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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:42:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is interesting, most of the Leopard 2's are 2PL versions, with complete upgrades to the fleet to be completed this year. If Ukraine gets this version, nice!!  http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.htm http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.jpg It will be interesting to see if any mobile armored warfare breaks out since the ground is freezing. Most of the videos show them using tanks in an infantry support role. But that's just what I've seen posted here. IDK if they're capable of that or even want to.  |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:45:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: For those who didn't watch the video, the Ukranian soldiers in the trenches are reporting that there is lots of fighting especially with artillery but the situation is fine. He says to not pay attention to the russian bot-farms spreading lies about how russians are winning in Soledar. He says there are no encirclements or anything, the Ukranian military is doing fine. Though he says he doesn't know how the civilians are still living in this area but they are. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By general_cluster:
For those who didn't watch the video, the Ukranian soldiers in the trenches are reporting that there is lots of fighting especially with artillery but the situation is fine. He says to not pay attention to the russian bot-farms spreading lies about how russians are winning in Soledar. He says there are no encirclements or anything, the Ukranian military is doing fine. Though he says he doesn't know how the civilians are still living in this area but they are. and tomato juice. lots of tomato juice. Not sure if that is a euphemism. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:53:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#3]
20 min ago.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:53:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: No. The Democrat talking points surrounding the “Russian influence” on the election are/were that they had an effect. FACT: They did not. They had zero effect. They also claim that Hillery's e-mails, and Podestas I think, got hacked by the Russians. I believe a disgruntled DNC worker was the culprit. We all try to fuck with each other's elections. Look what "we" did in Israel. probably Brazil too most recently. It's only bad when it happens to a leftist gov't...If a right leaning gov't gets influenced out of office its a good thing according to the assholes. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:55:57 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:57:40 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to initiate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not. Absolutely! And Ukraine is actually fighting for freedom and liberty unlike some of the shady shit the USA has orchestrated in the past. Many idiots on the right are arguing that since the USA fucked up Libya, A-stan, Iraq, and dozens of other places, we should tell Ukraine to fuck off even though by every measure they are good people fighting the good fight. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:58:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Waldo: It will be interesting to see if any mobile armored warfare breaks out since the ground is freezing. Most of the videos show them using tanks in an infantry support role. But that's just what I've seen posted here. IDK if they're capable of that or even want to. If they’re gonna do it, they better get on it. It’s already mid January and last year the ground was thawed and muddy by the end of February |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:59:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Those guys looked confused. I'm curious what they were saying. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By mokerr: Incredibly brutal video that appears to be a Russian storming a Ukrainian trench and killing the soldiers after one doesn't give his weapon up I don't know if that's the actual story but appears that way Yea, that's hard to watch.  Those guys looked confused. I'm curious what they were saying. One reply in the Reddit thread... "The soldier in Ukrainian uniform was saying "Friendlies" [свои] before he got shot." |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:04:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 20 min ago.
