Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
That's still crashed, it's foggy, you want it clear as water. Put it back on at max for 20+min. You are not going to damage anything. Test gets heated to 180 when it gets mixed with solvents and carrier oil for compounding. If it does not go clear after doing that....I'd be concerned it's organic growth. I have heated the fuck out of 270mg/ml cyp in the winter because the room gets cold and that's a bit high concentration for cyp with low solvents and I didn't feel like getting PIP. Zero issues.

Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
If you're considering trashing the bottle, just use the highest temp for 20min man. Organic matter won't go dissolve and go clear. Steroids will. You should do it anyway to confirm that it's just crashed. Because if it is organic matter, you should ditch all of it and never use that lab again. So either way you should see if you can get it hot enough to go back into solution. I'm assuming it's UGL. It's probably low on BA/BB but more likely just overdosed, which isn't a bad thing. So if you think it's 200mg/ml or 250mg/ml...I'd say more like 270+.

Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
Np, let us know what happens!

Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
Those other vials looked snowy as well. If it's your only test I understand, but not worth an abscess. I'd seek another source ASAP. Normally wouldn't be a thing with cyp which is relatively easy and generally high quality, but there's been some pretty terrible quality raws as of late, testing in the 80%'s. Crappy lab could have decided to brew with them, not understanding that they need to account for further BB for the 20% impurities...and the 20% impurities might have been even less soluble than actual cyp.

Originally Posted By jasonm4:


I gotcha. Not sure that it matters, but these are actually Enanthate(using USP). I noticed a couple floaties in one of the new bottles as well(right one). I'm going to try to source from a different spot honestly, but until then I'm going to try using the left bottle. No PIP or soreness from my last shot a few days ago of the shitty bottle, so hopefully I'm okay there.

Eta. I think the bad bottle looks even worse under LED lighting(this was after warming it last night). I don't want to tie up this thread with pics, so this is the last pic I'll put up lol. Maybe the lighting made the new ones look a little off, but I'm still new to this and trying to learn what I can. Thank you.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/395220/1000012336_jpg-3798292.JPG

Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
Ah, I think it may have been the adhesive on the clear labels making the others look snowy.

When you say USP you mean it's TRT clinic/compounding pharmacy?


Test E is more soluble that Cyp, which is why you see 300mg/ml sometimes, but Test E raws have had their own quality issues as well.

Originally Posted By Onlyaspike:
Is it better to store extra Testosterone Cypionate that is is not "in use" in the refrigerator or at room temperature?

Originally Posted By Danted:
Ive been on oral trt for 2 years now.
Its definitely been an improvement.
I want to switch to injections.
Ive been tele health with maximus...  they are fucking terrible they make Comcast customer service look decent.
Im in FL, who does anyone recommend

Originally Posted By -Obsessed-:
HappyCamel, I got an Rx for accutane.

Talked to my wife, she said she isnt comfortable doing gray market with my health issues. I actually found a place through my insurance that is dirt cheap. Lab draws are free, and 8 appointments total at $10/appt. Rx is $5/mo. So full course to get my initial load over 10 months will be $130. Thats a quarter of the price of the meds from India alone. I can handle 10 virtual appointments, they are 5-10 minutes, and i get my blood drawn constantly anyway between TRT and T1D. So this should work out well.

Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
Woahhh that's sweet! Insurance was basically a non-starter for me as they wanted me to go back through the entire menu of alternatives first. You definitely found the best choice. Remember if the sides get too bad, you can request lower dose, it'll still work, just take longer.

Thanks for updating, I was meaning to check in to see what you ended up doing.

Originally Posted By Danted:
Ive been on oral trt for 2 years now.
Its definitely been an improvement.
I want to switch to injections.
Ive been tele health with maximus...  they are fucking terrible they make Comcast customer service look decent.
Im in FL, who does anyone recommend

Originally Posted By tucansam:
Couple of weeks ago, my trough test resulted in a T of 837.  Last week it was 1139.  Same exact prior injection time (0300 on Friday), same exact test time (0715 on Monday), same exact dosing during the week (MWF).  

Why the large delta?

