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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:36:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: I can't remember the last time a non-US citizen has been seen holding up a US flag in a positive way. What strange times we're in this year... Hong Kong, 2019. Anyone facing down the Red Menace starts to appreciate the USA. https://abcnews.go.com/International/exuberant-hong-kong-protesters-waving-american-flags/story?id=67371063  
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:38:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: I have two questions for the experts here: #1. All of the map briefings (such as the one showing UA forces 20 miles from the P-whatever number highway) always say "preventing lines of communication" or something very similar, specifically using the word "communication." What, exactly, does that mean? Do the Russians not have radios? Cell phones (obviously they do, since they're calling mom to bitch about conditions)? Other means of "communication?" Are they literally sending guys in trucks around with messages? Fuck, even trained pigeons would be a better option. I'm guessing they mean "resupply, including troop movements," and not actual "communications." Can someone explain? #2. To everyone pointing out how bad the Russians are at building trenches, and giving examples of how it's "properly done," isn't the brand-new horror of drone warfare the major difference? I gather a proper trench system includes a line of uncovered fighting trenches, backed by a line of partially covered rear trenches for resting, regrouping, etc., followed by more uncovered trenches connecting everything and used for rapid movement and such. I'm thinking ANYTIME you left the overhead cover, you'd eat a grenade. So, other than building trenches that are completely, 100% covered, IS there a correct way to make the trenches work given the absolute ridiculousness that warfare has become, with makeshift grenades dropped by modified off-the-shelf children's toys flying overhead? I'm starting to have my doubts. And it's only going to get worse, as soon everyone is going to be using purpose-made drones dropping purpose-made ordnance as opposed to kids toys and modified rifle grenades, ala that Revolver drone or whatever it's called. Are trenches in general now obsolete? Can they be made to work? Anyway, those were the things confusing me this morning as I catch-up. @Mikhail_86 and @CB1 , AlmightyTallest dropped the links a page back, but if you missed them, IM me. They're buried somewhere in my inbox, I can find them if I look.  “A line of communication (or communications) is the route that connects an operating military unit with its supply base. Supplies and reinforcements are transported along the line of communication. Therefore, a secure and open line of communication is vital for any military force to continue to operate effectively. Prior to the advent of the use of telegraph and radio in warfare, lines of communication were also the routes used by despatch riders on horseback and runners to convey and deliver orders and battle updates to and from unit commanders and headquarters. Thus, a unit whose lines of communication were compromised was vulnerable to becoming isolated and defeated, as the means for requesting reinforcements and resupply is lost. The standard military abbreviation is LOC. There is also SLOC for sea line of communication, GLOC for ground line of communication, or ALOC for air line of communication.” |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:38:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Sleeping in an open hole in the ground is about the single stupidest thing it is possible to do. Bury yourself in debris to trap and retain body heat in a layer of still air around yourself, if you don't have a tarp or blanket. The first thing you must do for a shelter in colder temperatures is trap and retain body heat, as well as keep out wind and moisture. I can't believe no one in Russia, a cold-weather northern hemisphere country, has a single coherent idea about fieldcraft or field survival. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By Waldo: looks like a complete lack of suitable kit for the conditions. Like I said before. Wet 40* weather sucks. It seems that these guys have no sleep systems at all. Sleeping in an open hole in the ground is about the single stupidest thing it is possible to do. Bury yourself in debris to trap and retain body heat in a layer of still air around yourself, if you don't have a tarp or blanket. The first thing you must do for a shelter in colder temperatures is trap and retain body heat, as well as keep out wind and moisture. I can't believe no one in Russia, a cold-weather northern hemisphere country, has a single coherent idea about fieldcraft or field survival. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:39:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SoCalExile]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Sleeping in an open hole in the ground is about the single stupidest thing it is possible to do. Bury yourself in debris to trap and retain body heat in a layer of still air around yourself, if you don't have a tarp or blanket. The first thing you must do for a shelter in colder temperatures is trap and retain body heat, as well as keep out wind and moisture. I can't believe no one in Russia, a cold-weather northern hemisphere country, has a single coherent idea about fieldcraft or field survival. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By Waldo: looks like a complete lack of suitable kit for the conditions. Like I said before. Wet 40* weather sucks. It seems that these guys have no sleep systems at all. Sleeping in an open hole in the ground is about the single stupidest thing it is possible to do. Bury yourself in debris to trap and retain body heat in a layer of still air around yourself, if you don't have a tarp or blanket. The first thing you must do for a shelter in colder temperatures is trap and retain body heat, as well as keep out wind and moisture. I can't believe no one in Russia, a cold-weather northern hemisphere country, has a single coherent idea about fieldcraft or field survival.  