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Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:35:23 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By eesmith:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Originally Posted By eesmith:
Guys, there's a war on and it sucks. But nothing that is happening over there graphs onto domestic politics, and it doesn't work that way even if you force it.



But it does because THEY run everything and Putin is just a pawn to those people and I spend all my time researching it and have made it an intrinsic part of my personality so now everything must be connected to that....


By over there I'm assuming you're not in Europe anymore.
Leaving Warsaw now:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/4A0C63DA-0F64-4CF9-9080-04F470870929-2317353.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/A1A7B966-9253-4459-92A2-A177DB4E357B-2316532.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/34DF84C0-E1BE-4DC8-B403-2E16AAFDF8C2-2316527.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/1E0C21F8-1B0F-4358-B514-E445BB33F486-2316528.jpg



why are you leaving?
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:36:28 AM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By Spade:


POLISH LITHUANIAN COMMENWEALTH AND FRIENDS
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Originally Posted By Spade:
Originally Posted By Javak:
Originally Posted By JamesP81:
Originally Posted By BerettaGuy:



More info from UKRInform:

President’s Office: Ukraine wants to end war by forming coalition able to stop Russia in future

17.03.2022 16:37
Ukraine intends to end the war with the Russian Federation by forming a new international security coalition.

“What matters to us is not status, but allies who are really ready to fight alongside us. The invasion of Ukraine has shown that the whole architecture of European security must be reconsidered. We know that Putin can only be stopped by force. NATO does not have that force. In our opinion, this is an organization whose main activity is to organize summits where the generals show that they are cool… So we want to end this war with a new coalition, so powerful that it will be able to stop Russia if it wants to attack someone again," Mykhailo Podolyak, Adviser to the Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, said in an interview with the Wiadomości Polish newspaper, Ukrinform reports.

He explained that the basis of the coalition would be fundamentally different from the Budapest Memorandum but would provide a specific condition in line with all the rules of international law. According to the Adviser to the Head of the President’s Office, the document will describe the mechanisms that should be implemented if an attack on Ukraine occurs again. "We want to make sure that we will not be left alone on the battlefield again. The guarantor states will make certain commitments. In the future, this document can be developed and underpin a completely new alliance to ensure security all over Europe," Podolyak added.

He declined to name the states that expressed readiness to join the coalition as talks continue. At the same time, the representative of the President’s Office assured that President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky would present the whole concept when they ended.

In addition, Podolyak noted that the formation of the coalition was one of the key topics of the meeting of the President of Ukraine with Prime Minister of Poland Mateusz Morawiecki, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic Petr Fiala, and Prime Minister of Slovenia Janez Janša in Kyiv on March 15.

Podolyak stressed that Poland's accession to the new union was very important for Ukraine. "Poland is one of Ukraine's best friends today. We are infinitely grateful for the help provided and we believe that Poland and Ukraine should participate together in all negotiations on security in Europe," he said.

On February 24, Russian president Vladimir Putin announced the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine. Russian troops destroy key infrastructure, massively shell residential areas of Ukrainian cities and villages using artillery, multiple launch rocket systems, and ballistic missiles.


Poland, Ukraine, Czechia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.  Most likely.

Warsaw Pact II: Electric Boogaloo


POLISH LITHUANIAN COMMENWEALTH AND FRIENDS


So, basically all NATO members but UKR?

Poland-NATO
Czechia-NATO
Estonia-NATO
Latvia-NATO
Lithuania-NATO

I see a common theme among those countries...
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:37:24 AM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By hiyaboa:
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This will continue. Our nukes are a deterrent, but Biden isn't. He won't ever use them, and they know it.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:39:58 AM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By planemaker:


This is just complete crap. None of that is true.
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Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Originally Posted By Voland:
Originally Posted By kncook:


ZeroHedge is Russian owned.



You keep saying that... but whats your proof?
It's not Russian owned, it's a Russia-friendly Kremlin amplifier. The owners father was a state-friendly journalist in Communist Bulgaria.  Multiple analyses of content on Zerohedge have demonstrated that it propagates Russia friendly stories through its content referrer network much more often than other sites. That could be due to the owner's Russia-friendly bias, or it could be due to an arrangement.  The problem with these alt-news sites is that they lack any transparency, have no editorial oversight and no publicly available owner or interest data. At least with shills like WaPo and the NYT, they are transparent enough that you know which interests they are pushing.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/124774/1D97CFAC-D140-4B8C-A888-63C17AFD7FF8-2316045.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/124774/CFFAAE6B-E1E5-427A-8C89-3BF71290056B-2316047.jpg


This is just complete crap. None of that is true.


