many Gods before him, but before they were Gods they were men. It's also taught that a man can become God through the LDS church. So did all those men who became gods pay tithing? Let’s keep the thread on track now. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:29:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently, it doesn't pass through though...just sits in "rainy day funds". So who is benefitting? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I remember hearing at one time how much money passes through the LDS church. I don't recall exactly what the numbers were, but it was jaw-dropping. Apparently, it doesn't pass through though...just sits in "rainy day funds". So who is benefitting? From what I've heard, the LDS has a fairly extensive privatized social welfare program for their congregants. Yes, Mormons are expected to tithe 10% of their income... but they actually get something in return. By helping the church, the church actually stands by their own obligation of helping their members when they fall on hard times. You can't say that about * A LOT * of non-LDS churches. The fact that the LDS can accomplish that while *STILL* dealing with any amount of corruption... is actually a testimony to how good they are with money. ETA: I say this as someone who is decidedly not mormon,... and frankly get pissed off that the LDS church seems to consistently produce some of the worst politicians the world has ever seen. I'm looking at you Mitt Romney and Harry Reid. But the LDS's social safety net they provide congregants is something that is entirely biblical, and is a massive area in which other churches fall short. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:32:39 PM EDT
[#37]
10% to the big church
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Posted: 2/23/2023 6:49:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I've heard, the LDS has a fairly extensive privatized social welfare program for their congregants. Yes, Mormons are expected to tithe 10% of their income... but they actually get something in return. By helping the church, the church actually stands by their own obligation of helping their members when they fall on hard times. You can't say that about * A LOT * of non-LDS churches. The fact that the LDS can accomplish that while *STILL* dealing with any amount of corruption... is actually a testimony to how good they are with money. ETA: I say this as someone who is decidedly not mormon,... and frankly get pissed off that the LDS church seems to consistently produce some of the worst politicians the world has ever seen. I'm looking at you Mitt Romney and Harry Reid. But the LDS's social safety net they provide congregants is something that is entirely biblical, and is a massive area in which other churches fall short. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I remember hearing at one time how much money passes through the LDS church. I don't recall exactly what the numbers were, but it was jaw-dropping. Apparently, it doesn't pass through though...just sits in "rainy day funds". So who is benefitting? From what I've heard, the LDS has a fairly extensive privatized social welfare program for their congregants. Yes, Mormons are expected to tithe 10% of their income... but they actually get something in return. By helping the church, the church actually stands by their own obligation of helping their members when they fall on hard times. You can't say that about * A LOT * of non-LDS churches. The fact that the LDS can accomplish that while *STILL* dealing with any amount of corruption... is actually a testimony to how good they are with money. ETA: I say this as someone who is decidedly not mormon,... and frankly get pissed off that the LDS church seems to consistently produce some of the worst politicians the world has ever seen. I'm looking at you Mitt Romney and Harry Reid. But the LDS's social safety net they provide congregants is something that is entirely biblical, and is a massive area in which other churches fall short. As with government social welfare programs, there are scammers. I have a lazy BIL that "converted" to LDS just to get on the dole with them. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 8:13:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, pretty harmless compared to what the government has done. I am a member and it doesn't bother me one bit. Most faithful members I know also are not concerned over issues like this. It seems the only ones that get their panties in a bunch over these issues are ex-members or non-members trying to discredit the church. I can see the good the church is doing all around the world with the funds they have. I have seen the blessings paying tithing have brought into my life. I listen to testimonies weekly of other members who also personally have seen the blessings of paying tithing in their lives. It's almost like God is keeping a promise he made somewhere in some book once: "10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. " I will keep paying faithfully because in my life experiences, I can not afford not to pay the Lord his share. I believe this doesn't just apply to members of the LDS church either. Anyone willing to consecrate a tenth of their increase to God is entitled to his blessings. Just a quick question, how does your church view charitable donations that don’t go directly to the church? Would they be considered part of your tithe? |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 9:05:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not how it works around here. The takers take until they wear out their welcome, then move to an adjacent ward and start over again. These are the same people that call on thanksgiving to cry about not having anything to eat, then bitch when you show up with generics. FTN. Then the bishop is not doing his job. The handbook is very clear that assistance is to be temporary and it's purpose is to help individuals on a path to become self reliant. It also states members are expected to do something for assistance recieved. I know in the past, members have come up to our bishop asking why they haven't gotten their check yet for an expense they had, and the bishop replied, :"because I asked you to mow widow so and so's lawn in return for the assistance, and is has not been done." Some bishops are better then others. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 9:46:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then the bishop is not doing his job. The handbook is very clear that assistance is to be temporary and it's purpose is to help individuals on a path to become self reliant. It also states members are expected to do something for assistance recieved. I know in the past, members have come up to our bishop asking why they haven't gotten their check yet for an expense they had, and the bishop replied, :"because I asked you to mow widow so and so's lawn in return for the assistance, and is has not been done." Some bishops are better then others. That sounds like a really good system. I wish our welfare system in the US worked like that. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 3:10:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a quick question, how does your church view charitable donations that don’t go directly to the church? Would they be considered part of your tithe? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, pretty harmless compared to what the government has done. I am a member and it doesn't bother me one bit. Most faithful members I know also are not concerned over issues like this. It seems the only ones that get their panties in a bunch over these issues are ex-members or non-members trying to discredit the church. I can see the good the church is doing all around the world with the funds they have. I have seen the blessings paying tithing have brought into my life. I listen to testimonies weekly of other members who also personally have seen the blessings of paying tithing in their lives. It's almost like God is keeping a promise he made somewhere in some book once: "10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. " I will keep paying faithfully because in my life experiences, I can not afford not to pay the Lord his share. I believe this doesn't just apply to members of the LDS church either. Anyone willing to consecrate a tenth of their increase to God is entitled to his blessings. Just a quick question, how does your church view charitable donations that don’t go directly to the church? Would they be considered part of your tithe? Great question. Curious, though, that it is considered benign since the government has done worse. That is a statement that you could make about any action, no matter how heinous. A poor excuse, IMO. I also find it interesting that only those who send 10% to the big guy are entitled to His blessings. The God I know wouldn't preclude a righteous but poor soul from receiving His blessings. Since we are talking about scripture, see Luke 18:25  To be clear, I've never personally met a Mormon that I didn't find agreeable. That said, I also look with suspicion upon those who are fearful of criticizing/cannot find any fault with "their" church (any church) since the organizations are created by man and, as such, are imperfect are corruptible by nature. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 3:13:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a quick question, how does your church view charitable donations that don’t go directly to the church? Would they be considered part of your tithe? Pretty sure it doesn't count. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 3:15:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then the bishop is not doing his job. The handbook is very clear that assistance is to be temporary and it's purpose is to help individuals on a path to become self reliant. It also states members are expected to do something for assistance recieved. I know in the past, members have come up to our bishop asking why they haven't gotten their check yet for an expense they had, and the bishop replied, :"because I asked you to mow widow so and so's lawn in return for the assistance, and is has not been done." Some bishops are better then others. Well the guy running the local ward must be a 'tard...'cause he never enforces the idea that the assistance is conditional. As you would expect there are a group of perpetual "in need" in his ward. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 3:16:13 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 2/23/2023 3:25:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, OP really has a hardon for the mormons. Interesting screen name. |
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Posted: 2/24/2023 9:57:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Crickets now, eh?
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