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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:10:08 PM EST
[#1]
1 min ago.
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:14:26 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Here’s an actual video of Wagner guys, one conspicuously in full Ukr gear, giving an interview. This vid clip is edited down to focus on him:
I *heard* they were using it tactically - to confuse Ukraine defenders. OTOH, they could be so desperate they are using captured stores. But they aren’t mixing the gear it appears but rather consciously kitting out a few in full Ukr gear. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: They lose any Geneva Convention protections doing that. Summary executions for any they capture. Here’s an actual video of Wagner guys, one conspicuously in full Ukr gear, giving an interview. This vid clip is edited down to focus on him:
I *heard* they were using it tactically - to confuse Ukraine defenders. OTOH, they could be so desperate they are using captured stores. But they aren’t mixing the gear it appears but rather consciously kitting out a few in full Ukr gear. Regarding the legal status of “Wagner:” - it does not exist. At least, under exceedingly clear Russian law, any “private military corporation” (PMC) is strictly forbidden. But we all know the reality. Wagner is a convenient way for Putin to project force while denying any “Russian soldiers” were harmed or killed. And since Wagner cannot legally exist, Putin can just claim when asked “ what Wagner? Who? I don’t know anything about that.” I also believe Putin WANTS many of the Wagnerites dead, ever since they started recruiting from prisons. In his view, convicts are the useless dregs of Russian society and he sees Russia as better off without them above ground. When Putin loses in Ukraine, he is in for a drastic reality: - Russia’s demographic collapse within a few generations. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:17:09 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mokerr: Incredibly brutal video that appears to be a Russian storming a Ukrainian trench and killing the soldiers after one doesn't give his weapon up I don't know if that's the actual story but appears that way Telegram link if reddit link doesn't work That was wild, especially with the audio in the background of just relentless gunfire. He did offer surrender repeatedly, and that moran fucked it up. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:19:10 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: These before and after pictures are heartbreaking to see, and really drive home the scope of the destruction. I hope gentlemanfarmer's wife's charity will continue to work during the rebuilding so we can help then too. Unfortunately, there's going to be a lot of UA orphans from this and I hope we can help there as well. I don't know how much we can do, the scope of rebuilding will be huge, but every drop helps fill the bucket as they say. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By Chokey:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOHxv4akAAlXDG?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOHxv4akAEAof6?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOIv3EaAAAiOmd?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOIv3lakAEbT2j?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOJIIAaUAADkif?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 That really is sad to see. Many here don't have much, but they do usually own their apartments and homes. It is literally all some have. That's why a lot of people don't leave unless they absolutely have to.  These before and after pictures are heartbreaking to see, and really drive home the scope of the destruction. I hope gentlemanfarmer's wife's charity will continue to work during the rebuilding so we can help then too. Unfortunately, there's going to be a lot of UA orphans from this and I hope we can help there as well. I don't know how much we can do, the scope of rebuilding will be huge, but every drop helps fill the bucket as they say. Rebuilding will take a while but will look nice |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:22:48 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Until their entrances are collapsed and they get trapped… 1- mines are the absolute last place I’d like to engage in combat operations. 2- I bet the ones in the US are way safer, but the idea of firing a rifle in one is almost as insane as having combat operations next to a Nuclear Power plant. 3- those pictures posted earlier of them look like some wild edition of Call or Duty. Grew up close enough to one that we could feel the blasts underground when they were opening new shaft. You couldn’t pay me enough to do explosives a mile underground. Nope. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:27:10 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: I guess Russians have put bounties on Brads? Lol, we(USA) live rent free in their heads. At the same time, I guarantee they're saying American equipment is junk compared to Rooshia Stronk AFVs. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up_zps5c0357b9_GIF-103.gif The other immense paranoia living rent-free in the heads of what passes for Russia’s intelligentsia is this:  The UN War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague  If any of you troll Russian forums, post images of the War Crimes Tribunal, interspersed with these:    Smile for the camera and wait for flash, Ivan!  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:29:12 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mickdog13: 1- mines are the absolute last place I’d like to engage in combat operations. 2- I bet the ones in the US are way safer, but the idea of firing a rifle in one is almost as insane as having combat operations next to a Nuclear Power plant. 3- those pictures posted earlier of them look like some wild edition of Call or Duty. Grew up close enough to one that we could feel the blasts underground when they were opening new shaft. You couldn’t pay me enough to do explosives a mile underground. Nope. Pump in a bunch of propane / lng. Light a match. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:31:22 PM EST
[#8]
4 min ago.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:33:48 PM EST
[#9]
Expensive drone loss.