Don’t be so sure.
I read Zerohedge regularly and extensively several years back.  I ultimately came to the conclusion that it was probably an influence operation.  Why?  First, because they got called out multiple times by readers for blatantly manipulating data (like using a log scale without indicting that) to support whatever doomporn they were pushing in that article.  I also noticed that they frequently did not show any internal consistency in their arguments.  For example in one article they would be all for a strict libertarian approach and in the next call that foolish and be all for authoritarianism.  Frequently that would happen within the same article.
The point of the article was always to sow doom and discord.  Sowing discord is a well-known and viable tactic, and discord is it’s own end.  You don’t need to be consistent if your audience is not calling you out on it.
I stopped reading and haven’t looked back.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:40:15 AM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

I'm sorry, you are whom?

ETA: Oh, that's right. You're one of the Russian propagandists the site staff allows to keep stinking up the place...

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/2022-03-18_1-33-29_jpg-2317355.JPG
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one more thing you would be wrong about
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:41:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eesmith] [#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By j_hooker:
@eesmith
When or where will you do a right up of your experience in UA?  Looking forward to reading it
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I've got some podcasts and interviews on my substack, I'll be writing some longer pieces on the flight home.

https://contextualinsurgent.substack.com/p/ukraine-chronicles-3-father-roman

I have some more podcasts on anchor:

https://anchor.fm/erin-sith/episodes/Ukraine-Edition-6-Funeral-Mass--talk-with-a-Legionnaire-e1fpmlv

I did another talk with Benjamin Boyce on his YouTube channel, it should be out within a day or so.

Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:46:12 AM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By goneshootin:


Interesting. Fox News just said Zelensky will no longer speak of the weapons support he's receiving, he'd rather just surprise the Russians. And he will no longer speak of peace terms publicly. They're better off done in private.

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3 weeks later and they finally decide to go on the dl. That’s the one thing I was questioning since the start in that it was widely known what and how many arms were flowing into the country.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:46:38 AM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By AROKIE:



why are you leaving?
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Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By eesmith:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Originally Posted By eesmith:
Guys, there's a war on and it sucks. But nothing that is happening over there graphs onto domestic politics, and it doesn't work that way even if you force it.



But it does because THEY run everything and Putin is just a pawn to those people and I spend all my time researching it and have made it an intrinsic part of my personality so now everything must be connected to that....


By over there I'm assuming you're not in Europe anymore.
Leaving Warsaw now:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/4A0C63DA-0F64-4CF9-9080-04F470870929-2317353.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/A1A7B966-9253-4459-92A2-A177DB4E357B-2316532.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/34DF84C0-E1BE-4DC8-B403-2E16AAFDF8C2-2316527.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/1E0C21F8-1B0F-4358-B514-E445BB33F486-2316528.jpg



why are you leaving?
I had two weeks, worked out to be about 9 days in country with lost luggage, delays, and transit. I'll likely be back soon, we're working on nonprofit stuff and sourcing more stuff domestically.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 1:48:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:09:38 AM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By dillydilly:

3 weeks later and they finally decide to go on the dl. That’s the one thing I was questioning since the start in that it was widely known what and how many arms were flowing into the country.
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Originally Posted By dillydilly:
Originally Posted By goneshootin:


Interesting. Fox News just said Zelensky will no longer speak of the weapons support he's receiving, he'd rather just surprise the Russians. And he will no longer speak of peace terms publicly. They're better off done in private.


3 weeks later and they finally decide to go on the dl. That’s the one thing I was questioning since the start in that it was widely known what and how many arms were flowing into the country.


There's always going to be knuckleheads in positions of power tweeting about things they shouldn't be. But I like this bit of information (propaganda) because it insinuates a strong kick to Russia's vulva that forces them to the adult table for talks.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:14:00 AM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By eesmith:
I've got some podcasts and interviews on my substack, I'll be writing some longer pieces on the flight home.

https://contextualinsurgent.substack.com/p/ukraine-chronicles-3-father-roman

I have some more podcasts on anchor:

https://anchor.fm/erin-sith/episodes/Ukraine-Edition-6-Funeral-Mass--talk-with-a-Legionnaire-e1fpmlv

I did another talk with Benjamin Boyce on his YouTube channel, it should be out within a day or so.

View Quote

Thanks ! Also I need a correction- write up* (typing at midnight with a melatonin in my system
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:28:48 AM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By Capta:


Don’t be so sure.
I read Zerohedge regularly and extensively several years back.  I ultimately came to the conclusion that it was probably an influence operation.  Why?  First, because they got called out multiple times by readers for blatantly manipulating data (like using a log scale without indicting that) to support whatever doomporn they were pushing in that article.  I also noticed that they frequently did not show any internal consistency in their arguments.  For example in one article they would be all for a strict libertarian approach and in the next call that foolish and be all for authoritarianism.  Frequently that would happen within the same article.
The point of the article was always to sow doom and discord.  Sowing discord is a well-known and viable tactic, and discord is it’s own end.  You don’t need to be consistent if your audience is not calling you out on it.
I stopped reading and haven’t looked back.
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Well, I'm not fancy like that.  I've just listened to what Russians say and translate it.  And when I read ZeroHedge I think, that's Russians it is.  I've never tried to validate beyond that.  That's pre-Trump.  Like a lot of propaganda sources, they set the hook by telling you things your own government won't; but then they expand on that. Even if you have really good sources, and I'm OK there, it is still tough to sort.