start @ 6:30  The Great Kilt -ULTIMATE SURVIVAL BLANKET? - Outdoor Clothing & Shelter in ONE Multifunctional Cloth |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:42:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: @Capta @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AROKIE: .... Ok, so where is that knowledge? I've read every post and there is ZERO indication of a professional evaluation of the situation. I'm not saying he doesn't have such knowledge; I'm saying that it has not been reflected in his posts in regards to the issue at hand. What we have gotten from RON's posts are the following, in no particular order: 1)That the US has no national interest involved in the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war. 2)That the level and content of US support damages US security and puts us in danger of losing a hypothetical future war against (probably) China. 3)That Ukraine "is not using the supplied weapons (i.e. HIMARS) properly and relies on emotional appeals to keep the supplies coming," without offering any evidence to back that statement. 4)That Russia is not and never was a threat to us. 5)That vague, hypothetical, and unprovable questions about the potential outcomes of US/Western support should be enough to prevent said support. Whatever this poster's previous experience was, I see no evidence of this experience in his comments on this thread. What I see are no better than opinions which have not been supported by either data, professional experience, or even cogent arguments. I challenge RON or any other poster to show otherwise using his posts on this thread. @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. I stand by every word I wrote. Taking one of RON’s “arguments” among many - “Russia is not a threat to us because they can’t even defeat their neighbor.” No attempt to consider the many extremely obvious factors why this is the case: that Russia ended up with (to them) an unexpected fight against a coalition with more than 20 times their economic output, that Ukraine borders three NATO states and interdicting supplies was neither planned for nor possible, that western ISR overwhelmingly benefits Ukraine, that Ukraine has the manpower. the territory, AND THE WILL to suffer enormous casualties and play defense-in-depth, and the list goes on and on. This shows, at best, a fundamentally unserious attempt to discuss the subject. And while “Russia is not a threat to us,” at the same time our decision-making has to be governed by the threat of Russia’s nuclear arsenal after a hypothetical breakup, and by the threat of a follow-on Russian leader after Putin. So which is it? Is Russia a threat or not a threat? If Russia’s nuclear arsenal is not a threat to us now how does it become a threat to us after Russia loses in Ukraine? Russia’s repeated threats to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine and the West aren’t threats? Putin’s successor will have exactly the same military capabilities (or less) than Putin has today, so how will that hypothetical leader be a threat while Putin is not a threat? What RON is arguing here is intents, not capabilities. You are entitled to think that I am unqualified to argue the subject. I never served in the armed forces. My degree is in Political Science with four years of Russian and Eastern European studies, and four years of Russian language. So yes, I am qualified to comment on this overall topic with some credibility. You can believe that or not, as is your right. You are also entitled to think that “I am a spy trying to get truly knowledgeable people to divulge secrets by social engineering.” I find that amusing (borderline hilarious) as I have pointedly refrained from satisfying my curiosity by asking such questions of people who are actual experts and valuable contributors on this thread. But for the record, I am a proud US citizen, a resident of the Great State of Texas, a patriot, and a Christian. You can accept that or not. I can and will discuss the issue in a civil and professional manner, but I stand by my statements. RON doesn’t get to roll the SME tag out and have everyone defer to his opinions. He can bring actual arguments to the table and defend them like everyone else here. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:44:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Do we have mods?
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:45:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I stand by every word I wrote and I'm calling out RON as arguing the subject in bad faith. Taking one of his "arguments" among many - "Russia is not a threat to us because they can't even defeat their neighbor." No attempt to consider the many extremely obvious factors why this is the case: that Russia ended up with (to them) an unexpected fight against a coalition with more than 20 times their economic output, that Ukraine borders three NATO states and interdicting supplies was neither planned for nor possible, that western ISR overwhelmingly benefits Ukraine, that Ukraine has the manpower. the territory, AND THE WILL to suffer enormous casualties and play defense-in-depth, and the list goes on and on. This shows either a fundamentally unserious attempt to discuss the subject, or an intent to mislead using his credentials. And while "Russia is not a threat to us," at the same time our decision-making has to be governed by the threat of Russia's nuclear arsenal after a hypothetical breakup, and by the threat of a follow-on Russia leader after Putin. So which is it? Is Russia a threat or not a threat? If Russia's nuclear arsenal is not a threat to us now how does it become a threat to us after Russia loses in Ukraine? Russia's repeated threats to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine and the West aren't threats? Putin's successor will have exactly the same military capabilities (or less) than Putin has today, so how will that hypothetical leader be a threat while Putin is not a threat? What RON is arguing here is intents, not capabilities. You are entitled to think that I am unqualified to argue the subject. I never served in the armed forces. My degree