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Posted: 3/12/2015 10:54:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks:
Can't say because it depends on the decision by the judge as to what relief Hollis would get and why. Some variations: 1. There is no provision in law to revoke an approved stamp and registration (contention between "it was a mistake" and ATF correcting the error vs. Nolo showing that at least 4 different ATF employees had to give approvals for Hollis and Watson to get stamps and whatever other policies come out in discovery or Nolo already has) Hollis gets his stamp back and weapon, those other trusts not approved then sue for equal treatment and here we go again. 2. Court rules that trusts are not persons for the purposes of the Hughes amendment, and thus any trust may now make a machinegun. No laws are overturned, and things go as they did pre Hughes for trusts. 2A issues are litigated later when an individual sue to make a machinegun, directly challenging Hughes et. al. 3. Court rules that Hughes in a ban of a class of weapons, which is not permitted by the 2A. NFA items go back to the way they were pre Hughes and anyone can now form 1 and make a NFA machinegun after approval. 4. Court rules NFA and Hughes unconstitutional infringements of the 2A, applying strict scrutiny, and and no more tax stamps, machineguns, short barreled rifels, etc. are treated the same as any other firearm under law.. In case, of 3 or 4 the order would likely to be stayed, pending appeal heard by the circuit court. 1 and 2 would probably also get appealed, but the court might not stay that order ... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
So...how would this work if we win.....I file form 1, it gets approved, then I can take my ARs to a gunsmith to have the receiver modified and assembled with a FA fire control group?? Can't say because it depends on the decision by the judge as to what relief Hollis would get and why. Some variations: 1. There is no provision in law to revoke an approved stamp and registration (contention between "it was a mistake" and ATF correcting the error vs. Nolo showing that at least 4 different ATF employees had to give approvals for Hollis and Watson to get stamps and whatever other policies come out in discovery or Nolo already has) Hollis gets his stamp back and weapon, those other trusts not approved then sue for equal treatment and here we go again. 2. Court rules that trusts are not persons for the purposes of the Hughes amendment, and thus any trust may now make a machinegun. No laws are overturned, and things go as they did pre Hughes for trusts. 2A issues are litigated later when an individual sue to make a machinegun, directly challenging Hughes et. al. 3. Court rules that Hughes in a ban of a class of weapons, which is not permitted by the 2A. NFA items go back to the way they were pre Hughes and anyone can now form 1 and make a NFA machinegun after approval. 4. Court rules NFA and Hughes unconstitutional infringements of the 2A, applying strict scrutiny, and and no more tax stamps, machineguns, short barreled rifels, etc. are treated the same as any other firearm under law.. In case, of 3 or 4 the order would likely to be stayed, pending appeal heard by the circuit court. 1 and 2 would probably also get appealed, but the court might not stay that order ... You forgot one. 5. Court doesn't grant any relief. Status quo is maintained. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 10:59:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jmo371]
[#2]
Go get em Nolo
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:00:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MattEbert87]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
No. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
#33 Motion to Compel Defendants to Participate in Rule 26(f) Conference Is this the "game changer" to which you alluded? No. Your crpytic answers make me wonder if you were trained to hold confidential information even through waterboarding. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:01:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattEbert87:
Your crpytic answers make me wonder if you were trained to hold confidential information even through waterboarding. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattEbert87:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
#33 Motion to Compel Defendants to Participate in Rule 26(f) Conference Is this the "game changer" to which you alluded? No. Your crpytic answers make me wonder if you were trained to hold confidential information even through waterboarding. That's not cryptic. You asked a yes/no question and I answered it! |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:07:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
That's not cryptic. You asked a yes/no question and I answered it! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By MattEbert87:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
#33 Motion to Compel Defendants to Participate in Rule 26(f) Conference Is this the "game changer" to which you alluded? No. Your crpytic answers make me wonder if you were trained to hold confidential information even through waterboarding. That's not cryptic. You asked a yes/no question and I answered it! True, we're all on the edges of our seats awaiting the nuclear explosion you're about to drop on DC. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:10:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NoloContendere]
[#6]
I'll drop a not so subtle hint.
A large organization is getting involved. How is that? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:14:38 PM EDT
[#7]
I was wondering, and I may have missed it; if so I'm sorry, but when the atf rescinded these stamps, did they reimburse the now plaintiffs?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:16:54 PM EDT
[#8]
does NOLO have enough beer? cause if not we need to organize a massive beer drop!
NOLO, I am a 2L. Reading your threads makes me happy to trudge through this! Thank you! |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:16:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? Dose that mean NRA? |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:16:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:19:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By COLTGOLDCUP:
Dose that mean NRA? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By COLTGOLDCUP:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? Dose that mean NRA? 