I mean, I didn't even realize that ZeroHedge was a Russian front was a contested idea in GD.  So, there's that.  But it is and has been, pre-Trump and you can go back and read it here.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:34:52 AM EDT
[#13]

Apologies if it's a repeat.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:44:39 AM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By wyomingnick:



The west being running by Biden and leftist democrats would never consider that. I guess its possible England and France could do it, but they'll have to take the lead on it.
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The level of outrage and anger amongst the formerly anti-war left is beyond anything I've ever seen. These are the same people who viciously protested against the GWoT, and now they want Russian blood. At this point anything is open for consideration. This is exacerbated by the obvious fact that Biden is not pulling any strings, and our rule is probably by committee behind the curtains.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:47:05 AM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By ecophon:

Apologies if it's a repeat.
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That sir, is worth a repeat
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 2:48:31 AM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By ARx3:


I had one(Semi) and sold it. Fun gun !!

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18024/RPK74_jpg-2317341.JPG
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Some of the better $700 I spent

Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:03:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Shistavan] [#17]
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Originally Posted By mancat:



The level of outrage and anger amongst the formerly anti-war left is beyond anything I've ever seen. These are the same people who viciously protested against the GWoT, and now they want Russian blood. At this point anything is open for consideration. This is exacerbated by the obvious fact that Biden is not pulling any strings, and our rule is probably by committee behind the curtains.
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Originally Posted By mancat:
Originally Posted By wyomingnick:



The west being running by Biden and leftist democrats would never consider that. I guess its possible England and France could do it, but they'll have to take the lead on it.



The level of outrage and anger amongst the formerly anti-war left is beyond anything I've ever seen. These are the same people who viciously protested against the GWoT, and now they want Russian blood. At this point anything is open for consideration. This is exacerbated by the obvious fact that Biden is not pulling any strings, and our rule is probably by committee behind the curtains.


To be fair, Russia started a war, I would expect anti-war folks to want Russian blood for that. Just like they wanted the blood of those who started the GWoT.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:05:57 AM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By bikedamon:


Find it yourself.  Or don't, I don't give a shit.  MTG is a giant fucking tard and anyone who carries water for her is beyond helping, convincing, or even communicating with really.  She is embarrassingly stupid to a level that is only exceeded by those dumb enough to believe her or defend her.

I learned in one of the latest Tucker Carlson threads that even piles of video evidence showing them saying exactly what was claimed isn't enough so I won't bother with the Putin fellating moron MTG either.
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Please start a thread for this stupid shit.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:08:10 AM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By mancat:



The level of outrage and anger amongst the formerly anti-war left is beyond anything I've ever seen. These are the same people who viciously protested against the GWoT, and now they want Russian blood. At this point anything is open for consideration. This is exacerbated by the obvious fact that Biden is not pulling any strings, and our rule is probably by committee behind the curtains.
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Originally Posted By mancat:
Originally Posted By wyomingnick:



The west being running by Biden and leftist democrats would never consider that. I guess its possible England and France could do it, but they'll have to take the lead on it.



The level of outrage and anger amongst the formerly anti-war left is beyond anything I've ever seen. These are the same people who viciously protested against the GWoT, and now they want Russian blood. At this point anything is open for consideration. This is exacerbated by the obvious fact that Biden is not pulling any strings, and our rule is probably by committee behind the curtains.


I guess you have a point with that, but I really don't see the leftist in power having the balls for that. I think its pretty unlikely.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:16:59 AM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By planemaker:


What drivel. I provided the information that the chart being touted as being produced by the Rand Corp was not. Further, I explained why the leftist PropOrNot chart was misleading by explaining the difference between articles written by other authors, including those on the right, and the indigenous writers within the web site. Further, 30 seconds of looking would have told any competent person why trusting the PropOrNot team would be a bad idea: PropOrNot's grandiose fabrications and Even the WaPo doesn't believe them and The Intercept article

As I said previously, you can remain ignorant if you so choose. I'm done discussing this topic.
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Please take this shit elsewhere.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:21:41 AM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By FrankyRay:
With Ukraine being a major exporter of wheat, you'd think this would be a major concern for the whole world.

