User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
ND, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 1:33:16 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Not the Greens. Social Democrats are the problem, and some right wing; They are the ones the Russians have bought and influenced since they’ve been the ruling party for so long. The greens are actually gung ho for Ukraine. The FM, Baerbock, is Green and way out ahead on this issue. Ah thx, I stand corrected. Now I know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 1:54:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: IIRC, we have a bunch of it Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By SuperSixOne: These old NATO tanks are 105mm, not 120. Does anyone even have ammo stocks for that? Yup. I suspect we have lots of it. Not only from Cold War stocks, but I seem to recall there was some newly manufactured stuff for the MGS. Not only that, but there are many other countries that still have tanks that use those rounds in active (and recently active) service, so not only would they have large stocks that they could donate, but that also implies there is still an active production capacity. Even if the 105mm rifle is a bit underpowered for later model tanks in the frontal arc, they can still kill anything from the side and rear, and they have a huge variety of shell types they can fire which makes them very useful in the Infantry support role - APFSDS, APDS, HEP, HEAT, HE-frag, WP, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 2:07:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: And then what happened? There was a guy in the trench 15 feet to their right. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AgeOne: this is about as big a FUCK YOU as I can imagine.
And then what happened? There was a guy in the trench 15 feet to their right. comments say that there is russian footage of the same incident and that a russian jumps out and places a mine under the tank and booms it.. but yet to see it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 2:30:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: The Russians wouldn't dress up one of their own and have them pretend to be a dead enemy, would they? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By theskuh: looks legit otherwise. Nice gear. Or find an old photo that was posted by some UA Soldier. This style of photo was a fad mostly a couple years ago. I guess mimicking what an old GI Joe toy would come with in the box, of all his kit. The picture format/game had a name but I can’t recall it |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 2:54:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#5]
A bit more info on the Sea Sparrows:
“The package will for the first time include radar-guided Sea Sparrow anti-air missiles, which can be launched from the sea or on land to intercept aircraft or cruise missiles. In a bit of battlefield innovation, the Ukrainian military has managed to tweak its existing Soviet-era BUK launchers to fire the Sea Sparrow, two people familiar with the matter said. Up to this point, Taiwan has been the only country to operate the ground-launched version of the missiles, while the U.S. and multiple allied navies use the ship-mounted version.” https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/05/biden-ukraine-bradley-vehicles-tanks-00076549 Ukraine identifies Russian 5th Separate Tank Brigade for war crimes for role in ambushing civilian cars: https://www.ukrgate.com/eng/?p=51223 New US aid package may include more HIMARS: https://english.nv.ua/nation/upcoming-us-security-aid-package-for-ukraine-to-include-additional-himars-launchers-50295502.html A few words about HAWK systems from a more general article. Apparently an effort is underway in the US to refurb/update stored missiles. “In Washington, closed-door talks have begun about pulling Cold War-era munitions out of bunkers and upgrading them enough to be useful to Kyiv, according to one person familiar with the discussions. One such program has already started, with missiles for long-retired U.S.-made HAWK air defense systems slated to get the necessary updates to be sent to the fight. The HAWK missiles would be paired with several launchers Spain has pledged to send Ukraine. The Hawk is still in use in Europe and elsewhere, but was phased out by the U.S. Army in the early 1990s in favor of the Patriot system, meaning the existing missiles in American warehouses need to be refurbished.” https://english.nv.ua/nation/upcoming-us-security-aid-package-for-ukraine-to-include-additional-himars-launchers-50295502.html Significant small arms tracer fire in Crimea. Stated to be a night-time UA drone attack on an unknown target. One ground explosion seen. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/103hivh/nizhnegorskoe_crimea_air_defense_not_working/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 2:56:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Like I said earlier. We need to send them a couple hundred at least. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Then the Ukrainians might win the war and the globalists don't want that. Then they wouldn't be able to keep making money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 3:53:32 AM EDT
[#7]
https://apnews.com/article/biden-united-states-government-olaf-scholz-germany-84fc07af2356d8d02adec2e987d06c0a
Since Germany is apparently following the US lead with a Patriot battery, here’s a few thoughts/speculations: -This IMO continues to represent the slow ratcheting up of UA capabilities, and pressure on Russia -The timing could well be linked to the depletion of Russian missile stockpiles. Obviously Russia would love to kill a Patriot battery, but their now critically low missile stock means that they probably cannot send an overwhelming attack anymore. Thus Patriot should be able to clean up the now lower rate of missile attacks with much less threat to itself. -Total speculation on my part, but IMO a big unspoken reason for Patriot in Ukraine is to provide an anti-nuke defense. NATO and Ukraine obviously take the nuclear threat seriously, and the Allies likely perceive that Russia’s situation will become more dire in 2023, leading to a more significant nuclear threat. -The US will probably insist on Patriot being stationed where its range doesn’t significantly extend into Russia. Ukraine will probably not want to risk it close to the front where tactical weapons can reach it, even though this would give them much better AA coverage. Kiev is a no-brainer. But the second battery? Dnipro, perhaps. Zaporizhia is too close to the front and Kharkiv is too close to Russia. Dnipro lets them keep an eye on both the eastern front and the southern front, while protecting Zaporizhia as well. -A third battery would be ideal, with the first two being in Kiev and Dnipro, this one could be in Mikolaiv, protecting both Odessa and Kherson. This would let them keep an eye on Crimea and the Black Sea approach. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 3:54:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Then the Ukrainians might win the war and the globalists don't want that. Then they wouldn't be able to keep making money. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Then the Ukrainians might win the war and the globalists don't want that. Then they wouldn't be able to keep making money. this isnt that type of thread. 
|
|
|
|
IRL
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 4:20:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Schmigs]
[#9]
 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 5:26:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: this isnt that type of thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Aikibiker: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Then the Ukrainians might win the war and the globalists don't want that. Then they wouldn't be able to keep making money. this isnt that type of thread. Why do you think biden has been holding back so much. How many Bradley's do we still have in active service? We could easily give the Ukrainians 2-300 out of storage. Same for F-16's and even F-15's I want to see the Ukrainians utterly destroy the russians and they could do it with a fraction of our old cast off equipment, but the people in charge are dribbling stuff to them in small batches that just give them enough ability to continue, but not win the war. It is like Vietnam all over again we let brave men suffer and die because they are not adequately supported. I hope it will change. Ukraine will eventually win at this rate, but it will take years at this rate. If we fully supported them it would be over in a year or less. The global elite love war because they can make a ton of money at it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 5:44:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#11]
He's not wrong. This could definitely be over faster if Ukraine got what they were asking for.