is in Political Science with four years of Russian and Eastern European studies, and four years of Russian language. So yes, I am qualified to comment on this overall topic with some credibility. You can believe that or not, as is your right. You are also entitled to think that "I am a spy trying to get truly knowledgeable people to divulge secrets by social engineering." I find that amusing (borderline hilarious) as I have pointedly refrained from satisfying my curiosity by asking such questions of people who are actual experts and valuable contributors on this thread. But for the record, I am a proud US citizen, a resident of the Great State of Texas, a patriot, and a Christian. You can accept that or not. I can and will discuss the issue in a civil and professional manner, but I stand by my statements. RON doesn't get to roll the SME tag out and have everyone defer to his opinions. He can bring actual arguments to the table and defend them like everyone else here. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:50:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: I have two questions for the experts here: #1. All of the map briefings (such as the one showing UA forces 20 miles from the P-whatever number highway) always say "preventing lines of communication" or something very similar, specifically using the word "communication." What, exactly, does that mean? Do the Russians not have radios? Cell phones (obviously they do, since they're calling mom to bitch about conditions)? Other means of "communication?" Are they literally sending guys in trucks around with messages? Fuck, even trained pigeons would be a better option. I'm guessing they mean "resupply, including troop movements," and not actual "communications." Can someone explain? #2. To everyone pointing out how bad the Russians are at building trenches, and giving examples of how it's "properly done," isn't the brand-new horror of drone warfare the major difference? I gather a proper trench system includes a line of uncovered fighting trenches, backed by a line of partially covered rear trenches for resting, regrouping, etc., followed by more uncovered trenches connecting everything and used for rapid movement and such. I'm thinking ANYTIME you left the overhead cover, you'd eat a grenade. So, other than building trenches that are completely, 100% covered, IS there a correct way to make the trenches work given the absolute ridiculousness that warfare has become, with makeshift grenades dropped by modified off-the-shelf children's toys flying overhead? I'm starting to have my doubts. And it's only going to get worse, as soon everyone is going to be using purpose-made drones dropping purpose-made ordnance as opposed to kids toys and modified rifle grenades, ala that Revolver drone or whatever it's called. Are trenches in general now obsolete? Can they be made to work? Anyway, those were the things confusing me this morning as I catch-up. @Mikhail_86 and @CB1 , AlmightyTallest dropped the links a page back, but if you missed them, IM me. They're buried somewhere in my inbox, I can find them if I look. I think the front trenches are built the way they are to make sure the people in them can't hide from the fight, can't retreat. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:53:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW. Ukrainian drone drop on Russian soldiers with secondaries from the Russian soldiers.
The psychological value of that type of attack (and the video of the attack) cannot be understated. Incendiary munitions are valuable terror weapons (granted - that video may just be HE that set something off which was already in the trench). Nevertheless: When videos and reports of incendiary weapons use are shared back in Russia, the potential Mobiks and 17 year-olds facing conscription will break their own legs or find ways to sneak out of Russia to escape service. We had a valuable discussion pages back on why the US version of the Napalm bomb would not be feasible for Ukrainian use. But Napalm is far from the only incendiary munition. I was only half joking about “flaming Mobiks running in every direction.” The key is to make sure the terror is spread back home among the right Russian demographic. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:55:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Hadn’t seen an update on these til now. One of the 800 Taiwanese “Revolver 860” drones, carrying eight 60mm mortar shells. Fucking shit up in Kherson. Terrifying. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:56:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anonimovaca: “A line of communication (or communications) is the route that connects an operating military unit with its supply base. Supplies and reinforcements are transported along the line of communication. Therefore, a secure and open line of communication is vital for any military force to continue to operate effectively. Prior to the advent of the use of telegraph and radio in warfare, lines of communication were also the routes used by despatch riders on horseback and runners to convey and deliver orders and battle updates to and from unit commanders and headquarters. Thus, a unit whose lines of communication were compromised was vulnerable to becoming isolated and defeated, as the means for requesting reinforcements and resupply is lost. The standard military abbreviation is LOC. There is also SLOC for sea line of communication, GLOC for ground line of communication, or ALOC for air line of communication.” Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anonimovaca: Originally Posted By Kagetora: I have two questions for the experts here: #1. All of the map briefings (such as the one showing UA forces 20 miles from the P-whatever number highway) always say "preventing lines of communication" or something very similar, specifically using the word "communication." What, exactly, does that mean? Do the Russians not have radios? Cell phones (obviously they do, since they're calling mom to bitch about conditions)? Other means of "communication?" Are they literally sending guys in trucks around with messages? Fuck, even trained pigeons would be a better option. I'm guessing they mean "resupply, including troop movements," and not actual "communications." Can someone explain? #2. To everyone pointing out how bad the Russians are at building trenches, and giving examples of how it's "properly done," isn't the brand-new horror of drone warfare the major difference? I gather a proper trench system includes a line of uncovered fighting trenches, backed by a line of partially covered rear trenches for resting, regrouping, etc., followed by more uncovered trenches connecting everything and used for rapid movement and such. I'm thinking ANYTIME you left the overhead cover, you'd eat a grenade. So, other than building trenches that are completely, 100% covered, IS there a correct way to make the trenches work given the absolute ridiculousness that warfare has become, with makeshift grenades dropped by modified off-the-shelf children's toys flying overhead? I'm starting to have my doubts. And it's only going to get worse, as soon everyone is going to be using purpose-made drones dropping purpose-made ordnance as opposed to kids toys and modified rifle grenades, ala that Revolver drone or whatever it's called. Are trenches in general now obsolete? Can they be made to work? Anyway, those were the things confusing me this morning as I catch-up. @Mikhail_86 and @CB1 , AlmightyTallest dropped the links a page back, but if you missed them, IM me. They're buried somewhere in my inbox, I can find them if I look. “A line of communication (or communications) is the route that connects an operating military unit with its supply base. Supplies and reinforcements are transported along the line of communication. Therefore, a secure and open line of communication is vital for any military force to continue to operate effectively. Prior to the advent of the use of telegraph and radio in warfare, lines of communication were also the routes used by despatch riders on horseback and runners to convey and deliver orders and battle updates to and from unit commanders and headquarters. Thus, a unit whose lines of communication were compromised was vulnerable to becoming isolated and defeated, as the means for requesting reinforcements and resupply is lost. The standard military abbreviation is LOC. There is also SLOC for sea line of communication, GLOC for ground line of communication, or ALOC for air line of communication.” So, a "hold over" term from a previous era of warfare that's still useful and in common use. Perfect. thank you.
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:57:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I think the front trenches are built the way they are to make sure the people in them can't hide from the fight, can't retreat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Kagetora: I have two questions for the experts here: #1. All of the map briefings (such as the one showing UA forces 20 miles from the P-whatever number highway) always say "preventing lines of communication" or something very similar, specifically using the word "communication." What, exactly, does that mean? Do the Russians not have radios? Cell phones (obviously they do, since they're calling mom to bitch about conditions)? Other means of "communication?" Are they literally sending guys in trucks around with messages? Fuck, even trained pigeons would be a better option. I'm guessing they mean "resupply, including troop movements," and not actual "communications." Can someone explain? #2. To everyone pointing out how bad the Russians are at building trenches, and giving examples of how it's "properly done," isn't the brand-new horror of drone warfare the major difference? I gather a proper trench system includes a line of uncovered fighting trenches, backed by a line of partially covered rear trenches for resting, regrouping, etc., followed by more uncovered trenches connecting everything and used for rapid movement and such. I'm thinking ANYTIME you left the overhead cover, you'd eat a grenade. So, other than building trenches that are completely, 100% covered, IS there a correct way to make the trenches work given the absolute ridiculousness that warfare has become, with makeshift grenades dropped by modified off-the-shelf children's toys flying overhead? I'm starting to have my doubts. And it's only going to get worse, as soon everyone is going to be using purpose-made drones dropping purpose-made ordnance as opposed to kids toys and modified rifle grenades, ala that Revolver drone or whatever it's called. Are trenches in general now obsolete? Can they be made to work? Anyway, those were the things confusing me this morning as I catch-up. @Mikhail_86 and @CB1 , AlmightyTallest dropped the links a page back, but if you missed them, IM me. They're buried somewhere in my inbox, I can find them if I look. I think the front trenches are built the way they are to make sure the people in them can't hide from the fight, can't retreat. Oof. That's a dark thought. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 1:59:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: We are all concerned about it. We were concerned about it last time it fell. We will need to have rock solid plans for the various contingencies. I personally don’t see Russia falling all together. A regime change is probably 50/50, with another strong man in there. Logically, the new leader would be anti war, since Putin is the face of the conflict and the face of escalation. Otherwise, Putin stays in power. No matter who is in charge, their military capabilities and war fighting budget has to be diminished. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By R0N: Originally Posted By Redman556: Originally Posted By R0N: I can see the serious emotional attachment by many of you in the cause of a country that Is not the US and you push back against anything that does not meet the narrative I will say what I have said many times before I could care less of my ancestor’s homeland and it’s squabbles I put the US interest first and many of you are letting that emotional attachment put the interests of Ukraine ahead of Americas. It is in the interest of the US to see a traditional, nuclear armed, aggressive enemy destroyed, while using no US troops "officially" in or over the battlefield. This is a cheap method, both in money and blood, to destroy an enemy, that simply due to their size and Europe's need for it's oil, would be able to rebuild it's military over the next 20-30 years. It is also in our interests to only have to really worry about one strategic enemy, China, rather than two, Russia and China. This is a one time offer, at the lowest price we've ever seen or will ever see. Look at what we spent during the Cold War, and what we spent in men a money in conflicts we were involved in that the Soviets pushed in their expansion of global conquest. Vietnam, Korea, so many other smaller conflicts in South America, Africa, and the Middle East. There is no valid argument against our actions and support. There is a valid argument against kickbacks, waste, and fraud. And what happens when that nuclear armed government falls? We are all concerned about it. We were concerned about it last time it fell. We will need to have rock solid plans for the various contingencies. I personally don’t see Russia falling all together. A regime change is probably 50/50, with another strong man in there. Logically, the new leader would be anti war, since Putin is the face of the conflict and the face of escalation. Otherwise, Putin stays in power. No matter who is in charge, their military capabilities and war fighting budget has to be diminished. I doubt the Dems are concerned in the same way. If they were, AFG would not have ended in the same way. They may be supporting the destruction of the orcs but I don't trust they really care about the survival of our current form of government of moral basis. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:07:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BustinCaps: Plenty of times. Hong Kong right before Covid is an example. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BustinCaps: Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By centex_SR-15: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Putin betrayed the Armenians, there was no "inability to help". It was due to a combination of wanting to stay on good terms with the Azeris (and their Turkish patrons) and putting Armenia in a position of increased dependency on him for "protection". He didn't let Baby Assad twist in the wind like he did to Armenia. A screenshot I took of Armenians protesting Putin at the summit. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/15EBC4AC-50D1-4B00-B57C-F79A9ED68256-2612159.jpg Flying our flag is one hell of a slap in the face. Full video. Time stamp is at about 6:45  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5lkIbxKNdcFrench and Ukrainian flags, too. Lol. Looks like they understand Putin is using them like a Shake 'n Bake bag and don't like it. I can't remember the last time a non-US citizen has been seen holding up a US flag in a positive way. What strange times we're in this year... Plenty of times. Hong Kong right before Covid is an example. I saw it in Seoul a lot. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:09:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: This just shows, you debate for the 3rd party listening, not that you intend to change the mind of who you are debating. Show your position is superior, and leave it at that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By postpostban: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By R0N: I can see the serious emotional attachment by many of you in the cause of a country that Is not the US and you push back against anything that does not meet the narrative I will say what I have said many times before I could care less of my ancestor's homeland and it's squabbles I put the US interest first and many of you are letting that emotional attachment put the interests of Ukraine ahead of Americas. We are doing NO such a thing. We ARE putting Americas interest first by assisting Ukraine. And we need to be doing more of it. I'm not sure that is correct. I have, for years, thought Russia was probably correct and Ukraine was just a corrupt playground for NWO types. After I started following this thread, My eyes have been to opened to many truths. The Nazi thing is mostly overblown B.S., the anti-Russian speaker thing is overblown. NATO was moving towards Russia, because all of her former states were running in NATO's arms. There really is a part of Ukraine that wishes to be free of the corruption and oligarchs they were living under, etc. I have zero personnel interests in Ukraine, I am very much in favor of doing things with this countries best's interests in mind, yet I have been persuaded by this thread that we are doing the right thing helping them. I do think there should be a different thread about the justification for our involvement and the future consequences of those actions. This should be a war reporting thread. Unfortunately, this seems to be the only thread that can maintain civility. All the others are allowed to be overrun with trolls. Show your position is superior, and leave it at that. This is always why I debate. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:10:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Do we have mods? Ya Zhukov mods this thread. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:11:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: That is genuinely one thing I did not expect to ever see in the news. My guess is they targeted it hoping there was a HIMARS/MARS/M270 inside. It’s got to be a full time, full stress keeping them hidden. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:12:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: That is genuinely one thing I did not expect to ever see in the news. They must have been biolab-spawned Nazi ostriches. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:23:16 PM EDT
[#19]
A pretty good youtube channel I've been following.
 Wagner Group Seizes Territory! The Kremlin is...Upset? |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:26:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: WTF was that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW. Ukrainian drone drop on Russian soldiers with secondaries from the Russian soldiers.