Ukraine war: Russia blocks ships carrying grain exports

"Up to 300 ships have been stopped by Russian forces from departing the Black Sea, leaving one of the key global trade routes for grain virtually blocked. The fertile region is known as 'the world's breadbasket.'"

They can't seriously expect to get away with this for very long.
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We need to stop using food for fuel.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:22:41 AM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

At no point was the chart "touted" as being RAND produced. It's pretty clearly labeled as to where they sourced the data (in those annotations I mentioned). Are you saying RAND is incapable of vetting the information it includes in its own studies?

As an aside, your using one of the listed sites as an ostensibly objective refutation of said study is beyond laughable - "We have investigated ourselves and cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing."

Once again, rando on the internet with the power of Google or a think tank charged with shaping national security policy going back 70+ years. Certainly a hard choice for the objective reader...

With the corner you've painted yourself into, I can clearly see why you keep trying to hastily distance yourself from this conversation. Resume your absorption of Russian propaganda as fact at your own peril, just don't try and convince everyone else it's unassailable fact.
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Can you guys take your dick slapping elsewhere.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:26:32 AM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By lorazepam:

We need to stop using food for fuel.
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Eh, that's a 10% increase at best here in fuel or food.  You'll still eat and drive.  Sucks to be African though as that's the prime purchaser of Russian and Ukrainian wheat.  Probably a lot of instability there going forward.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:28:32 AM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:


Eh, that's a 10% increase at best here in fuel or food.  You'll still eat and drive.  Sucks to be African though as that's the prime purchaser of Russian and Ukrainian wheat.  Probably a lot of instability there going forward.
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Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

We need to stop using food for fuel.


Eh, that's a 10% increase at best here in fuel or food.  You'll still eat and drive.  Sucks to be African though as that's the prime purchaser of Russian and Ukrainian wheat.  Probably a lot of instability there going forward.


Africa and the Middle East both rely on it. This year's gonna be a doozy!
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:36:58 AM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By TheLurker:

Africa and the Middle East both rely on it. This year's gonna be a doozy!
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Well, they can always buy it in China with the yuan.  Because China exports so much wheat.  Play stupid currency war games, win stupid currency war prizes.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:37:49 AM EDT
[#26]
A quick 3 minute rundown on urban warfare techniques for defending Kyiv:

How to defend Kyiv, by an urban warfare expert
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:39:02 AM EDT
[#27]


Ukr Humvee in action
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:41:20 AM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:


Well, they can always buy it in China with the yuan.  Because China exports so much wheat.  Play stupid currency war games, win stupid currency war prizes.
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Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
Originally Posted By TheLurker:

Africa and the Middle East both rely on it. This year's gonna be a doozy!


Well, they can always buy it in China with the yuan.  Because China exports so much wheat.  Play stupid currency war games, win stupid currency war prizes.


Saw something suggesting China might not be exporting grain as it needs it for livestock. Don't know if accurate though.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 3:44:02 AM EDT
[#29]
They can ban it all they want, they are a net importer.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:04:54 AM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By lorazepam:

We need to stop using food for fuel.
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Yes.  If we had DJT in office, could he ask farmers to grow wheat instead of corn to make up for the global wheat deficit?
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:05:56 AM EDT
[#31]
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Originally Posted By OBird:


GD has completely lost its mind over this.

It’s both weird, and disturbing…the idiocy is shocking in both depth and breadth.
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Originally Posted By OBird:
Originally Posted By mnd6563:
I just learned on another GD thread that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is really about covering up the Clinton foundation sourcing child sex slaves in Ukraine along with bio lab experimentation related to the NWO wanting to reduce global populations.  

I think I'll just stick to this thread for the foreseeable future...


GD has completely lost its mind over this.

It’s both weird, and disturbing…the idiocy is shocking in both depth and breadth.


Its symptomatic of a larger societal issue. Three main factors at work:

1. 'Experts' are increasingly discredited, because so many 'Experts' across many fields (Gov/ecconomics/biz/health/science) have been proven to not only be wrong, but profoundly and terribly wrong. There are so many examples, but the easiest is the wealth of 'experts' who told us outsourcing to China would both improve the lives of Americans and usher in an increasingly democratic and friendly China...

2. The quality of Traditional Media has gone down massively. The Internet deprived most newspapers of their advertising/classifieds income, resulting in mass-layoffs of national newsrooms begining around 2000-01, and accelerating thereafter. Those laid off were typically the most experienced, older, better sourced and informed journalists (aka those with highest salaries) and they were broadly replaced with 20 somethings fresh out of journalism school. Journalism is something where experience and sources really matter...and 20 somethings dont have that.