"Hello Belorussian border guards".  This is from the Ukrainian travel Instagram. Lol https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnEO429jPn0/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=  Attached File |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 6:04:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ike838: Further down the tweet it is confirmed that the pic is the French deploying to Romania. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ike838: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Surprise! Crews have been training for months.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlrQEkcX0As8iI7?format=png&name=small Further down the tweet it is confirmed that the pic is the French deploying to Romania. ”French AMX-10RC armoured vehicle exits Antonov aircraft. French military personnel and vehicles from the NATO Response Force (NRF), including VABs (véhicule de l’avant blindé) and AMX-10RCs arrive at Mihail Kogălniceanu international airport in Romania. The NRF has been activated for the first time in its history for defensive purposes in response to Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine, demonstrating NATO’s commitment to the protection of its Allies. The NRF is a highly ready and technologically advanced multinational force made up of land, air, maritime and Special Operations Forces (SOF) components that the Alliance can deploy quickly, wherever needed. It is currently led by the French.” Photo taken March 2, 2022, American Photo Archive / Alamo Stock Photo |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 6:13:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Why do you think biden has been holding back so much. How many Bradley's do we still have in active service? We could easily give the Ukrainians 2-300 out of storage. Same for F-16's and even F-15's I want to see the Ukrainians utterly destroy the russians and they could do it with a fraction of our old cast off equipment, but the people in charge are dribbling stuff to them in small batches that just give them enough ability to continue, but not win the war. It is like Vietnam all over again we let brave men suffer and die because they are not adequately supported. I hope it will change. Ukraine will eventually win at this rate, but it will take years at this rate. If we fully supported them it would be over in a year or less. The global elite love war because they can make a ton of money at it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Aikibiker: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Then the Ukrainians might win the war and the globalists don't want that. Then they wouldn't be able to keep making money. this isnt that type of thread. Why do you think biden has been holding back so much. How many Bradley's do we still have in active service? We could easily give the Ukrainians 2-300 out of storage. Same for F-16's and even F-15's I want to see the Ukrainians utterly destroy the russians and they could do it with a fraction of our old cast off equipment, but the people in charge are dribbling stuff to them in small batches that just give them enough ability to continue, but not win the war. It is like Vietnam all over again we let brave men suffer and die because they are not adequately supported. I hope it will change. Ukraine will eventually win at this rate, but it will take years at this rate. If we fully supported them it would be over in a year or less. The global elite love war because they can make a ton of money at it. I see what you are saying. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 7:09:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Special-K: Agreed on the M-60's - and the same with talk some months ago that Germany may give them Leopard 1's. Lots of M-60's out there still + spare parts. Maybe not so much for Leopards, but they can still be really useful for however long they can keep them running. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Special-K: Originally Posted By B5Sluggo: Originally Posted By Special-K: Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. Agreed on the M-60's - and the same with talk some months ago that Germany may give them Leopard 1's. Lots of M-60's out there still + spare parts. Maybe not so much for Leopards, but they can still be really useful for however long they can keep them running. |
|
|
|
OK, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 7:51:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: It would be worth it to get Reuters, WaPo, AFP or somebody into the listening posts to publicly verify that yes, Ukraine is capturing real cell calls. I don't know if that is happening, but it should. If Ukraine's process could be publicly vetted, it would help the PR war. Ukraine is doing great with the PR/info war, and should continue to improve in this area as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
That's just ugly Ukrainian propaganda, it's more evidence that Ukraine is a Nazi menace. (/sarcasm) I do have a healthy skepticism on these calls. I do believe plenty of the Russian troops would say these things, but it's obviously very easy to manufacture and impossible to verify. It would be worth it to get Reuters, WaPo, AFP or somebody into the listening posts to publicly verify that yes, Ukraine is capturing real cell calls. I don't know if that is happening, but it should. If Ukraine's process could be publicly vetted, it would help the PR war. Ukraine is doing great with the PR/info war, and should continue to improve in this area as well. If there was any place that "deserves" embedded reporters, this would be one. |
|
|