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MA, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:36:44 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: That was wild, especially with the audio in the background of just relentless gunfire. He did offer surrender repeatedly, and that moran fucked it up. It sounded like one of the Ukrainians kept saying “friendlies, friendlies” I wonder if the Russian was wearing Ukrainian uniform and kit? We’ve seen them do it before, and those Ukrainians seemed to think he was one of them Although that grenade definitely rang their bells pretty bad, and maybe they were just disoriented/dazed/concussed Either way that shit is brutal |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:36:53 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mickdog13: 1- mines are the absolute last place I’d like to engage in combat operations. 2- I bet the ones in the US are way safer, but the idea of firing a rifle in one is almost as insane as having combat operations next to a Nuclear Power plant. 3- those pictures posted earlier of them look like some wild edition of Call or Duty. Grew up close enough to one that we could feel the blasts underground when they were opening new shaft. You couldn’t pay me enough to do explosives a mile underground. Nope. For a country that pioneered thermobaric munitions, you'd think they'd think twice about packing people into enclosed underground caverns. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:43:01 PM EST
[#12]
I’m not sure if this was discussed before - apparently 34% of the revenue for the Russian 2023 budget comes form the gas and oil exports, and they assumed that the oil will be around $70.
The thing is that their Urals oil has been selling for $50 for the last month, and hopefully will go even further down. The production cost of a barrel of Urals is supposed to be around $40, so they are hardly making any money now. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:43:30 PM EST
[#13]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:00:06 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: It depends on where you tie the rope. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Originally Posted By jhereg: Originally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By kncook: Yep. Reports are Russians wearing UKR colors Execute all you can if captured. Hung, not shot. Hanged. Men are hanged. Pictures and horses are hung. Sorry pet peeve People can be hung too...  I was thinking more on the line of a conversation in high school w/ a female friend. I'd said something that kind of annoyed her and she her comment was "You should be hung!" I laughed and told her "Oh, I am." |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:03:08 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fltot: I’m not sure if this was discussed before - apparently 34% of the revenue for the Russian 2023 budget comes form the gas and oil exports, and they assumed that the oil will be around $70. The thing is that their Urals oil has been selling for $50 for the last month, and hopefully will go even further down. The production cost of a barrel of Urals is supposed to be around $40, so they are hardly making any money now. Bloomberg reported yesterday it’s trading at $38. Beyond the cap, transport restrictions (no insurance on ships, etc.) are creating an even deeper discount to the cap.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:32:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: BustinCaps]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Bloomberg reported yesterday it’s trading at $38. Beyond the cap, transport restrictions (no insurance on ships, etc.) are creating an even deeper discount to the cap. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/D7388432-78B8-4194-987C-11F170F5483F_jpe-2668810.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By Fltot: I’m not sure if this was discussed before - apparently 34% of the revenue for the Russian 2023 budget comes form the gas and oil exports, and they assumed that the oil will be around $70. The thing is that their Urals oil has been selling for $50 for the last month, and hopefully will go even further down. The production cost of a barrel of Urals is supposed to be around $40, so they are hardly making any money now. Bloomberg reported yesterday it’s trading at $38. Beyond the cap, transport restrictions (no insurance on ships, etc.) are creating an even deeper discount to the cap. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/D7388432-78B8-4194-987C-11F170F5483F_jpe-2668810.JPG I wonder if cost per barrel is increasing without access to western firms and equipment. I suppose it’s also possible costs are decreasing due to the same, but that would be temporary as production goes to shit. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:40:13 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Bloomberg reported yesterday it’s trading at $38. Beyond the cap, transport restrictions (no insurance on ships, etc.) are creating an even deeper discount to the cap. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/D7388432-78B8-4194-987C-11F170F5483F_jpe-2668810.JPG Not to mention near zero infrastructure to ship it overland to China or India. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:40:34 PM EST
[#18]
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WY, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:41:03 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: The other immense paranoia living rent-free in the heads of what passes for Russia’s intelligentsia is this: https://i.lb.ua/english/100/26/572316ec58ccd.jpeg The UN War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague If any of you troll Russian forums, post images of the War Crimes Tribunal, interspersed with these: https://armyrecognition.com/images/stories/news/2023/january/New_US_military_aid_to_Ukraine_includes_343_combat_vehicles_and_54_artillery_systems_925_003.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/ee/e0/23eee092455b1066dd69b4cedce83196.jpg https://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2014/06/05/363984/cf53d5260f07fbcefd6da93a657a0bd4.jpg Smile for the camera and wait for flash, Ivan! First pic has what looked like a coil of wire, but not very much. Recent discussion here is that no one was using wire. Are my eyes deceiving me? |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:42:43 PM EST
[#20]
I wonder if russians/wagner recently came into a bunch of fresh meat for the meat grinder. Obviously the plan is to feed people in, then more people, then more people until the Ukrainians run out of bullets or rest. It does look like the russians are doing this in an attempt to get control of routs for resupply for the Ukrainians and themselves.