Originally Posted By tucansam:
Couple of weeks ago, my trough test resulted in a T of 837.  Last week it was 1139.  Same exact prior injection time (0300 on Friday), same exact test time (0715 on Monday), same exact dosing during the week (MWF).  

Why the large delta?

Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
Was the 837 your first blood test on TRT? If not, which is closer to your normal trough? If the 837 is closer to your normal trough, you might have nicked a blood vessel with the second dose. Did you change bottles of test between tests? Same injection site?

Originally Posted By Turok:
Has anyone experienced tendon issues after being on T? I've been having major tennis elbow in both arms, some success using the techniques that the one member posts quarterly but it just never seems to go away completely. Sometimes (like this month) it comes roaring back without any clear cause or aggravating factor. I've also had shoulder and knee issues that have all traced back to tendonitis. Thinking of talking to my wellness clinic about peptide BPC-157 to see if that will help. May also try to get in with my ortho to look for any possible issues like a partial tear.

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
Are you lifting a lot?   Muscle grows faster than tendons.

Originally Posted By TurkeyLeg:
If i had to guess, id say your odds of being prescribed any amount of test are low.  Not because its necessarily a bad idea, but rather because most docs and trt mills only look at total T -- and yours isnt bad.  Mine is right below that in its trough, and thats on 160 mg a week.  Im genuinely hypogonadal, however.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  Very easy to get prescribed if you are very active, not super fat, and have a total T under 100, like i did.

If you find someone who specializes in it and finds discrepancies with free test, you may have a chance.  Or if you find a doc willing to prescribe based on symptoms alone (which do exist).

Also, libido and "your pecker works" are two different things.  Your libido can drop slowly and you never notice it.  I still turned my head every time an even remotely attractive woman walked by.  My pecker still worked just fine.  But before and after test is night and day.  Its not like someone cut a switch off on me one day and i felt like trash.  Once I started treatment though, I was a new man.  35% more weight on the bar in 4 months, after being stalled for the previous 6.  Energy, clarity, aggression (vs. apathy) are all "normal" again, and I never even knew they had dropped until after treatment started and they rebounded.

The radio commercials that push TRT list every symptom that any man could possibly have with a hormone imbalance.  They are just throwing a wide net to get as many customers as possible.  Dont worry about how many of the advertised symptoms match yours when making the decision.  Get free T tested, compare to SHBG, talk to a doc that gives a shit, even if you have to doc shop.

The alternative is grey market, your own bloodwork, and a deep dive educating yourself.  And unfortunately, all the risks that come with that.

Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad:
I did a blood dump today.

My hematocrit was a 54 and some change.

I think their cutoff point is 52.

Kind of an aggravation that I had to drive to my men's clinic today just to fill up a unit bag with blood.

Originally Posted By Clarinath:
How important are hematocrit numbers when taking test?

My blood work today said I had a 56, which is 2 over the recommended 54 or lower.

It is a big deal or nothing burger at that count?

I am probably a bit dehydrated, so that may have contributed

Doc said it wasn't a big deal and they would test again in 6 months, though my total injection is going to drop to .4ml rather than .5 per week injection.

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
Here is a deep dive from a TRT group.  I didn't write the following