WTF was that? WP? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:26:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: So, a "hold over" term from a previous era of warfare that's still useful and in common use. Perfect. thank you. I didn't know it included supply. Thanks. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:30:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Money is not why the CCP wants Taiwan. They want it because it’s an example of what Han Chinese can do without the CCP, because it is a storehouse of what Chinese history was before the CCP vandalized it, and most importantly, until the last stronghold of the hated Nationalists is overrun, they cannot truly say they won the Civil War. The money and tech they will reap from sacking Taiwan is desirable, but it’s a small part of why they want it. They may well be willing to destroy Taiwan if that’s what it takes for them to have it. It should not be taken for granted blowing the fabs has or will deter them. I agree and in this respect Taiwan to China is different than Ukraine to Russia. Russia really needed the manufacturing know-how and resources in Ukraine. For China, I think Taiwan is just about pride for their commie revolution. I doubt there is anything in Taiwan that China really needs. Anyway it would all be wrecked during an invasion. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:40:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Russian TG
https://t.me/mototroopers_205/681 #Advice to the mobilized. Phrases that make you tense: - do not take anything with you, everything will be given out on the spot. - Go boldly, you will be met there. - go there, there is no one there, the specialists checked everything. - do not piss, the tank will cover you, the art has already worked. - so what if it's not your profile, you're defending your Motherland. - business for half an hour, went in and out. - sappers checked everything. ✏️ @ieZekiil_9 2️⃣0️⃣5️⃣ |
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:43:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I realize noone probably cares, other then me, but I think the way these guys are dug in is the textbook way. This is from Vietnam, I assume Marines. Build your fighting positions and bunkers with overhead cover, and the trench is behind the fighting positions. Use it to move back and forth as a commo trench, between the bunkers, not a fighting position. Spend all day under the overhead cover, not the trench. We tend to not bother with camouflage and Id say a whole lot of dirt and leaves need to go over the sandbags. But that's Vietnam In the Army there are eight classes of supply. "Class IV" is barrier and fortification materials. Im somewhat disappointed we haven't let a contract with the Poles or someone to provide lumber, and we should have offloaded sandbags. In all the photos I see of Ukrainian troops being trained by our Euro partners, I see lots of attacking and CQBing, It would be nice if they built a "petting zoo" of how to dig in and what right looks like. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/06/fd/ab/06fdab05efc4780c372d8eccead65530.jpg I've posted this a few times...these Russians in their stupid trenches and hasty positions are what wrong looks like...this is text book: link I don't know who did this but I KNOW they are good soldiers. You can FEEL the presence of a really good noncommissioned officer looking at this video. Definitely a professional. Tip 'o the cap to them, wherever they are. I care. Much of the time I don't comment on stuff so as to not clutter up the thread but I certainly read it and think about it. I value yours and others' posts even if I don't comment much. I suspect there are many who do the same. Just wanted to throw that out there so people don't equate a lack of engagement with a lack of interest. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:47:01 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 11/27/2022 2:52:42 PM EDT
[#26]
"Russian Soldier's Mother Begging Him To Get Home | Russians Are Scared Of American Weapons"  Russian Soldier’s Mother Begging Him To Get Home| Russians Are Scared Of American Weapons |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:01:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mfaux:
Hadn’t seen an update on these til now. One of the 800 Taiwanese “Revolver 860” drones, carrying eight 60mm mortar shells. Fucking shit up in Kherson. Terrifying. Damn! |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:07:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/5604E61B-B75B-4ED6-A461-0164C7CCFFED-2615781.jpg Shooting Cesars from watercraft sounds like BS. You'll never get any accuracy because of unstable by it's nature platform and will have to wait for a really long time between shots for a boat to stop pitching or rolling from recoil. AFAIK big caliber naval guns have gyro stabilization systems that won't let the gun fire after receiving the fire command till the ship is level, i.e. there is a delay between fire command and actual shot. Maybe someone with better understanding of naval gunnery can elaborate on that. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:08:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Shooting Caesars from watercraft sounds like BS. You'll never get any accuracy because of unstable by it's nature platform and will have to wait for a really long time between shots for a boat to stop pitching or rolling from recoil. AFAIK big caliber naval guns have gyro stabilization systems that won't let the gun fire after receiving the fire command till the ship is level, i.e. there is a delay between fire command and actual shot. Maybe someone with better understanding of naval gunnery can elaborate on that. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:09:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: They must have been biolab-spawned Nazi ostriches. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: That is genuinely one thing I did not expect to ever see in the news. They must have been biolab-spawned Nazi ostriches. Your move Ukraine. Make this happen! Dead Ostrich Takes Flight As A Cyborg Quadcopter Monstrosity
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:14:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheHunstman]
[#31]
NM LOL
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:15:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheHunstman: Wow do the Texans suck...
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:20:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Shooting Cesars from watercraft sounds like BS. You'll never get any accuracy because of unstable by it's nature platform and will have to wait for a really long time between shots for a boat to stop pitching or rolling from recoil. AFAIK big caliber naval guns have gyro stabilization systems that won't let the gun fire after receiving the fire command till the ship is level, i.e. there is a delay between fire command and actual shot. Maybe someone with better understanding of naval gunnery can elaborate on that. Minute of island was good enough. 