Apparently the russians have an almost unlimited supply of fresh bodies to throw at the Ukrainian guns. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:53:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: I guess we can officially call this the “Russian Orthodox Christmas Offensive”… kicked off during a self proclaimed Russian ceasefire. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmMkVPeWYAI2JFP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 I guess we can officially call this the “Russian Orthodox Christmas Offensive”… kicked off during a self proclaimed Russian ceasefire. The Russians later killing their guys in Ukrainian uniforms solves some problems and makes propaganda for them. They kill the guys breaking the law (like the guys who committed some of the Bucha atrocities or the Russian pilots in Korea whose wingmen were supposed to put them down if they went down) AND get video of them killing inept looking Ukrainians. A Russian putting on a Ukr uniform is the last suit they’ll ever wear. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:55:12 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By darkd0r: First pic has what looked like a coil of wire, but not very much. Recent discussion here is that no one was using wire. Are my eyes deceiving me? I've also noticed a lack of wire. It seems like it would be really useful to funnel russians into the right places and not have to guard every linear foot of the battlefield with people and guns. I don't get it. Maybe it is not a normal tactic in that region of the world. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:58:14 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: My sitrep from guys is that Bahkmut is fine. Soledar is under pressure but Russian gains are exaggerated. Not in the mines. They are using Ukrainian uniforms to push up. Often the follow on forces kill everyone moving. God bless them. It’s great with cellphones they can know so many support them when they go to bed each night. That’s one positive difference from the past. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:07:16 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 4 min ago.
Here's the you tube vid.  ?? Ukrainain Special Forces Infiltrate And Capture Russian Trench At Night In Bakmuth |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:07:48 PM EST
[#25]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:12:27 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhereg: I was thinking more on the line of a conversation in high school w/ a female friend. I'd said something that kind of annoyed her and she her comment was "You should be hung!" I laughed and told her "Oh, I am." Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhereg: Originally Posted By _disconnector_: Originally Posted By jhereg: Originally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By kncook: Yep. Reports are Russians wearing UKR colors Execute all you can if captured. Hung, not shot. Hanged. Men are hanged. Pictures and horses are hung. Sorry pet peeve People can be hung too... I was thinking more on the line of a conversation in high school w/ a female friend. I'd said something that kind of annoyed her and she her comment was "You should be hung!" I laughed and told her "Oh, I am." Ever hear of the plastic surgeon that hung himself? |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:21:50 PM EST
[#27]
Does anyone have information on the Kerch bridge? Is it still closed to rail traffic?
Heard that it was still closed to train traffic, limiting resupply and forcing RU to use trucks. Would like to see the Russians in Crimea forced to resort to cannibalism. AoD |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:23:19 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
I wonder what the hell this guy is doing out there all by his lonesome without a weapon or gear? Poor bastard was probably hoping the drone was armed and going to drop on him, to put him out of his misery. Thank God I was lucky enough to be born somewhere besides Russia. While we may have our share of problems here, at least we don't throw away the lives of our citizens like piss in the wind. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:23:31 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freiheit8472: God bless them. It’s great with cellphones they can know so many support them when they go to bed each night. That’s one positive difference from the past. 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:30:05 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I've also noticed a lack of wire. It seems like it would be really useful to funnel russians into the right places and not have to guard every linear foot of the battlefield with people and guns. I don't get it. Maybe it is not a normal tactic in that region of the world. You want your obstacles (wire, trenches, abbatis, caltrops, mines) covered by fire. Wire without fire is just an obstacle to be breached at your convenience. Wire with fire - well, that's another animal. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:41:58 PM EST
[#31]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:43:03 PM EST
[#32]
Never mind Britain: Germany looks for US to lead the way on battle tanks to Ukraine
Chancellor Scholz says deliveries of heavy weapons depend on coordination ‘with our transatlantic partner.’ https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-germany-us-battle-tanks-ukraine-war/ BERLIN/LONDON/WASHINGTON — Britain’s moves toward supplying Ukraine with battle tanks are a headache for Olaf Scholz — but it’s still unlikely that the German chancellor will overcome his reluctance to sending heavy German armor without taking his lead from Washington. Scholz’s spokesperson said Wednesday that plans by London to deliver British-made Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine won’t change the position of the German government, which has so far rejected growing calls for Berlin to hand powerful German Leopard 2 tanks to Kyiv. Warsaw has proposed that the German-made Leopards could be delivered via a broader alliance of European countries. “A company of Leopard tanks for Ukraine will be transferred as part of international coalition building. Such a decision is already [taken] in Poland,” Polish President Andrzej Duda said in a tweet. The big obstacle to these transfers is that Berlin needs to give the green light for re-export of German-made weapons. Speaking on the condition of anonymity, two German officials said that Scholz’s position depended heavily on U.S. President Joe Biden, with whom the chancellor already closely coordinated when issuing a joint statement last week announcing the joint delivery of German and American infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine. At a regional election rally in Berlin on Monday, Scholz emphasized the importance of discussing arms with the U.S. president, saying that tank deliveries to Ukraine must be discussed “together with friends and allies and especially with our transatlantic partner, with the United States of America.” The U.S. itself does not look set to send battle tanks in the immediate future. Talks between the U.S. and Ukrainians are continuing over providing American-made Abrams tanks, but there has been little progress as the Biden administration thinks a European-led solution is best. The Defense Department has been hesitant to provide the Abrams to Ukraine due to significant maintenance and sustainment challenges. A tank division can guzzle up to 600,000 gallons of fuel a day, and few of the tanks’ technologies are approved for export. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:04:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: Bartholomew_Roberts]
[#33]
The Poles want a piece of Russia so bad. We'd probably be best off fulfilling all their weapons orders and kicking them out of NATO.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:11:47 PM EST
[#34]
So this has arrived from Chernihiv. Its part of a tank.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:18:34 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: So this has arrived from Chernihiv. Its part of a tank. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/20230110_183524-2667881.jpg Did you win it in an auction? Neat regardless. 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:24:05 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Did you win it in an auction? Neat regardless. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:25:37 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Russians did. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Any other clarity on what this was? Who posted it? UKR or Russia? ..Confusing. Russians did. That's got to scare the Russian's. Logistics unlike any other. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:28:11 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: I think a lot of us are missing the point. I **WANT** America to initiate, fund, and even direct revolutions that lead to freedom. Not South American tin-pot dictators mind you - but revolutions that lead to democracies that are willing to fight for their existence and freedoms. Revolutions like Maidan in Ukraine. If we participated there I'd PROUDLY wave that flag. I'd fucking run that on the front page of the Times in bold print with pride. When did we get so amazingly pussified that we can't even admit that we help other people fight for freedom? What has happened to Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Who are we if we aren't willing to fight to help others achieve the freedoms that we enjoy? When did conservatives become the party of "fuck everyone but ourselves"? When did the world turn upside down and the goddamn commie LIBERALS become the party that is about exporting our greatest commodity? That commodity, my friends, is FREEDOM. Fuck Russia, fuck their entire kleptocratic, totalitarian, one-man-rule system. People that mention Russian corruption and America in the same sentence have absolutely fallen for the propaganda that they have been pumping into our society since 1917. America *at its worst* is still better than Putin's system on its best day. We have assholes here - but at least we can (eventually) vote them out. It may take time and effort but our democracy still works. It's feeble but it's still better than anything that came out of the last 500 years in Russia. They have caused more misery, pain, and heartache for the world than any other nation. Period. Anyone who wants to argue this should talk to a Pole or a Ukrainian. I repeat - I want my tax dollars sent to kick out assholes like Viktor Yanukovych. Because fuck that guy, the system that he represents, and his masters in the Kremlin. Don't fall for the propaganda. We have been and are still are part of a system that represents human freedom and dignity. The Russian are not.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:29:29 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: No it was a gift Part of a fender?? |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:29:30 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: No it was a gift Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Did you win it in an auction? Neat regardless. That's awesome. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:30:15 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: That really is sad to see. Many here don't have much, but they do usually own their apartments and homes. It is literally all some have. That's why a lot of people don't leave unless they absolutely have to. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By Chokey:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOHxv4akAAlXDG?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOHxv4akAEAof6?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOIv3EaAAAiOmd?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOIv3lakAEbT2j?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOJIIAaUAADkif?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 That really is sad to see. Many here don't have much, but they do usually own their apartments and homes. It is literally all some have. That's why a lot of people don't leave unless they absolutely have to. You can't get people to leave the gulf coast when a category 4 or 5 hurricane is directly impacting. It's human nature to stay where your roots are, the older the harder it is. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:37:38 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: Originally Posted By klinc: One reply in the Reddit thread... "The soldier in Ukrainian uniform was saying "Friendlies" [ ] before he got shot." So two Russians pretending to be Ukrainian in order to ambush actual Ukrainian soldiers get smoked by an amped up Russian without the patience to sort it out?? They certainly seemed perplexed and surprised, right before they were killed. Makes sense. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:38:34 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: No it was a gift Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Did you win it in an auction? Neat regardless. Awesome. You’ve helped with the fight, this will help you remember all the Russian armor on your hands-you monster!!! 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:49:18 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: They certainly seemed perplexed and surprised, right before they were killed. Makes sense. They got grenaded less than a minute before. That'll confuse you, whatever side you're on. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:56:05 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: They certainly seemed perplexed and surprised, right before they were killed. Makes sense. Did the guy say “friendlies” in Ukrainian or Russian? It looked to me like two Ukrainians got smoked by a Russian who was probably wearing Ukrainian uniform. Not going to watch it again, but it did look like other Russians to the right and forward. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:57:27 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: Part of a fender?? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:00:13 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is interesting, most of the Leopard 2's are 2PL versions, with complete upgrades to the fleet to be completed this year. If Ukraine gets this version, nice!! http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.htm http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2pl.jpg In 2015 the Polish MoD selected Rheinmetall of Germany as a favorite bidder to upgrade the older Leopard 2A4 tanks. An upgraded version was developed by Rheinmetall in cooperation with a number of Polish companies. It is called the Leopard 2PL. The demonstrator was first publicly revealed in 2016. In 2018 a contract was signed to upgrade the 142 Polish Leopard 2A4 tanks to the Leopard 2PL standard. First upgraded tanks were delivered to the Polish Army in 2020. Deliveries are planned to be completed by 2023. They will send old A4s, these tanks will be destroyed in a couple of days. Just to hurt the German industry and to destroy the reputation of the Leopard 2 so they can sell the domestic build K2s to other countries. I doubt it. They still have donated T-72s that are running. I am not seeing the Leopard 2s as being worse. They're be better overall. Even the 2A4. Better crew survival rates, probably better fire control systems than most of the T-72s Ukraine/Russia has. Of course the upgraded ones may have better sensors, but both sides are using plenty of older T-64s, T-72s and T-80s. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:25:32 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By muzzleloader: Did the guy say “friendlies” in Ukrainian or Russian? It looked to me like two Ukrainians got smoked by a Russian who was probably wearing Ukrainian uniform. Not going to watch it again, but it did look like other Russians to the right and forward. They said "Свой" which is Russian. The Ukrainian word for that doesn't sound at all similar; however lots of Ukrainians are more familiar with Russian than Ukrainian. I've got a buddy who married a Ukrainian girl back in 1992. She only speaks Russian, because ethnically, she is. She just started learning Ukrainian. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:29:26 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: In this article, https://www.politico.eu/article/british-tanks-game-changing-ukraine-uk-no-10-says/ -UK says 300 tanks "not unreasonable." -UA minister makes makes fun of Germans for being German I know less than nothing about these things, but 300 western tanks sounds like something that could be useful. Too bad the brits only have something like 225 challenger IIs in total. I have no interest in further disagreeing with my friend and fellow Arfcomer, CharlieR, any further (and thanks again for your service to our great nation Charlie!  ).But one of his points was, ideally, an MBT must lead an attack. Now it’s a moot point.  But one issue we never worked out: how many functioning T-72 and T-62s is Ukr holding back for the next big offensive and 2) do they have enough trained tankers to crew and maintain the existing T- MBTs they have now? My best guess is: - they have plenty of “adequate” daytime T72 and T62s with crews, but they hold them in reserve while planning major offensives, and - their expected losses with these old Russian tanks will be high without air superiority, plus they are gas-hogs with limited range, and - their targeting systems are identical to what the Russians have, so the tanks will be in range of each other at the same time. The western MBTs are expected to outperform and outclass the Russian tanks to a huge degree. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:35:58 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I wonder if russians/wagner recently came into a bunch of fresh meat for the meat grinder. Obviously the plan is to feed people in, then more people, then more people until the Ukrainians run out of bullets or rest. It does look like the russians are doing this in an attempt to get control of routs for resupply for the Ukrainians and themselves. Apparently the russians have an almost unlimited supply of fresh bodies to throw at the Ukrainian guns. That's how Russia fights historically. They get their ass kicked, then feed people into the guns until their enemy runs out of ammo. Not sure how well it will work for them this time. |
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