OK, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 8:03:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: The answer is "NO." Bradleys will not be a game changer. There is no infantry fighting vehicle that would be a game changer. The TOW cannot be fired on the move, the 25mm has some capability, armor is not sufficient against any tank. If UA tanks beat RU counterparts, Brads are superfluous value added. If RU defending tanks or ATGMs defeat UA tanks, the advance will stop. There isn't a scenario where the Bradley will be the difference between success and failure. The technical requirements for maintenance and repair will be a bear. If we are going to put the Ukrainians through that chaos, then give them what matters: A game changer would be M1 tanks. We have over 2000 in long term storage. A better infantry fighting vehicle with the same tank force isn't much of a difference. IFVs do not, and never have, functioned as a maneuver force independent of armor. This has been explained before. This whole thing is stupid. A battalion of state of the art IFVs will be gobbled up. I cant understand why we would send 50 armored vehicles for ground combat to the Ukrainians and send M2s and not M1s. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By GTLandser: Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire: This would be awesome if it happened. How feasible would it be for a stream of Bradleys to pull off a major flanking maneuver around and set up an eventual retaking of Mariupol, for example? Or what about a lightning push through Crimea, not unlike when Patton stormed through Sicily? Of course, it doesn't have to be those locations; any deep push toward retaking land in places where the Orcs are spread thin would be great. I understand them not wanting to overextend themselves in an offensive, but Ukrainians have proven that they have the guts and ambition to make a move like this, haven't they? The Bradley would be a huge step up from the M113 and most BMPs and BTRs, for sure, but the lawyer answer is "it depends". The answer is "NO." Bradleys will not be a game changer. There is no infantry fighting vehicle that would be a game changer. The TOW cannot be fired on the move, the 25mm has some capability, armor is not sufficient against any tank. If UA tanks beat RU counterparts, Brads are superfluous value added. If RU defending tanks or ATGMs defeat UA tanks, the advance will stop. There isn't a scenario where the Bradley will be the difference between success and failure. The technical requirements for maintenance and repair will be a bear. If we are going to put the Ukrainians through that chaos, then give them what matters: A game changer would be M1 tanks. We have over 2000 in long term storage. A better infantry fighting vehicle with the same tank force isn't much of a difference. IFVs do not, and never have, functioned as a maneuver force independent of armor. This has been explained before. This whole thing is stupid. A battalion of state of the art IFVs will be gobbled up. I cant understand why we would send 50 armored vehicles for ground combat to the Ukrainians and send M2s and not M1s. Themnegativewaves.gif Has Ukraine been able to retake territory in offensives without IFVs already? Yes. Therefore, logic suggests that IFVs can only *help* Ukraine retake additional territory. I definitely agree that we should be sending MBTs to Ukraine of course. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 8:27:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. Nice. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 8:45:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sq40]
[#18]
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/06/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-drone-missile-strike-putin-kyiv/
Russia 'breaks own ceasefire’ |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 8:48:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Like I said earlier. We need to send them a couple hundred at least. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Probably only sending those that we know they have trained crews and support for. I'm sure we will send more as they get the training pipeline and logistics support setup. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:20:52 AM EDT
[#20]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:22:35 AM EDT
[#21]
“Treacherous Ukrainians break unilateral ceasefire”
 https://iz.ru/1451124/2023-01-06/ukrainskie-boeviki-obstreliali-novuiu-kakhovku-vo-vremia-rozhdestvenskoi-sluzhby |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:32:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#22]
Russian position taken. Dead Russians.
https://t.me/supernova_plus/16327
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:33:37 AM EDT
[#23]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:37:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:39:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Themnegativewaves.gif Has Ukraine been able to retake territory in offensives without IFVs already? Yes. Therefore, logic suggests that IFVs can only *help* Ukraine retake additional territory. I definitely agree that we should be sending MBTs to Ukraine of course. There are tons of soviet era MBTs out there for the taking that haven't been utilized. Cyprus Egypt Israel (Rough shape) Poland (still has PT91s) We can have our own "Ringtausch" program going like the germans and send our own kit for soviet stuff to backfill Ukrainian formations. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:39:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: https://apnews.com/article/biden-united-states-government-olaf-scholz-germany-84fc07af2356d8d02adec2e987d06c0a Since Germany is apparently following the US lead with a Patriot battery, here’s a few thoughts/speculations: -This IMO continues to represent the slow ratcheting up of UA capabilities, and pressure on Russia -The timing could well be linked to the depletion of Russian missile stockpiles. Obviously Russia would love to kill a Patriot battery, but their now critically low missile stock means that they probably cannot send an overwhelming attack anymore. Thus Patriot should be able to clean up the now lower rate of missile attacks with much less threat to itself. -Total speculation on my part, but IMO a big unspoken reason for Patriot in Ukraine is to provide an anti-nuke defense. NATO and Ukraine obviously take the nuclear threat seriously, and the Allies likely perceive that Russia’s situation will become more dire in 2023, leading to a more significant nuclear threat. -The US will probably insist on Patriot being stationed where its range doesn’t significantly extend into Russia. Ukraine will probably not want to risk it close to the front where tactical weapons can reach it, even though this would give them much better AA coverage. Kiev is a no-brainer. But the second battery? Dnipro, perhaps. Zaporizhia is