This effect has then become magnified by the death of the print newspaper and the shift to online. When it comes to online advertising revenue, Quality doesnt matter, Clicks matter. A 20,000 word article on the history of NATO expansion or the realities of global energy supply, that gets 50k views, is worth less then an article called '10 reasons why reparations are good, and white people should pay for it' thats 500 words of nonsense but which gets 2 million rage clicks. This clickification results in ever greater sensationalism and ever less substance. Hence the new erra of Yellow Journalism, where clicks trump content, and everything is designed to make you rage click.

Lastly, the increased hiring of 20 somethings, fresh out of college, has created a ever more leftward swing in the newsrooms. This has both created ideological echo chambers that value 'safe spaces' over the free exchange of ideas (see the NYT uproar over having Tom Cotton do an op-ed), but it has also increasingly cut off 1/2 of America from traditional news sources, as they become so left biased that they are alienating.

3. The internet. The internet is a wealth of information...but not all of its true. And when you factor in points 1+2 (distrust of experts, distrust of traditional media) you create a massive demand for Alternative Media. Some of Alt Media is superb (Substack especially.) But a lot - especially those catering to the Right - is often terrible. The writers may be tards, they may be shills, they may be working for the ruskies, they may be false flagging for the left to discredit the right... you have no idea because most of them exist purely on the internet. And worse still, these guys have the same bills to pay as real newspapers, meaning they need clicks, meaning these AltMedia sources are just as incentivized to publish sensationalist nonsense to get clicks.

And people need, psychologically, to have an opinion about things.

So when you have someone who 1. distrusts experts due to hard experience 2. no longer trust the traditional media due to declining quality and ideological slant 3. now gets there information from Alternative Media thats of dubious quality (due to having the same core problem as traditional media minus the vetting) you get people believing a bunch of crazy, stupid shit.

Worse, the more of this crazy shit they believe, the more their minds are primed to believe and espouse even more crazy shit. And then this is made all the worse because occasionally some of this crazy shit promoted in AltMedia is true! (covid lab leak, NSA spying) which then backward and forward validates all the crazy shit that fits within that narrative and altmedia source.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:14:33 AM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By CharlieR:


A lot of people are badmouthing the Russians, and lets face it, they're doing pretty lousy...but if you took a US force and told them to drive, no aviation support, into s sea of MANPADS and javelins, at the timetable they are being pushed...there isnt a rabbit you can pull out of your hat.

I dont want to be one of the "tank is dead" advocates but Im not sure theres an army that could do a whole lot better if Europe and teh US pretty much dumped tehir AT weapons on the place to be invaded.
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Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


This. Even the US would take pretty horrific losses facing an insurgency armed with thousands of state of the art ATGMs and MANPADS.

Basically need every armored convoy to have a couple drones with thermal cameras scouting ahead an providing an anti-infantry umbrella, zapping anyone lurking near the convoys approach.


A lot of people are badmouthing the Russians, and lets face it, they're doing pretty lousy...but if you took a US force and told them to drive, no aviation support, into s sea of MANPADS and javelins, at the timetable they are being pushed...there isnt a rabbit you can pull out of your hat.

I dont want to be one of the "tank is dead" advocates but Im not sure theres an army that could do a whole lot better if Europe and teh US pretty much dumped tehir AT weapons on the place to be invaded.


Yeah I think theres two separate issues that are being conflated

Russian casualties = 90% the presence of ATGM/Stingers/Drones, 10% poor tactics and execution. If the Ukranians just had AK's and RPGs the russian casualties would be a fraction of what they are, even if the Ruskie tactics were the same. AKA not really Russias fault if we're being fair

Russian Invasion plan, equipment, and execution = 90% Russian incompetence, 10% the presence of advanced weapons. The plan was terrible, and the execution of the terrible plan was terrible. And the one thing that could have helped mitigate this - modern weapons like drones and PGM's - have been largely absent due to Russias military budget seeming to be straight up stolen at every single level.

Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:17:17 AM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By Balu:

And Yasser Arafat, and Al Gore, and...

The Nobel Peace Prize was turned into a sick joke a long time ago.
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Originally Posted By Balu:
Originally Posted By FrankyRay:
Originally Posted By nickmemphis:
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
A group of European politicians addressed the Nobel Committee with a corresponding open letter.

They asked the Nobel Committee to extend the nomination procedure for the Nobel Peace Prize until March 31, 2022, to allow for a Nobel Peace Prize nomination for President Zelensky and the people of Ukraine. Officially, the deadline for nomination for the award expired on January 31.

"We are witness to the courage of the people of Ukraine withstanding this war waged upon them by the Russian Federation. Brave Ukrainian men and women are fighting to preserve democracy and self-government. From the defiance democratically elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to the man with tears in his eyes saying goodbye to his family to fight for his country, people all over Ukraine are rising up to resist the forces of authoritarianism.

We believe that now is the time to show the people of Ukraine that the world is on their side," reads the letter.