Also, living like that requires many thousands of calories eaten daily. Russia is not known for their logistics. Wouldn't take long to kill an army by cutting off their food in these conditions. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:05:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mokerr: Incredibly brutal video that appears to be a Russian storming a Ukrainian trench and killing the soldiers after one doesn't give his weapon up I don't know if that's the actual story but appears that way Telegram link if reddit link doesn't work That was a rough way to start the morning. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:07:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Interestingly the failure of the Snow Revolution can be linked to the Russian Gov crack down on the Open Society foundation and other Soros philanthropic organizations followings its outbreak. Wasn't there a lot OSF/Soros connections to both the election of left-wing prosecutors which was instrumental in setting the conditions for the 2020 “summer of peace” here in the US? One could argue, the summer of 2020 was the United States’color revolution. The 20220 Summer Riots were the left's successful attempt to influence the 2020 elections. To make American's unhappy with life in Trumps MAGA America, to make us think that "everyone" was unhappy. Also to intimidate opposition and organize groups for the upcoming ballot harvesting Olympics. It also had the side effect of normalizing civil unrest and made a few thousand Trump supporters to think that it was a two-way street and getting rowdy could change things. It was a very impressive orchestration that would make the best GRU strategists blush with envy. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: Cluster munitions were literally invented to stop communist Zerg rushes. The human waves are going to stop real quick the first time a DPICM pops off Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire: GOOD. I predict smart Russians will start surrendering or deserting at an even higher rate, once they start seeing their conscript rush strategy yields nothing other than 100% dead. Cluster munitions were literally invented to stop communist Zerg rushes. The human waves are going to stop real quick the first time a DPICM pops off I actually thought they might already be in use. I saw this last week - Bahkmut. Look at the kill zone. Very dense and consistent. Sorry to be graphic, but it stood out to me.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:17:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to initiate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not. This deserves a Hell Yeah. Even if I'm a couple pages late. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:17:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Germany still has to approve it...  I wonder if Poland gives a shit at this point with Korea supplying Poland new tanks. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:18:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: One reply in the Reddit thread... "The soldier in Ukrainian uniform was saying "Friendlies" [ ] before he got shot." So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:18:13 PM EDT
[#16]
In this article, https://www.politico.eu/article/british-tanks-game-changing-ukraine-uk-no-10-says/
-UK says 300 tanks "not unreasonable." -UA minister makes makes fun of Germans for being German I know less than nothing about these things, but 300 western tanks sounds like something that could be useful. Too bad the brits only have something like 225 challenger IIs in total. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:23:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Chief of the General Staff, General of the Army Valery Gerasimov, was appointed commander of the joint group of troops in the NVO zone, the Defense Ministry reports. General Surovikin, who held this position, became his deputy, along with Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces Salyukov and Deputy Chief of the General Staff, Colonel-General Kim. The Ministry of Defense explains the increase in the level of leadership of the special operation by expanding the scale of the tasks being solved and the need to organize closer interaction between the types and branches of the troops.
https://t.me/breakingmash/41178  https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16779855 |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:25:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zam18th]
[#18]
Beat 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:26:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Those guys looked confused. I'm curious what they were saying. "We are friendlies". They just got naded and are wounded/concussed. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:28:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Yea, that's hard to watch. And hard to explain. Either keep fighting or surrender. Dont argue! Maybe the RU killer was wearing UA uniform or there was something to explain what happened. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:31:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to initiate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not.  Attached FileI am proud to call you my fellow American. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:32:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: The extreme 5% of the right and left are both very similar is base ideology - authoritarianism. On topic, that video about a dozen post up of the heavy machine guns engaging Wagner, then artillery finishing the position off was *chef's kiss* I have argued in other threads in the past that the "left .vs right" divide is no longer valid. It should be "statist .vs individualist" or "individual freedom-ist .vs authoritarian". |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:32:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th:
Beat As a reminder, this the guy that we didn't want killed for some reason. Discussed at length a few hundred pages back. https://www.insider.com/us-ukraine-russia-killing-senior-general-report-2022-12 |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:36:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? Or the gunman was wearing UA uniform and confused the guys in the trench. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:38:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Chief of the General Staff, General of the Army Valery Gerasimov, was appointed commander of the joint group of troops in the NVO zone, the Defense Ministry reports. General Surovikin, who held this position, became his deputy, along with Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces Salyukov and Deputy Chief of the General Staff, Colonel-General Kim. The Ministry of Defense explains the increase in the level of leadership of the special operation by expanding the scale of the tasks being solved and the need to organize closer interaction between the types and branches of the troops. https://t.me/breakingmash/41178 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/D90132F5-934A-4DFA-8CA5-11589C71BBC3-2668431.jpg https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16779855 Hopefully he will visit the front to check things out and call his wife... |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:38:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Originally Posted By klinc: One reply in the Reddit thread... "The soldier in Ukrainian uniform was saying "Friendlies" [ ] before he got shot." So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? That what I got out of it... Especially after the reports of Russians wearing Ukraine camo. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:39:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By darkd0r: +1 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By darkd0r: Originally Posted By Freiheit8472: Originally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to participate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not. Amen +1 +1 Well said. And FUCK Russia and its apologists and fan boys. It should be noted that almost none of the former Soviet slave states want anything to do with them. Maybe instead of murdering their former fellow citizens they should reflect on why? |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:40:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: As a reminder, this the guy that we didn't want killed for some reason. Discussed at length a few hundred pages back. https://www.insider.com/us-ukraine-russia-killing-senior-general-report-2022-12 Yes? I was told he was maybe a mole or "someone more competent" would just take charge. Maybe he will get HIMAR'ed this time. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:42:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Hopefully he will visit the front to check things out and call his wife... Or at least have a smoke at the ammo dump! |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:48:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: And hard to explain. Either keep fighting or surrender. Dont argue! Maybe the RU killer was wearing UA uniform or there was something to explain what happened. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Yea, that's hard to watch. And hard to explain. Either keep fighting or surrender. Dont argue! Maybe the RU killer was wearing UA uniform or there was something to explain what happened. I think the other guys taking cover by the trees were Russian as well. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:49:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is interesting, most of the Leopard 2's are 2PL versions, with complete upgrades to the fleet to be completed this year. If Ukraine gets this version, nice!! http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.htm http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is interesting, most of the Leopard 2's are 2PL versions, with complete upgrades to the fleet to be completed this year. If Ukraine gets this version, nice!! http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.htm http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.jpg In 2015 the Polish MoD selected Rheinmetall of Germany as a favorite bidder to upgrade the older Leopard 2A4 tanks. An upgraded version was developed by Rheinmetall in cooperation with a number of Polish companies. It is called the Leopard 2PL. The demonstrator was first publicly revealed in 2016. In 2018 a contract was signed to upgrade the 142 Polish Leopard 2A4 tanks to the Leopard 2PL standard. First upgraded tanks were delivered to the Polish Army in 2020. Deliveries are planned to be completed by 2023. They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:51:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Boom!
Thank God. May all the damn pussyfooting cease now. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:54:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. OK, so am I not wrong in thinking the 2A4 is sketchy? Because on paper, it doesn’t look that great compared to current Challengers, Abrams, or 2A6s. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:03:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: In this article, https://www.politico.eu/article/british-tanks-game-changing-ukraine-uk-no-10-says/ -UK says 300 tanks "not unreasonable." -UA minister makes makes fun of Germans for being German I know less than nothing about these things, but 300 western tanks sounds like something that could be useful. Too bad the brits only have something like 225 challenger IIs in total. They're going to need A LOT of armor to break through Russian positions in places like Zaporizhzhia, which are heavily fortified and actually manned (unlike Kharkiv back in September). A few dozen Bradleys and Leopard 2s isn't going to cut it, which is why I'm happy to see that western nations are seemingly committed to supplying the Ukrainians with a lot of IFVs and MBTs. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:05:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Thank God. May all the damn pussyfooting cease now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Boom!
Thank God. May all the damn pussyfooting cease now. Looks like its going to drag on for a little bit longer. Has Germany approved any of these transfers? https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/poland-send-leopard-tanks-ukraine-96365346 Honestly, i am somewhat losing track of who has "promised" or "indicated" what. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:24:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Those guys looked confused. I'm curious what they were saying. According to the comments they were yelling friendly friendly. Wonder if that was one of the scum wearing a UKR uniform. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:26:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#37]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:29:26 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:33:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmNHRJqX0AAAiCf?format=jpg&name=large Why does it always seem like it is the UK that says "Fuck it. We are going to do what we know is right and we don't care what anybody else is doing."? Lead, follow, or get out of the way. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:34:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to initiate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not. Great post that really gets to the root of the matter. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:34:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fervid_dryfire]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to initiate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not. Double tap. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:35:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#42]
2nd hit was bad, looks like 2 crew members got out.
More context, same vehicle hit with 2 drones.