too close to the front and Kharkiv is too close to Russia. Dnipro lets them keep an eye on both the eastern front and the southern front, while protecting Zaporizhia as well. -A third battery would be ideal, with the first two being in Kiev and Dnipro, this one could be in Mikolaiv, protecting both Odessa and Kherson. This would let them keep an eye on Crimea and the Black Sea approach. I think your on the right track. I also think that Veccio and the others are right about the BUK systems using the Sea Sparrow. Depending on which version of Sea Sparrow Ukraine is getting, the earliest would use the X-band to guide to the target, like BUK uses, and if Ukraine gets the more modern evolved Sea Sparrow, it can probably be used and then the active seeker head of the missile will do the rest, like AMRAAM. Two Patriot batteries can cover a pretty large area, now you have more room to spread out the larger S-300's and smaller SAM systems outward from the Patriots to cover more ground for interception of targets. There is probably a lot of BUK systems in Ukraine, quite a few were donated from other NATO countries when this war began, and Ukraine had almost 100 of them at the start of the war, now give them higher quality ammo and your network for shooting down drones, cruise missiles and aircraft are amplified. This allows the two Patriot and the Patriot equivalent SAMP-T systems to focus on ballistic missile threats, plus the wider area of this air defense network that is more likely to soak up any cruise missiles heading to Kiev and other large cities. So Ukraine is getting 3 Patriot type SAM's with wide coverage. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:42:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. I think a Ukrainian offensive is coming. Last time you saw that many tanks and counterbattery kills was when there were advances toward Kherson. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:49:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile: MBTs without thermals are deathtraps on a modern battlefield. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile: Originally Posted By Special-K: Originally Posted By B5Sluggo: Originally Posted By Special-K: Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. Agreed on the M-60's - and the same with talk some months ago that Germany may give them Leopard 1's. Lots of M-60's out there still + spare parts. Maybe not so much for Leopards, but they can still be really useful for however long they can keep them running. Basically any armor whether it's MBT or IFV or otherwise if it doesn't have thermal in today's modern warfare it's useless |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:49:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwglen: Probably only sending those that we know they have trained crews and support for. I'm sure we will send more as they get the training pipeline and logistics support setup. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wwglen: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Probably only sending those that we know they have trained crews and support for. I'm sure we will send more as they get the training pipeline and logistics support setup. I think this is the way it's being handled, there's a lot of chatter from other NATO countries saying there's a new commitment being done for support of Ukraine. The hint is that as crews are trained, there will be more aid installments including additional IFV's from the various countries. If we send 50 trained Bradley crews every month to March we could have 150 vehicles sent on our end. I'll be curious to see if that is what they do. Other talk is that this opens to door for actual NATO tanks being supplied to Ukraine, and even longer range missile systems like ATACMS. I'm not writing anything off yet after seeing what they are getting now. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 9:53:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I think this is the way it's being handled, there's a lot of chatter from other NATO countries saying there's a new commitment being done for support of Ukraine. The hint is that as crews are trained, there will be more aid installments including additional IFV's from the various countries. If we send 50 trained Bradley crews every month to March we could have 150 vehicles sent on our end. I'll be curious to see if that is what they do. Other talk is that this opens to door for actual NATO tanks being supplied to Ukraine, and even longer range missile systems like ATACMS. I'm not writing anything off yet after seeing what they are getting now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By wwglen: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Probably only sending those that we know they have trained crews and support for. I'm sure we will send more as they get the training pipeline and logistics support setup. I think this is the way it's being handled, there's a lot of chatter from other NATO countries saying there's a new commitment being done for support of Ukraine. The hint is that as crews are trained, there will be more aid installments including additional IFV's from the various countries. If we send 50 trained Bradley crews every month to March we could have 150 vehicles sent on our end. I'll be curious to see if that is what they do. Other talk is that this opens to door for actual NATO tanks being supplied to Ukraine, and even longer range missile systems like ATACMS. I'm not writing anything off yet after seeing what they are getting now. Everyone seems to be loud and proud about preparing for a big spring offensive. But in the background, the strike patterns of Ukraine have picked up similar to previous counteroffensive preparations. I wonder if some of these announcements are meant to support a false narrative. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:03:08 AM EDT
[#31]
The most likely place in Russia where the operators of the Iranian "Shaheed" train has been identified. The training ground previously belonged to the Kolomensk Higher Artillery School, located approximately 8 km from the 294th State Center of Unmanned Aviation of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:03:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#32]
The plot thickens my friends.