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:19:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
(2) Conference Content; Parties’ Responsibilities. In conferring, the parties must consider the nature and basis of their claims and defenses and the possibilities for promptly settling or resolving the case; make or arrange for the disclosures required by Rule 26(a)(1); discuss any issues about preserving discoverable information; and develop a proposed discovery plan. The attorneys of record and all unrepresented parties that have appeared in the case are jointly responsible for arranging the conference, for attempting in good faith to agree on the proposed discovery plan, and for submitting to the court within 14 days after the conference a written report outlining the plan. The court may order the parties or attorneys to attend the conference in person. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
#33 Motion to Compel Defendants to Participate in Rule 26(f) Conference So that's a pre-trial hashing out by the counsels of both sides to see if an agreement can be made that everyone can live with to avoid a drawn out case, or am I misunderstanding?  (2) Conference Content; Parties’ Responsibilities. In conferring, the parties must consider the nature and basis of their claims and defenses and the possibilities for promptly settling or resolving the case; make or arrange for the disclosures required by Rule 26(a)(1); discuss any issues about preserving discoverable information; and develop a proposed discovery plan. The attorneys of record and all unrepresented parties that have appeared in the case are jointly responsible for arranging the conference, for attempting in good faith to agree on the proposed discovery plan, and for submitting to the court within 14 days after the conference a written report outlining the plan. The court may order the parties or attorneys to attend the conference in person. lol (26(a) (ii) a copy—or a description by category and location—of all documents, electronically stored information, and tangible things that the disclosing party has in its possession, custody, or control and may use to support its claims or defenses, unless the use would be solely for impeachment; |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:20:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:21:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By banjoboss:
ACLU maybe? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By banjoboss:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:25:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Lol. No. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Originally Posted By banjoboss: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No.  |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:25:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX:
So 1 or 2 have your trust ready and get ready to donate a stamps worth for a class action? 3 or 4 Katie bar the door? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX:
Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
So...how would this work if we win.....I file form 1, it gets approved, then I can take my ARs to a gunsmith to have the receiver modified and assembled with a FA fire control group?? Can't say because it depends on the decision by the judge as to what relief Hollis would get and why. Some variations: 1. There is no provision in law to revoke an approved stamp and registration (contention between "it was a mistake" and ATF correcting the error vs. Nolo showing that at least 4 different ATF employees had to give approvals for Hollis and Watson to get stamps and whatever other policies come out in discovery or Nolo already has) Hollis gets his stamp back and weapon, those other trusts not approved then sue for equal treatment and here we go again. 2. Court rules that trusts are not persons for the purposes of the Hughes amendment, and thus any trust may now make a machinegun. No laws are overturned, and things go as they did pre Hughes for trusts. 2A issues are litigated later when an individual sue to make a machinegun, directly challenging Hughes et. al. 3. Court rules that Hughes in a ban of a class of weapons, which is not permitted by the 2A. NFA items go back to the way they were pre Hughes and anyone can now form 1 and make a NFA machinegun after approval. 4. Court rules NFA and Hughes unconstitutional infringements of the 2A, applying strict scrutiny, and and no more tax stamps, machineguns, short barreled rifels, etc. are treated the same as any other firearm under law.. In case, of 3 or 4 the order would likely to be stayed, pending appeal heard by the circuit court. 1 and 2 would probably also get appealed, but the court might not stay that order ... So 1 or 2 have your trust ready and get ready to donate a stamps worth for a class action? 3 or 4 Katie bar the door? I already have my Form1 denial letter. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:27:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeCoastie:
SPLC then? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeCoastie:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By banjoboss:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. Nope. NAACP. Cause they believe if freedom. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:30:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Nolo, you should file a sur-sur-sur-sur-reply and just copy/paste the sur-sur-sur-reply except change the names/parties around.
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:31:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: oldsgm]
[#19]
Nolo,
I hope you prevail in this matter. For the record I am not a lawyer but I am currently in my 18th month of litigation with my neighbor (and my legal fees have exceeded the value of the property in question) with no end in sight. I appreciate all the filings you have made public so that others can follow along. Many of your links and procedural issues have a decidedly familiar appearance to me. When dealing with legal issues there are two guarantees. One, it will take longer than you think, and Two it will be much more expensive than you think. For a frame of reference a lawyer here in Utah get $250 per hour. A single 8 hour day is $2K. I think that the folks here ought to realize that there are federal DOJ employees or other individuals who are following this thread and recording every posting that Nolo makes either in response to someone or giving an information update about, and that information is being forwarded to a lawyer someplace to be scrutinized for use of that information stop this suit. Nolo is being circumspect because he has to. I hope he prevails so I have the freedom to choose whether or not to buy a weapon with a happy switch, a freedom I am currently denied because I am too poor to pay $25K for a M16a1 like I carried in the Great Southeast Asian Unpleasantness of the 1970's. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:33:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By funshot: Nope. NAACP. Cause they believe if freedom. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By funshot: Originally Posted By JoeCoastie: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: Originally Posted By banjoboss: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. Nope. NAACP. Cause they believe if freedom. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:34:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MattEbert87]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? DOJ? BATFE? DHS? |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:38:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MattEbert87]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben:
ASPCA ? We should get Sarah McLaghlan to sing about poor abandoned Machine Guns in decrepit military warehouses. |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:48:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? NAMBLA? |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:49:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
NAMBLA? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? NAMBLA? Brady Center for the Prevention of Gun Violence? |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:51:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeCoastie:
SPLC then? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeCoastie:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By banjoboss:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. That, or the administrators over at Subguns...