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:21:28 PM EDT
[#34]
The Russians just need PT belts:
 The PT Belt - Inside Joke Or Conspiracy? |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:23:12 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:36:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Lmao and what makes it funnier to me is that they’re Russian speaking Ukrainians haha. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:43:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: @Capta @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AROKIE: .... Ok, so where is that knowledge? I've read every post and there is ZERO indication of a professional evaluation of the situation. I'm not saying he doesn't have such knowledge; I'm saying that it has not been reflected in his posts in regards to the issue at hand. What we have gotten from RON's posts are the following, in no particular order: 1)That the US has no national interest involved in the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war. 2)That the level and content of US support damages US security and puts us in danger of losing a hypothetical future war against (probably) China. 3)That Ukraine "is not using the supplied weapons (i.e. HIMARS) properly and relies on emotional appeals to keep the supplies coming," without offering any evidence to back that statement. 4)That Russia is not and never was a threat to us. 5)That vague, hypothetical, and unprovable questions about the potential outcomes of US/Western support should be enough to prevent said support. Whatever this poster's previous experience was, I see no evidence of this experience in his comments on this thread. What I see are no better than opinions which have not been supported by either data, professional experience, or even cogent arguments. I challenge RON or any other poster to show otherwise using his posts on this thread. @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. You are saying he's a traitor? An actual foreign agent?  I think you are attacking him for some unknown reason. And that's a bit much. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:45:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: That is genuinely one thing I did not expect to ever see in the news. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikhbsDWYAAXSyT?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikoUEWXEAALUs2?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikoUD7X0AEBP-m?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikoUD3WYAI0QLt?format=jpg&name=medium That is genuinely one thing I did not expect to ever see in the news. Japan: Fuck you dolphin and whale! Russia: Fuck you ostrich! |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:51:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 307Patriot: I've heard that the "No Nukes" movement in Germany was Soviet espionage's greatest victory of the cold war. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 307Patriot: Originally Posted By Featureless: The United States has done very little recently towards increasing "fossil fuel" availability. Our fuel prices are up significantly, too, and we're pushing the elimination of fossil fuels and nuke power to be "green." That may be a noble goal but shifting off available reliable and plentiful enrgy sources before the alternatives are available was stupid. And Europe was happy to do that too. I've heard that the "No Nukes" movement in Germany was Soviet espionage's greatest victory of the cold war. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:54:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: WP? posted earlier it just ignited their DIY hole heater |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:55:01 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:55:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Shooting Cesars from watercraft sounds like BS. You'll never get any accuracy because of unstable by it's nature platform and will have to wait for a really long time between shots for a boat to stop pitching or rolling from recoil. AFAIK big caliber naval guns have gyro stabilization systems that won't let the gun fire after receiving the fire command till the ship is level, i.e. there is a delay between fire command and actual shot. Maybe someone with better understanding of naval gunnery can elaborate on that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Originally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/5604E61B-B75B-4ED6-A461-0164C7CCFFED-2615781.jpg Shooting Cesars from watercraft sounds like BS. You'll never get any accuracy because of unstable by it's nature platform and will have to wait for a really long time between shots for a boat to stop pitching or rolling from recoil. AFAIK big caliber naval guns have gyro stabilization systems that won't let the gun fire after receiving the fire command till the ship is level, i.e. there is a delay between fire command and actual shot. Maybe someone with better understanding of naval gunnery can elaborate on that. There is footage of the UA’s sole domestic truck-mounted 155 shelling Snake island from literally on the beach, so we (probably) know they could hit it from dry land. This may be a garbled story about using barges to get CAESARS to a point they could shell snake island. Crossing protected waters on a barge may be unusual but I doubt it’s impossible. Or maybe they transported the CAESARs by barge to a sandbar, grounded the barge, then fired. If you ballasted the barge you could be assured of getting off the bar by throwing the ballast overboard. Hitting anything from open water should be impossible but with some imagination you can come up with some plausible scenarios. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:56:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Edit, found the link to the Ukrainian dog tags made from a T-80's ERA armor. https://www.instagram.com/dogtankua/ Purchase link is here: https://checkout.stripe.com/c/pay/cs_live_a13p6Ww4fzeBEB6Yj4fvhTCZt6paJccYG9aHTalWK4ToMKrqY6I6FR59sR#fidkdWxOYHwnPyd1blppbHNgWjA0SVBHNF1HQzF%2FSUBPYjdrckJsPEw0f0lKczdgb0ZQaFRrZ1dsUHJpU3dSa3RXa2ExdGhncjc8NWhUME09Z0RtQmkzfVByandkTFxuV2R2XUFKN1Azbl1nNTV%2FbzxRPEB1ZycpJ3VpbGtuQH11anZgYUxhJz8nZ0xcZE1GMzxdMUpRMU9SM2p3Jyknd2BjYHd3YHdKd2xibGsnPydtcXF1dj8qKmkrbGt2cWRid2RoK2ZqaConeCUl 
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:56:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: Japan: Fuck you dolphin and whale! Russia: Fuck you ostrich! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikhbsDWYAAXSyT?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikoUEWXEAALUs2?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikoUD7X0AEBP-m?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FikoUD3WYAI0QLt?format=jpg&name=medium That is genuinely one thing I did not expect to ever see in the news. Japan: Fuck you dolphin and whale! Russia: Fuck you ostrich! 