The letter to the Nobel Committee was signed by 36 European politicians from the Netherlands, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Estonia, Bulgaria, Romania and Slovakia. The letter is open to co-sign by political leaders across the world until March 30th.
Zelensky may become a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize

He will not win.
1. He's fishbelly white, and fairly close to the actual Caucusus range which is probably equivalent to some sort of super duper whiteness is likely how the Nobel committee that does the soft awards like peace sees it. Like, Obama won it before he even took office just for being black.
2. LOL

Yeah, I considered the Nobel Peace Prize to have lost all legitimacy when Obama got it.

And Yasser Arafat, and Al Gore, and...

The Nobel Peace Prize was turned into a sick joke a long time ago.


I mean, it's kind of a sick joke to begin with, in that it's founded by the inventor of modern high explosives, who felt guilty that he had helped usher in an era of explosive violence that left millions dead.

A modern equally absurd comparison would be something called the Kalashnikov Peace Prize...
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:22:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:


The thing you're missing is that we would not send a US force without air support into a sea of javelins.

That's sorta the whole point. Your whole premise is flawed. It's like saying "if the American military was retarded and has piss poor training and planning then we would take a lot of casualties too".

Yeah that's why we're not retarded and train and plan.
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


This. Even the US would take pretty horrific losses facing an insurgency armed with thousands of state of the art ATGMs and MANPADS.

Basically need every armored convoy to have a couple drones with thermal cameras scouting ahead an providing an anti-infantry umbrella, zapping anyone lurking near the convoys approach.


A lot of people are badmouthing the Russians, and lets face it, they're doing pretty lousy...but if you took a US force and told them to drive, no aviation support, into s sea of MANPADS and javelins, at the timetable they are being pushed...there isnt a rabbit you can pull out of your hat.

I dont want to be one of the "tank is dead" advocates but Im not sure theres an army that could do a whole lot better if Europe and teh US pretty much dumped tehir AT weapons on the place to be invaded.


The thing you're missing is that we would not send a US force without air support into a sea of javelins.

That's sorta the whole point. Your whole premise is flawed. It's like saying "if the American military was retarded and has piss poor training and planning then we would take a lot of casualties too".

Yeah that's why we're not retarded and train and plan.


Air support would be pretty useless once entering any of the cities, due to the Fire From Enclosure ability of the Javelin. A guy firing from the 7th floor of a 20 story apartment block into a M1 Abrams will not be spotted until after the missile is gone, and its debatable if the US would vaporize a 20 story occupied apartment building for a single Jav shooter.

Not to mention of course is the US has had 20 years of being ambushed by RPG shooters, without air support being a given counter to that threat. Its not like every patrol in Iraq or Afghanistan had a personal drone flying persistent overwatch to protect the unit - which is what the US would need in a Ukraine+ATGM type scenario.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:24:28 AM EDT
[#35]
I'd call this a pretty significant Putin tell.  After threatening for the past two weeks that Russia would make interest payments in roubles on their government U.S. dollar denominated bond debt, they paid as required in U.S. Dollars (U.S $117 million payment).  That's very rational long term view economic behavior that acknowledges a significant current and long term future need for Western capital investment inside Russia.  Paying in roubles  vs. the required U.S. $'s would have triggered a default and poisoned the Western capital investment well per Russia for a long long long time... not just for lending but future actual dollar capital investments inside Russia (including accompanying technology/specialized knowledge of one sort or another) which already is severe future peril as it is.  I'm sure that he wasn't happy to do it but for all the talk of Putin being off his rocker, it's the rational long term economic move.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russia-says-it-made-debt-payments-in-dollars-a-move-that-would-avert-potential-default-reports-11647547104?mod=home-page

https://fortune.com/2022/03/17/russia-makes-interest-payment-external-debt-bonds-dollars-default/
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:26:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RolandofGilead] [#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


Air support would be pretty useless once entering any of the cities, due to the Fire From Enclosure ability of the Javelin. A guy firing from the 7th floor of a 20 story apartment block into a M1 Abrams will not be spotted until after the missile is gone, and its debatable if the US would vaporize a 20 story occupied apartment building for a single Jav shooter.

Not to mention of course is the US has had 20 years of being ambushed by RPG shooters, without air support being a given counter to that threat. Its not like every patrol in Iraq or Afghanistan had a personal drone flying persistent overwatch to protect the unit - which is what the US would need in a Ukraine+ATGM type scenario.
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


This. Even the US would take pretty horrific losses facing an insurgency armed with thousands of state of the art ATGMs and MANPADS.

Basically need every armored convoy to have a couple drones with thermal cameras scouting ahead an providing an anti-infantry umbrella, zapping anyone lurking near the convoys approach.