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:59:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Lol. No. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Originally Posted By banjoboss: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. NAGR. |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:00:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
NAMBLA? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? NAMBLA? PETA. 
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:01:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77:
NAGR. Please |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:10:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattEbert87: We should get Sarah McLachlan to sing about poor abandoned Machine Guns in decrepit military warehouses. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattEbert87: Originally Posted By m35ben: ASPCA ? We should get Sarah McLachlan to sing about poor abandoned Machine Guns in decrepit military warehouses. |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:22:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Numenor]
[#30]
Sucks to be the ATF.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:31:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? Weight Watchers? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jcriley]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dlshady:
That, or the administrators over at Subguns...
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dlshady:
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By banjoboss:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. That, or the administrators over at Subguns...
Ouch. I've got to admit, that one made me chuckle. Actually it made me LOL.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:42:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Monoz:
Weight Watchers? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Monoz:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? Weight Watchers? Now that's f'n funny! |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:48:13 AM EDT
[#34]
AR15.com
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:56:44 AM EDT
[#35]
I dunno what is going to happen, but IMO if any aspect of this case "works" in our favor in the end, Nolo will be in the running for greatest arfcommer of all time. I am just one of millions of 2A lovers that is frustrated by our own inability to help move the ball forward in the courts. So when I see cases like this, and like Heller etc. it warms the heart! Me thinks it's PAST time I make some donations...
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:58:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Beach]
[#36]
My $$$ is on GOA...NRA can suck that 22" King Kong Dildo mentioned earlier...
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:05:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? DAM YOUR GOOD |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:13:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
#33 Motion to Compel Defendants to Participate in Rule 26(f) Conference Is it normal for the feds to require a court to force them into absolutely routine matters? Unlike the Attorney General, will a judge force consequences on a US attorney for contempt if they tell the court to stuff it? |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:30:02 AM EDT
[#39]
Love all this. Any updates on the Watson case what it's waiting on?
And this conference can it be recorded? If so posting it up after would be so nice. (If possible) |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:40:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
Please Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By dmnoid77:
NAGR. Please True, true ...... Please , but for .33 cents a day .... And you can win a rifle made of unobtainaium and jeep painted with Eagles (that we have to give away because members called us out on spending money on an expensive jeep at the same time Colorado was rolling over and we were not ready). No compromise, in fact we were not even there..... Just like the last time .....
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:43:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DstryrOfWrlds:
AR15.com Indeed and we shall continue to give, support and back Nolo and this case to the finish line. Just that simple. |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:45:21 AM EDT
[#42]
I can tell you that Michael Bloomberg and George Soros have agreed to finance Nolo.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:55:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77:
NAGR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By banjoboss:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. NAGR. 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 2:07:00 AM EDT
[#44]
I've never had a 26(f) conference in person. It's always been over the phone. Why on earth would your lawyer offer to incur travel expenses to have the conference? It's just a discussion to fill out a form for the Court for case management purposes. I must be missing something. |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 2:28:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OFCCDave: I've never had a 26(f) conference in person. It's always been over the phone. Why on earth would your lawyer offer to incur travel expenses to have the conference? It's just a discussion to fill out a form for the Court for case management purposes. I must be missing something. |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 2:39:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Beach]
[#46]
I dont think NOLO wants to miss a chance to piss on the BATFE or DOJs leg...in their yard...
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 2:50:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Some AUSAs have that effect on people for sure. |
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Posted: 3/13/2015 3:51:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Lol. No. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By banjoboss:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I'll drop a not so subtle hint. A large organization is getting involved. How is that? ACLU maybe? Lol. No. Sad thing is, this is exactly the sort of fight the ACLU should be fighting "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States." |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2015 6:43:20 AM EDT
[#49]
Another day another dollar...... Can't wait to hear of more progress!
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Posted: 3/13/2015 6:53:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Seems like NOLO just keeps piling it on
And I like it 
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