   Article from 2012 with Raytheon upgrading Poland's BUK system with Evolved Sea Sparrow missiles. https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo_2012_show_daily_news_pictures_video_uk/raytheon_evolved_sea_sparrow_missile_essm_modernizes_polish_medium_range_air_defense_system.html pdf file with brochure of the SAM network using these missiles. https://wzu.pl/sites/default/files/Mobile_air_defense_missile_set_BIRDS.pdf |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:16:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I think a Ukrainian offensive is coming. Last time you saw that many tanks and counterbattery kills was when there were advances toward Kherson. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. I think a Ukrainian offensive is coming. Last time you saw that many tanks and counterbattery kills was when there were advances toward Kherson. I know that armor has remained relevant thus far, but I don't know how tanks are supposed to accomplish anything when they're under constant surveillance from drones and there's a 20-30km death zone before you even reach the front with smart cluster bombs raining down. They'd have to firewall the accelerator and try to outrun the drone/artillery response time for an hour just to have a chance to reach the front. And when smart loitering munitions reduce the response time to zero the pell-mell zerg rush won't work either. |
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:27:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I think a Ukrainian offensive is coming. Last time you saw that many tanks and counterbattery kills was when there were advances toward Kherson. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. I think a Ukrainian offensive is coming. Last time you saw that many tanks and counterbattery kills was when there were advances toward Kherson. I'm looking forward to more footage of Ukrainian IFV/AFVs lighting up Russian rear area artillery. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:28:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: They just got those French 155mm BONUS anti-tank smart cluster rounds into action a day or two ago, 35km range. If they received enough they greatly improved Ukrainian long range anti-tank firepower and probably caught a lot of Russian armor napping who thought they were more or less safely out of range. I know that armor has remained relevant thus far, but I don't know how tanks are supposed to accomplish anything when they're under constant surveillance from drones and there's a 20-30km death zone before you even reach the front with smart cluster bombs raining down. They'd have to firewall the accelerator and try to outrun the drone/artillery response time for an hour just to have a chance to reach the front. And when smart loitering munitions reduce the response time to zero the pell-mell zerg rush won't work either. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. I think a Ukrainian offensive is coming. Last time you saw that many tanks and counterbattery kills was when there were advances toward Kherson. I know that armor has remained relevant thus far, but I don't know how tanks are supposed to accomplish anything when they're under constant surveillance from drones and there's a 20-30km death zone before you even reach the front with smart cluster bombs raining down. They'd have to firewall the accelerator and try to outrun the drone/artillery response time for an hour just to have a chance to reach the front. And when smart loitering munitions reduce the response time to zero the pell-mell zerg rush won't work either. The BONUS and SmART rounds have been seen months ago, but this latest info may mean Ukraine has gotten much larger allotments of this kind of artillery. It's a game changer.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:33:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#36]
4 hrs ago.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:36:14 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: There are tons of soviet era MBTs out there for the taking that haven't been utilized. Cyprus Egypt Israel (Rough shape) Poland (still has PT91s) We can have our own "Ringtausch" program going like the germans and send our own kit for soviet stuff to backfill Ukrainian formations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Themnegativewaves.gif Has Ukraine been able to retake territory in offensives without IFVs already? Yes. Therefore, logic suggests that IFVs can only *help* Ukraine retake additional territory. I definitely agree that we should be sending MBTs to Ukraine of course. There are tons of soviet era MBTs out there for the taking that haven't been utilized. Cyprus Egypt Israel (Rough shape) Poland (still has PT91s) We can have our own "Ringtausch" program going like the germans and send our own kit for soviet stuff to backfill Ukrainian formations. Bulgaria Croatia Czech Republic Romania Slovakia South Korea |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:37:17 AM EDT
[#38]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:37:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 4 hrs ago.