A rise in HCT is expected with TRT - it is called androgen induced erythrocytosis (AIE). There can be other causes for increased HCT as well - living at higher elevation, obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), and chronic smoking induce intermittent or sustained hypoxia, which triggers EPO release from the kidneys, increasing RBC proliferation to increase oxygen-carrying capacity. This increase in HCT is a compensatory adaptation - a homeostatic response. The body is trying to maintain tissue oxygenation under compromised respiratory conditions. In evolutionary terms, this is a survival-enhancing mechanism, especially in environments or behaviors that reduce oxygen availability.
AIE is slightly different. Androgens (especially testosterone) increase hematocrit via direct stimulation of EPO and suppression of hepcidin, increasing iron availability AND expansion of lean muscle mass, which has higher mitochondrial density and oxygen demand. Lean tissue is metabolically active and oxygen-hungry. So yes   the rise in hematocrit with TRT is not just a side effect; it's likely a functional adaptation to support increased aerobic capacity, muscle recovery, and performance.
The theory of lowering HCT levels using blood donation is based on the misreading of a 1978 study. At the time, the study showed benefits of therapeutic phlebotomy on patients suffering with polycythemia vera (a rare blood cancer) - NOT Androgen Induced Erythocytosis. The conflation of androgen-induced erythrocytosis (AIE) with polycythemia vera (PV) is a semantic error with clinical consequences caused by mixing the terms "polycythemia" and "erythrocytosis".
I am not a hematologist, but Williams Hematology, one of the most prestigious textbooks on this subject, deliberately distinguishes between "erythrocytosis" and "polycythemia," Particularly highlighting that PV is a primary, clonal hematologic disorder with a genetic mutation (usually in JAK2) that leads to unregulated red cell production. AIE, while it results in elevated red cell mass, should be classified as "secondary erythrocytosis" RATHER THAN "secondary polycythemia" in this context. This is a clear demonstration of why incorrect use of the term "secondary polycythemia"' - for any increase in RBC production due to external factors stimulating erythropoiesis, (rather than only for a primary bone marrow disorder) has lead to the belief that phlebotomy would be a beneficial treatment for AIE. I would bet that your provider mentioned to you that you have "polcythemia" rather than "erythrocytosis" and suggested donating blood to lower your HCT. They will tell you donation will lower HCT and prevent a blood clot. HOWEVER this is not a recommended course treatment for AIE. Actually your suggestion of lowering your dose is the recommended solution by those that truly understand AIE   but may not be necessary.
Is this increase in HCT dangerous? Some claim the rise in RBC's increases the visocity of the blood - slowing the flow of this thicker blood - increasing the risk of a clotting event. But looking at all the research, your risk of a thrombotic event are NOT higher if this increase is caused by AIE and you have no pre-existing conditions such Factor V Leiden (which is a genetic mutation that affects one of the proteins involved in blood clotting Factor V). BUT even with a condition like Factor V   HCT itself, is a NOT clotting factor.
Virchow's Triad describes the three factors necessary for a thrombotic event (formation of a blood clot)   1) Hypercoagulability (an increase in clotting factors   e.g. Factor V); 2) Stasis of flow (reduced blood flow   this is the concern with high HCT); and 3) Vascular injury (from direct injury or a plaque rupture due to coronary vascular disease). Even conceding that a small increase in HCT increases blood viscosity (this requires ignoring issues with how blood viscosity is measured)   that is still only ONE of the THREE required factors.
A 2017 meta-analysis examining HCT and thrombotic events in patients ON TRT found NO significant increase in venous thromboembolism (VTE) risk in men with elevated HCT UNLESS other risk factors (ie - immobility, surgery, or genetic predisposition) were present. I have found NO long-term studies demonstrating any benefit from phlebotomy in patients with AIE and any results are extremely TEMPORARY.
When you donate blood, you decrease your blood volume by ~500mL and you lose about 250mg of iron. The plasma (the liquid portion of blood) is replenished within 24-48 hours by just hydrating. The replacing of HCT can take 3-4 weeks depending on erythropoietin levels (EPO is increased by TRT). However, the iron levels take longer because it relies on dietary iron absorption and mobilization from stored iron (ferritin). As you continue to donate you deplete the ferritin stores of iron and iron recovery depends on dietary intake and this can take 12 or more weeks depending how rich your diet is in iron and how well you absorb it. Typically, we see HCT return the pre donation level or higher within a few weeks - well before typical donation is recommended. We also have clear empirical data showing the increased risk of iron deficient anemia caused by regular blood donation - this outcome should be clearly expected.
How high can HCT get before you should worry? Many clinicians will typically worry as soon it is above range (~>50% for men) But this in not supported in the research. This research (several animal and in vitro studies) suggests there is a clear inflection point after a 33% increase HCT over baseline. At the inflection point we see blood pressure rise = as the endothelial tissue can no longer accommodate the increases in RBCs. Example - a baseline HCT is 45%, then 60% marks the inflection when BP increases dramatically. A couple important notes - these are animal or in-vitro studies and these studies raise HCT by reducing plasma volume, not increasing RBC mass. This is similar to an increase in HCT after severe dehydration which complicates the comparison. Also the rise in BP and vascular resistance is nonlinear, and only becomes problematic when compensatory mechanisms (e.g., endothelial elasticity, N.O. release) are overwhelmed.
Since the provider needs to cover their butt - clinical guidelines tend to be rather conservative, flagging >52% in men as a risk threshold due to associations with stroke, thrombosis, and cardiovascular events - not because the evidence demonstrates this, but a level at which their insurance providers/lawyers are satisfied reduces liability.
As I remember yours is 56 - Is yours too high? That depend s on what you are experiencing. Do you have a complicating condition (a clotting condition, high platelets, sleep apea)? Where was your preTRT HCT baseline? Were you hydrated at time of testing? How is your BP? Has it increased? Are you experiencing any symptoms (shortness of breath, headaches, blurry vision, facial pressure)? If you are symptomatic, I think you should address it BUT phlebotomy is a very temporary "fix" and will likely lead to a rebound to an even higher level as he body experiences a donation as a hemorrhage. You can try lowering your dosage but the increase in HCT is generally not a linear increase with TT levels. Make sure you stay well hydrated - the highest my HCT has ever been was after a severe bout of the flu and even then I had no symptoms.
AIE is a predictable, adaptive response to TRT. Elevated HCT alone is not inherently dangerous in otherwise healthy men. Phlebotomy is not a recommended treatment - dose adjustment and clinical context matter far more than chasing a lab cutoff.

Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:
I have been off trt for almost three months now and it sucks. Trt was the best thing I did going into my 40’s. My health insurance does not cover it so had to always pay out of pocket. Money is tight right now as I paid off all my credit cards. Hoping to get back on trt eventually though. Just been getting my ass kicked with money. Going from a low 300’s to over 1000 when it was all said and done felt like a brand new life. Of course there was a bunch of adjustments made to get dialed in for that

Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:
I have been off trt for almost three months now and it sucks. Trt was the best thing I did going into my 40’s. My health insurance does not cover it so had to always pay out of pocket. Money is tight right now as I paid off all my credit cards. Hoping to get back on trt eventually though. Just been getting my ass kicked with money. Going from a low 300’s to over 1000 when it was all said and done felt like a brand new life. Of course there was a bunch of adjustments made to get dialed in for that

Originally Posted By AWMCoalition:


Use Google,  you can get UGl  tested for a year for $100.

Originally Posted By 300BR:
I am currently pinning 35mg Thigh IM Test Cyp EOD with 25ga 1" needle.  About 33% of the time I hit a nerve or get deep muscle pain.  Gemini is suggesting that I switch to an insulin syringe and inject Sub-Q.  Is this AI bullshit or is this a viable option for me?

Originally Posted By 300BR:
I am currently pinning 35mg Thigh IM Test Cyp EOD with 25ga 1" needle.  About 33% of the time I hit a nerve or get deep muscle pain.  Gemini is suggesting that I switch to an insulin syringe and inject Sub-Q.  Is this AI bullshit or is this a viable option for me.

Originally Posted By Turok:

Unfortunately, no. I had a major surgery earlier this summer and had to take a couple months off from the gym and pretty much everything else.

After I was recovered enough, I went back to work on some home renovation/construction projects. Doing some drywall repairs and painting along with building a new deck. That seems to have aggravated tennis elbow in both arms. But unlike previous times when I’ve had it, it’s not going away even with the recommended PT. The only thing really different compared to previous flareups is being on T.

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
@300BR


It's not AI BS.  It will work. A 27 gauge 1/2" works ok, takes 45 seconds to 1 minute to load.   The only difference is the absorption rate between IM and Sub-Q is different, sub-q is slower absorption but same long term results.  

There are other IM locations that you can use an insulin pin.   I use deltoids, nearly painless with an insulin pin, and now to ventral glute.  There are diagrams at this link of where those spots are.  https://remotephcmanuals.com.au/document/37364.html