A lot of people are badmouthing the Russians, and lets face it, they're doing pretty lousy...but if you took a US force and told them to drive, no aviation support, into s sea of MANPADS and javelins, at the timetable they are being pushed...there isnt a rabbit you can pull out of your hat.

I dont want to be one of the "tank is dead" advocates but Im not sure theres an army that could do a whole lot better if Europe and teh US pretty much dumped tehir AT weapons on the place to be invaded.


The thing you're missing is that we would not send a US force without air support into a sea of javelins.

That's sorta the whole point. Your whole premise is flawed. It's like saying "if the American military was retarded and has piss poor training and planning then we would take a lot of casualties too".

Yeah that's why we're not retarded and train and plan.


Air support would be pretty useless once entering any of the cities, due to the Fire From Enclosure ability of the Javelin. A guy firing from the 7th floor of a 20 story apartment block into a M1 Abrams will not be spotted until after the missile is gone, and its debatable if the US would vaporize a 20 story occupied apartment building for a single Jav shooter.

Not to mention of course is the US has had 20 years of being ambushed by RPG shooters, without air support being a given counter to that threat. Its not like every patrol in Iraq or Afghanistan had a personal drone flying persistent overwatch to protect the unit - which is what the US would need in a Ukraine+ATGM type scenario.



Not really my point.

Eta my point is that we wouldn't be sending troops into a meat grinder without support- whatever that support looks like. Air, drone, armor, whatever.

Yes, under identical circumstances we would also take heavy losses.
That's why we wouldn't allow ourselves to be found under identical circumstances...that's the whole point.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:36:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hondaciv:

Yes.  If we had DJT in office, could he ask farmers to grow wheat instead of corn to make up for the global wheat deficit?
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Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

We need to stop using food for fuel.

Yes.  If we had DJT in office, could he ask farmers to grow wheat instead of corn to make up for the global wheat deficit?

Not hard red winter, it's too late. Maybe some soft wheats, I don't know, but the next time we can plant and harvest hard red winter is more than a year out.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:36:25 AM EDT
[#38]

Link Posted: 3/18/2022 4:59:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ecophon:

Apologies if it's a repeat.
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What is that, like 5 or 6 top Generals?

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:02:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



Not really my point.

Eta my point is that we wouldn't be sending troops into a meat grinder without support- whatever that support looks like. Air, drone, armor, whatever.

Yes, under identical circumstances we would also take heavy losses.
That's why we wouldn't allow ourselves to be found under identical circumstances...that's the whole point.
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


This. Even the US would take pretty horrific losses facing an insurgency armed with thousands of state of the art ATGMs and MANPADS.

Basically need every armored convoy to have a couple drones with thermal cameras scouting ahead an providing an anti-infantry umbrella, zapping anyone lurking near the convoys approach.


A lot of people are badmouthing the Russians, and lets face it, they're doing pretty lousy...but if you took a US force and told them to drive, no aviation support, into s sea of MANPADS and javelins, at the timetable they are being pushed...there isnt a rabbit you can pull out of your hat.

I dont want to be one of the "tank is dead" advocates but Im not sure theres an army that could do a whole lot better if Europe and teh US pretty much dumped tehir AT weapons on the place to be invaded.


The thing you're missing is that we would not send a US force without air support into a sea of javelins.

That's sorta the whole point. Your whole premise is flawed. It's like saying "if the American military was retarded and has piss poor training and planning then we would take a lot of casualties too".

Yeah that's why we're not retarded and train and plan.


Air support would be pretty useless once entering any of the cities, due to the Fire From Enclosure ability of the Javelin. A guy firing from the 7th floor of a 20 story apartment block into a M1 Abrams will not be spotted until after the missile is gone, and its debatable if the US would vaporize a 20 story occupied apartment building for a single Jav shooter.

Not to mention of course is the US has had 20 years of being ambushed by RPG shooters, without air support being a given counter to that threat. Its not like every patrol in Iraq or Afghanistan had a personal drone flying persistent overwatch to protect the unit - which is what the US would need in a Ukraine+ATGM type scenario.



Not really my point.

Eta my point is that we wouldn't be sending troops into a meat grinder without support- whatever that support looks like. Air, drone, armor, whatever.

Yes, under identical circumstances we would also take heavy losses.
That's why we wouldn't allow ourselves to be found under identical circumstances...that's the whole point.


Right. But what I'm saying is that the only real counter there would have been not invading, or at a minimum, putting a really huge emphasis on drone overwatch going back years and years.

If you do invade a country full of insurgents with ATGMS and Stingers....even the US would face serious casualties.

Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:03:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jerret_S] [#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheLurker:

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Russia is getting her ass whipped but those numbers are compleye BS imo. 450 tanks? Yeah right. 112 helicopters? Ahh no , to name a few.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:10:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jerret_S:

Russia is getting her ass whipped but those numbers are compleye BS imo. 450 tanks? Yeah right. 112 helicopters? Ahh no , to name a few.
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It's probably best to divide by 3 any numbers they publish.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:10:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: x248716x] [#43]
nvm
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:14:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


Right. But what I'm saying is that the only real counter there would have been not invading, or at a minimum, putting a really huge emphasis on drone overwatch going back years and years.

If you do invade a country full of insurgents with ATGMS and Stingers....even the US would face serious casualties.

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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


This. Even the US would take pretty horrific losses facing an insurgency armed with thousands of state of the art ATGMs and MANPADS.

Basically need every armored convoy to have a couple drones with thermal cameras scouting ahead an providing an anti-infantry umbrella, zapping anyone lurking near the convoys approach.


A lot of people are badmouthing the Russians, and lets face it, they're doing pretty lousy...but if you took a US force and told them to drive, no aviation support, into s sea of MANPADS and javelins, at the timetable they are being pushed...there isnt a rabbit you can pull out of your hat.

I dont want to be one of the "tank is dead" advocates but Im not sure theres an army that could do a whole lot better if Europe and teh US pretty much dumped tehir AT weapons on the place to be invaded.


The thing you're missing is that we would not send a US force without air support into a sea of javelins.

That's sorta the whole point. Your whole premise is flawed. It's like saying "if the American military was retarded and has piss poor training and planning then we would take a lot of casualties too".

Yeah that's why we're not retarded and train and plan.


Air support would be pretty useless once entering any of the cities, due to the Fire From Enclosure ability of the Javelin. A guy firing from the 7th floor of a 20 story apartment block into a M1 Abrams will not be spotted until after the missile is gone, and its debatable if the US would vaporize a 20 story occupied apartment building for a single Jav shooter.

Not to mention of course is the US has had 20 years of being ambushed by RPG shooters, without air support being a given counter to that threat. Its not like every patrol in Iraq or Afghanistan had a personal drone flying persistent overwatch to protect the unit - which is what the US would need in a Ukraine+ATGM type scenario.



Not really my point.

Eta my point is that we wouldn't be sending troops into a meat grinder without support- whatever that support looks like. Air, drone, armor, whatever.

Yes, under identical circumstances we would also take heavy losses.
That's why we wouldn't allow ourselves to be found under identical circumstances...that's the whole point.


Right. But what I'm saying is that the only real counter there would have been not invading, or at a minimum, putting a really huge emphasis on drone overwatch going back years and years.

If you do invade a country full of insurgents with ATGMS and Stingers....even the US would face serious casualties.



Alright.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:17:42 AM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By eesmith:
I had two weeks, worked out to be about 9 days in country with lost luggage, delays, and transit. I'll likely be back soon, we're working on nonprofit stuff and sourcing more stuff domestically.
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Thanks for the updates

Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:21:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jerret_S:

Russia is getting her ass whipped but those numbers are compleye BS imo. 450 tanks? Yeah right. 112 helicopters? Ahh no , to name a few.
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Originally Posted By Jerret_S:
Originally Posted By TheLurker:


Russia is getting her ass whipped but those numbers are compleye BS imo. 450 tanks? Yeah right. 112 helicopters? Ahh no , to name a few.


Yeah, they're likely inflated. But possibly not by that much.


This list is what Western observers have been able to confirm from pictures/footage posted on social media. Assuming that a proportion of destroyed equipment doesn't have publicly available images, the Ukrainians may be remarkably close to giving a relatively honest count...
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:29:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pr24guy:

What is that, like 5 or 6 top Generals?

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/picard-UhOh-339.gif
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Well, since his given rank is colonel (польковник), not a general.  Having said that, Russia itself has confirmed the deaths of three Major-Generals and Ukraine claims two more beyond that, including a Chechen Putin lackey who has not been seen since Ukraine claimed they offed him.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:32:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762] [#48]
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Originally Posted By m35ben:
Well she an idiot on this.
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Originally Posted By m35ben:
Originally Posted By outofbattery:



@BB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmSTO5UhVug
Well she an idiot on this.


Impossible to facepalm enough...

(Removed, CoC-4~guns762). Completely moron, so it's a lifelong task I am afraid.

Also someone should mention the Churchill quote to her. Something about reasoning with Tigers while the head is in their mouth or so.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:39:44 AM EDT
[#49]


Someone doesn't like atgms and manpads going to Ukraine

Rattling the sabre on this again is interesting. Wonder if they might try to pop a relief column?
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 5:47:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: x248716x] [#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheLurker:


Someone doesn't like atgms and manpads going to Ukraine

Rattling the sabre on this again is interesting. Wonder if they might try to pop a relief column?
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i'm kinda surprised they didn't do this from the outset.  it's been killing them, literally.
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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 1162 of 5592)
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