If you wanted to set rope-a-dope conditions for irrational exuberance, a strategic withdrawal would be a great way to get Russians to flood the breach while you make a move somewhere else, maybe on the south side. Of course, with the amount of effort Russia has been tossing at it, accidental successes and even eventual success it’s entirely unlikely. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:37:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: They just got those French 155mm BONUS anti-tank smart cluster rounds into action a day or two ago, 35km range. If they received enough they greatly improved Ukrainian long range anti-tank firepower and probably caught a lot of Russian armor napping who thought they were more or less safely out of range. I know that armor has remained relevant thus far, but I don't know how tanks are supposed to accomplish anything when they're under constant surveillance from drones and there's a 20-30km death zone before you even reach the front with smart cluster bombs raining down. They'd have to firewall the accelerator and try to outrun the drone/artillery response time for an hour just to have a chance to reach the front. And when smart loitering munitions reduce the response time to zero the pell-mell zerg rush won't work either. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:42:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad: They just got those French 155mm BONUS anti-tank smart cluster rounds into action a day or two ago, 35km range. If they received enough they greatly improved Ukrainian long range anti-tank firepower and probably caught a lot of Russian armor napping who thought they were more or less safely out of range. I know that armor has remained relevant thus far, but I don't know how tanks are supposed to accomplish anything when they're under constant surveillance from drones and there's a 20-30km death zone before you even reach the front with smart cluster bombs raining down. They'd have to firewall the accelerator and try to outrun the drone/artillery response time for an hour just to have a chance to reach the front. And when smart loitering munitions reduce the response time to zero the pell-mell zerg rush won't work either. https://i.giphy.com/media/7mI0mLnprQCOs/giphy.webp 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:49:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flxips1XEAAUNOq?format=png&name=900x900 I wonder if the big spike in armoured vehicle kills is a sign the ground is freezing. Most likely hit a staging area where some were parked. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:54:54 AM EDT
[#43]
6 min ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:55:55 AM EDT
[#44]
|
|
|
|
OK, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 10:56:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockSix: No ammo for his rifle? Who hangs themselves when a painless way is right there, fake Propaganda Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockSix: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Damn.
That all sounds like typical basic training in Russia. Except the hanging. No ammo for his rifle? Who hangs themselves when a painless way is right there, fake Propaganda Maybe he was afraid he'd do it wrong and "just" get blinded or crippled or something. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 11:03:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: The plot thickens my friends. https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/poland/exhibition/mspo_2012/news/pictures/raytheon_essm_PELICAN_2k12_kub_modernized_MSPO_2012.jpg https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/poland/exhibition/mspo_2012/news/pictures/raytheon_essm_PELICAN_2k12_kub_modernized_MSPO_2012_2.jpg Article from 2012 with Raytheon upgrading Poland's BUK system with Evolved Sea Sparrow missiles. https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo_2012_show_daily_news_pictures_video_uk/raytheon_evolved_sea_sparrow_missile_essm_modernizes_polish_medium_range_air_defense_system.html pdf file with brochure of the SAM network using these missiles. https://wzu.pl/sites/default/files/Mobile_air_defense_missile_set_BIRDS.pdf So what this means is Poland trasferred their Sparrow BUKs to Ukraine in return for Ukraine’s BUKs to be overhauled and modified.