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:36:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: OK, so am I not wrong in thinking the 2A4 is sketchy? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. OK, so am I not wrong in thinking the 2A4 is sketchy? The Polish are never doing anything without ulterior motives. They are hating Germany and would do anything that harms Germany and the Germans. The PIS(S) party needs Germany as scapegoat for their own failures. They want to get rid of the Leopards because they are from Germany. They want to sell K2s after having built enough for their own needs. Germany never should have given them these Leopards, they were basically a gift from Germany, only 180 million Euros for the first 120 with training, ammo and spare parts. Because on paper, it doesn’t look that great compared to current Challengers, Abrams, or 2A6s. Like I said before, the A4 is from 1985. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:38:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: According to the comments they were yelling friendly friendly. Wonder if that was one of the scum wearing a UKR uniform. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By Dracster: Those guys looked confused. I'm curious what they were saying. According to the comments they were yelling friendly friendly. Wonder if that was one of the scum wearing a UKR uniform. Yep. Reports are Russians wearing UKR colors Execute all you can if captured. Hung, not shot. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:39:47 PM EDT
[#45]
The propaganda war is alive and well.
Old habits die hard, and I sauntered over to rantingly.com to waste some lunch time. Center column headline: "Inside the 120+ mile salt mine tunnels just captured by russia's wagner group." The link is to zerohedge naturally. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:41:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is interesting, most of the Leopard 2's are 2PL versions, with complete upgrades to the fleet to be completed this year. If Ukraine gets this version, nice!! http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.htm http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.jpg In 2015 the Polish MoD selected Rheinmetall of Germany as a favorite bidder to upgrade the older Leopard 2A4 tanks. An upgraded version was developed by Rheinmetall in cooperation with a number of Polish companies. It is called the Leopard 2PL. The demonstrator was first publicly revealed in 2016. In 2018 a contract was signed to upgrade the 142 Polish Leopard 2A4 tanks to the Leopard 2PL standard. First upgraded tanks were delivered to the Polish Army in 2020. Deliveries are planned to be completed by 2023. They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. That is an interesting angle. I'm hoping all the training for these Western tanks are for gunnery out to at least 1 to 2 km or more from the enemy. I would not want to see these tanks being used at 500m like we have seen when both sides are using Russian armor.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:41:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Originally Posted By klinc: One reply in the Reddit thread... "The soldier in Ukrainian uniform was saying "Friendlies" [ ] before he got shot." So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:45:16 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:52:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: The Polish are never doing anything without ulterior motives. They are hating Germany and would do anything that harms Germany and the Germans. The PIS(S) party needs Germany as scapegoat for their own failures. They want to get rid of the Leopards because they are from Germany. They want to sell K2s after having built enough for their own needs. Germany never should have given them these Leopards, they were basically a gift from Germany, only 180 million Euros for the first 120 with training, ammo and spare parts. Like I said before, the A4 is from 1985. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. OK, so am I not wrong in thinking the 2A4 is sketchy? The Polish are never doing anything without ulterior motives. They are hating Germany and would do anything that harms Germany and the Germans. The PIS(S) party needs Germany as scapegoat for their own failures. They want to get rid of the Leopards because they are from Germany. They want to sell K2s after having built enough for their own needs. Germany never should have given them these Leopards, they were basically a gift from Germany, only 180 million Euros for the first 120 with training, ammo and spare parts. Because on paper, it doesn’t look that great compared to current Challengers, Abrams, or 2A6s. Like I said before, the A4 is from 1985. So, where in the US are you from? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:57:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zam18th]
[#50]
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/01/sudden-surge-in-russian-navy-ships-and-submarines-in-black-sea/ ... One explanation might be that the mass exit may be a drill to test the crews’ readiness. Or possibly a precaution against an incoming threat. ... The remaining explanation is that the Russian Navy assets are involved in an operation. The last time we reported an unusual spike in Russian Navy activity it preceded extensive missile strikes on Ukraine. |
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