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Posted: 11/27/2022 3:59:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: Japan: Fuck you dolphin and whale! Russia: Fuck you ostrich! |
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 4:02:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Waldo: looks like a complete lack of suitable kit for the conditions. Like I said before. Wet 40* weather sucks. It seems that these guys have no sleep systems at all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Waldo: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Russian soldiers in the Bakhmut area are discovered dead of hypothermia from a fellow soldier checking on them. Then the artillery starts coming in.
looks like a complete lack of suitable kit for the conditions. Like I said before. Wet 40* weather sucks. It seems that these guys have no sleep systems at all. All factors, yes. But also consider: - at best, a week of refresher training. And their original, mandatory conscription years ago? I seriously doubt there was any cold-weather training. But they still might have survived if they had: - NCOs. These Mobiks are just dumped on the front without any sort of leadership. Or rather: their “leaders” are far at the rear, warming themselves inside a looted civilian home. But these Mobiks (and likely thousands of others) have no experienced NCOs to organize them to build a proper dugout with some sort of heat needed to survive. Before you feel sorry for them however, consider the overall Russian strategy: force the EU to allow Russia to take over Ukraine, or we will freeze you all to death by cutting off the gas. They did cut off the gas, but Europe won’t freeze. Now Russia is trying the same strategy on the free parts of Ukraine: freeze civilians to death by bombing energy infrastructure. Russia’s military must die (literally) before their leadership decides to turn onwards and take care of their people. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 4:04:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mfaux:
Hadn’t seen an update on these til now. One of the 800 Taiwanese “Revolver 860” drones, carrying eight 60mm mortar shells. Fucking shit up in Kherson. Terrifying. Watching an infrared drop was a twist for me. The interior of the entire hole suddenly got warm. Splat! 
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Posted: 11/27/2022 4:35:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: grambosc]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: The psychological value of that type of attack (and the video of the attack) cannot be understated. Incendiary munitions are valuable terror weapons (granted - that video may just be HE that set something off which was already in the trench). Nevertheless: When videos and reports of incendiary weapons use are shared back in Russia, the potential Mobiks and 17 year-olds facing conscription will break their own legs or find ways to sneak out of Russia to escape service. We had a valuable discussion pages back on why the US version of the Napalm bomb would not be feasible for Ukrainian use. But Napalm is far from the only incendiary munition. I was only half joking about “flaming Mobiks running in every direction.” The key is to make sure the terror is spread back home among the right Russian demographic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW. Ukrainian drone drop on Russian soldiers with secondaries from the Russian soldiers.
The psychological value of that type of attack (and the video of the attack) cannot be understated. Incendiary munitions are valuable terror weapons (granted - that video may just be HE that set something off which was already in the trench). Nevertheless: When videos and reports of incendiary weapons use are shared back in Russia, the potential Mobiks and 17 year-olds facing conscription will break their own legs or find ways to sneak out of Russia to escape service. We had a valuable discussion pages back on why the US version of the Napalm bomb would not be feasible for Ukrainian use. But Napalm is far from the only incendiary munition. I was only half joking about “flaming Mobiks running in every direction.” The key is to make sure the terror is spread back home among the right Russian demographic. It looks like there was a satchel of something in the trench before the drone drop blew up. Maybe grenades or mines? Rocket propellant? |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 4:37:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Do we have mods? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2022 4:47:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amanbearpig: Well, I imagine there are 2 competing camps in Russia right now. Both see the war going poorly at best. Both, like the vast majority of the world, likely thought the war would go much "easier". One side, like you suggest, will want to end the conflict as soon as possible. The other will want to continue to escalate. I think the problem is that right now, human pride has a very hard time admitting failure, especially if part of you is thinking "if we just take this other hand from behind our back". People are willing to do stupid things if they perceive it as necessary - whether valid or not. We can completely rightly sit here and say whoa just get rid of Putin and everything will be fine we can have peace and prosperity, but there will be a large component in Russia who currently view the conflict as existential-lite. They view their future as a nation and as a quasi first world nation as in jeopardy. Whether we agree or whether their opinion is incorrect or not doesn't matter, it only has to be perceived that way by enough people. I certainly hope you're right. I think this is accurate. If some moderate leader managed to be the Russian President, he/she would have to worry about the hard nationalists that probably constitute a large part of the Russian elite. |
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