|
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 11:05:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: They just got those French 155mm BONUS anti-tank smart cluster rounds into action a day or two ago, 35km range. If they received enough they greatly improved Ukrainian long range anti-tank firepower and probably caught a lot of Russian armor napping who thought they were more or less safely out of range. I know that armor has remained relevant thus far, but I don't know how tanks are supposed to accomplish anything when they're under constant surveillance from drones and there's a 20-30km death zone before you even reach the front with smart cluster bombs raining down. They'd have to firewall the accelerator and try to outrun the drone/artillery response time for an hour just to have a chance to reach the front. And when smart loitering munitions reduce the response time to zero the pell-mell zerg rush won't work either. I am not an expert, I'm a casual observer. I know nothing about battle strategy, training & tactics. But it seems to me that this conflict will fundamentally change our TRADOC in a lot of ways. I have a hunch that a lot of smart people are already frantically conducting analyses and assessments, and will do much more as more details become available from AFU. How assets are deployed, positioned, and used is going to be changing a lot as a result of the changes we see from battlefield technology. The other interesting thing here is that, like the wealth, the difference between the haves and the have-nots is getting dramatically bigger. The difference between peer and near-peer conflicts and other conflicts is getting wider. How to mount an invasion of, say Venezuela, versus Japan will take vastly different battlefield tactics. And the proliferation of technology also is a game changer. Cheap, high-tech drones are being produced in places that aren't commonly thought of as top-rate industrial powers (see Iran, Turkey). They don't have to meet US concepts of "mil-spec" to be effective on the battlefield. I feel like we're watching fundamental changes coming into play, just as in the Crimean War and WWI. I wish Sylvan were in this thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 11:14:05 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Why do you think biden has been holding back so much. How many Bradley's do we still have in active service? We could easily give the Ukrainians 2-300 out of storage. Same for F-16's and even F-15's I want to see the Ukrainians utterly destroy the russians and they could do it with a fraction of our old cast off equipment, but the people in charge are dribbling stuff to them in small batches that just give them enough ability to continue, but not win the war. It is like Vietnam all over again we let brave men suffer and die because they are not adequately supported. I hope it will change. Ukraine will eventually win at this rate, but it will take years at this rate. If we fully supported them it would be over in a year or less. The global elite love war because they can make a ton of money at it. Because lots of people are afraid we are rushing towards WW3 as we increase our participation in this conflict. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 11:16:41 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 4 hrs ago.
Any reliable updates on this? Twitter is awash with mostly bad but conflicting news. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2023 11:19:38 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: So what this means is Poland trasferred their Sparrow BUKs to Ukraine in return for Ukraine’s BUKs to be overhauled and modified. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: The plot thickens my friends. https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/poland/exhibition/mspo_2012/news/pictures/raytheon_essm_PELICAN_2k12_kub_modernized_MSPO_2012.jpg https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/poland/exhibition/mspo_2012/news/pictures/raytheon_essm_PELICAN_2k12_kub_modernized_MSPO_2012_2.jpg Article from 2012 with Raytheon upgrading Poland's BUK system with Evolved Sea Sparrow missiles. https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo_2012_show_daily_news_pictures_video_uk/raytheon_evolved_sea_sparrow_missile_essm_modernizes_polish_medium_range_air_defense_system.html pdf file with brochure of the SAM network using these missiles. https://wzu.pl/sites/default/files/Mobile_air_defense_missile_set_BIRDS.pdf So what this means is Poland trasferred their Sparrow BUKs to Ukraine in return for Ukraine’s BUKs to be overhauled and modified. Probably, that's one scenario. Once we get to see some of these Ukrainian air defense BUK units, you'll know if they have the evolved sea sparrow because of the modular containers they made for them. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
